2019/12/23 - The Witness Badger

Nathan Kerbonaut · Post by **Nathan Kerbonaut** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:56 am

Ooh boy I just woke up and this thread is already on page 2
"Dozens and hundreds"? I hope Steward's speaking theoretically. Otherwise this comic just got a biiig new problem

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:07 am

fenrirblack wrote:Why can't he just be guilty and be done with it? Steward still being the red-herring makes everything ten times more complicated. I mean I admit that there really is no real confirmation that he changed anyone because Steward has yet to actually admit to anything. Like others have pointed out that his dialogue can be interrupted two ways. But Why? Why hide the coin but still try to get animals to join the ECP? If he never had anything personal against the ECP then why team up with Thomas to get to the gold? Steward still cut the finances to the ECP in order to hinder it in an attempt to get Keene to open the temple. Even if he still had nothing personal against the ECP he clearly states that he didn't want anymore animals to join because it would dry up the Milton finances so again I ask why send more his way? Even my earlier suggestion about Steward being a hero doesn't make sense because if he knew or suspected that Keene was somehow turning people into animals then that would mean Keene had alternate means of doing it therefore had no need for the coin and Steward hiding it was moot.

Of course there is still the fact that Steward has had no reasonable means of transforming Marion, Lois without some ridiculous plan involving birds or an Invisibility cloak. If Steward was trying to hide the coin then why go through all this trouble just to out him as the one with a the coin but not using it. Again we went through a lot of trouble to bring Steward and the coin into the plot. All to say "I was trying to prevent Keene from using it even thought he never had any intent to use it." All this just for an elaborate misunderstanding and to find out that he wasn't the one behind this. Then Marion is like "You didn't do it, and you didn't do it. Then who did? Because someone still did this to us deliberately. And if they didn't use the coin then how?"

Then there is something Erik pointed out. The Thirty-or-so animals living with Jess. We know of at least 11. That would mean that basically a bunch of new ferals moved in for no reason. But if they were therianthropes then at least Jess saying that and Rick upping the number so substantially would have a very important place in the story. If they are still therianthropes but not changed because of Steward then what was up with his comment about him answering every solicitor.

Yeah, I"m pretty sure Steward is guilty. My earlier point was basically because language is often ambiguous. His reveal happens in a complex sentence and I misplaced the subject that "there's always more" was referring to, because "money" is only implied in the sentence. It also doesn't help that he probably is implying that he at least thinks Keene is going to keep using the coin.

As to the extra animals we've never seen, we know Steward's been trying to push animals towards the ECP. It's possible that he was trying with genuine ferals that Jess took in because she's a lot kinder than she acts, got fed up with them refusing (because Jess gave them a nice home and what more do they need?) and decided to use the coin instead, knowing that a human turned into an animal would want his rights back.

dr_eirik · Post by **dr_eirik** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:53 am

On the theft of the gold, there isn't really a larger picture there. Thomas roped Steward into helping with a theft. They didnt know it was cursed. And even if they did, they didnt know the form the curse took. Keene didnt even know. This didnt start as an elaborate plan to save the ECP or destroy it or keep Keene from transforming innocents. This was a simple theft. Steward was going to get a cut, and then disappear. He was already packing before Thomas the Camel showed up. Thomas even told Sophia he was going to keep some of Stewars cut because he didnt know what was in the temple.

If you take what we saw in Temple Crashers at face value, then Thomas manage to get out with one coin. It ends up in the badgers paws and then he sits and stews on it for months or years. Has Steward been transforming people who are now scared and hiding in the woods or with Jessica? You'd think the desk Sargent would have had a stronger reaction to Lois showing up to report a missing person.

It seems like Stewards plan is just basic: I'm going to find a way to use this coin to transform as many humans as I can and point them at the ECP. He has already been trying to do this because he's been, uh, badgering the others at the treehouse to join the ECP to the point he was getting on Jessica's nerves.

I dont think any part of this is elaborate. Its Steward seeking revenge by giving Keene everything he wanted. The question remains, did he put something into motion already? Or is justly plannting a seed in the ferrets brain?

Post by **SeanWolf** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:17 am

I was giving this Steward theory a bit more thought and, with today's strip, I THINK I have a decent idea as to where this plot may end up going in terms of the villain:

OK, at the beginning of this whole fiasco, Marion was the first to transform. Now, everything has to have a point of origin, so this is where the meeting of the woodland critters comes into the picture. Steward showed a fascination with him when he first arrived and said ominously "You can't always get what you want" while flipping a familiar gold coin. This leads to how Marion was turned into a squirrel in the first place cause, remember, the coin only transformed both Thomas and Steward after they came in physical contact with it. Marion, from what we know, never did and, as far as we know, Steward was always in the tree house holding onto the coin (recall the last time we saw him before this series of arcs, he was looking at his reflection in the coin). So, how did Marion transform? Remember, everything needs a point of origin and, in this case, the origin point was the coin but, as far as we know, Steward never left the tree-house, which means Marion could not have come in contact with neither the coin or Steward. But Steward could've found a way to do it, look at what Steward said in the 4th panel, "Well, you win. Now you GET dozens and hundreds of animals all ready to join the ECP." Note the usage of the word 'get'. To me, it seems that he was more or less referring to the woodland critters and NOT Marion, which implies he may not have been the origin point of the transformations. Which is also why he brought up Keene's "very selective hearing" as he knew Keene (and, for that matter, us the audience) would misinterpret everything and immediately throw the blame on him. Again, remember that Steward wasn't the first to be infected/transform via the coin, it was Thomas who was the first then Steward. So, for now, lets call Thomas a Patient Zero (def. used to refer to the person identified as the first carrier of a communicable disease in an outbreak of related cases). With that said, lets return to Marion and, again, ask the question: How did he transform and why him? Well, since we established that Steward never left the tree-house and his little remark about Keene's "very selective hearing," we can take him out of the suspect list. We can also cross Thomas out due to, as stated earlier, the coin he had was given to Steward (Same time, he's in a zoo, so he can't easily leave now, can he?), so there would be no way he could affect Marion. This leaves the following suspects:

Suspect 1 - Dallas: Remember back in Temple Crashers 2, we saw him pocketing some treasures? What if he was friends with Marion and, the night before he turned, he was hanging out with him and decided to show him the coin? Yes, he could've showed him it earlier but, as we seen, the coin's transformation effect is instantaneous. While this doesn't explain how Lois was transformed, it could explain how Marion was changed and would reveal that more then one coin is out there in Babylon Gardens.

Suspect 2 - Tarot: This will be a controversial suspect but there is a reason. When she was first introduced, she was shown to be a skilled magic(k) user, thanks to Dragon. After the U&U game was over, she did lose her powers but only briefly got them back when she came into contact with the mana pool in Pete's Temple. Now, after that whole incident, she was shown yelling at Kitsune over the whole event which got me thinking: What if she secretly took some mana back with her and, as a way to get back at Kitsune and the other Celestials for what they did to her life (I am not say she was once human...though that would be a interesting theory), started targeting random humans and turning them into animals? From my perspective, it seems that Tarot has some built up anger in her due to her interactions with the trio of Kitsune, Dragon, and Pete, which in turn would cause her to do something like this. If this was the case, it would also explain how Lois was transformed as, unlike the coin, magic(k) can work over very long distances so it would make sense for Tarot to be from a remote location and turn both Marion and Lois from human to critter.

Suspect 3 - DinoDemon: This one could very well be the reason though I am hesitant to label them as an actual suspect. Yes, we did see it leave with Keene and Breel as they escaped from the Netherworld. However, we then saw it 'bloop' out of the area, leaving Keene and company to, what he thought, their last few minutes of life. To me, he could've very well 'blooped' back to the Netherworld. But, if he is roaming about Babylon Gardens now, what would be his reasoning for the transformations? Well, seeing that it is a demon, maybe it looked into Keene's deepest thoughts and saw something about what he wanted to do with the ECP and, ergo, wanted to make him happy by removing ALL humans from the world. It's a stretch and could very well not be the case, but we can't rule out any suspect in this arc, can we?

Suspect 4 - Steward: Now, in the likelihood that Steward IS the culprit behind this whole ordeal (which, again, I don't believe it to be true), this brings up the question as to why he did this. In his little speech in panel 4, he doesn't come right out and say that he is behind the events that transpired, but vaguely hints that he could be. However, as I've brought up many times in this theorem, Steward mentioned Keene's selective hearing, which means he is a red herring and the true mastermind is still out there and he was technically just a pawn/innocent. Which brings me to one final suspect...

Suspect 5 - Craig/Pete & Trinket: Why Craig? Well, throughout the comic after Pete was turned into Craig, it was shown that he still held resentment towards Kitsune and he seemed to have hated his current predicament. What if, during the night of Marion's transformation, Craig/Pete snuck into Steward's room, took the coin, and told Trinket to take it to any random human, in this case Marion, and place it on them then, once they are turned, fly back so he could place the coin back in Steward's room and none would be the wiser? Plus, no one actually knows that Craig is Pete (other then Kitsune) and, seeing that the coin is Steward's, it would make this not only the perfect crime, but a way for Craig/Pete to get back at Kitsune, WHICH in turn would lead to his demand that he and Dragon be given back their Celestial statuses now, under the guise that he would turn both Lois and Marion back into humans. But, knowing Pete, if Kistune does give in and do just that, who to say Pete would keep his word? For all we know, he could either turn them into a different animal, make their lives worst, OR restart the U&U game with Lois and Marion being both his and Dragon's avatars?

Welsh Halfwit · Post by **Welsh Halfwit** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:36 am

Still brings us back to the point that, as far as we know, the cursed coins don't flip genders.

Post by **SeanWolf** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:41 pm

Welsh Halfwit wrote:Still brings us back to the point that, as far as we know, the cursed coins don't flip genders.

Funny you mentioned that as I just now had one more addition to that theory I made: What if there were multiple curses placed upon multiple coins? Meaning one coin switches genders when transforming and one does something else when transforming?

Welsh Halfwit · Post by **Welsh Halfwit** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:00 pm

SeanWolf wrote:
Welsh Halfwit wrote:Still brings us back to the point that, as far as we know, the cursed coins don't flip genders.
Funny you mentioned that as I just now had one more addition to that theory I made: What if there were multiple curses placed upon multiple coins? Meaning one coin switches genders when transforming and one does something else when transforming?

Only problem with that is Pete specified there was an incantation to break the curse on the coin. Unless it's a general curse breaker it'd need to be a very lucky find.

Elwood Blutarsky · Post by **Elwood Blutarsky** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:05 pm

I still don't think Steward did it. He's got a grudge but it's only with Keene and he has just cause at that. Thomas masterminded the embezzlement scheme and had ill intent. I don't see how he has the ability or the reason to do this and he was even talking about the ECP positively earlier. I also don't see how he could do a lot of damage with just the one coin that the user has to touch to have any issue.

Of course all this seems rather ominous. When this arc ends Wednesday suddenly I don't think it's going to be with a happy and human Lois and Marion sharing eggnog and recounting "that weird three days where (he) was a squirrel."

Welsh Halfwit · Post by **Welsh Halfwit** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:24 pm

Elwood Blutarsky wrote:I still don't think Stewart did it. He's got a grudge but it's only with Keene and he has just cause at that. Thomas masterminded the embezzlement scheme and had ill intent. I don't see how or why he has the how or the why to do this and was he even talking about the ECP positively earlier. I don't see how he could do a lot of damage with just the one coin that the user has to touch to have any issue.

Of course all this seems rather ominous. When this arc ends Wednesday suddenly I don't think it's going to be with a happy and human Lois and Marion sharing eggnog and recounting "that weird three days where (he) was a squirrel."

I don't think he did either. Perhaps we should let him finish his sentence?

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:54 pm

I want Steward to be guilty but now I can't stop thing about "what if he isn't?" If he isn't then, what was even the point of any of this? I mean if we wanted to know that the ferals didn't want to join the ECP then why spend four strips accomplishing something that could have been done in a single sentence. It makes more sense for him to by guilty and those strips being "Oh look at him actively carrying out his evil scheme of flooding the ECP." If not then Keene could have easier have told Marion and Lois that the ferals weren't interested instead of eating cookies. Lana could have told them. If Steward isn't guilty then again why involve him at all. What is gained by having Steward captured only to be released on the grounds of "he didn't do it"? He loses the coin, well he wasn't going use it anyway so who cares?

Here's another obvious question on the subject of motive. If Steward is innocent and was trying to keep the coin AWAY from Keene or at a least prevent Keene from bankrupting the Milton Corporation, why? Seriously why? It was a job for him that he lost. He was fired and about to be arrested. Because of Keene he lost his job, his human body, and his life so why would he give a carp whether or not Keene ran the company into the ground. Loyalty? That's cute but naive and overly optimistic. It's not his job to babysit the Miltons or the company anymore so why hold on to that? Why go so far to protect a company and a fortune he has nothing to do with anymore? If what happened to Steward happened to me, I would want to see Keene's fortune burn to the ground not hide in the woods to make sure it doesn't.

Cesco · Post by **Cesco** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:27 pm

The interrogatory already begun.

You got who's him, Keene, it's good for your first meet after the collapse of the temple. Keene still didn't know that the gold is cursed in that way, right?

No, Steward, I wouldn't call that a win for Keene. It's being a big trouble, instead... Right, Steward was on Keene's side but that didn't gave him a nice ending, so he teamed with Thomas and his plan to steal the ferret's riches, which ended also worse for both... You want an evil monologue, Keene?

Steward looks now so resigned to me, from him it's impossible...

GameCobra · Post by **GameCobra** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:27 pm

Turns out it was the old "drain the money" strategy, afterall, like Diss said. I wasn't expecting Stewart to be trying this, but at the same time it makes sense. However, i don't think Stewart is trying to be malicious still about this. I consider this a possible foreshadowing that the ferrets are going to go bankrupt in the future. Scrooge McDucks they aren't, but Stewart might be trying to stop them from losing that fortune the stricter way. Problem is - Stewart and Thomas don't know the 'real' reasons they went there. They only seen it from the coin's perspective. They didn't see it from the mana's perspective, which I think Stewart - at this point in the comic - is just futily trying to teach Keene a lesson. Something tells me Stewart is going to really need to clean those glasses in the future.

I like this ending so far, though. I'm hoping to see him more in the future.

Elwood Blutarsky · Post by **Elwood Blutarsky** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:35 pm

Cesco wrote:You want an evil monologue, Keene? Steward looks now so resigned to me, from him it's impossible...

Steward does seem like the kind of guy, err, former guy now American badger who just sort of accepted his lot in life post-TF. He hasn't made any attempt to change back. It doesn't seem like he and Thomas have had much contact since the accidental species altering. It doesn't look like he was trying to cause much trouble at Jessica's place and there were some hints he was looking to help. But on the other side of the coin, pun not intended, he had a tool with which to do some serious damage so who knows if he decided to use it or not.

I hadn't even thought that he may have been trying to get a lot of recruits for the program to bankrupt it from the cost but I could see that. He seems more a long con guy then a straight up rob the bank and run out the door in five minutes type. Doesn't look like he's had much success that we've seen though if that was his goal.

VeryAngryDeer · Post by **VeryAngryDeer** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:37 pm

fenrirblack wrote:I want Steward to be guilty but now I can't stop thing about "what if he isn't?" If he isn't then, what was even the point of any of this? I mean if we wanted to know that the ferals didn't want to join the ECP then why spend four strips accomplishing something that could have been done in a single sentence. It makes more sense for him to by guilty and those strips being "Oh look at him actively carrying out his evil scheme of flooding the ECP." If not then Keene could have easier have told Marion and Lois that the ferals weren't interested instead of eating cookies. Lana could have told them. If Steward isn't guilty then again why involve him at all. What is gained by having Steward captured only to be released on the grounds of "he didn't do it"? He loses the coin, well he wasn't going use it anyway so who cares?

Here's another obvious question on the subject of motive. If Steward is innocent and was trying to keep the coin AWAY from Keene or at a least prevent Keene from bankrupting the Milton Corporation, why? Seriously why? It was a job for him that he lost. He was fired and about to be arrested. Because of Keene he lost his job, his human body, and his life so why would he give a carp whether or not Keene ran the company into the ground. Loyalty? That's cute but naive and overly optimistic. It's not his job to babysit the Miltons or the company anymore so why hold on to that? Why go so far to protect a company and a fortune he has nothing to do with anymore? If what happened to Steward happened to me, I would want to see Keene's fortune burn to the ground not hide in the woods to make sure it doesn't.

This is what I was trying to address in my last comment.

I think Steward was keeping the coin away from Keene because he knows that Keene is the kind of person who will do whatever is neccessary to achieve a goal, no matter who gets hurt along the way. Given what happened in Temple Crashers 2, he wouldn't be wrong. Keene almost destroyed the world trying to make it equal. He may have changed since then, but what is a few hundred lives destroyed compared to almost feeding the universe to an eldritch abomination? If you have a character that would do the latter, is it unlikely that they would do the former?

Steward was changed into an animal against his will. If he has empathy for other people (and he apparently does) then he wouldn't want what happened to him to happen to others, which means he would want to keep the coin out of the wrong hands.

I don't think Steward cares at this point if the Milton ferrets bankrupt themselves, except insofar as it might interfere with the ECP which he apparently decided to support. He has no reason to be loyal to the ferrets, and he wasn't exactly loyal even when he was employed by their estate.

Let's take your hypothetical and add something to it: If what happened to Steward happened to you, would you implement a revenge plan that involved taking innocent people and destroying their lives in the same way yours was?

GameCobra · Post by **GameCobra** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:41 pm

One good thing though is that even though Stewart failed in his plan, he never seemed to consider the fact that the pets/animals have ways to increase profit somehow if they were like Gale. in fact, i'm betting Gale will come back in the future to prove Stewart wrong.

Ash Greytree · Post by **Ash Greytree** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:02 pm

Things being more complicated than Steward using the coin to try and ruin the Miltons makes the story more interesting. Steward having motives to keep the ECP from going under rather than trying to get revenge make him a more interesting and 3-dimensional character. The point of all of this was, IMO, to build out a new status-quo and set things up for potential future arcs.

My theory is this: Steward hid away the coin and was trying to convince animals to join the ECP at sustainable levels because he wants the ECP to succeed, for animals to gain equal rights under the law, and he can move on and do something else with his life. Maybe he regrets getting roped up into the scheme with Thomas and just wanted to move on? He potentially wouldn’t serve jail time because of statute of limitations or because of a loophole where Steward the human committed the crime but Steward the Badger never broke the law.

VeryAngryDeer · Post by **VeryAngryDeer** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:06 pm

Ash Greytree wrote:He potentially wouldn’t serve jail time because of statute of limitations or because of a loophole where Steward the human committed the crime but Steward the Badger never broke the law.

I'm not a lawyer, but I think he'd get off because the current law doesn't cover his situation, and future laws can't be applied retroactively.

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:04 pm

Ash Greytree wrote:Things being more complicated than Steward using the coin to try and ruin the Miltons makes the story more interesting. Steward having motives to keep the ECP from going under rather than trying to get revenge make him a more interesting and 3-dimensional character. The point of all of this was, IMO, to build out a new status-quo and set things up for potential future arcs.

My theory is this: Steward hid away the coin and was trying to convince animals to join the ECP at sustainable levels because he wants the ECP to succeed, for animals to gain equal rights under the law, and he can move on and do something else with his life. Maybe he regrets getting roped up into the scheme with Thomas and just wanted to move on? He potentially wouldn’t serve jail time because of statute of limitations or because of a loophole where Steward the human committed the crime but Steward the Badger never broke the law.

That makes sense but at the same time though if Steward wanted to move on then why spend so much time on something that might not work. There was never a certainty that the ECP would take off and considering how little luck Steward was having then his efforts to boost the ECP with ferals was failing at every turn. I've said this before but he could be dead before animals and humans have even a chance at equality. If he really wanted to move on then his best chance would be to join the ECP under the guise of random badger but he still opted out of that despite the fact Keene didn't know who he was until he pointed it out. If he wanted all that then his best choice would still be to push the ECP himself with the coin and speed the process along. Desperation can do a lot to a person especially when they've lost everything.

VeryAngryDeer wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:I want Steward to be guilty but now I can't stop thing about "what if he isn't?" If he isn't then, what was even the point of any of this? I mean if we wanted to know that the ferals didn't want to join the ECP then why spend four strips accomplishing something that could have been done in a single sentence. It makes more sense for him to by guilty and those strips being "Oh look at him actively carrying out his evil scheme of flooding the ECP." If not then Keene could have easier have told Marion and Lois that the ferals weren't interested instead of eating cookies. Lana could have told them. If Steward isn't guilty then again why involve him at all. What is gained by having Steward captured only to be released on the grounds of "he didn't do it"? He loses the coin, well he wasn't going use it anyway so who cares?

Here's another obvious question on the subject of motive. If Steward is innocent and was trying to keep the coin AWAY from Keene or at a least prevent Keene from bankrupting the Milton Corporation, why? Seriously why? It was a job for him that he lost. He was fired and about to be arrested. Because of Keene he lost his job, his human body, and his life so why would he give a carp whether or not Keene ran the company into the ground. Loyalty? That's cute but naive and overly optimistic. It's not his job to babysit the Miltons or the company anymore so why hold on to that? Why go so far to protect a company and a fortune he has nothing to do with anymore? If what happened to Steward happened to me, I would want to see Keene's fortune burn to the ground not hide in the woods to make sure it doesn't.
This is what I was trying to address in my last comment.

I think Steward was keeping the coin away from Keene because he knows that Keene is the kind of person who will do whatever is neccessary to achieve a goal, no matter who gets hurt along the way. Given what happened in Temple Crashers 2, he wouldn't be wrong. Keene almost destroyed the world trying to make it equal. He may have changed since then, but what is a few hundred lives destroyed compared to almost feeding the universe to an eldritch abomination? If you have a character that would do the latter, is it unlikely that they would do the former?

Steward was changed into an animal against his will. If he has empathy for other people (and he apparently does) then he wouldn't want what happened to him to happen to others, which means he would want to keep the coin out of the wrong hands.

I don't think Steward cares at this point if the Milton ferrets bankrupt themselves, except insofar as it might interfere with the ECP which he apparently decided to support. He has no reason to be loyal to the ferrets, and he wasn't exactly loyal even when he was employed by their estate.

Steward didn't know about the world ending stuff so he wouldn't know just how far Keene went to get the mana. The other thing is, if he wanted to keep the coin out of Keene's hands then why hold on to it? Why stay near Babylon Gardens instead of moving literally anywhere else or throwing the coin in a bottomless pit? If he wanted the coin away from Keene getting rid of it would have made more sense. Keene didn't know about the coin until Marion told him. Keene didn't even know what happened to him. Steward's plan made no sense in that regard. He was hiding the coin in plain sight from someone who didn't know it existed for scheme that Keene had no intention of doing. If it is still true that Steward was hiding it from Keene then Steward's an idiot.

Putting it another way, Steward hid in Jess' treehouse in a paranoid frenzy for over a year while simultaneously trying to convince every animal he could find to join a program that he himself refused to join, actively tried to end, and believed cost way too much as an act of good will and gain nothing from only fail at every turn.

VeryAngryDeer wrote:Let's take your hypothetical and add something to it: If what happened to Steward happened to you, would you implement a revenge plan that involved taking innocent people and destroying their lives in the same way yours was?

Yes.

Amazee Dayzee · Post by **Amazee Dayzee** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:09 pm

Sorry Steward, but turning evil just because the obnoxious egotistical ferret doesn't listen to you is NOT a valid excuse. So don't try to sell that while looking at us for sympathy.

VeryAngryDeer · Post by **VeryAngryDeer** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:11 pm

fenrirblack wrote:
VeryAngryDeer wrote:-snip
Steward didn't know about the world ending stuff so he wouldn't know just how far Keene went to get the mana. The other thing is, if he wanted to keep the coin out of Keene's hands then why hold on to it? Why stay near Babylon Gardens instead of moving literally anywhere else or throwing the coin in a bottomless pit? If he wanted the coin away from Keene getting rid of it would have made more sense. Keene didn't know about the coin until Marion told him. Keene didn't even know what happened to him. Steward's plan made no sense in that regard. He was hiding the coin in plain sight from someone who didn't know it existed for scheme that Keene had no intention of doing. If it is still true that Steward was hiding it from Keene then Steward's an idiot.

I didn't say he knew about the world ending stuff, I said he probably understood the kind of person Keene was and given what we know Keene is capable of, he'd be right to think that Keene is a dangerous person.

He probably kept the coin because it was important to him. Its a reminder of the biggest mistake in his entire life.

He could have gotten rid of it, yes, but until the page where someone talks about exploiting magic, he may not have even thought about what other people might do with his coin. Until Marion showed up, even that was a thought experiment, not an imminent danger. Its only when Keene showed up right in front of him that he actually tried to get the coin away from Keene.

Like Steward didn't know what happened in the temple, he's also had no way of knowing what Keene does or does not know. Given that his crime was caught on camera, its surprising that Keene didn't know that Steward turned into a badger and had a coin.

Out in the woods is not "in plain sight" of the ferrets. He had no way of knowing if Keene knew it existed or not. Whether or not Keene would do it is entirely up in the air, especially given his ominious "we're going to make a thing out of it" speech right after he realised that transformed humans would join the ECP to get their rights back.

fenrirblack wrote:Putting it another way, Steward hid in Jess' treehouse in a paranoid frenzy for over a year while simultaneously trying to convince every animal he could find to join a program that he himself refused to join, actively tried to end, and believed cost way too much as an act of good will and gain nothing from only fail at every turn.

I don't think he was hiding, its just the nearest place he could have gone to that was both in the wild and decently habitable for someone used to living in human dwellings. Steward probably didn't want to have to live in a hole like Jess did prior to the Tree House's construction.

I don't think he was in a paranoid frenzy. I think he had concerns that had enough basis in reality to cause worry, but were not likely enough or immediate enough to cause him to act on them.

If any of the prey ferals had actually taken up the offer to join the ECP, perhaps he wouldn't be trying to convince all of them. He didn't join the ECP because, while Keene didn't immediately recognise him, that doesn't mean he couldn't be recognised if he were around Keene for an extended period. Not unless he changed his personality, mannerisms, the way he talks, and made sure to never say anything that might indicate he wasn't just some random wild badger. Yes, he actively impeded the ECP when he was a human, but as I said earlier, he did that for the purpose of provoking Keene in order to steal from the Temple, not because he hates the ECP. He may well be telling the truth about the ECP's unsustainability, but that doesn't mean he can't think that its a good thing (so long as it doesn't involve forcibly transforming humans into animals.)

Basically, imagine you find a sheaf of paper while you're walking around. It says "TOP SECRET" on it, but you read it anway, because its probably just a prank. It looks kind of like the details for some secret military project, but you don't know enough about the subject to say one way or the other, and its really unlikely to be real. You take the sheaf of paper home and hang it on the wall, just for a laugh. The possibility exists that the paper is real and the military will visit you and charge you with espionage or something. But you have no reason to believe its real.

And then, one day, the military bashes down your door and arrests you. Were you an idiot for not getting rid of the paper?

fenrirblack wrote:
VeryAngryDeer wrote:Let's take your hypothetical and add something to it: If what happened to Steward happened to you, would you implement a revenge plan that involved taking innocent people and destroying their lives in the same way yours was?
Yes.

... harsh

Argent · Post by **Argent** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:12 pm

So Google says if Los Angeles provided shelter beds to all 30,000 homeless people it would cost $600 million a year, beds, services, everything included. That's 20,000 a year per capita.The ECP is supporting one pack of wolves, one family of dogs, and now a squirrel and a puma. If Lana's grown that to 50 individuals it's still maybe a million dollars a year. The Milton fortune is big enough Henry could liquidate 11 billion dollars into gold without even wiggling the markets (or that would have already been news, and it wouldn't have come as a surprise to Thomas and Celia). That's 11,000 years at the current rate of expenditure.

Don't give Steward's rantings any credit.

Amazee Dayzee · Post by **Amazee Dayzee** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:14 pm

Unless it turns out that the ferrets made a sizable dent in the fortune using it for a lot of dumb things.

VeryAngryDeer · Post by **VeryAngryDeer** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:19 pm

Amazee Dayzee wrote:Unless it turns out that the ferrets made a sizable dent in the fortune using it for a lot of dumb things.

Such as jello swimming pools, portable saunas, and pudding abatement?

Amazee Dayzee · Post by **Amazee Dayzee** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:21 pm

I'm sure that they also did a lot more increasingly stupid things too.

Vertigo Fox · Post by **Vertigo Fox** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:30 pm

Rick was clearly watching us theorize about motives and cackling maniacally when we didn't come close.

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:41 pm

VeryAngryDeer wrote: Out in the woods is not "in plain sight" of the ferrets. He had no way of knowing if Keene knew it existed or not. Whether or not Keene would do it is entirely up in the air, especially given his ominious "we're going to make a thing out of it" speech right after he realized that transformed humans would join the ECP to get their rights back.

And Yet he was found very easily. All Marion had to do was point them in his general direction. If he really wanted to hide then he should tried a lot harder. The only reason he was not found before now was because Keene didn't try to look for him after what he did.

VeryAngryDeer wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:Putting it another way, Steward hid in Jess' treehouse in a paranoid frenzy for over a year while simultaneously trying to convince every animal he could find to join a program that he himself refused to join, actively tried to end, and believed cost way too much as an act of good will and gain nothing from only fail at every turn.
I don't think he was hiding, its just the nearest place he could have gone to that was both in the wild and decently habitable for someone used to living in human dwellings. Steward probably didn't want to have to live in a hole like Jess did prior to the Tree House's construction.

I don't think he was in a paranoid frenzy. I think he had concerns that had enough basis in reality to cause worry, but were not likely enough or immediate enough to cause him to act on them.

If any of the prey ferals had actually taken up the offer to join the ECP, perhaps he wouldn't be trying to convince all of them. He didn't join the ECP because, while Keene didn't immediately recognise him, that doesn't mean he couldn't be recognised if he were around Keene for an extended period. Not unless he changed his personality, mannerisms, the way he talks, and made sure to never say anything that might indicate he wasn't just some random wild badger. Yes, he actively impeded the ECP when he was a human, but as I said earlier, he did that for the purpose of provoking Keene in order to steal from the Temple, not because he hates the ECP. He may well be telling the truth about the ECP's unsustainability, but that doesn't mean he can't think that its a good thing (so long as it doesn't involve forcibly transforming humans into animals.)

Keene doesn't spend any extended time with the animals in the ECP. He literally said "Lana can take of it." He's retired so he would probably never see Steward after he joined and once Steward was settled with a job and living arrangement, never see any of them.

If he still believed in its unsustanuablity then there is still no logical reason he would be pushing it on every feral that comes to Jess's house even if he thought it was a good thing; it would still fail good intentions aside and then the ferals he saved would be right back where they started. Or at least that would be what he's thinking in his warped mind.

VeryAngryDeer wrote:Basically, imagine you find a sheaf of paper while you're walking around. It says "TOP SECRET" on it, but you read it anway, because its probably just a prank. It looks kind of like the details for some secret military project, but you don't know enough about the subject to say one way or the other, and its really unlikely to be real. You take the sheaf of paper home and hang it on the wall, just for a laugh. The possibility exists that the paper is real and the military will visit you and charge you with espionage or something. But you have no reason to believe its real.

And then, one day, the military bashes down your door and arrests you. Were you an idiot for not getting rid of the paper?

That metaphor doesn't work because Steward knows the true power of the coin because he experienced it first hand. He knew it was dangerous and was no joke. And if you didn't believe the paper was real then why would you hold onto it. It's trash.

Argent wrote:So Google says if Los Angeles provided shelter beds to all 30,000 homeless people it would cost $600 million a year, beds, services, everything included. That's 20,000 a year per capita.The ECP is supporting one pack of wolves, one family of dogs, and now a squirrel and a puma. If Lana's grown that to 50 individuals it's still maybe a million dollars a year. The Milton fortune is big enough Henry could liquidate 11 billion dollars into gold without even wiggling the markets (or that would have already been news, and it wouldn't have come as a surprise to Thomas and Celia). That's 11,000 years at the current rate of expenditure.

Don't give Steward's rantings any credit.

Steward said and I quote "You have been pulling millions from operating funds" and that was just back when it was just King and the Wolves. More importantly, Steward clearly lost his dear little mind anyway.

tomindex · Post by **tomindex** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:11 pm

"click or else" now I don't wanna click.

Also still on the badger is Marion's dad

Mod Edit: Please do not double-post. If you need to add new information to a thread, and yours is the most recent reply, you may use the edit button in its upper-right corner.

Amazee Dayzee · Post by **Amazee Dayzee** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:20 pm

That was a theory that I think people gave up a long time ago and only thought it was true because of the similarities of the last name which wasn't very good anyway. Though it is possible that Marion's dad might be around somewhere.

Plus, Steward was a very light-skinned black man and Marion's mother Julia was white. Marion also was white before the transformation so if Steward was his father, he would have a shade of black to him.

God trying to explain this makes me sound horrible. >_<

andwhyisit · Post by **andwhyisit** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:59 pm

dr_eirik wrote:And did he transform our duo himself? Or who helped?

It was clearly Trinket. I really doubt that the bird flying off in the distance when Lois transformed was just setting the mood.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:17 am

Argent wrote:So Google says if Los Angeles provided shelter beds to all 30,000 homeless people it would cost $600 million a year, beds, services, everything included. That's 20,000 a year per capita.The ECP is supporting one pack of wolves, one family of dogs, and now a squirrel and a puma. If Lana's grown that to 50 individuals it's still maybe a million dollars a year. The Milton fortune is big enough Henry could liquidate 11 billion dollars into gold without even wiggling the markets (or that would have already been news, and it wouldn't have come as a surprise to Thomas and Celia). That's 11,000 years at the current rate of expenditure.

Don't give Steward's rantings any credit.

But you also have to factor in that to keep the companies that are their income going, they have to reinvest in the companies, pay repairs for equipment, pay the workers. I don't remember how many businesses it was said that Milton owned, but it comes out to a lot of money. And then there's all the wasteful spending on diamond jackets, film studios, swimming pools full of jello, candy nerds, or chocolate pudding depending on the day of the week. Add to that taxes (taxes do go quite high when you get filthy stinking rich, though it usually means you can afford expensive lawyers and accountants to find loopholes, so they're still spending quite a bit of money if they pay all the taxes they owe or not). The vast wealth can easily run dry if you're not careful with it.
Not that I would chide Keene for his efforts with the ECP - his methods maybe, but not his intent - but Steward is right. Keene could easily bankrupt the Milton estate, especially if the other ferrets just do whatever they want. ON that front, though, Steward should have been way more angry at the other ferrets, not Keene, as their actions were just as outlandish and did nothing but serve their own self-indulgence. There's probably some other motives behind Steward's actions - possibly even ones he's not consciously aware of.

tomindex · Post by **tomindex** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:37 am

tomindex wrote:"click or else" now I don't wanna click.

Also still on the badger is Marion's dad

Mod Edit: Please do not double-post. If you need to add new information to a thread, and yours is the most recent reply, you may use the edit button in its upper-right corner.

My bad fam ay merry Christmas though

Champion Wallace · Post by **Champion Wallace** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:40 am

I've said I think this strip exonerates Steward, but knowing this comic I wouldn't be surprised if the next strip confirms him as a villain, a hero, or says nothing on that subject.

VeryAngryDeer wrote:He knows that the ECP would have to either be a charity, or self-sustaining (perhaps by acting as a loan which successful ECP members pay back once they're producing money.)

So the carpet shark would become a loan shark? I thought he said he didn't want to be a monster

.

Welsh Halfwit wrote:Still brings us back to the point that, as far as we know, the cursed coins don't flip sex.

With only two confirmed cases we can't realistically make a claim like that; you could just as easily say as far as we know, the cursed coin don't affect young people.

fenrirblack wrote:Here's another obvious question on the subject of motive. If Steward is innocent and was trying to keep the coin AWAY from Keene or at a least prevent Keene from bankrupting the Milton Corporation, why? Seriously why? It was a job for him that he lost. He was fired and about to be arrested. Because of Keene he lost his job, his human body, and his life so why would he give a carp whether or not Keene ran the company into the ground. Loyalty? That's cute but naive and overly optimistic. It's not his job to babysit the Miltons or the company anymore so why hold on to that? Why go so far to protect a company and a fortune he has nothing to do with anymore? If what happened to Steward happened to me, I would want to see Keene's fortune burn to the ground not hide in the woods to make sure it doesn't.

It takes a specific type of person to seek out a career as court appointed steward... Besides, that's assuming his only goal is preventing financial ruin. If he thinks the coin falling into the wrong hands would lead to forced transformations, saving others from the same fate as him is noble enough.

fenrirblack wrote:The other thing is, if he wanted to keep the coin out of Keene's hands then why hold on to it? Why stay near Babylon Gardens instead of moving literally anywhere else or throwing the coin in a bottomless pit? If he wanted the coin away from Keene getting rid of it would have made more sense. Keene didn't know about the coin until Marion told him. Keene didn't even know what happened to him. Steward's plan made no sense in that regard. He was hiding the coin in plain sight from someone who didn't know it existed for scheme that Keene had no intention of doing.

Moving somewhere far away could have been ideal, but he is a badger with badger legs and human survival skills. Living in the tree house is better then running away and starving to death. We know Keene had no idea about Steward or the coin's fate, but Steward's claims have such certainty that he must have believed Keene knew he was a badger and would transform people if he got the chance. Steward wasn't present for the temple shenanigans, but did witness Keene being so carefree about Thomas's camel-fication.

Argent wrote:So Google says if Los Angeles provided shelter beds to all 30,000 homeless people it would cost $600 million a year, beds, services, everything included. That's 20,000 a year per capita.The ECP is supporting one pack of wolves, one family of dogs, and now a squirrel and a puma. If Lana's grown that to 50 individuals it's still maybe a million dollars a year. The Milton fortune is big enough Henry could liquidate 11 billion dollars into gold without even wiggling the markets (or that would have already been news, and it wouldn't have come as a surprise to Thomas and Celia). That's 11,000 years at the current rate of expenditure.

Don't give Steward's rantings any credit.

That's just providing living arrangements. The ECP is trying to find jobs for and integrate into society animals that never when to kindergarten. The price would skyrocket if they paid for everyone's college tuition like with Miles and Marion, let alone the investment it would take to prepare less erudite applicants for such classes.

fenrirblack wrote:Keene doesn't spend any extended time with the animals in the ECP. He literally said "Lana can take of it." He's retired so he would probably never see Steward after he joined and once Steward was settled with a job and living arrangement, never see any of them.

Keene is just one ferret. It wouldn't be much better for him if Lana recognized him.

fenrirblack wrote:If he still believed in its unsustanuablity then there is still no logical reason he would be pushing it on every feral that comes to Jess's house even if he thought it was a good thing; it would still fail good intentions aside and then the ferals he saved would be right back where they started. Or at least that would be what he's thinking in his warped mind.

Pushing the ECP on thirty-or-so ferals doesn't mean he wants 30 new members. If all of them shot him down then the next one he talks to would only increase the load by one if they accept.

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:24 pm

Argent wrote:So Google says if Los Angeles provided shelter beds to all 30,000 homeless people it would cost $600 million a year, beds, services, everything included. That's 20,000 a year per capita.The ECP is supporting one pack of wolves, one family of dogs, and now a squirrel and a puma. If Lana's grown that to 50 individuals it's still maybe a million dollars a year. The Milton fortune is big enough Henry could liquidate 11 billion dollars into gold without even wiggling the markets (or that would have already been news, and it wouldn't have come as a surprise to Thomas and Celia). That's 11,000 years at the current rate of expenditure.

Don't give Steward's rantings any credit.

Mr. Stewart is to accounting as Mr. London is to the legal profession and Other Daryl is to security enforcement.

Amazee Dayzee · Post by **Amazee Dayzee** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:40 pm

I think that if it was food you were stealing that TOD would be VERY effective at stopping the thief.

KathYohneke · Post by **KathYohneke** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:42 pm

Considering steward's track record, Im betting something along the lines of "the ECP is set up in such a way that even if millions joined I wouldnt lose money and all this does is give publicity to the system essentially meaning in all regards I win you lose" sort of deal is gonna happen

averagedog · Post by **averagedog** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:05 pm

I was going to do the "I was Right" Dance 6 to 7 comic pages due, but I am starting to suspect that there is more to what is going on. For one, Even though Steward looks pretty ripped (look at those arm muscles) I don't think he is a climber. To transform Marion he would have had to climb into Marion's room through the window or, Marion's family could be extremely negligent with home security.

There is also the mention of Thomas and even though Thomas is a Camel now, it could be possible that he is still in contact with his Sister who willingly "started from zero" to rebuild the Human Milton Fortune. If she did indeed amass some wealth, she has resources, resources, Thomas could convince her to use somehow, likely through Sibling nagging powers.

Vertigo Fox · Post by **Vertigo Fox** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:32 pm

Totally unrelated, buuuut...
Ever since a couple strips halfway through the arc where Marion started wearing clothes to retain some humanity, he's just gone naked with nary a comment from him or any other characters...
I had the thought that when he took them off at the zoo (I think) he just forgot to put them back on. I wondered if he'd eventually notice, but he's running out of time in the story.

Even Lois doesn't seem to want to say anything.

Sir Chestnut · Post by **Sir Chestnut** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:12 pm

Vertigo Fox wrote:Totally unrelated, buuuut...
Ever since a couple strips halfway through the arc where Marion started wearing clothes to retain some humanity, he's just gone naked with nary a comment from him or any other characters...
I had the thought that when he took them off at the zoo (I think) he just forgot to put them back on. I wondered if he'd eventually notice, but he's running out of time in the story. Even Lois doesn't seem to want to say anything.

He left them drying on the tree outside the school after he fell in the toilet.

Vertigo Fox · Post by **Vertigo Fox** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:33 pm

And if he was that serious about his dignity he woulda gone back for 'em.
That's what dignity is about after all. The things you should not have to compromise.

Champion Wallace · Post by **Champion Wallace** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:51 pm

Like others have said, I don't think Steward is talking about working with Thomas to use the coin, instead talking about the partnership that culminated in Temple Crashers 2.

Sir Chestnut wrote:
Vertigo Fox wrote:Totally unrelated, buuuut...
Ever since a couple strips halfway through the arc where Marion started wearing clothes to retain some humanity, he's just gone naked with nary a comment from him or any other characters...
I had the thought that when he took them off at the zoo (I think) he just forgot to put them back on. I wondered if he'd eventually notice, but he's running out of time in the story. Even Lois doesn't seem to want to say anything.
He left them drying on the tree outside the school after he fell in the toilet.

That was in the afternoon and now it's night. That's enough time for Marion to get new clothes from his house. His clothes on the tree should be fully dry by now.