Housepets!

2023/01/17 - The Pbbts Have It

Curious to see where this goes.

So Keene is still ultimately using them for his own gain, ignoring their wishes to return to their original selves?

Plus, there’s still kind of a whole city to fix. Unless Keene is saying that all of this is preferable to what they want.

D-Rock wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:50 am So Keene is still ultimately using them for his own gain, ignoring their wishes to return to their original selves?

Plus, there’s still kind of a whole city to fix. Unless Keene is saying that all of this is preferable to what they want.

Seems like Keene on a whole was in this for his own gain...again.

I am only OK with them remaining animals if that is what THEY want. If Keene screws them over I will be really ANNOYED here. But it looks like they want to go back to being humans now.

Marion's the tie breaker, it looks like.

Amazee Dayzee wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:18 pm I am only OK with them remaining animals if that is what THEY want. If Keene screws them over I will be really ANNOYED here. But it looks like they want to go back to being humans now.

I don't know. We've seen that Marion and Lois were saying they are okay with being animals. But that's just two of them. Todd may agree maaaybe if that Aardvark will be there and they'll become a couple (I guess?). I don't think Breel and Negabreel has anything they want specifically. Tarot doesn't have wish and the kits already got what they wanted.

Though I still don't know what to expect. Rick may do anything and surprise us with something.

I know for sure that I don't want Lois and Marion to become humans. This would be equivalent of completely negating their whole character development. They would just lose their characters. We met them as animals. Lois was still human for few strips, but it's like removing everything that happened. When I think of Mario, I think of a squirrel, not a human. Would any of You want King to become human after what happened to him? This would be... bad.

And here I thought he humbled a little. Good to know its still the sane old Keene

Were Jack wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:57 pm

Amazee Dayzee wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:18 pm I am only OK with them remaining animals if that is what THEY want. If Keene screws them over I will be really ANNOYED here. But it looks like they want to go back to being humans now.

I don't know. We've seen that Marion and Lois were saying they are okay with being animals. But that's just two of them. Todd may agree maaaybe if that Aardvark will be there and they'll become a couple (I guess?). I don't think Breel and Negabreel has anything they want specifically. Tarot doesn't have wish and the kits already got what they wanted.

Though I still don't know what to expect. Rick may do anything and surprise us with something.

I know for sure that I don't want Lois and Marion to become humans. This would be equivalent of completely negating their whole character development. They would just lose their characters. We met them as animals. Lois was still human for few strips, but it's like removing everything that happened. When I think of Mario, I think of a squirrel, not a human. Would any of You want King to become human after what happened to him? This would be... bad.

Marion and King always had this key difference; King had nothing to go back to, Marion had everything to lose, but at least had a strong support.

They won't give in to their wishes. Being human is what they want.


Unless...
Keene can wish for his foundation to be successful if he gives a sacrifice. Maybe his love? Or his own life? I am seeing a tearjerking ending of the ark... I am sure of it.

SeanWolf wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:52 am

D-Rock wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:50 am So Keene is still ultimately using them for his own gain, ignoring their wishes to return to their original selves?

Plus, there’s still kind of a whole city to fix. Unless Keene is saying that all of this is preferable to what they want.

Seems like Keene on a whole was in this for his own gain...again.

Keene was fighting for the general good.

It's just that general good isn't always everyone's good.

And so the boons are given
and alliances fall from favour.
One wants the best for all;
the others have a personal flavour.
Some want to be returned
(although Marion’s pretty quiet)
whereas others are pretty Keene
(And one wants a muffin diet)
What will they give for world peace?
What will be the way forward?
What will be the end result of this?
Will anyone get their reward?

It's very good like that, Cerberus. Those turned into animals want to be back as humans, except Aardvark, who's not even with you and is happy like that new life. Uhm, so, you wish if they would stay as animals and live the rest as such because of your ECP program, Keene? You're always and already with Keene, Breel. Well, actually, none of you two deserve a boon for all the mess caused, Steward and NegaBreel... And here's the pbbt of mine. Yeah, Lois.
Now we have who want to be back as human and who want to realize the ECP program, and only one big boon can be realized... The important thing is be back to life, though...

D-Rock wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:50 am So Keene is still ultimately using them for his own gain, ignoring their wishes to return to their original selves?

Plus, there’s still kind of a whole city to fix. Unless Keene is saying that all of this is preferable to what they want.

Wow, a whole city to fix - maybe Rick going to reveL something I've wondered about the superhero universes for decades - who clean up the titanic messes left behind after evil is defeated (againagainagainagainagain ......)?

Were Jack wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:57 pm

Amazee Dayzee wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:18 pm I am only OK with them remaining animals if that is what THEY want. If Keene screws them over I will be really ANNOYED here. But it looks like they want to go back to being humans now.

I don't know. We've seen that Marion and Lois were saying they are okay with being animals. But that's just two of them. Todd may agree maaaybe if that Aardvark will be there and they'll become a couple (I guess?). I don't think Breel and Negabreel has anything they want specifically. Tarot doesn't have wish and the kits already got what they wanted.

Though I still don't know what to expect. Rick may do anything and surprise us with something.

I know for sure that I don't want Lois and Marion to become humans. This would be equivalent of completely negating their whole character development. They would just lose their characters. We met them as animals. Lois was still human for few strips, but it's like removing everything that happened. When I think of Mario, I think of a squirrel, not a human. Would any of You want King to become human after what happened to him? This would be... bad.

a part of me sincerely doubts Todd and Aardvark Guy are a thing, but now i cant stop thinking about this crackship.

So this confuses me. A single small boon for everyone, or one big boon they all agree on? Ignoring how you measure boons (An organization being successful in their aims just seems... 'lesser' to me than complete biological transfiguration, but this IS a webcomic), I don't get why this system was put in place at all. Cerberus isn't a robot or anything- she can sniff out when someone tries to pull 'infinite wishes' on her. Just give everyone one wish and adjust for inflation later.

Maybe just to have a reason for this conflict?

Honestly even if Keene gets what he wants I think it will fail. It will be made "successful" for the moment but then the people who were blocking him in every aspect will just start tearing him down again. As for Marion losing his character development, we don't know what flaws he had before he became a squirrel and had his sec forcefully changed against his will and he has lost more than he's gained, including his ability to go to school, and Lois? Well I don't know how she's changed apart from adapting to her new form.

I'm starting to really dislike Keene especially since someone convincing people to give up something for his own gain while hiding it in "the greater good" is far too real a story that in the real world is a lie too many people fall for and is the reason so many horrible people have power in the world. I know Keene does want to help animals, but at the same time I've heard this song in the real world too often and I'm too jaded to buy it

Doesn’t help that Keene has a history of being morally questionable, like try marrying off Sabrina against her wishes, paying off a judge to get it through, and seeing Marion’s curse as an opportunity for the ECP.

D-Rock wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:45 pm Doesn’t help that Keene has a history of being morally questionable, like try marrying off Sabrina against her wishes, paying off a judge to get it through, and seeing Marion’s curse as an opportunity for the ECP.

exactly, thank you

Time for Keene's Mom to step on stage ... and maybe on Keene. But it's nothin' Cerberus can't handle.

I don't think even his own MOTHER could get him to back down after everything. That or she agrees with him because she wants one of her children to be happy.

His FATHER though might be a different story considering he was doing all of this for him.

OtherStr8aura wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:28 pm

Were Jack wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:57 pm

Amazee Dayzee wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:18 pm I am only OK with them remaining animals if that is what THEY want. If Keene screws them over I will be really ANNOYED here. But it looks like they want to go back to being humans now.

I don't know. We've seen that Marion and Lois were saying they are okay with being animals. But that's just two of them. Todd may agree maaaybe if that Aardvark will be there and they'll become a couple (I guess?). I don't think Breel and Negabreel has anything they want specifically. Tarot doesn't have wish and the kits already got what they wanted.

Though I still don't know what to expect. Rick may do anything and surprise us with something.

I know for sure that I don't want Lois and Marion to become humans. This would be equivalent of completely negating their whole character development. They would just lose their characters. We met them as animals. Lois was still human for few strips, but it's like removing everything that happened. When I think of Mario, I think of a squirrel, not a human. Would any of You want King to become human after what happened to him? This would be... bad.

a part of me sincerely doubts Todd and Aardvark Guy are a thing, but now i cant stop thinking about this crackship.

Would kinda like to see Aardvark return to the story, but I've never warmed to Todd. He's sorta like Tiger but without the charm ... or the sarcasm.

Nobody wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:48 pm Marion's the tie breaker, it looks like.

And we know that Marion, at a minimum, wants to go back to being a guy (and for Lois to be a girl)

OtherStr8aura wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:30 pm (An organization being successful in their aims just seems... 'lesser' to me than complete biological transfiguration, but this IS a webcomic)

The Equal Chance Program is essentially about changing attitudes, culture. It's about normalizing "a skunk walks into a bar" and not getting interrupted with "wait, what's a skunk doing in a bar?" It could be argued it affects free will, which is probably the most expensive thing in Heaven

Why does being turned back to human even have to be a boon? What does that mean for the other people who got caught up in this curse who had nothing to do with any of this? Are they just stuck like that because they didn't help out when most of them didn't even know?

Cerberus wrote:No that would be stupid and mean. Why would I do that?

However this shakes out, it's going to end up being fair for everyone involved. That's my speculation for today

Since it could be argued Keene is partially responsible for the coin getting out of the temple, I'd say he he's got a brass neck asking them togive up what they want for him.

CunningFox wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:59 am Since it could be argued Keene is partially responsible for the coin getting out of the temple, I'd say he he's got a brass neck asking them togive up what they want for him.

He's not. He's voicing what his boon would be. It's not his fault that someone else has decided that all the boons are small or have to be combined into a big one. He had no idea anyone would have to give up theirs for his.

CunningFox wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:59 am Since it could be argued Keene is partially responsible for the coin getting out of the temple, I'd say he he's got a brass neck asking them togive up what they want for him.

... along with being neurotic, self-centered, duplicious, and rivetingly single-minded, yeah. Part of his charm.

I do hope they tell him off for suggesting it. Its his fault in the first place that they are animals. And even still he’s a billionaire, he has the time and the money, and like tarot said earlier, sometimes you just have to deal with what you have

FalinkesInculta wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:46 am I do hope they tell him off for suggesting it. Its his fault in the first place that they are animals.

Is it?

He wanted equivalence. To that end he signed an agreement with Pete that they'd work together. That's his fault.
He arranged the tournament to get to the centre of the pyramid. That's his fault.
The Milton son and Mr Steward used the chance to tomb raid the pyramid. That's NOT his fault.
The Milton son chose to spit a cursed coin at Steward. That's NOT Keene's fault.
Steward chooses to believe Keene deserves to be destroyed. That's PARTLY his fault due to clashes on how to handle the Milton fortune.
Steward goes off the deep end, allies with Trinket to change people into animals to bankrupt Keene. That's NOT his fault.
Steward allies with a Demon to really change the world... That's NOT Keene's fault.

He's responsible for some of the build up. He's not responsible for Steward's actions.

I was feeling hopeful for Keene after his Heaven trip, resigning his office and moving to BG... Not feeling so good about him now.

You don't want to be human Keene, so use your personal boon for something ECP related, let the others choose too.

I do hope Marion & Lois stay as they are though, for some reason...

Shryke wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:34 am I was feeling hopeful for Keene after his Heaven trip, resigning his office and moving to BG... Not feeling so good about him now.

You don't want to be human Keene, so use your personal boon for something ECP related, let the others choose too.

He can't. Cerberus just said that the 'reverse curse' boon is so large they ALL have to want it.

I'm this particular moment, Keene is not selfish; he's utilitarian. He's always been utilitarian.

If they go back to being human, that benefits four individuals. If they undo the damage to the city (including changing animals back to humans), that benefits hundreds, maybe thousands.

If the foundation is successful, that benefits millions. And it also fulfills his dad's most treasured goal.

Keene is many things, but selfish is not one of them.

Welsh Halfwit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:56 am

FalinkesInculta wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:46 am I do hope they tell him off for suggesting it. Its his fault in the first place that they are animals.

He arranged the tournament to get to the centre of the pyramid. That's his fault.

His temple raiding led to NB getting on earth, which then lead to Euodant getting onto earth. If he didnt try the easy way with the temple, and only used his mere billions he would’ve been fine, as would the ECP

FalinkesInculta wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:23 pm

Welsh Halfwit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:56 am

FalinkesInculta wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:46 am I do hope they tell him off for suggesting it. Its his fault in the first place that they are animals.

He arranged the tournament to get to the centre of the pyramid. That's his fault.

His temple raiding led to NB getting on earth, which then lead to Euodant getting onto earth. If he didnt try the easy way with the temple, and only used his mere billions he would’ve been fine, as would the ECP

Not within his lifetime. Any plans constructed by a C.E.O. are in most danger of being subverted by the NEXT C.E.O. But he has nothing to do with the activities of Steward, which is where the coin really came into play.

That may all be true but he shouldn't try to force everybody to change what they want to help his goals. That just reeks of selfishness after all of the growth he seemed to get.

Amazee Dayzee wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:36 pm That may all be true but he shouldn't try to force everybody to change what they want to help his goals. That just reeks of selfishness after all of the growth he seemed to get.

He's not trying to force. He's trying to persuade. Like a politician. Like a businessman. Which is what he is.

I'm also thinking about the whole city turned to animals, and what Kitsune said earlier. I'm kind of hoping Tarot's words (the "force of nature" stuff) got to him.

Welsh Halfwit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:42 am

Shryke wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:34 am I was feeling hopeful for Keene after his Heaven trip, resigning his office and moving to BG... Not feeling so good about him now.

You don't want to be human Keene, so use your personal boon for something ECP related, let the others choose too.

He can't. Cerberus just said that the 'reverse curse' boon is so large they ALL have to want it.

Er, you sure? I think when Cerb said "That would be a very big boon!" "You'd all have to vote on it," it was specific to Keene's ECP program to be successful, with the included caveat of not destroying the balance of the world.

Tweaking or overwriting the free will of several billion people (and animals) is... pretty friggin' huge.

Yeah Keene is in the wrong here, lol. Not only is he depriving everyone else of the chance to return to a normal life after their traumatic transformations, he’s also using their wishes to override the free will of millions of people, even if this for a good cause. And even if the ECP is successful, guess what, speciesism still exists.

Welsh Halfwit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:56 am

FalinkesInculta wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:46 am I do hope they tell him off for suggesting it. Its his fault in the first place that they are animals.

Is it?

He wanted equivalence. To that end he signed an agreement with Pete that they'd work together. That's his fault.
He arranged the tournament to get to the centre of the pyramid. That's his fault.
The Milton son and Mr Steward used the chance to tomb raid the pyramid. That's NOT his fault.
The Milton son chose to spit a cursed coin at Steward. That's NOT Keene's fault.
Steward chooses to believe Keene deserves to be destroyed. That's PARTLY his fault due to clashes on how to handle the Milton fortune.
Steward goes off the deep end, allies with Trinket to change people into animals to bankrupt Keene. That's NOT his fault.
Steward allies with a Demon to really change the world... That's NOT Keene's fault.

He's responsible for some of the build up. He's not responsible for Steward's actions.

... and, since Steward is an accountant, he can be held ENTIRELY accountable !! Oh ... yeah ... wait ... there's Thomas and that coin thing, too. sigh.

Welsh Halfwit wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:56 am The Milton son and Mr Steward used the chance to tomb raid the pyramid. That's NOT his fault.

To be honest, I think this would still partially be his fault. Keene was reckless in the setup of his scheme, which allowed for Thomas to reach the treasure and get one of the cursed coins out.

IIRC Keene also mentions he knew Steward was working with Thomas having caught them on camera, which kinda suggests he could've stopped them beforehand?