Chat Thread 35: If It Doesn't Exist, Then It Will Be Made

Dubiousity · Post by **Dubiousity** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:50 pm

Exactly my point Sleet!

Post by **Dissension** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:00 pm

Do you really think that's the thought process of an average 18-year-old who's being forced to attend college? Then there are those who start with good intentions, but get sucked into activities that drain all their time and energy. Self-control is important!

Post by **Sleet** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:02 pm

Dissension wrote:Do you really think that's the thought process of an average 18-year-old who's being forced to attend college? Then there are those who start with good intentions, but get sucked into activities that drain all their time and energy. Self-control is important!

No, but it'd be good if it were.

KJOokami · Post by **KJOokami** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:18 pm

Personally, I find it hard to motivate myself to get work done in college classes because the majority of them are irrelevant to my future career of choice. That, and I think the idea that having a piece of paper saying you've been in school for a few more years than a high school graduate (particularly regarding jobs in which experience in the field will trump book-smarts on every front) is the only way to get a job in most places is absolutely ridiculous. Because I know that, ultimately, that piece of paper doesn't say anything about how qualified I am for a certain job. Why spend two years worth of time and money relearning things that I learned (and everyone should have learned) in high school?

Barring major-specific courses, like calculus and physics for a science-based degree, or advanced composition and literature for an English major, most of the time spent "earning" a degree is utterly wasted. What good is statistics going to do me as an aspiring actor/animal caretaker? How does understanding the molecular structure of a condor help me to explain why they're endangered and in need of our protection? Does knowing what types of weapons were used in the revolutionary war make me a better actor or vocalist?

Because I think it would be important, I might opt to take a public speaking class, to improve my ability to speak in front of groups of people. But honestly? What good are most of these classes actually doing for me?

As an aside, I graduated from high school wanting to get a college degree. Both of my parents did (though my dad only got an associates), and my older sister was well into her college degree by that point. I felt like it was the thing to do. I was smart, so I got scholarships. College was the only route, right?

Since then, I have become less and less sure that college was the right route for me to take. Maybe I would've been better off serving a few years in the military so I could attend for free sometime down the road. Maybe I should've found myself a smaller job to establish myself financially before accruing thousands of dollars in debt, trying to "make it" in school. As it turns out, I'm a smart kid, but I'm probably the worst student imaginable.

After a semester and a half of working myself to the bone, I shut down. My first semester was average. I failed a class because I got behind early on and was never able to get caught back up. But the rest of my classes were okay. I got a C or two, a few B's, and a few A's. Second semester started off much the same way. Was failing one class, but had pretty solid A's in my acting classes, and mostly B's in my others. But about 3 weeks before the end of the semester, I dropped into the most depressive state I've ever experienced in my life. I didn't work. I stopped going to classes. I barely slept, and I only left my room to eat and go to the bathroom. I'd never felt so out of sync with the world before, and it was awful.

My A's dropped to D's (though, as they were major-specific requirements, I needed a C or higher to actually pass them), and everything else dropped to F's. Obviously, I ended up on academic probation. If I didn't shape up, I would lose my primary scholarship, and therefore my ability to keep attending. I decided I'd give it another shot, because I really, truly wanted to make it work out. First few weeks were okay. I was going to all my classes, but I still felt incredibly lethargic about how much of my life I was going to waste on everything. It didn't take long before I dropped into a similar state as the semester before. The only difference being that instead of locking myself in my room, I attached myself to my friends as often as possible. They had been the only thing keeping me sane during those first few weeks anyway.

So I flunked out. I now owe them several thousand dollars in loans, and as most of my credits from the first semester were music classes, I have less than 10 credits towards a major. Was it worth it? I really don't think it was. Some people just aren't cut out for college. No one would argue that it doesn't have the potential to be a really fun experience; I met some of my best friends while there, and I don't regret that one bit. But at what cost? I spent a year and a half stressing myself out to a point of depression I never thought I would sink to, and now I'm in debt with no real way to pay it off.

I'm currently taking two classes at Burlington County College and working part time at an ice cream shop down the street.

What am I trying to say in all this? I don't know. But one thing I do know is that it isn't a matter that can be simplified to "You have an opportunity. You should take advantage of it." I've stretched myself to the limits of my sanity trying to make my opportunity work, and it didn't turn out hunky-dory in the end. I'd like to think that someday I'll be able to look back on my current self and laugh about how silly this whole ordeal is, but currently, it's kinda hard to be optimistic.

God... I'm reduced to writing emo rants about my life. What is this world coming to? -.-

Dubiousity · Post by **Dubiousity** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:33 pm

Well uhhh, I'm sorry to hear that...

Post by **Dissension** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:38 pm

Dear The Captain,

I love your avatar. It is the best.

Sincerely,

Dissension

Psykeout · Post by **Psykeout** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:39 pm

What who's that

Dubiousity wrote:guess who's back with a brand new text color

look it's this guy again.

KJOokami wrote:quite a long quote

Man that bites pretty hard.

CaptainPea · Post by **CaptainPea** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:48 pm

Psykeout wrote:I hate avatars, I hate king.
|:(

Why would you say that

Dissension wrote:Dear The Captain,

I love your avatar. It is the best.

Sincerely,

Dissension

Man bro you messed up my big entrance that's not kool

KJOokami wrote:No no no, I meant in-show consistency. If the zombies act a certain way at one point, they should act that way consistently as the show progresses. Unless the point is to show a change in their behavior over the course of time, which it isn't in The Walking Dead, then they should always act a certain way. It doesn't matter quite so much how they act to begin with, just so long as they actually stay that way, and don't just flip-flop on how fast they can move, how often they move, in the way they move, etc.

You'd hate the Back to the Future series

(Not really. But it's not exactly consistent about the mechanics of time-travel.) I usually like stories to stay internally consistent, but for some reason my favorite ones refuse to.

Dissension wrote:Self-control is important!

Self Control

Post by **Sleet** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:49 pm

Whatever happened to liking to learn things for their own sake? I love learning stuff, such as all the music classes I take that will get me nowhere in life.

Dubiousity · Post by **Dubiousity** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:58 pm

Psykeout wrote:What who's that
Dubiousity wrote:guess who's back with a brand new text color
look it's this guy again.
KJOokami wrote:quite a long quote
Man that bites pretty hard.

I never said that...

Psykeout · Post by **Psykeout** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:01 pm

shush yes you did

Sleet wrote:Whatever happened to liking to learn things for their own sake? I love learning stuff, such as all the music classes I take that will get me nowhere in life.

The system doesn't like that.
But that's actually all I do! The only "classes" I take are Art classes and something that boarders on a Philosophy/theology/spirituality class.

CaptainPea wrote:
Psykeout wrote:I hate avatars, I hate king.
|:(
Why would you say that

Because there's not enough you in my life.

KJOokami · Post by **KJOokami** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:02 pm

That whole mass of words was supposed to be a response of sorts to what Sleet and Dubiousity were saying about how they didn't understand why people don't just "take advantage of the opportunity" of going to college.

The main point I think I was trying to get at is that the situation isn't as black-and-white as they were making it out to be. There's often (as in my case) a lot of deeper and more complicated problems than just sucking it up and being a good college student. A lot of people try their best to do it for the sake of "education", but that isn't always enough. College isn't for everybody. And not everyone can handle it right out of high school.

@Sleet: I'm totally with you on that. I love to learn things too. But I'd rather have a choice in the matter. For college, all of these other classes are mandatory for graduation.

If I could choose, I'd probably take a science class or two on the side because I'm interested in some of the more intimate details of how the universe works. If I could choose, I'd probably take a class on logic, because I find it interesting. I'd take some psychology classes. I'd take piano or guitar lessons. I'd take a creative writing class.

But that's just it. I can't make those choices because I'm too busy taking classes that don't matter to my future, and aren't relevant to my interests, simply to check them off the list of "requirements". And that drives me insane. There are SO MANY different classes I'd like to take, but I don't have the money to stray from what is required for a degree. And that's a problem.

Post by **Sleet** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:12 pm

You usually have plenty of time for extra classes if you're willing to take extra classes. I'm interested in so many things, I ended up taking 18 credit hours (the maximum that doesn't cost extra) virtually every semester, despite only needing like 12 in order to graduate. You really can fit in things you find interesting if you're willing to do extra work.

KJOokami · Post by **KJOokami** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:16 pm

Sleet wrote:You usually have plenty of time for extra classes if you're willing to take extra classes. I'm interested in so many things, I ended up taking 18 credit hours (the maximum that doesn't cost extra) virtually every semester, despite only needing like 12 in order to graduate. You really can fit in things you find interesting if you're willing to do extra work.

I guess you missed the part about the mental breakdown?

Not everyone can handle that kind of workload, Sleet. A lot of people simply don't have the mental fortitude to handle the bare minimum required to attend the average 4-year college, much less add in the things they'd actually like to do.

Psykeout · Post by **Psykeout** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:19 pm

Sleet wrote:You really can fit in things you find interesting if you're willing to do extra work.

Ok you have really got to stop making generalizations based on your personal experiences and thought processes. YOU can fit these things. that doesn't mean everyone can.

Post by **Sleet** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:21 pm

I was referring to without costing more money, which was what I thought the issue I was addressing was. If someone expresses interest in taking more classes, I imagined they'd want to take more classes if they could. That's where my comment came from.

CaptainPea · Post by **CaptainPea** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:26 pm

Sleet wrote:Whatever happened to liking to learn things for their own sake? I love learning stuff, such as all the music classes I take that will get me nowhere in life.

pssh, who learns anymore?
*jumps on skateboard while texting and driving and eating hotdogs*

KJ's got a point in that people don't learn well at all when they feel like they're only in a class to please somebody else. Even in classes like math that don't personally interest me much at all, there's still personal gain in that it's a good way to improve (and show to schools) your critical thinking.

In middle school one year, for some reason there was a huge disconnect between the classes that the school put on the schedule and the amount of students signed up for them. Since they had put it on the list without very many students interested, a bunch of kids got put in calligraphy for no reason.

KJOokami · Post by **KJOokami** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:29 pm

We were talking about taking classes you like versus classes you don't care about, but that are mandatory anyway. The problem is making X, Y, and Z classes a requirement for a degree that has nothing to do with those classes.

As far as I'm concerned, if someone wants to take classes outside of one's major, then they should be allowed and encouraged to. But when people don't have the time (or the mental fortitude to handle making time) to take those extra courses they are interested in due to being constrained physically or mentally by classes that have no real bearing on their major of choice, there is a very real problem with the system.

Post by **Sleet** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:35 pm

A lot of schools (at least mine) mandate electives for majors. I'm a biomedical engineering major and I couldn't take all math, science and engineering classes if I tried. I had to take my choice from other fields as well.

Dubiousity · Post by **Dubiousity** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:38 pm

KJ, there's a difference between you, who worked hard and put forth the effort, and people who put absolutely NO effort at all towards their post highschool education.

If someone's parents pay their own money for their child to take classes, why waste it by not doing work or not showing up at all?

KJOokami · Post by **KJOokami** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:48 pm

My initial concern was with this statement:

Dubiousity wrote:Not everyone can go to college, why not take advantage of the opportunity?

and the ones surrounding it, which seemed to me to be eliminating the possibility of those who do work hard, yet still end up failing for one reason or another. Hence, my emotionally charged mini-tirade several posts back. Just because someone flunks out of a class, or ends up doing poorly in college, doesn't mean you can automatically label them as simply "not taking advantage of an opportunity".

Post by **Dissension** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:17 pm

Sleet wrote:You usually have plenty of time for extra classes if you're willing to take extra classes. I'm interested in so many things, I ended up taking 18 credit hours (the maximum that doesn't cost extra) virtually every semester, despite only needing like 12 in order to graduate. You really can fit in things you find interesting if you're willing to do extra work.

Where I went to college, it didn't cost the same amount to take 12 and 18 hours. 18 hours would be enough to have bankrupted my family and my education was paid for primarily by the Federal and state governments. Additionally, 18 hours was considered a "full load" and taking more required written approval from the vice president of academic services. You could not take more than 21 hours per semester period due to concerns about physical and mental well-being.

Rook · Post by **Rook** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:22 pm

@KJOokami

... Ouch. My sincerest sympathies KjOokami. And I thought high school was tough :/
But my goodness, from what you've described, I am sincerely frightened for your future and mine.

I hope that everything works out for you in the end, and I'm very sorry to hear about your current situation.

KJOokami needs a hug guys! *hugs KjOokami*

The Grey Wolverine · Post by **The Grey Wolverine** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:28 pm

I'm not going to collage.

Dubiousity · Post by **Dubiousity** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:32 pm

KJOokami wrote:My initial concern was with this statement:

Dubiousity wrote:Not everyone can go to college, why not take advantage of the opportunity?
and the ones surrounding it, which seemed to me to be eliminating the possibility of those who do work hard, yet still end up failing for one reason or another. Hence, my emotionally charged mini-tirade several posts back. Just because someone flunks out of a class, or ends up doing poorly in college, doesn't mean you can automatically label them as simply "not taking advantage of an opportunity".

I was referring to Diss' post, mainly the part where he said that of the students who got F's, some don't do any work while the others pretty much never show up.

It wasn't about doing poorly, it was about doing NOTHING AT ALL. I'm well aware that people sometimes have trouble learning things, but as long as they're trying I don't see the fault in it. I do see fault in putting zero effort into your education however.

Post by **Dissension** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:32 pm

The Grey Wolverine wrote:I'm not going to collage.

That's at your discretion, of course, but do you think you'll attend college?

Post by **Sleet** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:36 pm

Dissension wrote:
Sleet wrote:You usually have plenty of time for extra classes if you're willing to take extra classes. I'm interested in so many things, I ended up taking 18 credit hours (the maximum that doesn't cost extra) virtually every semester, despite only needing like 12 in order to graduate. You really can fit in things you find interesting if you're willing to do extra work.
Where I went to college, it didn't cost the same amount to take 12 and 18 hours. 18 hours would be enough to have bankrupted my family and my education was paid for primarily by the Federal and state governments. Additionally, 18 hours was considered a "full load" and taking more required written approval from the vice president of academic services. You could not take more than 21 hours per semester period due to concerns about physical and mental well-being.

Well that's dumb of them! Our school policy:

1-11 credit hours: You are classified as a part-time student
12-18 credit hours: You are classified as a full-time student and qualify for anything that requires it
19+ credit hours: You are classified as a full-time student but have to pay an additional 1000 dollars per credit hour per semester.

The expectation is to take 15 credit hours every semester but fluctuations are to be expected.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:41 pm

19+ credit hours? That's brutal. o_o
~~How much credits do you take Sleet?~~
lol nevermind 18 oops

Post by **Dissension** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:46 pm

Sleet wrote:1-11 credit hours: You are classified as a part-time student
12-18 credit hours: You are classified as a full-time student and qualify for anything that requires it
19+ credit hours: You are classified as a full-time student but have to pay an additional 1000 dollars per credit hour per semester.

The expectation is to take 15 credit hours every semester but fluctuations are to be expected.

There's a difference in price dependent on hours, though, right? So that, for a base of $375/credit hour, you'd pay $4,500, while paying $6,750 for 18? You don't honestly pay the same per semester if you take 12 and 18 hours at your school, do you?

The Grey Wolverine · Post by **The Grey Wolverine** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:01 pm

Dissension wrote:
The Grey Wolverine wrote:I'm not going to collage.
That's at your discretion, of course, but do you think you'll attend college?

No, I'm learning a trade now, and if I can get in with a union, well, an apprentice makes +$40 an hour, and if I can't get into a decent trade, I go into the Navy, do time there, and go to collage on that, but that is a second option.

Post by **Dissension** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:05 pm

So you may do collage someday, but you won't go to college?

The Dictionary wrote:col·lage/kəˈläZH/
Noun:

1. A form of art in which various materials such as photographs and pieces of paper or fabric are arranged and stuck to a backing.
2. A composition made in this way.

col·lege/ˈkälij/
Noun:

1. An educational institution or establishment, in particular.
2. One providing higher education or specialized professional or vocational training.

sonic id furreh!!! · Post by **sonic id furreh!!!** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:14 pm

is college worth it?

Post by **Sleet** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:16 pm

It depends on what you want to do as a job. For most jobs, yes, it's worth it.

Dissension wrote:
Sleet wrote:1-11 credit hours: You are classified as a part-time student
12-18 credit hours: You are classified as a full-time student and qualify for anything that requires it
19+ credit hours: You are classified as a full-time student but have to pay an additional 1000 dollars per credit hour per semester.

The expectation is to take 15 credit hours every semester but fluctuations are to be expected.
There's a difference in price dependent on hours, though, right? So that, for a base of $375/credit hour, you'd pay $4,500, while paying $6,750 for 18? You don't honestly pay the same per semester if you take 12 and 18 hours at your school, do you?

Yes, you pay the exact same until you get to 19.

Dubiousity · Post by **Dubiousity** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:31 pm

I go to community college, I'm covered by a grant but honestly the classes are super cheap anyway.

The Grey Wolverine · Post by **The Grey Wolverine** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:32 pm

Dissension wrote:So you may do collage someday, but you won't go to college?

I'm confusing myself, collage isn't my first choice, but the Navy plan is my collage plan, more of a backup than anything else. And before you ask, I would go to collage to become a chemist, or a marine biloligist.

Hypergenesis · Post by **Hypergenesis** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:33 pm

Diss is just pointing out you are misspelling college as collage which is a completely different thing.

Post by **Dissension** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:38 pm

Yeah, I'm just being a jerk.

Sleet wrote:Yes, you pay the exact same until you get to 19.

That's crazy. The tuition is flat for part-time and full-time students? 'Cause what you're saying to me is that, for example, part-time students, regardless of course load, pay $2,500, full-time students pay $5,000, and the actual number of credit hours, aside from determining full-time status, has no role in tuition calculation? In that case, yeah, I'd take as close to 18 hours per semester as I could so I wasn't wasting money.

Rook · Post by **Rook** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:45 pm

Wait, are you guys talking about any college in general? I thought that tuition and fees varied between schools. Are you saying that there's one flat, universal fee that is applicable to all colleges?

sonic id furreh!!! · Post by **sonic id furreh!!!** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:45 pm

Dissension wrote:Yeah, I'm just being a jerk.

that's not nice Diss

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:46 pm

I am taking college classes, but I don't consider myself to be a full-fledged college student because I am only taking a few classes from a nearby community college. Since I don't really know what real college life feels like, I'm also kind of worried about my future. If it is as hard as it sounds, then I am screwed.