What is the wolf pack family tree?

[MasterAbsinthe]

I'm trying to work out how the wolf pack family tree looks like, and although some things are very clear, some are more tricky. Specifically I mean the relationship between Miles, uncle Deadeye, cousin Rodney and Natalie. Here is a quick illustration of what I have gathered so far:



This seems to make the most sense because this way "uncle" deadeye is Mile's uncle, and "cousin" Rodney is Mile's cousin. Additionally, cousin Rodney is uncle Deadeye's son because one of his cubs called him "grampa deadeye". But is Natalie Rodney's niece? What exactly has been confirmed? Is there anything I've missed?

[Amazee Dayzee]

I actually made a family tree for them a few years ago before more of their relationships were explained and we figured out how everybody had fit within the family tree. Keep in mind that this is very old. It's from 2015 so it probably is out of date. It also has North Star's old name instead of his current one.

[MasterAbsinthe]

I actually made a family tree for them a few years ago before more of their relationships were explained and we figured out how everybody had fit within the family tree. Keep in mind that this is very old. It's from 2015 so it probably is out of date. It also has North Star's old name instead of his current one.

Very interesting. What proof do we have that Natalie is Rodney's sister? The wiki page for the wolf pack says she's Mile's niece, which of course can't be true because the Daryl's don't have kids. But can Natalie be Rodney's niece? Also, where did we find out that poncho and FFD Jack are brothers?

As far as I can tell, the only reason that we can know that Deadeye, Rodney, and Natalie are closely related is the fact that they are the only ones with brown-ish fur. And also Jack and Poncho who have the same blue-ish tint compared to the other's.

In call o' th' wild, during the flashback, Miles says to Gale "Natalie's mom and that car--" implying that Natalie's mom got run over. The way that Miles refers to Natalie's mother in front of Gale implies to me that Natalie's mother was NOT uncle Deadeye's mate, because then Gale would know her by name (since she's a family friend) and Mile's would refer to her by her name. My money is on the fact that Natalie is Rodney's niece, meaning that Rodney had a brother/sister who then had Natalie.

Also, if we go to headcanon territory, why does Natalie seem to hate romance? She's always looking annoyed whenever she sees Rodney and Snow cuddling or when she's at King and Bailey's wedding, why though? I believe that Rodney had a sister who fell in love with some handsome wolf, who got her pregnant and then left her to raise Natalie. And THEN her mother is run over by a car. And now she has no parents. *mic drop*



UPDATE: Natalie can't be Mile's cousin (if she's rodney's sister), because she calls him "Uncle Miles".



She's technically Mile's "first cousin once removed", but you just call those niece/nephew. So the simplest answer is that Rodney has or had a sibling who is Natalie's parent.

[Amazee Dayzee]

As I have said, this family tree is outdated but some of the familial relationships on it still do match. I did some guesswork on some of them but back in 2015 this is what I had came up with when I did it. Because at that time Natalie's mother wasn't mentioned, I just assumed she was Rodney's sister. Now that we have new information that has since been revealed in the comic, we know that is most likely not true. But back then we had no information about how Natalie was related and because she was in the same strip as Rodney and Snow that is what I chose. As for Natalie being Miles's niece, it could be very plausible that either Miles or Lucretia have a sibling who is her parent. But since you pointed out that Deadeye, Rodney and Natalie have the same fur color and Miles brought up Natalie's mother, I think now most likely that Natalie's mother was Rodney's older sister.

[MasterAbsinthe]

Forget the past, do we know if Jack and Poncho are brothers and if so, why we know that?

Here is the full family tree as far as I can tell, with the red lines representing relationships that I haven't seen confirmed yet.

[Amazee Dayzee]

You can't forget the past because that is how I put the family tree together and as I said it was completely outdated but it does have a lot of the same information and the only thing it looked like has changed is that Natalie is Rodney's niece instead of her sister. So no, the past for the most part is fine.

As for Jack and Poncho, I'm not sure if it was confirmed on the Wikia or in the comic. I know I just didn't make it up.

[D-Rock]

I kinda assumed brothers, too. Feel like with the Call o' the wild arc, whether intentional or not, made it more likely. Just me guessing in the end. When Gale finished patching up Poncho, it was Deadeye who got him, and Jack was with him, too. Could still just be a best buddy.

[Champion Wallace]

When I asked about Poncho and Jack being brothers in the previous topic about the wolf family tree the response I got was:

They're not.

However, that was before Call o' th' Wild and those two do spend a lot of time together.

[D-Rock]

Must have missed that. Doesn't throw out the possibility that they just hang out a lot.

[Amazee Dayzee]

If that is the case and it was never said in the comics, I must have gotten it from the Wiki then instead and put it in my now outdated tree.

[MasterAbsinthe]

When I asked about Poncho and Jack being brothers in the previous topic about the wolf family tree the response I got was:

They're not.

However, that was before Call o' th' Wild and those two do spend a lot of time together.

Who is Dissention and why do they have the authority to claim that Jack and Poncho are not brothers? Compared to Mile's side of the family, Jack and Poncho are both smaller and leaner, they both share the same longer muzzle, and they both have slightly blue-green fur which none of the other wolves have. In fact, even their eyes share a similar shade (brown and beige):



Here is Jack's fur more clearly compared to Mile's:

[D-Rock]

Dissension is currently an administrator here on the site and is a friend of Rick's. One thing that should be worth mentioning, I was informed that during one of Rick's streams, Jack was revealed to be half-coyote. This does explain his smaller and leaner build.

[Amazee Dayzee]

Not to mention I think that Diss is actually Rick's right-hand man when it comes to the forum and other than Rick's boyfriend in real life I am actually pretty sure that Diss would be privvy to know some knowledge about the characters and I would believe him because it most likely came from Rick himself. Not to mention that he is an admin here who also carries out the punishments of people who break the rules.

Oh and if Jack is half-Coyote, then there is no way he can be Poncho's brother even if we didn't know that before Rick through Diss said it. Poncho is not in anyway half-Coyote. I now just remembered when I did the family tree originally, I got it from the Wikia that they were brothers.

[CunningFox]

I've wondered if Poncho is Natalie's brother, since they both seem to be younger than the rest of the pack [apart from the cubs, obviously].

[Champion Wallace]

One thing that should be worth mentioning, I was informed that during one of Rick's streams, Jack was revealed to be half-coyote. This does explain his smaller and leaner build.

If you go by what's explicit in the comic, Jack is only related to Deadeye by marriage (twice), but those two together before Jack was at mating age in Misty Watercolor Memories signaled to me there was something more relating them. However, if Jack is a coywolf that means he can't be descended from Deadeye without extra baggage. Either at minimum Rodney's cubs would be 1/4 coyote or Deadeye had multiple mates. Something else of note is Daryl's coyote cousin. Jack's parents don't have to be the only inter-species pairing, but it would be likely that Jack would have a cousin who's a coyote. Depending on how often there's interbreeding, there's an increased likelihood that Daryl's cousin is through Jack, whatever that means for their relationship to each other. I wish Rick Griffin would post his streams somewhere after the fact.

[Amazee Dayzee]

I just wish Rick would post a comprehensive family tree of the wolf pack so we can have all of our questions answered. LOL

[MasterAbsinthe]

I just wish Rick would post a comprehensive family tree of the wolf pack so we can have all of our questions answered. LOL

That would take the fun out of guessing

Oh and if Jack is half-Coyote, then there is no way he can be Poncho's brother even if we didn't know that before Rick through Diss said it. Poncho is not in anyway half-Coyote.

Poncho can still be part coyote, we don't know if he's 100% wolf. Again, he shares alot of similarities with Jack, so they could still be related somehow.

I've wondered if Poncho is Natalie's brother, since they both seem to be younger than the rest of the pack [apart from the cubs, obviously].

I think the color of their fur is enough to prove that Natalie and Poncho are not related, since Natalie, Rodney, and Deadeye all have brown fur while Poncho and Jack have blue-green fur.

If you go by what's explicit in the comic, Jack is only related to Deadeye by marriage (twice), but those two together before Jack was at mating age in Misty Watercolor Memories signaled to me there was something more relating them.

We don't know if "Misty Watercolor Memories" happened before Jack's mating age. In this comic he looks just as mature as in the present (compared to poncho who looks like a cub), and he was already together with Elaine (for at least two years) before moving into Babylon Gardens. He could be older than you think. That flashback could also have taken place right before they moved out of the forest, at which point Jack would've been a part of the Pack, befriended Poncho and accompanied him from Gale's den together with Deadeye.

Considering that, could Jack be Poncho's father?? It doesn't look like Jack and Poncho have anything other than friendship, let alone a dad-son relationship, and Elaine has never shown any affection towards poncho. Poncho could be a result of Jack's previous mate... Now THIS is what I call headcannon.

[Amazee Dayzee]

That WOULD be a really cool idea about their relationship but I'm pretty sure that something would have been said by now if that was the case.

Maybe Jack's previous mate before leaving gave cub Poncho to Deadeye and because he doesn't talk for some reason, there was no way to tell him Poncho was his son and he was the only one that knew about it so the wolf pack just took him in as a stray. Its a bit of a stretch but headcanon's usually are.

[D-Rock]

Huh, most I would have said (had it not been said that they're not brothers), Jack is Deadeye's son from a coyote mate who died. Deadeye then took a wolf mate and had Poncho.

Alas, canon says otherwise.

[Amazee Dayzee]

Well we know Jack is related to Deadeye twice through marriage but we don't know if Poncho is related to anybody in the current pack. He could have just been taken in instead of being related and Deadeye found him and sort of adopted him as a surrogate son.

Though Rick confirmed that Poncho and Jack weren't brothers. Not that they weren't related so they still could be. Since Poncho is a bit younger than Jack, I would say that they could be cousins from Jack's wolf parent. The coyote cousin of Daryl (and OD and Miles) could be related to Jack too but from his coyote parent.

[rickgriffin]

Though Rick confirmed that Poncho and Jack weren't brothers.

No I didn't.

I said that Jack was half-coyote. How would that imply that Poncho ISN'T?

[D-Rock]

Oh.

Well, seems a misunderstanding occurred.

[Champion Wallace]

If that is the case and it was never said in the comics, I must have gotten it from the Wiki then instead and put it in my now outdated tree.

You did not get it from the wiki (well, you might have, but the wiki didn't make it up). On the old site, the first three strips of Jack of One Trade stated the relation for a wolf that was previously only in the background. The one for Cleaning Up states "Poncho is Jack’s younger brother.". I know Dissention writes the link texts and they are no more canon than a post you or I would make, but these are separate from the link texts so I'm not sure if it is by Rick Griffin or Dissention.

Edit: Regardless, Rick Griffin's last post is rather indicative.

[MasterAbsinthe]

Though Rick confirmed that Poncho and Jack weren't brothers.

No I didn't.

I said that Jack was half-coyote. How would that imply that Poncho ISN'T?

So I guess we can't trust Dissention without proof.



You're telling me this comes straight from Rick Griffin's mouth? No ifs or buts about it, just a 100% trustworthy statement?
This is great! Poncho and Jack are brothers, and assuming they're not half-brothers, Poncho is also half-coyote. I told you guys they were WAY to similar to not be literal brothers

[Dissension]

When I asked about Poncho and Jack being brothers in the previous topic about the wolf family tree the response I got was:

They're not.

However, that was before Call o' th' Wild and those two do spend a lot of time together.

I never answered whether they were brothers. You asked where those statements were found in the comic. I said they weren't.

Previously, people have mentioned that Jack and Poncho are brothers and that Jack has an alleged coyote cousin, but I don't remember either being stated in the comic. Could someone please refresh me as to where those are.

They're not.

Who is Dissention and why do they have the authority to claim that Jack and Poncho are not brothers?

Hi, I'm diss. I never made that claim.

So I guess we can't trust Dissention without proof.



You're telling me this comes straight from Rick Griffin's mouth? No ifs or buts about it, just a 100% trustworthy statement?
This is great! Poncho and Jack are brothers, and assuming they're not half-brothers, Poncho is also half-coyote. I told you guys they were WAY to similar to not be literal brothers 8-)

I don't think people misrepresenting what I said really counts toward untrustworthiness, but I do feel as though an accusation of untrustworthiness is not particularly civil or respectful.

[MasterAbsinthe]

Who is Dissention and why do they have the authority to claim that Jack and Poncho are not brothers?

Hi, I'm diss. I never made that claim.

So I guess we can't trust Dissention without proof.

I don't think people misrepresenting what I said really counts toward untrustworthiness, but I do feel as though an accusation of untrustworthiness is not particularly civil or respectful.

I'm sorry I didn't give you the benefit of the doubt, it was blunt of me to immediately assume you were untrustworthy. I tend to assume the worst in people...

My stance on Rodney's side of the family is Rodney is Deadeye's son and Natalie is Snow and Rodney's first daughter. Deadeye, Rodney and Natalie all share the unusual (for Mile's pack) brown coat. Based on Natalie's appearance I'd say she looks younger then Miles, but older then his cubs. Her personality is like an edgy teenager (in development, not years-old because of the messy animal-year/human-year conversion). This relationship would explain why Natalie is so angry in This Was About Christmas?; She doesn't want her parents to embarrass her by acting so mushy in front of everyone else.

Sorry to quote you on the previous wolf pack topic, but I thought this was interesting to bring up. Rodney could definitely be Natalie's father, but then she'd have to be from Rodney's previous mate since we found out in "Breath o' th' Wild" that Natalie's mother is dead. This would give Natalie even more reason to look angry and annoyed at Snow and Rodney's relationship maybe because she doesn't like how Rodney is showing Snow the same affection he showed her mother, or maybe she thinks Rodney didn't love her mother because he took a new mate so fast. This doesn't explain why Natalie was angry while Tarot is catching Bailey's bouquet at the wedding though. This makes me feel like she's just annoyed about romance in general because she's an edgy teen.


On another note, notice anything strange with Rodney and Snow's cubs?


They have floppy ears! Is it just because they're tiny cubs? Wolf cubs don't have floppy ears, and Mile's cubs have never had floppy ears...
Hold on to your socks because I think Snow is actually a dog! Or maybe half-dog? Mark my words...

[D-Rock]

I believe a lot of canids are born with floppy ears. Depending on species or breed, they’ll straighten out. Animals seem to mature more slowly in the HP world. We never saw Miles’ cubs as infants or toddlers.

[MasterAbsinthe]

I believe a lot of canids are born with floppy ears. Depending on species or breed, they’ll straighten out. Animals seem to mature more slowly in the HP world. We never saw Miles’ cubs as infants or toddlers.

I'll accept that... for now.

[Amazee Dayzee]

I'm willing to trust the mods a bit more than any other theory because I always thought (not sure if I am right) that they would be privy to info from Rick. Or at least get it from Diss who I also assume (not saying its correct) that he and Rick are close.

[D-Rock]

I recall people freaking out over King's pups having floppy ears, too. It's just how they're born.

[Obbl]

I mean, a little google-fu would clear this right up: https://wolf.org/wolf-info/basic-wolf-i ... velopment/
Wolf pups are born with completely closed ears and they are floppy until about the 4th week. I'd put Rodney's cubs at about that stage of development (though not that age) personally, but I also don't expect Rick to be intimately familiar with the development of wolf ears, so I allow some leeway

[Amazee Dayzee]

Hey just as long as he has a clear idea of the family tree and he won't forget it and maybe fine tune it here and there, I'm happy.

[MasterAbsinthe]

On another note, does anyone know why the wolves wear golden coins around their necks?

[trekkie]

I think the coins might be collars since they are or were pets of the Miltons.

[Amazee Dayzee]

I was thinking that the coins were to show that they were a part of the ECP when Keene started it but then phased out the coins over time especially once they all had to get jobs.

[NHWestoN]

Security badges? "we're-not-ferals" tokens? Bus change?

[Amazee Dayzee]

The closest answer we might get is that they are to show that they aren't/weren't ferals but I can't remember if they still have them in the present.

[Obbl]

It has definitely been explained that it is their identification, probably by Rick in a note under the comic (or the comments when those were still a thing) at some point in the past. Miles had a card ID in their introduction arc, but the coins are probably a lot easier to keep on them at all times

[MasterAbsinthe]

Wow, I was wracking my brain trying to figure out if wearing golden coins was some kind of symbol in the ancient roman empire or something like that and I didn't even consider if they were simply ID tags they only wear them when walking around in public too! Goes to show how shortsighted you can be.

The closest answer we might get is that they are to show that they aren't/weren't ferals but I can't remember if they still have them in the present.

Natalie is wearing it when shes going to town with Sasha
Miles is wearing it when visiting Gale
In both occasions they are or are planning to go out in public where they need identification.