Discussion: Video Games

KJOokami · Post by **KJOokami** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:47 am

The main problem with it is that it created a much larger skill gap between "average" and "good" players than was ever intended for the game. The franchise was never intended to be an ultra competitive one.

It also "broke" certain characters in terms of run speed. Run speed was always a part of the game in order to balance out the powerhouse characters and give lighter, quicker characters some advantage. But with wave dashing, you could literally make Ganondorf (the slowest character in the game) move just as quickly as the fastest characters on a straightaway.

It just didn't make sense to keep it in the game because it was obvious that it didn't belong there. Which is why they fixed it in Brawl.

Buckdida · Post by **Buckdida** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:06 pm

In regards to "Wavedashing"

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... ingFunGuys
And "Scrub" (if you look up that page on TV Tropes, be warned that the title image for the page contains a swear)

This argument comes up all the time. Casual vs. competitive. And it never goes anywhere nice, lemme tell you.

Some players have fun by winning. Some players have fun by messing around and goofing off. Some players get annoyed by people not taking the game seriously, and some players get annoyed by people taking the game too seriously.

Honestly, you can have fun either way- by rush of amazing skill...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7cW2nMf ... re=related

Or just by messing around.
(Look up "How to Win at Street Fighter 4 Forever" by "EvilDaedalus". There is a single swear in the last second of the video, but is otherwise clean and very entertaining.)

Play how you like! Just... don't cross the streams, and don't tell others how to play. It gets nowhere.

... Unless someone is using a literal game breaker. You know, the things banned in Tournaments, because they're THAT unfair. Then you can complain.

In addition, "Canceling" is considered a mainstay in MANY games as a top-tier skill- not just fighting games or SSB- and is used often enough to the point where developers leave it in the game as a skill for players to learn. However, on the flip side of the coin, such things are still considered an exploit- abusing the game mechanics to produce an unintended effect- and can be patched out or fixed by the game developers at any time. The latter was the case for SSB, and thus, it was taken out in Brawl. In the former case, (if I'm not mistaken) it remains as a technical skill that's noted by the game in fighters such as "BlazeBlue."

Post by **Sleet** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:12 pm

I don't really think wavedashing unsettles the skill levels; a good player who wavedashes would still beat the pants off an average player, even if they don't wavedash. Wavedashing is not as serious of an exploit as Mario Kart snaking (where you literally can't beat a half-competent snaker without snaking or ridiculous luck with items), but I'm not a fan of it.

For what it's worth, I like playing SSB competitively as well as casually. I just wish Brawl didn't cut down on some legitimate things like combo potential and not-tripping when it took out wavedashing. Maybe Super Smash Bros.: Altercation will find a good middle point.

The Grey Wolverine · Post by **The Grey Wolverine** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:51 pm

What really got to me about Brawl was that the roster didn't feel, I don't know, as complete, should I say? I mean, I used Snake most of the time, or Metaknight, but I really felt like the roster in Melee was more rounded, maybe it was just me but I really think it was more balanced before, or it could be that the friends I play against only use Lucas or that other psychic kid.

Post by **Sleet** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:19 pm

Well Meta Knight is significantly better than the other characters, at least one a high level of play; he's the only banned character from competitive Brawl. Keep in mind more characters are harder to balance properly, so there's going to be more of a chance of really good or really bad characters. But I think every character is pretty competitive in an informal setting. It's not like some characters are downright worthless, they just can't cut it for competitive one-on-one play.

exranio · Post by **exranio** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:40 pm

Normally I would be offended by the implications of that link, but I will not deny that I take just about everygame where you play against others as a competative experience. From Mario Party to Street Fighter I am in it to beat you. I'm there to have fun to I don't try to be annoying about it, but I take everything competitively.

Personally I hate the lack of items in Smash Bros. Tournies. While relience on items can definatly be seen as a lack of skill, I see the fear of them as an even bigger sign of lack of skill.

Post by **Sleet** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:47 pm

The difference between a competitive player and a Stop Having Fun Guy is that a SHFG forces the competitive mindset on anyone they play with and get mad when they don't cooperate. Likewise, a scrub forces a casual mindset on anyone they play with in the same way, and is not the same thing as just any casual player.

Items use skill, but the problem is they can be very powerful, and the places they spawn can introduce a big element of chance to tight matches.

IceKitsune · Post by **IceKitsune** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:08 pm

I used to be pro no items/some stages but then I remember that people (and I actually tried to) play games like Tetris and other puzzle games competitively and those are just as random as items and stages if not more so. So other then maybe items that are clearly over powered or stages that are blatantly unfair to a character I no longer want items or stages banned.

Post by **Sleet** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:12 pm

I love items and (most) stages but that's because I like Super Smash Bros. as a party game. When I decide to play someone competitively, I prefer simple stages and no items.

KJOokami · Post by **KJOokami** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:36 pm

I only like items in SSB when I'm playing with less experienced players because it evens the battles and makes it more fun for them. But when I'm playing with people who are closer to my skill level, then I dislike them because half the time it turns into a toss-up to whoever gets the better items in the match.

Especially Smash Balls. I enjoyed seeing each character's final once or twice; but after that, they just annoyed me. Some of them can actually just make a match more chaotic, which can be fun, but a lot of them are basically just: activate, all the other players die. And that's just stupid.

Post by **Sleet** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:49 pm

I like Smash Balls in theory. The issue I have with them is that some Final Smashes are so much more powerful than others. When I play Lucario, I typically just go for Smash Balls to keep other people from getting them, since most of my friends know how to dodge his Final Smash. So that puts me at a significant disadvantage. When I play Wolf, on the other hand, I typically clean house every time I get a Smash Ball, and sometimes even manage to KO the same player twice with it on the right stage and with enough luck. The Final Smashes are so poorly balanced.

The Grey Wolverine · Post by **The Grey Wolverine** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:55 pm

I think Snake has one of the worst in the game, its so easy to dodge, and even if it hits, it doesn't seem to do much of anything.

Post by **Sleet** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:09 pm

His can be pretty good in more chaotic games with four players and stages with obstacles. I can easily roll away from grenades on my own, but when stuff gets in the way, it gets hard. And then when you get hit, it's easier to get hit again.

KJOokami · Post by **KJOokami** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:43 am

That's actually one of the reason's I find Snake's to be one of the best. Because it's not just an "I Win" button the way many of them are. It falls under that category I mentioned of 'making things more chaotic'. I'm also okay with the single-target ones and the ones that actually require you to aim. Like, if someone manages to KO all three of the other players with Zelda/Shiek's arrow, I'd pat them on the back and say, "Nice shot." But when someone activates Super Sonic and just derps all over the stage until every one dies, I can't help but feel a little irritated.

FlintTheSquirrel · Post by **FlintTheSquirrel** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:13 am

I do not like playing competitive on that all to much, or at least online. I often won the Online matches I was in at the time a couple years ago, but the time limit and the teaming was not all to fun.

I do not use some cheep strategy or anything when I play games like that, I just do what comes to mind next.

I played:
Marth for his quick movement and long reach because of using a sword. My favorite character on there.
Ike for his wreckless brute strength and also having long range. His special is quite fancy.
Ice Climbers for their ability to duel wield and having quite a lot of power as a team.
Pikachu because I like Pikachu.
Lucario for a similar reason, but having decent close combat, though he feels very poor when it comes to hitting things hard.
and Lucas, because I love using his PK Freeze spell while everyone is fighting or approching me.

I wonder if I should stop making lists of everything when I use this topic. .-.

exranio · Post by **exranio** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:30 am

I just want to check. Am I the only one here that can read combo notation? I can read most notation except for smash brothers notation.

A Bang Shishigami corner combo
J4C-J236B-236B-5B-(jc)J5B-J4C-JC-5A-5B-(jc)J5A-J5B-J4C-J4C-JC

The Grey Wolverine · Post by **The Grey Wolverine** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:02 am

What does that mean?

IceKitsune · Post by **IceKitsune** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:05 am

exranio wrote:I just want to check. Am I the only one here that can read combo notation? I can read most notation except for smash brothers notation.

A Bang Shishigami corner combo
J4C-J236B-236B-5B-JC-J5B-J4C-J5C-5A-5B-JC-J5A-J5B-J4C-J4C-J5C

I don't know what J means (Jump maybe?) but the rest of it I can read.

Post by **Sleet** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:18 am

FlintTheSquirrel wrote:I do not like playing competitive on that all to much, or at least online. I often won the Online matches I was in at the time a couple years ago, but the time limit and the teaming was not all to fun.

I do not use some cheep strategy or anything when I play games like that, I just do what comes to mind next.

I played:
Marth for his quick movement and long reach because of using a sword. My favorite character on there.
Ike for his wreckless brute strength and also having long range. His special is quite fancy.
Ice Climbers for their ability to duel wield and having quite a lot of power as a team.
Pikachu because I like Pikachu.
Lucario for a similar reason, but having decent close combat, though he feels very poor when it comes to hitting things hard.
and Lucas, because I love using his PK Freeze spell while everyone is fighting or approching me.

I wonder if I should stop making lists of everything when I use this topic. .-.

Lucario's down-air is a pretty good finisher, as is his down smash if I remember correctly.

exranio · Post by **exranio** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:25 am

Had to fix it I made mistake.
Anyway
the J before an imput means jumping, so the air version of an attack.
(jc) means jump cancel, canceling a move in the air with another jump.
A B C and D are the attack buttons (for games that work on a ABCD system, which is the same as LMHS)
the numbers are the directions for the imput, the work like the number pad on your computer. 4 is back, 1 is down back, 2 is down, 3is down forward 6 is forward and 5 is nuetral. 7,8, and 9 usually don't exist because that would make you jump.
so a move more than one number is a special, and one number is a normal.

KJOokami · Post by **KJOokami** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:21 pm

In Brawl, Wolf was my primary (and best) character, with Squirtle (yeah, I'm pretty bad with Ivysaur and Charizard) as my secondary. And I loved playing with Pikachu and Kirby because they're just really fun characters to play, in my opinion.

Jigglypuff I would use occasionally for the funzies; mostly just to fly around and try to KO someone with her Down + B attack. Even if I got slaughtered, as long as I got one kill with that, I'd consider the match a victory. :p

Post by **Sleet** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:24 pm

The Jiggs was so much better in Melee. I loved her then but she seems too hard to get good contact with now.

KJOokami · Post by **KJOokami** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:33 pm

Oh yeah. She was an absolute powerhouse in Melee. Strong, easily spammable aerials, fast attack interrupts, great finishing smashes, and the ability to come back from any distance unless she was sent straight into the death zone off-screen. Plus, she basically had the aerial equivalent of wave-dashing built into her character.

I think they did go a bit far, but I also think that she needed to be nerfed, honestly.

The Grey Wolverine · Post by **The Grey Wolverine** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:28 pm

Sleet wrote:The Jiggs was so much better in Melee. I loved her then but she seems too hard to get good contact with now.

I actually used Jugglypuff because my friends HATE that Pokemon with a passion, and it was funny because my friend Nick can get really flustered over nothing, and he'd be like, "Dude, why are you using Jigglypuff? She sucks!" so, I played as Jigglypuff, and actually beat him a few times which was hilarious, keep in mind, he plays as Ness and spammed PK thunder ALL OVER THE PLACE! But, when he got annoyed he'd focus more on what annoyed him than anything else. In short, it was fun. Also, in Castle Crashers, pink knight is best.

Okay, so in the interest of seriousness, I am doing "Super Challenge July" What is that? Well, I'm making it up. You have unlimited time to complete it, but it must be started in July. So, allow me to explain more, Super Challenge July for you, this is where you give yourself a gaming challenge that is legitimately difficult, or just plain loooong, like mine, this is to show off your gaming skills, and as a little personal goal. Mine is I am going to start a playthrough of Fallout New Vegas, start to finish Hard Core mode, doing all of the DLC, sidequests, getting the Gun Runner's Arsenal acheivables, hitting level 50, and an independent ending. Also, I will be doing all of the companion quests, including I Forgot to Remember to Forget, if you have done this one, you know hoe annoying it is to complete, and how tedious it is to even start. Will anyone else be doing a challenge?
*edit the sensors block this word, why? http://www.thefreedictionary.com/arsenal

Post by **Sleet** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:13 am

Pokémon Conquest is so hard to find! Why does everyone suddenly want it? D:

exranio · Post by **exranio** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:17 am

I know one guy who was completly enraged by the concept and swore to buy a copy just to destroy it. I still have no idea how this off all things was the last straw.

Post by **Sleet** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:19 am

I don't think Nintendo is harmed by destroying a copy you paid for.

exranio · Post by **exranio** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:27 am

It's made of Nintendium anyway, he's not breaking that anytime soon.

FlintTheSquirrel · Post by **FlintTheSquirrel** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:43 am

I suggest asking the people at Gamestop about the nearest store that holds the game. That's what we had to do to get our copy. Have not really played it much though since I am waiting for my brother to want to play. Not supposed to go ahead of him.

_Stu_ · Post by **_Stu_** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:48 am

Pokemon Conquest's concept is wonderful. Nobunaga's Ambition is wonderful. Pokemons feels good together with those characters. And finally, FINALLY, a pokemon episode where smelly friendship is banned. This is war.

But videogameplus is always slow and i'm still waiting

GameCobra · Post by **GameCobra** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:11 am

I' ma hardcore gamer, but i don't berate other people for what they find fun. if that were the case, i would berate my brother for playing Call of Duty all day, but he likes army games and has friends on there so that's his excuse. =P

But I don't see wavedashing in a game like Super Smash brothers a real big thing, but the game never took me as a game all about crazy combos like other games since your health bar meant you were going to get more floaty as the damage piled on, but it was still fun nonetheless. I just play it for it's awesome character line-up and music

But does it ever suck when you're stuck as a 9th lord on Marvel Vs. Capcom 3... man, i need to have either a god-like internet or study up on She-hulk, Deadpool and Haggar better.

exranio · Post by **exranio** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:52 am

My team is Hsien-Ko, Wright, Vergil

Vergil is simply a god like anchor, and easier to use than Dante (Dante requires Bold Canceling and thats hard stuff)

Hsien-ko on any tier list you look up is registered as the worst character in the game, but thats actually only becuase she has poor movement and low damage out put. First of Anki Ho is an incredibly useful projectile. It arcs and has different arcs based on button, AND it has a bunch of different effects, Multihits, stuns, freezing, burning and others depending on what she throws. Her gong i a projectile that reflects projectiles and makes an amazing assit when enemies get close. She has three anti airs and her Heavies have insane range. The best part is her gold form, WHICH DOESN'T HIT STUN. You can go into that mode and then switch her out making her an UN HAPPY BIRTHDAY-ABLE assist.

Now take her gong assist, combine it with gold mode, add Vergil's rapid slash, and you have the Lawyer Protection program. Making Wright much easier to protect and all you need for Wright's investigation mode is a basic magic series to air magic series combo. (Magic series- hitting from Light to Medium to Heavy, will always combo with any character in any game)

All you need to do is start with hsien-ko, build 2 bars of meter. Go gold mode and then DHC into Wright and you're ready for action.

GameCobra · Post by **GameCobra** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:00 pm

Haven't played in awhile, but i wonder if Deadpool's 4th Wall Crisis could counter that? =P

Another team i started to use was my non-human combo of Firebrand, Amaterasu and good old RR. Granted, i'm god-like with RR in terms of keep-away and setting up traps, but i haven't quite learned how to use Amaterasu and Firebrand except for Ammy's disc combo and her awesome cold star assist, but Firebrand i want to master his flying, and lately i have the tendency to screw that up with my controller, b ut what i really love about this three team band is their hyper combo combination: OTGing with Dark Fire into RR's Gun and Ammy's Thunder.

Post by **Sleet** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:25 pm

I just bought it online. So now I'll get it, but it'll just take a while.

exranio · Post by **exranio** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:58 pm

EVO is soon, July 6th to 8th. I'm thinking of having a Skype group for it. Anyone interested in watching it with me?

The Grey Wolverine · Post by **The Grey Wolverine** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:27 pm

Whats EVO?

exranio · Post by **exranio** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:03 pm

Everysingle time.....
Anyway, EVO is basically the Superbowl of Fighting Game tournaments. Everysingle tournament of the year leads up to this event,
Main Event Tournaments include
Super Street Fighter 4
Mortal Kombat 9
Soul Calibur V
Marvel vs Capcom 3
StreetFighter X Tekken
King of Fighters XIII
and Street Fighter II turbo

Those are the big deal tournaments that will be streamed on the big screen
Side tournaments include BlazBlue, SkullGirls, and probably any other Fighting game you can think of.
And theres a also a small fighting is magic booth.

The Grey Wolverine · Post by **The Grey Wolverine** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:42 pm

Oh, sure, I'd watch that.

DismayWolf · Post by **DismayWolf** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:38 pm

Sleet wrote:Pokémon Conquest is so hard to find! Why does everyone suddenly want it? D:

Because it is one of the few games where you do not travel from town to town to try to earn Gym Badges to fight the pokemon league

_Stu_ · Post by **_Stu_** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:56 am

Just Cause 2 Multiplayer Mod. Oh my God.

Oh, i suggest to buy Lollipop Chainsaw, it's really good and funny, Suda's always a twisted mind and we like him for this