Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

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RootsofOrigin
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by RootsofOrigin »

IceKitsune wrote:How does Curse of the Mysterious Temple sound like he is locked in there? To me it sounds like it will make people afraid of it if anything.
Yeah, I made a bit of a jump there.
But I don't understand how they could be incapable of leaving their temple freely.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by IceKitsune »

RootsofOrigin wrote:
IceKitsune wrote:How does Curse of the Mysterious Temple sound like he is locked in there? To me it sounds like it will make people afraid of it if anything.
Yeah, I made a bit of a jump there.
But I don't understand how they could be incapable of leaving their temple freely.
Rules of the Game they are playing by prevent it.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by RootsofOrigin »

IceKitsune wrote:Rules of the Game they are playing by prevent it.
Where did you find the Rules of the Game?
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by IceKitsune »

RootsofOrigin wrote:
IceKitsune wrote:Rules of the Game they are playing by prevent it.
Where did you find the Rules of the Game?
I'm assuming, as having them start out in the temple (which even Dragon is) would be pointless if they could just leave at anytime.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by RootsofOrigin »

IceKitsune wrote:I'm assuming, as having them start out in the temple (which even Dragon is) would be pointless if they could just leave at anytime.
So in conclusion, we still have only vague ideas because Rick has us in the dark.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by Dissension »

Yes, that's right. = P
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by RandomGeekNamedBrent »

IceKitsune wrote:
RootsofOrigin wrote:
IceKitsune wrote:Because as far as we know Dragons Temple was never moved so Tarot has to be from where ever the two temples where originally since everything we’ve seen says you have to be inside the temple to release Dragon or Pete.
But how can you assume that Tarot was in the temple?
And where does it say that you have to be in the temple in order to release Dragon or Pete?
I’m not saying she is in the temple right at this moment in the strip. Pete needed Grape to go to the temple to release him which has so far been the only way we have seen how they get out, so we can assume that Tarot would need to do that as well then accept being Dragons avatar.
Notice, Zach freed Pete, then he went to try to get King. I think he just needs someone to release him, and if that was a rule for both of them as opposed to being a rule brought on by the curse, then Dragon could have had any follower release her before she went and found an avatar.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by IceKitsune »

RandomGeekNamedBrent wrote: Notice, Zach freed Pete, then he went to try to get King. I think he just needs someone to release him, and if that was a rule for both of them as opposed to being a rule brought on by the curse, then Dragon could have had any follower release her before she went and found an avatar.
But then why in the world couldn't Pete just get one of the woodland animals to free him or Mr. Milton or anyone who lived at that mansion? Why ask Grape (who he clearly wanted to be his Avatar) He didn't ask Zach to do it Zach did it on accident. So to me it still seems like they need their Avatars to free them.

Edit: also remember Zach had been in the temple for a bit before Grape and Peanut showed up and he said that he pressed a button (and then pressed the one that released Pete) Most assumed (my self included) he was talking about the Door opening button but its very possible he was talking about the one that released Pete. He already pressed once before but it didn't work until Grape got there.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by angelusbr »

To quote Dai no Daiboken here: a fair fight must be a fair fight (well this isn't an actual quote of it, but it's the essence of the manga anyway). The dragon just broke the deffinition of the word "duel".
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by copper »

Wow, Dragon came to play, huh?

If the avatar must release the being, then why is Pete free? Yes, he wanted Grape as an avatar, but she was blocked from becoming his, which mean that, in the end, she was not his avatar and should not have been able to free him. I think it really is just anyone who can free the being, but Dragon's curse created an aura that made people afraid to go near it, thereby trapping Pete within.

I think this is a sub game within the larger game, just to decide leader of the party. I don't think it has any bearing or attachment to the larger game, so the difference in goals has no bearing here, other than a source of rivalry...
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by Liam »

Luckily the now useless temple could be repurposed as the first Money Bin.
angelusbr wrote:To quote Dai no Daiboken here: a fair fight must be a fair fight (well this isn't an actual quote of it, but it's the essence of the manga anyway). The dragon just broke the deffinition of the word "duel".
Since duel means fight between two and we don't know all rules yet, I don't see why.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by angelusbr »

Liam wrote:Luckily the now useless temple could be repurposed as the first Money Bin.
angelusbr wrote:To quote Dai no Daiboken here: a fair fight must be a fair fight (well this isn't an actual quote of it, but it's the essence of the manga anyway). The dragon just broke the deffinition of the word "duel".
Since duel means fight between two and we don't know all rules yet, I don't see why.
I always thought that a duel was supposed to be a clash of two people and the best of them would win. Well, some oculd say it was just a a strategy, but I think the dragon just did a low blow and, honestly, I'm starting to dislike her.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by GameCobra »

It's almost hard to tell if she's casting a spell from her temple or not, but if that's her temple on a mountain, that means they were not far from one another when the game initially started. If i were one of them, i would so fortify it with cannons and blow the other one away =3
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by Indagare »

angelusbr wrote:I always thought that a duel was supposed to be a clash of two people and the best of them would win. Well, some oculd say it was just a a strategy, but I think the dragon just did a low blow and, honestly, I'm starting to dislike her.
We're still a bit shaky on how the dual actually works. Given the rules and limits of the game, it's entirely possible that the two players can't fight one another directly but only through various avatars and uses of magic and such. I don't see how what she did is a particularly low blow any more than using a rook as your first move instead of using a pawn.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by Liam »

angelusbr wrote:I always thought that a duel was supposed to be a clash of two people and the best of them would win. Well, some oculd say it was just a a strategy, but I think the dragon just did a low blow and, honestly, I'm starting to dislike her.
If we say a temple is just a tool like a sword or so, this move is nothing different than e.g. Jet Li kicking his opponent's sword out of his hands.

This is something I noticed after watching some Asian martial arts films. We westerners don't like our hero's getting tricky, do we? Apparently a brawn approach is always more powerful, more heroic than a brain approach. The Asian world seems to be cool with ruses, however, probably because they don't see them as inherently dishonorable or cowardly.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by IceKitsune »

copper wrote:Wow, Dragon came to play, huh?

If the avatar must release the being, then why is Pete free? Yes, he wanted Grape as an avatar, but she was blocked from becoming his, which mean that, in the end, she was not his avatar and should not have been able to free him. I think it really is just anyone who can free the being, but Dragon's curse created an aura that made people afraid to go near it, thereby trapping Pete within.

I think this is a sub game within the larger game, just to decide leader of the party. I don't think it has any bearing or attachment to the larger game, so the difference in goals has no bearing here, other than a source of rivalry...
Again if anyone could free him why wait until he contacted Grape? The fear aura (if it even does that, I mean the name sounds like that's what it should do and spell names usually have to do with what the spell actual does) didn't work on Milton or the workers that he would have needed to move it nor did it work on the Woodland Animals. He could have gotten any of them to release him at any time there would have been no need to wait for Grape at all.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by justacritic »

I'm under the impression that "Curse of the Mysterious Temple" was meant to block Pete from regaining mana. He was boasting that he was late entering the game in order to produce a temple unit that has a larger mana pool. Then he was snarking that Spirit Dragon knows nothing about long term gain, then Dragon cursed the temple. Now I don't know if that temple would come fully stocked on mana, but if the curse prevents mana regen then it would have the benefit of making Pete look like a fool like buying a really big wallet but having no way to fill it with money.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by Ratros »

Pete and Dragon argue like brother and sister...or grad school kids with crushes on each other...not that I'm implying anything, just stating an observation.

Anyways, since temples were mentioned, may I ask if anyone has figured out if the temple that is in the ferret's backyard is the same as Pete's, because I remember a bit of walking in the forest to get to that one...and if we're going by the assumption that each divine in the game other than Kitsune has a temple, wouldn't that mean that there would be at least one more?
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by Sleet »

Ratros wrote:Pete and Dragon argue like brother and sister...or grad school kids with crushes on each other...not that I'm implying anything, just stating an observation.

Anyways, since temples were mentioned, may I ask if anyone has figured out if the temple that is in the ferret's backyard is the same as Pete's, because I remember a bit of walking in the forest to get to that one...and if we're going by the assumption that each divine in the game other than Kitsune has a temple, wouldn't that mean that there would be at least one more?
You mean grade school?

My guess is they're not, considering this game evidently involves lots of temples.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by RandomGeekNamedBrent »

I think we've established that "backyard" is being used in the idiomatic sense, meaning "right near our home"
I assume that the woods count as the "backyard"
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by PhoenixAsper »

I would concur with the earlier statements. It's looking more and more like Pete and SD dragged Grape, Sabrina, Tarot, King and possibly Peanut into the middle of a celestial sibling rivalry-thing. -_- Despite, you know, not being siblings.

I'm now suspicious of SD and her motives, and light of recent information, my whole opinion of the higher level of the HP universe has taken something of a downturn. I'm on the side of the mortals.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by Gren »

PhoenixAsper wrote:I would concur with the earlier statements. It's looking more and more like Pete and SD dragged Grape, Sabrina, Tarot, King and possibly Peanut into the middle of a celestial sibling rivalry-thing. -_- Despite, you know, not being siblings.
and don't forget Zach. I don't know, but I imagined that some kind of tag-team battle could happen between this six. Tarot, Sabrina and Peanut from the side of SD, and King, Grape and Zach from the side of Pete. There could be games like shooters (red team vs blue team) or some kind of olimpic games. It could be awesome!
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by IceKitsune »

Wait a minute Why did Pete try and blame Dragon for moving the temple? It was what he wanted. And so Tarots followers are Peanut, Grape, Fido, and Sabrina. And Grape, Peanut and Fido are Dream Sunderer which Pete wanted but couldn't get because of Zach. And Tarot/Dragon pushed everyone into relationships (except for Grape maybe?) to make it even harder for Pete to get them. I have to say this has been the most confused I've been by a strip for a while.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by RandomGeekNamedBrent »

Wait... that kinda brings the Fibrina ship into question. Does she actually love him, or is she just doing what Tarot asked her to do? or did it start as a trick and she fell in love?
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by Nightfirex »

So Pete was getting desperate then, and he was behind in power and avatars, and he had and original class idea but that change as well -- yep no more theory for me.. I got pretty close and I think I know what going to happen when he explain why he trying to use King/Joel. heh and I love the last panel on the end.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by IceKitsune »

RandomGeekNamedBrent wrote:Wait... that kinda brings the Fibrina ship into question. Does she actually love him, or is she just doing what Tarot asked her to do? or did it start as a trick and she fell in love?
And again that Brings Tarot and Peanut into question as well. The Nerds are completely unlikeable at this point to me. I'm done trying to like them, they are all complete Jerks.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by RandomGeekNamedBrent »

Actually, I think Tarot is less suspect somehow, because of this scene
She's a bit too jealous for someone who's stringing him along, especially considering it would have been Dragon telling her to do this.

and I think Sabrina may have done what I said: fallen in love with Fido, making the relationship real.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by IceKitsune »

And actually considering that Sabrina and Max dated I’m throwing Grape and Max into question as well, Its likely Max is a follower of Tarot. Or could have been manipulated by Sabrina to invite Grape to the Yarn Ball so he could get her to date him. You may think I'm stupid but right now I officially trust nothing that had to do with the Nerds.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by RandomGeekNamedBrent »

I wouldn't call Max and Grape into question. Remember that Tarot only got together with Peanut because Grape went with Max instead. She gave her a chance, but she had already fallen for max, at least slightly.

I think if anything, Tarot played matchmaker with Sabrido.

EDIT: Drunken cult-making is now canon.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by IceKitsune »

RandomGeekNamedBrent wrote:I wouldn't call Max and Grape into question. Remember that Tarot only got together with Peanut because Grape went with Max instead. She gave her a chance, but she had already fallen for max, at least slightly.

I think if anything, Tarot played matchmaker with Sabrido.

EDIT: Drunken cult-making is now canon.
You could be right maybe its not, but as Crackles said in the comments Max showing up at the door that night in the rain could easily be a manipulation by Dragon. I really could be wrong but until new evidence comes up I'm sticking with it. And there is the fact that Pete said Dragon had Followers meaning more then one. The only other one that would have mattered would be Max since it got Grape off the table, and Tarot is considered her Avatar not a follower.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by ChewyChewy »

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Best.

Update.

Ever!



Or rather, so far--I hope that there will be better in future....



Now I'm wondering who Pete might choose for his avatar, or even if he'll get the chance.... All I can say is KING will probably not become Pete's avatar whatever he chooses with regard to species.... I'm now excited about where this is going--I actually looked back over most of the arcs on this topic that we've already seen! :D
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by RootsofOrigin »

Things are coming together. And I'm loving it.

Key words
Dreams (in a nutshell, The Grove and probably other people and animals over the years)
Pleas (from one desperate little griffin)
Promised the equivocation of human and animalkind (Pete basically tried to fool people with a false promise)
One human mortal (Mr. Henry Milton, who was obsessed with human-animal reconcilitation, took the bait)
Five thousand year headstart (now we have an idea of when this duel began)
Dragon's Sovereign Spiritist (aka Tarot)
Dream Sunderer (Peanut, Grape, and surprisingly Fido)
Needs enormous quantities of either purity or imagination (purity medal goes to Peanut and Fido, but imagination to Peanut and Grape)
Cannot be "in love" with anyone (explains why Pete couldn't pick anyone from his fantasy DS team)
Dragon interposed with her own followers (Tarot was not the only one tasked with interfering in Pete's plans)
A mortal ineligible due to his species (Zack, who bravely and valiantly foiled the plans of the diabolical Mr. Pete by making him incapable of choosing any of his desired candidates)
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by IceKitsune »

RootsofOrigin wrote: Dragon interposed with her own followers (Tarot was not the only one tasked with interfering in Pete's plans)
Avatars and Followers are different the only two likely Followers she could have interposed with would be Sabrina and Max (since Max and Sabrina dated its very very likely hes a follower as well). Fido, Grape and Peanut became Followers later. And even if Followers and Avatars are considered the same, in this case, it doesn't matter they are all equally likely manipulations on Dragons part.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by EvanAierkan »

On arcs like these I wish the comic itself would focus more on these longer plots. Just when it starts to get interesting again it probably just take a detour on the next arc. Todays update was most interesting, but definitely waiting to get explanation on the game's goals.

So Tarot's relationship with Peanut was just a plan on Dragon's behalf? Not entirely unexpected. Fido was a candidate for an avatar as well? That's new.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by Sleet »

Wow, this exposition is awesome. But the alt text... why Rick. Why. D:
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by RootsofOrigin »

IceKitsune wrote:Fido, Grape and Peanut became Followers later.
Not really sure of what's needed to be considered a follower. For one thing, Grape doesn't seem to enjoy discussing anything involving the supernatural. Peanut does, but that doesn't necessarily make him a follower. And Fido, I'm not entirely sure of his affiliation.
Sleet wrote:Wow, this exposition is awesome. But the alt text... why Rick. Why. D:
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by valerio »

I am upset so far.
And it comes from ME, man!
I know Rick has used us to his unexpected twists, but half of the whole trial thing, so far, looks made of made-ups. This so-called Game should be explained in terms that a reader can understand, a mechanism that one can follow. Rick has had all the time to arrange it, instead weìre being filled up with stuff that sounds like 'hm, I got a cool character stuck and I must invent something quick even if it makes no sense!'
Plus, the situation has de-evolved from 'they are playing a minigame inside the comic's events' to 'sorry guys but everything is happening because we're messing with ya!' (except for a handful of characters, like Bino). Fido too is openly mentioned as a 'dream sundered0, which means that his involvement with Sabrina could have been the result of a manipulation by tarot/Dragon's part! (if he got in love, bye bye avatar)
I hope there is an Occam explanation for this mess, because it would make important parts of the whole comic moot, which would be a great waste.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by Ratros »

....I know all my theories have been proven wrong (still holding out for the power ranger one) and that the one about them just being jerks is right, but I am to preoccupied by the images of Pete and Bahamut being dead drunk to be depressed about it...really they should be more careful of going on benders, they do know what happened to the King of the Cosmos right?
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by RootsofOrigin »

Tarot wrote:The hour shall come to pass, your lives will be changed forever in ways you cannot imagine, for you stare now into the abyss, unable to comprehend what you see. The truth shall be brought to the light, and I fear that day, for all who do not hold love in their hearts shall perish, and their souls shall be broken into shards as countless as all the sand on the face of the Earth.
Pete wrote:A sunderer needs enormous quantities of either purity or imagination, but to begin with cannot be "in love" with anyone.
Hmmm.... I'm a little conflicted with what I found.
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Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven

Post by valerio »

In her way, though in order to respect Peanut's and Grape's free will on the matter, Tarot told them to nourish their love for each other, so that they wouldn't become avatars for Pete (because he needs them to be loveless to work for him)
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