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Re: Languages

Post by Sleet »

Oh of course. Just less so than Spanish and French.
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Re: Languages

Post by CaptainPea »

Where Topics Come Back From The Dead Oh No

Anyways,
I want to know who decided "gh" could make an "f" sound, as in cough or rough.
At least with "ph", the mouth shape for "f" is sorta halfway between both "p" and "h". With "gh", there is no similarity at all of "g" to "f".
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Re: Languages

Post by Ebly »

CaptainPea wrote:Where Topics Come Back From The Dead Oh No

Anyways,
I want to know who decided "gh" could make an "f" sound, as in cough or rough.
At least with "ph", the mouth shape for "f" is sorta halfway between both "p" and "h". With "gh", there is no similarity at all of "g" to "f".
Phonemes can be represented by many different graphemes, and graphemes can be expressed with many different phonemes.

You are right that there is no similarity between a voiced velar stop and a voiceless labiodental fricative - I mean even if you have no idea what those words mean, at the very least you can see that every single part of it is different.

I can't tell you the reason why (but it's certainly not that someone 'decided' it), but I can tell you that the phonemes associated with the digraph 'gh' do not necessarily have any relationship to the phonemes of 'g' and 'h' separately, much like how 'ch' doesn't necessarily have any relation to 'c' and 'h', and it shouldn't be expected for a digraph to sound like either of its components when taken individually.

Mind you, 'gh' can also be used as a voiced velar stop in some contexts, and be completely silent in others: Compare your example 'cough' (/kôf/) with 'ghost' (/gōst/) or 'though' (/ðō/).

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Re: Languages

Post by p33wii »

That just reminded me of the scene in Hot Rod where the main character starts pronouncing 'w's very strangely. He is doing a stunt and the word to pull out of the stunt is whiskey, but instead he says wuhisky and completely floors himself. Needless to say that it was funnier than it sounds when I explain it.

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Re: Languages

Post by Obbl »

Well, the gh was probably originally a voiceless (maybe voiced) velar fricative (see hard German ch as example), but as English moved away from using that sound entirely, it migrated to places that sounded similar (cough: f is fricative so it has a similar feel), occurred in the same place (ghost: g is also velar), or was just dropped to make things easier (through).

Again, any real linguists may tear this theory into little shreds :lol:
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Re: Languages

Post by Alex M. »

Spanish is my native language :mrgreen:
Still learning English:
Reading 90% (Still discovering words like sidekick, flick, bigoted, offspring :oops: )
Writing 80% (Still some few errors with grammar and specially in past tense and technicalities)
Speaking 70% (Pronuntiation mistakes -.-!)
Heard 60% (Some people talk to fast)

And well posting on Housepets! helped me a lot with grammatical mistakes.
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Re: Languages

Post by Sleet »

One of my offspring is my sidekick, but sometimes I have to flick her when she's acting bigoted. Learning new words is fun. I wish I were at the level of proficiency in Spanish to start learning neat new words, but I'm still learning the basic things.

...What's a really neat word you never hear, and what's it mean? :P
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Re: Languages

Post by Alex M. »

Sleet wrote:One of my offspring is my sidekick, but sometimes I have to flick her when she's acting bigoted. Learning new words is fun. I wish I were at the level of proficiency in Spanish to start learning neat new words, but I'm still learning the basic things.

...What's a really neat word you never hear, and what's it mean? :P
Mmmmm.....
Relajacion
Relaxing
Well i try to keep my life the stress-less the more posible, maybe it's not a neat word, but i like it ^~^

And i have a little game for you and for all who want to learn Spanish, is called "Trabalenguas"
The rules are:
Say it as fast you can.
Do it three times.
And have fun :D

Erre con Erre Cigarro,
Erre con Erre Barril,
Rapido Corren los Carros,
Cargados de Azucar,
Del Ferrocarril.

Tres Tristes Tigres Tragaban Trigo en un Trigal,
En un Trigal Tragaban Trigo Tres Tristes Tigres.

Los trabalenguas se han hecho para destrabar la lengua,
sin trabas ni mengua alguna,
y si alguna mengua traba tu lengua,
con un trabalenguas podras destrabar tu lengua.

Have fun and tell me how you did :D
Last edited by Alex M. on Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Languages

Post by dalonewolf25 »

Alex M. wrote:Spanish is my native language :mrgreen:
Still learning English:
Reading 90% (Still discovering words like sidekick, flick, bigoted, offspring :oops: )
Writing 80% (Still some few errors with grammar and specially in past tense and technicalities)
Speaking 70% (Pronuntiation mistakes -.-!)
Heard 60% (Some people talk to fast)

And well posting on Housepets! helped me a lot with grammatical mistakes.
That is one of the reasons why I'm still here. E|:D
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Re: Languages

Post by Sleet »

That's not an obscure word! There's no fun in that!

Anyway, you had be beat at "erre." I still can't roll my R's. Then again, you probably have/had trouble pronouncing our H's.
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Re: Languages

Post by dalonewolf25 »

Alex M. wrote:
Sleet wrote:One of my offspring is my sidekick, but sometimes I have to flick her when she's acting bigoted. Learning new words is fun. I wish I were at the level of proficiency in Spanish to start learning neat new words, but I'm still learning the basic things.

...What's a really neat word you never hear, and what's it mean? :P
Los trabalenguas se han hecho para destrabar la lengua,
sin trabas ni mengua alguna,
y si alguna mengua traba tu lengua,
con un trabalenguas podras destrabar tu lengua.

Have fun and tell me how you did :D
Try saying "otorrinolaringologia" as fast as you can. My mom made me do that when I was little...
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Re: Languages

Post by Alex M. »

dalonewolf25 wrote:
Alex M. wrote:
Sleet wrote:One of my offspring is my sidekick, but sometimes I have to flick her when she's acting bigoted. Learning new words is fun. I wish I were at the level of proficiency in Spanish to start learning neat new words, but I'm still learning the basic things.

...What's a really neat word you never hear, and what's it mean? :P
Los trabalenguas se han hecho para destrabar la lengua,
sin trabas ni mengua alguna,
y si alguna mengua traba tu lengua,
con un trabalenguas podras destrabar tu lengua.

Have fun and tell me how you did :D
Try saying "otorrinolaringologia" as fast as you can. My mom made me do that when I was little...
Thats easy.
Now try to say this one:
PENTAQUISMIRIOEXAQUISQUILIOTETRACOSIOEXAPENTAGONAL
It's a polygon of 84 sides :mrgreen:
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Re: Languages

Post by Sleet »

Actually it's a verb meaning being shaped like a polygon with 84 sides. The shape itself would just be a pentaquismirioexaquisquilotetracosioexapentagon.

Actually, the real word is octacontakaitetragon. The more you know. :3

The longest English word I can pull out of my mind is pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.
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Re: Languages

Post by Alex M. »

Sleet wrote:Actually it's a verb meaning being shaped like a polygon with 84 sides. The shape itself would just be a pentaquismirioexaquisquilotetracosioexapentagon.

Actually, the real word is octacontakaitetragon. The more you know. :3

The longest English word I can pull out of my mind is pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.
Just googled and found this:
ACETYL SERYL TYROSYL SERYL ISO LEUCYL THREONYL SERYL PROLYL SERYL GLUTAMINYL PHENYL ALANYL VALYL PHENYL ALANYL­LEUCYL SERYL SERYL VALYL TRYPTOPHYL ALANYL ASPARTYL PROLYL ISOLEUCYL GLUTAMYL LEUCYL LEUCYL ASPARAGINYL VALYL CYSTEINYL THREONYL SERYL SERYL LEUCYL GLYCYL­ASPARAGINYL GLUTAMINYL PHENYL ALANYL GLUTAMINYL THREONYL GLUTAMINYL GLUTAMINYL ALANYL ARGINYL THREONYL THREONYL GLUTAMINYL VALYL GLUTAMINYL GLUTAMINYL­PHENYL ALANYL SERYL GLUTAMINYL VALYL TRYPTOPHYL LYSYL PROLYL PHENYL ALANYL PROLYL GLUTAMINYL SERYL THREONYL VALYL ARGINYL PHENYL ALANYL PROLYL GLYCYL­ASPARTYL VALYL TYROSYL LYSYL VALYL TYROSYL ARGINYL TYROSYL ASPARAGINYL ALANYL VALYL LEUCYL ASPARTYL PROLYL LEUCYL ISOLEUCYL THREONYL ALANYL LEUCYL LEUCYL­GLYCYL THREONYL PHENYL ALANYL ASPARTYL THREONYL ARGINYL ASPARAGINYL ARGINYL ISOLEUCYL ISOLEUCYL GLUTAMYL VALYL GLUTAMYL ASPARAGINYL GLUTAMINYL GLUTAMINYL­SERYL PROLYL THREONYL THREONYL ALANYL GLUTAMYL THREONYL LEUCYL ASPARTYL ALANYL THREONYL ARGINYL ARGINYL VALYL ASPARTYL ASPARTYL ALANYL THREONYL VALYL­ALANYL ISOLEUCYL ARGINYL SERYL ALANYL ASPARAGINYL ISOLEUCYL ASPARAGINYL LEUCYL VALYL ASPARAGINYL GLUTAMYL LEUCYL VALYL ARGINYL GLYCYL THREONYL GLYCYL LEUCYL­TYROSYL ASPARAGINYL GLUTAMINYL ASPARAGINYL THREONYL PHENYL ALANYL GLUTAMYL SERYL METHIONYL SERYL GLYCYL LEUCYL VALYL TRYPTOPHYL THREONYL SERYL ALANYL­PROLYL ALANYL SERINE
:shock: :o
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Re: Languages

Post by Sleet »

I was going to say the IUPAC name for the muscle protein "titin," but due to the character limit it'd take four posts.

So instead I leave you with this.

And no, it is not a coincidence it sounds like "titan." All proteins must end in "-in," and biologists have senses of humor sometimes.

EDIT: Wait, there are still two more hours of the name that YouTube had to cut out. It's a big word. :3
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Re: Languages

Post by Alex M. »

Sleet wrote:I was going to say the IUPAC name for the muscle protein "titin," but due to the character limit it'd take four posts.

So instead I leave you with this.

And no, it is not a coincidence it sounds like "titan." All proteins must end in "-in," and biologists have senses of humor sometimes.

EDIT: Wait, there are still two more hours of the name that YouTube had to cut out. It's a big word. :3
That will be my new password for all.
Noooo!
I have a feling that in the future i will need to write the full word on the white board of my classroom :?
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Re: Languages

Post by Sleet »

It would take one of the fastest speakers in the world at least two hours to say it. Imagine how long it would take to write. Plus it wouldn't fit unless you can write obscenely small.
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Re: Languages

Post by Alex M. »

Sleet wrote:It would take one of the fastest speakers in the world at least two hours to say it. Imagine how long it would take to write. Plus it wouldn't fit unless you can write obscenely small.
Imagine saying the full word with some techno beats, that will be awesome for a rave! :mrgreen:

Woops! Techno typo :roll:
Last edited by Alex M. on Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Languages

Post by dalonewolf25 »

Sadly, the longest word in the English dictionary is antidisestablishmentarianism. Scientific words with long prefixes and suffixes are usually not placed in the dictionary...
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Re: Languages

Post by Sleet »

Titin isn't prefixes and suffixes, since there is no root word. It's a bunch of chemical groups strung together like any chemical would be.
dalonewolf25 wrote:...antidisestablishmentarianism.... prefixes and suffixes...
You mean "establish?"

Anyway, the dictionary we had at middle school had pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis in it. There is no "the English dictionary." Different dictionaries will include different words.
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Re: Languages

Post by Ebly »

Obbl wrote:Well, the gh was probably originally a voiceless (maybe voiced) velar fricative (see hard German ch as example), but as English moved away from using that sound entirely, it migrated to places that sounded similar (cough: f is fricative so it has a similar feel), occurred in the same place (ghost: g is also velar), or was just dropped to make things easier (through).

Again, any real linguists may tear this theory into little shreds :lol:
Well to be fair the voiced velar fricative was used in OE, as well as the voiceless velar fricative which is far more common today (but, like your German example, it's more often represented by 'ch', not 'gh').

I did some very very light searching and couldn't find any actual examples of the archaic use of the voiced velar fricative, so I can't really comment otherwise.
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Re: Languages

Post by CaptainPea »

Today I suddenly realized that the way that everyone I know (myself included) pronounces comfortable does not line up with the actual spelling; in fact I don't think I have ever heard anyone pronounce it the way it is spelled.

I've always heard it pronounced as though spelled "comfterble"*, while it is clearly spelled with the r between the f and t. I guess this is pretty common considering its how I've always heard it, but I think the spelling should change, because the current spelling makes me uncomfterble.

*/kʌmftə[r]bəl/, as opposed to /kʌmfərtəbəl/ yay the internet has dictionaries on it
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Re: Languages

Post by Dissension »

I've never heard comfortable pronounced like that.
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Re: Languages

Post by Sleet »

I hear "comfterble" all the time.
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Re: Languages

Post by Ebly »

i hear both, and i say both

i guess it kind of depends on how articulate we feel like being
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Re: Languages

Post by Obbl »

Oh and probably goes all over the place :D

/prali/ /prabli/ /prabəbli/ :lol:
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Re: Languages

Post by Ebly »

But then, isn't that basically how language changes in the first place?

Few centuries time, 'prolly' will be a formal, archaic spelling of their word 'broi', or something.
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Re: Languages

Post by Spork »

I can speak English and some Albanian. I'm also taking basic French in my school. (Options were: Spanish, Chinese, or French)
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Re: Languages

Post by viridis »

It's interesting how language changes like that. I have learnt a lot about it in English class this year due to Shakespeare. It also seems to me that older English has more in common with other modern European languages than modern English does.

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Re: Languages

Post by Anthroguy101 »

English y Español (forgot most of the latter, actually)

EDIT: Dos clases del Español.

No Esquio en la noche. No hago a los bolos. Ayeeeeee!!

I also know what E Plaribus Unum and L'etoile Du Nord stands for, but that's because of a presidential speech and Google Translate.

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Re: Languages

Post by Alex M. »

Anthroguy101 wrote:English y Español (forgot most of the latter, actually)

EDIT: Dos clases del Español.

No Esquio en la noche. No hago a los bolos. Ayeeeeee!!

I also know what E Plaribus Unum and L'etoile Du Nord stands for, but that's because of a presidential speech and Google Translate.
¿Porque no esquias por la noche? Es lo mas divertido ;)
Yo tampoco se jugar a los bolos :(
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Re: Languages

Post by dalonewolf25 »

¿Los bolos? ¿Que es eso? Yo no he escuchado de eso antes... ¿Pueda ser jugar al baloncesto? También, yo averiguo si es posible hacer un thread en español, pero yo creo que eso haría la gente un poquito triste, ¿no? Pero en un sentido, eso haría que la gente que lo están practicando poder practicarlo más.
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Re: Languages

Post by Alex M. »

Boliche :D
¿Porque haria a la gente triste?
Y si esta perfecta la idea de un Thread en Español, asi quienes lo quieren aprender pueden practicar y mejorar :P
¿Porque odias el signo de interrogacion "¿" ?
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Re: Languages

Post by Sleet »

¿En Español, dicen "thread" en la Red? ¿No hay una palabra Español para "thread" cuando estan hablando del foros?
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Re: Languages

Post by Beagle »

D=

Parle vous francais?? Parle vous anglais?
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Re: Languages

Post by ChewyChewy »

Beagle wrote:D=

Parle vous francais?? Parle vous anglais?
I don't mean to correct your French, but it's "Parlez-vous anglais?" I can't correct the "C" in "francais" because I don't know how to do special letters.... :oops:
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Re: Languages

Post by Anthroguy101 »

Alex M. wrote:
Anthroguy101 wrote:English y Español (forgot most of the latter, actually)

EDIT: Dos clases del Español.

No Esquio en la noche. No hago a los bolos. Ayeeeeee!!

I also know what E Plaribus Unum and L'etoile Du Nord stands for, but that's because of a presidential speech and Google Translate.
¿Porque no esquias por la noche? Es lo mas divertido ;)
Yo tampoco se jugar a los bolos :(
My shoulder is bad, that's why. Also, how dare you insult bowling. (You're probably just jealous because I'm better than you).

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Re: Languages

Post by Alex M. »

Beagle wrote:D=

Parle vous francais?? Parle vous anglais?
Je suis Alex. Je suis Français, et cela est la seule langue que je parle.
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Re: Languages

Post by Alex M. »

¿Porque no esquias por la noche? Es lo mas divertido ;)
Yo tampoco se jugar a los bolos :([/quote]
My shoulder is bad, that's why. Also, how dare you insult bowling. (You're probably just jealous because I'm better than you).[/quote]

I didn't insult bowling :(
I just stated that i don't know to play.
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Re: Languages

Post by Sleet »

It's not really complicated. You just roll the ball and try to hit as many pins as possible. The only thing that's at all complicated is the scoring system and knowing when it's your turn, which someone else can always keep track of for you.
Beagle wrote:D=

Parle vous francais?? Parle vous anglais?
I speak French.

CROISSANT!

I don't speak much French.
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