How appropriate is it to criticize someone's project to them.

For talking about images, videos, and all that other bandwidth-killing stuff. Put ALL your media-related stuff that is not similarly Housepets-related here: Stories etc.

Moderator: ArcWolf

Post Reply
Keeperixx
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:58 am

How appropriate is it to criticize someone's project to them.

Post by Keeperixx »

I have a bit of a social dilemma. A dude I know is working on a comic he's posted online that managed to get a TV Tropes article on it. The slight downside is that the YMMV page painted some parts of the comic in a.... less than stellar light.

I tried bringing it to his attention on a social media PM system and asked him if the criticisms laid on his comic will be addressed later. But I could barely get him to respond. In his defense though, I might have brought up to him how his comic was criticized a little too much and he threatened to block me for harassment. So I apologized and he forgave me.

(Please note that in the interest of avoiding the odds of sparking his ire and to avoid the chance someone reading this might intentionally harass him, I'm keeping his identity and that of his comic anonymous, I don't think it's really needed for the questions I'm about to ask anyway.)

Though afterwards he showed a seemingly dismissive attitude towards most of criticisms given to his comic, called many of the statements on the YMMV page "mean-spirited, misleading, and over-reaching".

While I know it's good to have confidence in your work, I wasn't (and still am not) convinced the criticisms given to his comic weren't entirely wrong. Plus, a reader viewing a character or plot point in a way that's different from what you intended isn't something you can blame the reader themself for.

And as webcomic writer myself, I like to think if my comic was given any such criticisms, I'd try to look into how and why the reader views something a certain way and try to re-modify my approach accordingly. My friend, in contrast, seems adamant over the direction he's going with his comic and doesn't seem to think he's actually made any errors in his writing.

Heck, I've seen alot of projects fall apart and lose popularity because the creators tend to refuse to listen to criticisms given to them, which is why I tried to call my friend's attention toward those criticisms; I like what he's trying to do and want to see the premise of his comic reach its full potential.

I wanted to be certain my friend wouldn't fall into the same downfall, which is why I tried to bring up those criticisms to him in the first place.

Which is why I want to ask; how appropriate is it, socially, to ask someone to address criticisms given to their project? Was my only mistake being that I pushed too hard? Should I have even brought up those criticisms at all? Or do you think there's an error in how my friend was reacting to the criticisms?

I'm legitimately kinda conflicted about it.
User avatar
D-Rock
Moderator
Posts: 9321
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:25 am
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: How appropriate is it to criticize someone's project to them.

Post by D-Rock »

Being this vague is making a sound judgement really difficult, but I guess it can’t be helped.
Faith doesn't change circumstances. Faith changes me.
Image
Image
Avatar by CHAOKOCartoons
User avatar
Harry Johnathan
Posts: 2067
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:10 pm

Re: How appropriate is it to criticize someone's project to them.

Post by Harry Johnathan »

I think that criticism is a valid, important and to quote Lucretia, sacred even, profession and task.

No-one is perfect. But nothing is also not perfect. If a person, who is already imperfect, creates a work, the work will be even more imperfect than him!

Maybe your friend can't take critics. That's alright. It's his loss on countless ideas and inspiration from other people's evaulation of his work. :| Also, your friend getting his own page on TV Tropes is pretty awesome, not gonna lie. Anywho, what matters is that YOU recongize the need for criticism.
Sarah was afraid, so she lied and said, “I did not laugh.” But [The LORD] said, “Yes, you did laugh.” - Genesis 18:15 (NIV).
User avatar
Nathan Kerbonaut
Posts: 1314
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:16 pm
Location: Wisconsin
Contact:

Re: How appropriate is it to criticize someone's project to them.

Post by Nathan Kerbonaut »

It's his project. If he refuses criticism then so be it. I agree that criticism is an important source of growth for any artist. How an artist handles criticism is their choice and theirs alone -- which means if their project goes south, then they have no one but themselves to blame. If I were in your place, I wouldn't feel any responsibility for the success of their webcomic because it's not mine. Just the way I see it.
User avatar
Vertigo Fox
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:58 pm
Location: in the corner of a sphere...
Contact:

Re: How appropriate is it to criticize someone's project to them.

Post by Vertigo Fox »

It really depends on the person. Sometimes someone needs the time to realize the flaws in their work for themselves.

If they really care about what they're making, they will figure out their problems given enough time for the natural process of practice and getting better. That, or, something that others criticize could be something they genuinely like, and that's fine.

If they don't care so much about the particular project they're making, then if they fail they'll move on to a new one, and it might not hurt them as much as you think.

Sometimes the best thing you can do as a friend is to watch and be supportive, even when that hurts a little. Depends on the person, but sometimes they need that more than criticism.
Ship's Cat, MPSV Iberia
Check out my musical ramblings, if you dare:

https://soundcloud.com/snowfoxden
User avatar
VeryAngryDeer
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:29 pm

Re: How appropriate is it to criticize someone's project to them.

Post by VeryAngryDeer »

Accepting criticism can be very hard. One of the most difficult things for me about drawing and writing is not throwing up deflections and rationalisations for issues with my writing. When I've managed to battle that back, I've been able to see for myself the improvement that results. Reader input is a massive part of my current writing project.

... unfortunately, self-improvement requires recognising that you aren't perfect, which the human brain doesn't like the idea of. Challenging that (even with the truth) causes it to get defensive, and the harder you try the worse it'll get. So maybe you should only bring this up very rarely, and try to take it one issue at a time insteading of dumping everything on them at once.

I've given writing reviews. I can be very thorough about pointing out flaws. But I only provide that criticism with the person's consent, I try to ensure my criticism is constructive by explaining how improvement could be made, and I try to get across that I don't want to recipient to stop writing.

Good luck.
User avatar
Amazee Dayzee
Posts: 25880
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:24 pm

Re: How appropriate is it to criticize someone's project to them.

Post by Amazee Dayzee »

I think that it is very appropriate to criticize a project with the author’s consent if they request it because that is the only way you are going to be able to get better. You usually won’t be able to figure out the subtle weaknesses you have so having someone that is objective and can pick up on them is a good idea and it can only help you grow.
NHWestoN
Posts: 19348
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:09 pm
Location: North of Boston Boy

Re: How appropriate is it to criticize someone's project to them.

Post by NHWestoN »

I've done my share of critiques, sometimes at the request of the author, other times a publisher. I've usually focused on the credibility of the thesis, the use of sources, and the flow of the structure. These examinations took place in academic type exchanges which can be absolutely horrific especially if the key ideas are controversial (or the critic wants to make them adversarial). And some "scholars" are just acid throwers.

I haven't done much with creative stuff. There I look at character development, language color, and some elements of originality. I keep in mind that, when someone's building a world, it's their world, not mine. There's an old saying - "there are four great temptations a person faces - money, power, appetite (sex), and changing the written words of someone else." I shy away at a lot of invitations because they strike me as too imitative (as if I'd know!) or just themes I avoid out of taste (vampires - yawwwwwnnnnnnn).

But, in this life, if you're gonna do "a project", you're gonna encounter commentators. Some appreciative, some constructive, some mixed, some unintentionally harsh, and some just shark chum. Try to learn from them all.

And there's always the "delete" button.
Dogglar
Posts: 205
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:09 pm
Contact:

Re: How appropriate is it to criticize someone's project to them.

Post by Dogglar »

IMO just put the criticism out there and if they don't want to take it, so be it.

You can't change someone's mind for them, you can only help them change their mind on their own.
B.E.A.R. PMC
Post Reply