Where do they send the souls of the damned?

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MasterAbsinthe
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Where do they send the souls of the damned?

Post by MasterAbsinthe »

The whole Heaven thing is kind of making me uneasy because Heaven is nice and all, but along with Heaven there is also Hell which makes me alot more uncomfortable about the whole situation. We haven't explicitly seen or heard about hell in the comics, but it's kind of implied.

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Here we understand that Bahamut (or whoever is in charge of judgement) doesn't let everyone into Heaven, but dogs have an easier time than humans.

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Here we find out that Cerberus previously worked somewhere in the cosmos where the souls of children are never sent. Where? Hell? Makes sense given that the mythological Cerberus that Rick took inspiration from does in fact guard the gates of Hell.

I'm wondering if anyone has ever heard from Rick whether Hell exists or not, or alternatively where they send the souls that aren't accepted into Heaven.

EDIT:
I realize that I should have mentioned Pandemonium as a potential candidate for Hell. Here's my problem though...

Image

Eudoant's description of Pandemonium doesn't mention anything about being a sinner or deserving punishment, simply that Pandemonium is the place for forgotten, unwanted souls. Of course, you could interpret that "unwanted" means unwanted in Heaven, i.e. damned. But if this was the case, Breel wouldn't apply for citizenship, given that he already has been accepted into Heaven. Instead, Eudoant affirms that everyone who enters Pandemonium should be in Pandemonium.

So, it's not clear whether Pandemonium applies as equivalent to Hell; we don't know if souls damned by Bahamut are sent there. For all we know, Pandemonium is just a really terrible place in the celestial cosmos where people sometimes end up and are tortured for all eternity.
Last edited by MasterAbsinthe on Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

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Hell was literally shown in Temple Crashers 2.
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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

Post by NHWestoN »

Pandemonium is apparently Housepets Hell, although it seems not so much Dante as Dystopian.

Rick spent many years elaborating the character of the Celestial world and its inhabitants. The Infernal realm was only broadly sketched for one arc, although it was a doozy. Whether he wants to return there again remains to be seen. By having Keene's demon buddy escape, the option to return to Infernal affairs stays an open question (just like Badger and his transforming coin or Tarot's prediction of Sabrina's near-drowning). Eudoant struck me as an intriguing character, kind of an Infernal mirror of Cerberus. I could see an arc where he and one of the Celestials make a bet for the fate of one of the Housepets souls or a whole range of other possibilities, assuming Eudoant gets to come to earth. The Forgotten is a hideous figure of genuine spiritual horror and worthy of an encore.

So, "Pandemonium: The Sequel" ... maybe. It's Rick's world... er, cosmos.

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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

Post by Amazee Dayzee »

I think that is was already pretty much established that Pandemonium is actually the Hell of the Housepets! universe though it isn't the kind of Hell that you actually think of but it might be more like the Hell in the Bible which isn't all fire and brimstone.

On an unrelated note, the boyband B2K has an album called Pandemonium! So if they exist in the Housepets! universe does that mean the album is actually called Hell! then? :lol:
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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

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Well, if Rick is doing direct references, Pandemonium is the capital of Hell, from the epic poem, Paradise Lost. Wonder if the intentional naming also had to do with the fact that it was written by John Milton? Anyway, there are a lot of different descriptions of Hell in the Bible, in order to get the point across of, “you don’t want to be there.” I’m sure other beliefs that include a Hell also have some sort of description of the place unique to their. The whole “fire and brimstone” I’m sure was just the most popular to depict.
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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

Post by Amazee Dayzee »

There is also a lot of people who believe that Hell actually doesn't exist and there are different levels of heaven and you have to work your way up.

There is even a Wikipedia page on it. "Problem of Hell".
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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

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Amazee Dayzee wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:07 pm
There is also a lot of people who believe that Hell actually doesn't exist and there are different levels of heaven and you have to work your way up.

There is even a Wikipedia page on it. "Problem of Hell".
Dante, in his Inferno depicts hell as God's garbage pit (respectful nod to Eudoant) with multiple layers, each one containing groups of souls suffering eternal punishment for some particular sin (ex. flatterers spend eternity in a hideous river of poop). Satan himself is encased at the very pit of the Inferno, as the being farthest away from the presence of God. Rick's Pandemonium seems more like Milton's.

In Paradise, Dante displays Heaven as a sort of solar system in which the saints are placed at varying distances from the Trinitarian God Who acts as the sun in this universe. However, Paradise is actually not "hierarchical" but individualized. For Dante, every soul is like a cup and each one is filled to capacity with God's Love. Some souls have a large capacity while others are smaller, but the real point is that each soul contains as much as can be taken in - so there is no envy or jealousy among the redeemed.

Along with the question of Hell's existance, religious folk of all faiths have debated about it's nature. An early Egyptian bishop named Clement supposably answered a student's question about hell by saying, "Well, of course hell exists, my child, since this is what the church teaches. However, so great is the mercy of God that you can be certain there's probably no one in it."

Origen, a very important early theologian, argued that - at the end of time - God's mercy would extend t even Satan, the demons, and the damned and Divine Love would redeem even the lost. A church council - don't remember which one - formally condemned this teaching and several other of Origen's propositions. Origin also believed that animals had souls, would experience the afterlife, and practiced vegetarianism.

Anyways, I'd be interested to see Rick develop the "Dark Side" cosmology and characters a little further ....... and I'll walk away now.

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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

Post by MasterAbsinthe »

D-Rock wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:24 pm
Hell was literally shown in Temple Crashers 2.
I realize that I should have mentioned Pandemonium as a potential candidate for Hell. (I have edited the post to include this). Here's my problem though...

Image

Eudoant's description of Pandemonium doesn't mention anything about being a sinner or deserving punishment, simply that Pandemonium is the place for forgotten, unwanted souls. Of course, you could interpret that "unwanted" means unwanted in Heaven, i.e. damned. But if this was the case, Breel wouldn't apply for citizenship, since he already has been accepted into Heaven. Instead, Eudoant affirms that everyone who enters Pandemonium should be in Pandemonium.

So, it's not clear whether Pandemonium applies as equivalent to Hell; we don't know if souls damned by Bahamut are sent there. For all we know, Pandemonium is just a really terrible place in the cosmos where people sometimes end up, and are tortured in, for all eternity.
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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

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Fair points, barring the fact that Breel was kidnapped and the angelic guides were depowered from being too close. Judging from Cerberus, who was implied to initially been Hells Guardian at first, this probably only applies to mortal spirits. And while it could be more of part of the pun, Eudoant referred to himself as a devil.
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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

Post by NHWestoN »

D-Rock wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:56 pm
Fair points, barring the fact that Breel was kidnapped and the angelic guides were depowered from being too close. Judging from Cerberus, who was implied to initially been Hells Guardian at first, this probably only applies to mortal spirits. And while it could be more of part of the pun, Eudoant referred to himself as a devil.
... as in "better the devil you know than the devil "(Y)Eu doa(`)nt"!! (Heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee..... ;) )

The relation between the Celestial and Infernal realms is intriguing but remains for Rick to develop. Celestials can travel to earth but ... can Infernals?
I get the feeling, too, that by holding Breel (a Celestial) and Keene (a living "one") against their will, Eudoant may have been breaking some understanding between the two worlds. Do monsters like "The Forgotten" stomp around free range (and dangerous) in Pandemonium or are they under somekind of restraining or limiting spells or powers? How do souls get to Pandemonium - does some Infernal come for them like Cerberus retrieving those bound for Heaven? (What kind of cookies does Eudoant bring?). In fact, being almost counterparts, are Cerberus and Eudoant "Frenemies", maybe? And who cares about Badger and his coin - where the heck is that li'l dino-demon???

So many stories, eh, Rick? ;)

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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

Post by NHWestoN »

MasterAbsinthe wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:18 pm
D-Rock wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:24 pm
Hell was literally shown in Temple Crashers 2.
I realize that I should have mentioned Pandemonium as a potential candidate for Hell. (I have edited the post to include this). Here's my problem though...

Image

Eudoant's description of Pandemonium doesn't mention anything about being a sinner or deserving punishment, simply that Pandemonium is the place for forgotten, unwanted souls. Of course, you could interpret that "unwanted" means unwanted in Heaven, i.e. damned. But if this was the case, Breel wouldn't apply for citizenship, since he already has been accepted into Heaven. Instead, Eudoant affirms that everyone who enters Pandemonium should be in Pandemonium.

So, it's not clear whether Pandemonium applies as equivalent to Hell; we don't know if souls damned by Bahamut are sent there. For all we know, Pandemonium is just a really terrible place in the cosmos where people sometimes end up, and are tortured in, for all eternity.
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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

Post by MasterAbsinthe »

NHWestoN wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:49 pm
D-Rock wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:56 pm
Fair points, barring the fact that Breel was kidnapped and the angelic guides were depowered from being too close. Judging from Cerberus, who was implied to initially been Hells Guardian at first, this probably only applies to mortal spirits. And while it could be more of part of the pun, Eudoant referred to himself as a devil.
... as in "better the devil you know than the devil "(Y)Eu doa(`)nt"!! (Heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee..... ;) )

The relation between the Celestial and Infernal realms is intriguing but remains for Rick to develop. Celestials can travel to earth but ... can Infernals?
I get the feeling, too, that by holding Breel (a Celestial) and Keene (a living "one") against their will, Eudoant may have been breaking some understanding between the two worlds. Do monsters like "The Forgotten" stomp around free range (and dangerous) in Pandemonium or are they under somekind of restraining or limiting spells or powers? How do souls get to Pandemonium - does some Infernal come for them like Cerberus retrieving those bound for Heaven? (What kind of cookies does Eudoant bring?). In fact, being almost counterparts, are Cerberus and Eudoant "Frenemies", maybe? And who cares about Badger and his coin - where the heck is that li'l dino-demon???

So many stories, eh, Rick? ;)
Hold your horses! The distinction between Celestial and Infernal has yet to be made! They could all be Celestials with different careers. After all, Cerberus possibly worked as an "infernal" in Pandemonium before getting a promotion to "celestial" in Heaven.

There is no reason to believe that Cerberus only brings souls from Earth to Heaven. If her work can be compared to that of the grim reaper, she would bring all mortal souls to the afterlife, both Heaven, Hell, and Limbo. For all we know Eudoant is just a loser who works in Pandemonium. Nothing implies that she is the messenger for damned souls, or that she is Cerberus' conterpart in any way.

What I'm hoping for is that Cerberus and Eudoant are "frenemies" because she previously worked in Pandemonium and was stuck in a toxic relationship with Eudoant :lol: :lol: who was bringing out the worst in her instead of the tender-hearted Cerberus we know. Then she broke free and moved to a better place. The problem with this headcannon is that I don't know how to fit Pete the Gryphon and Cerberus' relationship in there....
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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

Post by Amazee Dayzee »

Oh I can easily fit that into the canon. Pete and Cerberus's relationship was when she JUST got to heaven and was so eager to try to show that she wasn't as bad as Eudoant that she dated Pete to try to prove she was personable. Then Pete did something and that torpedoed the relationship. :D
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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

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MasterAbsinthe wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:47 am
NHWestoN wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:49 pm
D-Rock wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:56 pm
Fair points, barring the fact that Breel was kidnapped and the angelic guides were depowered from being too close. Judging from Cerberus, who was implied to initially been Hells Guardian at first, this probably only applies to mortal spirits. And while it could be more of part of the pun, Eudoant referred to himself as a devil.
... as in "better the devil you know than the devil "(Y)Eu doa(`)nt"!! (Heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee..... ;) )

The relation between the Celestial and Infernal realms is intriguing but remains for Rick to develop. Celestials can travel to earth but ... can Infernals?
I get the feeling, too, that by holding Breel (a Celestial) and Keene (a living "one") against their will, Eudoant may have been breaking some understanding between the two worlds. Do monsters like "The Forgotten" stomp around free range (and dangerous) in Pandemonium or are they under somekind of restraining or limiting spells or powers? How do souls get to Pandemonium - does some Infernal come for them like Cerberus retrieving those bound for Heaven? (What kind of cookies does Eudoant bring?). In fact, being almost counterparts, are Cerberus and Eudoant "Frenemies", maybe? And who cares about Badger and his coin - where the heck is that li'l dino-demon???

So many stories, eh, Rick? ;)
Hold your horses! The distinction between Celestial and Infernal has yet to be made! They could all be Celestials with different careers. After all, Cerberus possibly worked as an "infernal" in Pandemonium before getting a promotion to "celestial" in Heaven.

There is no reason to believe that Cerberus only brings souls from Earth to Heaven. If her work can be compared to that of the grim reaper, she would bring all mortal souls to the afterlife, both Heaven, Hell, and Limbo. For all we know Eudoant is just a loser who works in Pandemonium. Nothing implies that she is the messenger for damned souls, or that she is Cerberus' conterpart in any way.

What I'm hoping for is that Cerberus and Eudoant are "frenemies" because she previously worked in Pandemonium and was stuck in a toxic relationship with Eudoant :lol: :lol: who was bringing out the worst in her instead of the tender-hearted Cerberus we know. Then she broke free and moved to a better place. The problem with this headcannon is that I don't know how to fit Pete the Gryphon and Cerberus' relationship in there....
Well, we'll have to see what - if anything - Rick does with his cosmos. Maybe Heaven and Pandemonium are managed by the same firm or corporate structure and you take different "career paths". Pete and Cerberus dated for 1, 000 years or so as I recollect; maybe she chose career progression over life with a feathered adolescent (smart move).

I don't have any horses. When I was a kid, a neighboring farmer used to graze his plow horse in a field near us. Sometimes I'd coax him over to a tree so I could get on his back and walk around on him for a while. He was a sweet creature. The farmer used to take him to the county fair and win prizes in pulling contests. At my age, I have to settle for Sophie.

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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

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Yeah I don't think sitting on a dog is the same thing as sitting on a horse. :?
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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

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Amazee Dayzee wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:46 am
Yeah I don't think sitting on a dog is the same thing as sitting on a horse. :?
Sophie's too elusive for riding.

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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

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Probably because she doesn't want to get her back broken since all adult humans are too big to ride on dogs.
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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

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Wonder if anyone - or "any thing" - rides around Pandemonium on " Forgotten" ? :twisted:

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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

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The Netherlands. Quite a fine tourism attraction, to be honest. Lots of natural overlooks, beautiful lakes and- Oh? Yeah? Uh-huh...

Oh...the Netherworld? Uh...forgot all of that I just said, but hey! We have not-so-natural overlooks of...terror. And uh, there sure are lakes here hehe. Of. You know, lava...
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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

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Cerberus got promoted, and stated that her last job never gave her an opportunity to work with children. That seems to imply it's a different position entirely.
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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

Post by Amazee Dayzee »

I would like to believe that children don't go to hell so whatever her last job was maybe it didn't have anything to do with hell.
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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

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Sentinal position, I think ... security. Turning back all the tourists.

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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

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I like to think that that was what Rick was implying, Dayzee.
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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

Post by Amazee Dayzee »

I hope it is and I'm sure most people agree but there might be some who say even children can be sent to hell.
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Re: Where do they send the souls of the damned?

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Amazee Dayzee wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:25 am
I hope it is and I'm sure most people agree but there might be some who say even children can be sent to hell.
There are. I'm not going any further down that road, though.

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