Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

Post by DdeeStar »

Leafolawl wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:12 pm
Minor correction, Growlithe, not Flareon. We (I) do know who you're talking about though.
Yeah, it's in this one too, I just didn't want to derail anything bringing it up. She's the only Fire-type around, so it was clear enough :lol:

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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

Post by CyberDragon »

Oops. :oops:

fixed.
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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

Post by CyberDragon »

Just a reminder that tomorrow is Saturday. I typically like to post on Saturday and Sunday, so best get your posts in before then if you can!
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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

Post by Leafolawl »

I did not know that, and I am happy to know that. Gives me a sense of how things will flow.
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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

Post by CyberDragon »

I'm trying to think of mechanics for how the Mystery Dungeons are going to go. I'm thinking like a "Lost Woods" style maze, but those often take a lot of trial and error and might take a long time in an RP setting.

Anyone have any suggestions? I need to think of something soon considering most of the group is headed into a Mystery Dungeon, and Ilex and Wiki are already in one.
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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

Post by Leafolawl »

That's where the fun is, I think... and actually one of the things I've been thinking about a lot since this started.

Mystery Dungeons in universe are said to be ever-changing, so it's easy to get lost. It is one of the things that drives Pokémon crazy. It's also said to be filled with a mysterious power that changes how everything behaves (reason number two on what drives Pokémon crazy), which is part of why Einar's been remarking on whether or not aura sense even works if they end up in a mystery dungeon. This could easily apply to other senses too... which itself could be a contributor to why civilized Pokémon go crazy in a mystery dungeon.

If we take gameplay abstractions, we could make it very slow so that it can be navigated if one keeps moving, or that it only changes at night. A "lost woods" approach could also work, but I see how that could be cumbersome to flow if it's not handled with care. It could also be an awareness thing, where once Pokémon realize they're in a mystery dungeon, they can keep track of how it connects, and navigate out from that as it changes far more rapidly.

But the real beauty in this, is that we can take all of these ideas (and more) and use them, separately or together, on different dungeons, because the in game lore itself says every mystery dungeon is different. They can warp reality so that large areas are inside relatively small buildings (though those are exclusively abandoned and haunted, or the location of great power (be it evil or good)), with rooms never lining up the way you would expect. Larger buildings tend to have larger areas.

It''s stupidly flexible.
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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

Post by DdeeStar »

Just to add something I'll mention that (probably as an anti-frustration feature, granted) most floors were relatively circular in design, so you'd almost always reach your next area if you just kept walking. They also didn't have a way out without the badges or an Orb.

I have to wonder if it would fall similarly - they end up as labyrinths that seem to defy a map the farther you go, with each new 'floor' giving a subtle shift in atmosphere, in this specific case likely denser canopy and a less visible path the farther one travels. All those "Help! I'm trapped!" missions could easily be Pokemon that wandered into the second floor and can no longer get back because retracing their steps is somehow leading them in circles. While going deeper into a Mystery Dungeon is intuitive, going up a 'floor' isn't something a Pokemon can do without extreme luck or some way to define their direction.

Hence the need for Badges. Rescue Teams always carry them, there's evidently a reason (especially if civilized status is shown by apparel, it wouldn't really be necessary). I could easily see them designed with lodestones or some other reactive item that gives an indication whenever the wearer has crossed into a new 'floor'. Maybe there's a sudden, more violent magnetic field between these fake floors that designate where the lines of shifting most regularly are. That means even in a Magnet Cave situation the Badge is viable as a detection means as long as it isn't fully depressed by the ambient magnetism - the reaction will just be less obvious. Further, between the separations, one's sense of direction is as it should be and the areas between can be mapped if one should choose. Naturally with them shifting it would only help for that expedition (or not even if you took too long) but maps could help stand in for the teleporting home function of the Badges, as you can't make a proper map without knowing where is a separate 'floor'. But once you have the maps, getting back is a lot less effort - easy enough to hand the maps to a found Pokemon and send them on their way in relative confidence. (So you don't have to leave when a search mission has completed because only doing one mission a dungeon hurt me so badly even though it's probably a better idea here) With enough experience in a Dungeon a particularly attentive Pokemon might learn to notice a floor's change by the scenery, but for the casual traveler there's no hope, and they'll only be able to travel the first floor without a danger of vanishing into the woods here.

3 am thoughts, whatever might be useful is free game. :D

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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

Post by Leafolawl »

Just a heads up, Einar is sitting back for a bit, as Kim has addressed every point he could think of at this moment.

... and then some.


What Marble and T say might change this.
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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

Post by CyberDragon »

The idea that I have for the mystery dungeons is that there is always technically a way out, but normally that way out changes every time you enter a new section of the dungeon, making it nearly impossible to find.

Pidgeot Path has a road that leads from the entrance of the dungeon straight to the exit, so as long as you stay on that path, you can make it through even without further preparations.

However...
In his panic, Wiki ran into the trees and left the path. Finding the path again is a matter of complete luck.

Now the next part:
Guild badges, scarves, and other identifying equipment causes the dungeon to temporarily lock its form, meaning guild members can navigate the dungeon without getting lost. This also means when they leave the dungeon, it goes back to self-randomizing, causing it to be different each time you enter it.
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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

Post by DdeeStar »

CyberDragon wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 2:07 pm
Now the next part:
Guild badges, scarves, and other identifying equipment causes the dungeon to temporarily lock its form, meaning guild members can navigate the dungeon without getting lost. This also means when they leave the dungeon, it goes back to self-randomizing, causing it to be different each time you enter it.
So for this, with the context that it affects both Marble and Ilex's experiences with Mystery Dungeons (the former being a regular explorer of a single one and the latter an accidental victim of several dozen), is there a limit to the time or area of these pieces of equipment? Say someone was collecting Guild Explorer badges and distributing them among a number of other Pokemon, could these Pokemon turn a Mystery Dungeon into a stable location by ensuring a wearer was always within? And do they need to be worn to take effect?

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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

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DdeeStar wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 1:43 pm
So for this, with the context that it affects both Marble and Ilex's experiences with Mystery Dungeons (the former being a regular explorer of a single one and the latter an accidental victim of several dozen), is there a limit to the time or area of these pieces of equipment? Say someone was collecting Guild Explorer badges and distributing them among a number of other Pokemon, could these Pokemon turn a Mystery Dungeon into a stable location by ensuring a wearer was always within? And do they need to be worn to take effect?
I would say that might work for a short time. I'm thinking that the guild explorer badges start to lose power when they are solitary in a mystery dungeon. They recharge slightly when outside of the mystery dungeon, they recharge quickly when in a guild hall, and they don't lose power at all if there are multiple badges near each other.

In other words, if someone gave guild badges to pokemon and had them go stabilize a Mystery Dungeon, eventually the badge's power would wear out unless they were partnered with another pokemon carrying a guild badge. They would have to periodically leave the dungeon to recharge, assuming they didn't get lost because their badge wore off.

That also doesn't really address the idea of someone getting all those badges in the first place. Badges aren't an especially common material, which is why the guild regulates their distribution.
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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

Post by DdeeStar »

Well, the implications here aren't something any Guild would be a huge fan of anyway. :lol:

I'm just wondering how reasonable it would be for the Iron Tunnels (under Blustering Heights) to be a Mystery Dungeon. Alum's already been recorded as attacking and robbing passing Explorers, so if he takes everything they have it probably wouldn't be clear that the Badges are being used to turn the Tunnels into a giant underground hideout. This just gives him more motivation to venture out for targets, because each captured Badge keeps the others working longer. He can take the dead Badges topside with him when he scouts to recharge them, and the live ones stay in the depths to keep his allies within the Dungeon safe and organized. As long as they don't let that little secret slip, they have a perfect base for anyone willing to live underground.

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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

Post by Leafolawl »

There's implications that some dungeons are actually under the control of powerful enough pokémon. Most examples are legendaries, but there have been a few non-legendary pokémon that have been implied to be in control of a mystery dungeon. This also applies to bands of pokémon that live in a mystery dungeon, seeming to be able to freely come and go. This could be familiarity, but that's not clear.

I'm also against the badges causing most dungeons to become static. You could argue it's implied because of how the S.O.S. rescues work, but I don't think it makes that much sense? There's a lot of clear magic in the Pokémon universe(especially the Mystery Dungeon ones), but there's a much clearer implication that that's not how it works when you go to fight Groudon to help the team of veterans from different rescue teams in the Rescue Team games. The dungeon literally changes every time you go in. The only time it doesn't is when you call an S.O.S., which means it's likely just something for the code's sake in tracking rescue status against the dungeon's generation seed.

Granted, as I've said before, the games imply every mystery dungeon is different, so some very well could, but I think this is not a correct interpretation of something that could be code related.


The badges are clearly some kind of magical, but most of that magic seems to be for game simplification in getting rescued pokémon out without cumbering the system's computer down with tracking extra npc data and exhausting player resources on another ally... It's very hard to say what the badges would actually do.
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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

Post by CyberDragon »

Apologies to all of the people waiting on my posts. I got my second covid shot Friday which took me out of commission Saturday, and due to personal problems I wasn't able to get motivated to write today.

I will try to catch up some tomorrow.
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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

Post by Leafolawl »

Congrats on the vaccinations, and don't worry too much. We've all shown we can be patient, so I'm sure no one will mind waiting a few days for you, especially as something came up.
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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

Post by Leafolawl »

A heads up: This is a dump of ideas, come back to read if you're not feeling like handling this wall of text right now.

So I was talking with a friend who showed me to a fanfic that I... probably won't link here, but had its own interpretations of mystery dungeons, and a few of the items. I do not, however, think the systems will all work for our purposes, but I figure I might as well bring them to the table while it's still relatively recent in discussion.


Starting with mystery dungeons, they're still confusing places to be in, but it's a bit more in depth. Instead of giving a bunch of lore though, I'll give how they functioned in the story, and keep it to the ones I think can be used.

A mystery dungeon is always stuck at some distinct state of being. To fully explain this, I don't mean "This hallway goes to the exit, I've been here before" but instead "It has been the pitch of night here for as long as I can recall, and the trees have never once fallen in spite of the ever burning flames threatening to consume them." Though, not necessarily that dramatic. Could just be an open green meadow with pools of standing water. (Probably rather common)

Mystery dungeons accelerate the metabolism of any pokémon inside. While this means pokémon get hungry more often, it also means they naturally heal far more quickly. A bit of a double edged sword there, but very simple. (Could be however common/uncommon)

Particularly nasty or mystical mystery dungeons might not even reflect the environments surrounding it, being completely different from what one might expect upon entering. A good example is walking into a cave that leads deep into a mountain that has no other caves, and ending up in a sunny field as you journey down into the pits of the caverns. (Rare)

Mystery dungeons don't change for awhile once someone enters it, but will change if you're there for a long time, causing whoever's there to... have a breakdown of mental functions of sorts as the rush of the very rapid change completely overwhelms a pokémon, leaving them unable to comprehend what's happening, and thus... pretty much blocking it out of their memory. Whether or not a pokémon gets 'ejected' from the mystery dungeon in the process can be discussed. (Can be however common/uncommon)


Orbs work with some extent of magic, being activated by psychic impulses. Common orbs could usually explain what they do through this, but the chance orbs can do that is inversely proportional to how common it is. Escape Orbs are basically guaranteed to do so, but if you were to find, say, a Luminous Orb, it might not do anything... One Room Orbs would never be able to express this.

Which is not too different from what I would have suggested, actually. Orbs only activate if you will it, or else you'd never be able to pick them up in the first place. Only difference is, the patters (which we can describe from Rescue Team DX item images) are the identifiers, and some orbs are just so well known that if you don't know what they do, you're probably not a pokémon that travels much, if ever. No psychic telling of what the orb does... unless, you know, telepathy is being used by a pokémon to talk about it.

Wands didn't exist in the story, but my thoughts of them is much the same. Point, will, witness its effects.


I've also been thinking about badges for the last bit to try and reason out what they could possibly do that's reasonable to a role-play setting, and I think I finally hit an idea that I can see being a thing. Badges communicate the condition of team members, and can be used to communicate a few simple ideas between all members of a team. For example, by saying to one's badge "I've found a precious item," it would cause the badges of other team members to shine in a way to indicate that a mission's been completed.

They might also shimmer/flash if a teammate is in trouble.


Huge post, sorry for the wall, just a bunch of stuff I figured everyone might like to consider. At your own pace, obviously.
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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

Post by CyberDragon »

I apologize for the delay.

I've been visiting family in California the past week and, while I've had loads of time, I've been struggling with getting the motivation to write.

I likely will be too busy to write for much of Tomorrow, but don't worry. I'm not going to make you guys wait another week.

I will work on my rps in what time I have tomorrow, then finish up on Monday if I can't finish it tomorrow.
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Re: Non-HPU: Pokémon: Explorers of the Veil

Post by DdeeStar »

No need to apologize! I'm sure we'd all much prefer you take the time you need than force yourself to write. The arts are fickle beasts, and family's far more important!

Thanks for the status update though, that's plenty by itself :lol:

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