2020/12/23 - Knock Knocking Around

Post by **D-Rock** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:04 am

[2020/12/23 - Knock Knocking Around]
Title Text: do you see any conspiracy theorists up here? I didn't think so!

Some people need some sense knocked into them. Or in this case, slapped.

Post by **Obbl** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:06 am

I too would be sad to see you consign your life to waiting to die for your happiness, Fox

dr_eirik · Post by **dr_eirik** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:08 am

While I feel for Fox, I think that he rather deserved that. Maybe needed that. Someone has to get through that this skull of his, wrapped as it is with self pity, to get him on the right track

LunarFox · Post by **LunarFox** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:09 am

She's quite literally knock-knock-knocking on Heaven's door... heh.

dr_eirik wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:08 am While I feel for Fox, I think that he rather deserved that. Maybe needed that. Someone has to get through that this skull of his, wrapped as it is with self pity, to get him on the right track.

Yeah, that exactly. And now I have G&R in my head.
--

You know, getting a hard slap to the face?
Sometimes, Fox, it's a saving grace,
You're far to young to pass,
Cut it our and don't be rash!

Heaven isn't a good place to be a dope,
To talk stupid, nope nope nope,
And here, we feel feel the husky's grief,
But what you want won't bring relief.

Hopefully he can get some help for reals,
Ears that understand just what he feels,
Until then, I have a hunch
That more slaps? There'll be a bunch.

Welsh Halfwit · Post by **Welsh Halfwit** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:11 am

Knock, knock, knockin' on Foxie's jaw...

An Angel with a great left paw
is about to tell our boy straight
that Heaven waits for those from Earth
but YOU first need to make life great.
Spring shows her love with a gesture,
bringing out a resounding slap,
as she finally seeks to show Fox
where he can stick his maudlin… pap.
What he doesn’t want, he’s getting;
a challenge to face his strife.
You see, what he’s been forgetting?
At times, ‘It’s a wonderful life’.

Gbr23 · Post by **Gbr23** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:22 am

That's a good response. Good for you Spring!

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:54 am

The pink ones always have such quick tempers - nothing punctuates a point like a punch.

DDeer · Post by **DDeer** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:19 am

Fox has really got some things to work through, good poems as always.

Cloudspots · Post by **Cloudspots** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:14 am

Seeing people say Fox deserved that. I am not one of them. I have too much experience with people pushing me to the point of total exasperation, and saying something stupid, then blaming me for saying the stupid thing when they practically begged for it.

Summer should have dragged Mungo in there with her, and slapped him instead.

Harry Johnathan · Post by **Harry Johnathan** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:44 am

Cloudspots wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:14 am I have too much experience with people pushing me to the point of total exasperation, and saying something stupid, then blaming me for saying it. Summer should have dragged Mungo in there with her, and slapped him instead.

Although I think that Fox's problems are a perfectly legitimate ordeal, I have dealt with far worse things, in a much better way. I've been beaten up by grown adults when I was only seven, been falsely diagnosed with schizo and got sick after taking the meds, been in over 7 different fostercares in under a year because I kept running away, have been bullied for a speech impediment, been held back one grade, watched his uncle die, stayed in a group home, been poisoned, starved for months because we couldn't afford food or water, and have had my bodily integrity betrayed in the most unthinkanle way imaginable by someone I trusted. Fox, at most, has been rejected by a girl he only fell for the day before he tried to ask her out, realized his best friend was having an affair with a cat, and been denied the bragging rights for "solving" a case. If anything, a lot of his suffering has been his own doing. I was seven when most of those things happened to me. I had no control over my life, and, being only 7 years older, I still don't. If I could deal with those problems and not pin the blame on those trying to help me, so can Fox. Although I do agree, Spring punching him was kinda uncalled for.

Macsen · Post by **Macsen** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:45 am

So who's really to blame for this? Spring and Summer, for allowing a mortal (Fox) to fall in love with them and then permitting the relationship to linger after Temple Crashers 2? Or Bahamut, for meting the pleasures of Paradise on mortals so freely?

I mean, there is some serious Fridge Horror with this situation. I'm of the position that Fox will be involved in the resolution of this arc somehow. But if the arc ended here and Fox was returned to Earth like this, he'd likely commit suicide to be with the heavenly huskies, which I think would put him in the bad place.

Post by **SeanWolf** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:06 am

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Fox deserved that slap for the way he was acting this arc. Wanting happiness like everyone else is fine but wanting to be dead in order to be happy and with the two he loves? I'm not surprised Spring's slap didn't send him through the wall.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:29 am

Macsen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:45 am I'm of the position that Fox will be involved in the resolution of this arc somehow.

Isn't the arc "you're stuck in heaven until Pete, Dragon and Kitsune can close the literal hells'gate"?

Nathan Kerbonaut · Post by **Nathan Kerbonaut** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:52 am

Oh, Fox... you're a complicated case.

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:34 am

Macsen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:45 am So who's really to blame for this? Spring and Summer, for allowing a mortal (Fox) to fall in love with them and then permitting the relationship to linger after Temple Crashers 2? Or Bahamut, for meting the pleasures of Paradise on mortals so freely?

I mean, there is some serious Fridge Horror with this situation. I'm of the position that Fox will be involved in the resolution of this arc somehow. But if the arc ended here and Fox was returned to Earth like this, he'd likely commit suicide to be with the heavenly huskies, which I think would put him in the bad place.

Apparently, Spring and Summer went to a different school of therapeutic counseling than Mungo..... While Fox's depression is disturbing, there is a logic to it. Physical assault is out of bounds, General Patton.

GameCobra · Post by **GameCobra** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:23 am

Divine intervention!

Macsen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:45 am So who's really to blame for this? Spring and Summer, for allowing a mortal (Fox) to fall in love with them and then permitting the relationship to linger after Temple Crashers 2? Or Bahamut, for meting the pleasures of Paradise on mortals so freely?

I mean, there is some serious Fridge Horror with this situation. I'm of the position that Fox will be involved in the resolution of this arc somehow. But if the arc ended here and Fox was returned to Earth like this, he'd likely commit suicide to be with the heavenly huskies, which I think would put him in the bad place.

Heaven is, but i'm pretty sure there's a solution to this problem as well in Heaven. I'm just surprised they haven't thought of it yet.

But then again, not everyone can be like Breel.

Leotamer · Post by **Leotamer** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:30 am

I almost don't want to comment in this chapter and just wait on the next one, but I do want to get my thoughts out: I do think the slap was not good for Fox, and will probably make me think less of Spring.

So, another summary of events: Fox was anxious while in Heaven, and so choose to go therapy. After a few hours of relaxing, he started vocalizing his anxiety and got a really bad therapist visit. Then when he left, and he tried to open up again, he got booted to the waiting room. And now he tries to open up to a person he deeply trusts, probably being more frank than he has before, and he gets slapped and is told he is talking stupid and deserved it.

If this is leading to the arc title drop, then I think it would be good character writing otherwise I need to see.

TheOne · Post by **TheOne** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:03 am

Cloudspots wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:14 am Seeing people say Fox deserved that. I am not one of them. I have too much experience with people pushing me to the point of total exasperation, and saying something stupid, then blaming me for saying the stupid thing when they practically begged for it.

Summer should have dragged Mungo in there with her, and slapped him instead.

Yeah, this isn't the first knock that Fox has received. First from Summer, but not the first blow. I can imagine a certain response.

Fox: "I know there will be consequences! The one thing life has taught me constantly since puppyhood is that life doesn't allow me to remain happy. Oh suuuuure, I can occasionally grasp a whisp of contentment, but as soon as I start to enjoy it, I mean really enjoy it, that opportunity is TAKEN FROM ME! What happened a minute ago is yet another example. You and Spring are the best thing that ever happened to me. And now, it looks like I'm going to be denied again.

Is it so wrong for me to want to be with you? That's all I want! It doesn't matter to me whether you stay with me or I stay with you. I would be elated either way. But, I know there are rules. You probably can't just leave here. And how could I ask you to do that, anyway? Asking you to stay with me would mean you leaving this perfect place. I'd be selfish to ask. So, the only reasonable thing–the only selfless thing–for me to do, is to sacrifice myself. I can't ask you to come to me, so I'll come to you."

Summer: "Oh. My. Gosh."

Spring: "You really feel that way? We had no idea!"

*Spring and Summer encircle Fox. Fluffy, sad, heart-stirring cuddles all around.*

Ash Greytree · Post by **Ash Greytree** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:34 am

Leotamer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:30 amFox was anxious while in Heaven, and so choose to go therapy. After a few hours of relaxing, he started vocalizing his anxiety and got a really bad therapist visit. Then when he left, and he tried to open up again, he got booted to the waiting room. And now he tries to open up to a person he deeply trusts, probably being more frank than he has before, and he gets slapped and is told he is talking stupid and deserved it.

This is where we differ in what we see from this. I see Fox's "vocalizing his anxiety" and "opening up" as him talking about how he wants to escape from what he perceives as a lack of being rewarded on Earth, when in reality it's a bad sense of entitlement with a dose of toxic masculinity thrown in as well. And when he has the chance to talk to Mungo, who's a certified therapy dog who wants to help him with some therapy, Fox gets angry and tries to escape from it.

It's very clear that Fox doesn't want to talk, and I'm pretty sure that even if it was Spring or Summer trying to talk to him about it, he'd still get angry and see it as some kind of betrayal. Fox has been talking and acting stupid, he definitely hurt the feelings of Mungo, one of his best friends who was just trying to do his actual real job, and he very much deserved that slap. He also deserved that slap for very clearly ignoring the advice on the letter that the two sent him, again in the same strip where Mungo said he's a certified therapy dog.

Fox has been due for some help for a good while now, whether he wants it or not. And he needs to face the consequences of ducking and weaving past all the chances that he's had to get that help for a long while now.

Leotamer · Post by **Leotamer** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:04 pm

I don't want to get to personal, but I can sympathise Fox and would like to justify that a bit more.

Being isolated can drain a person, and with Fox, the good dog club has became a parody of its former self, King and Bailey are busy with the pups, Spring and Summer are celestials and Mungo annoys him more often than not. Humans and dogs are both social animals by nature.

Not only that but when you are anxious, it can be very hard to put into words. Sometimes, you have no idea what the problem is. Other times, you know what it is but realize that is dumb and know you shouldn't worry about it but you still can't help it.

Fox was in the Heaven Resort, he could eat and swim to his heart's content, two of the things he mentioned before he got booted to the lobby. And he was still anxious, until he reunited with Spring and Summer.

And while Mungo might be a therapy dog, that doesn't mean he is a therapist who is a dog. Dog jobs have been shown to be taken less seriously than human ones, and considering how all he did was repeat stock therapy lines and had no ability to read the room, I don't think he has any former training in psychiatry.

Fox has other character flaws and psychology quirks, but it seems like the first thing he needs is a mortal friend who doesn't constantly emotionally tax him.

But we shall see where this road leads.

Cesco · Post by **Cesco** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:10 pm

Good that Spring is also there, but now I wonder where's that room and if they all got teleported there...

Ok, you're sorry of that, Spring, but it's not your fault. It's because of Mungo disturbing him, but it's also of Fox's mood, which is turning a bit too worrying now...

Yeah, why even say that stupid thing? That's a totally deserved slap.

I guess that an angel can be able to hurt someone on Heaven.

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:30 pm

I want to be careful here. This strip feels like a tango in a minefield.

I think we all agree Fox needs help, including Fox. His situation is deeply unhappy. That said, if I can echo Ash, I'm not persuaded that Fox is suicidal so much as exasperated to the depth of his soul. If he is running away from his problems (which he recognizes), his friends might be more helpful if they stopped chasing him and approached him with a bit more respect for his individuality.

Secondly, I'm not persuaded that he is not so much running away from therapy as he is running away from Mungo. We have no idea (or at least I don't) what kind of actual therapy Fox has had with Mungo but I think other experiences our husky has had with him have made Fox deeply, viscerally, instinctively, afraid of letting Mungo any deeper into his life than he already is. As a character, Mungo fits a certain "funny animal type" - comically over-eager, "doesn't know his own strength" strong and accident-prone, and mildly obsessive. On one hand, as a counselor, he's a good caricature of the profession.

On the other hand, asked to take him seriously as a therapist is transparently inviting disaster. In many of his experiences, Mungo reveals himself as bumbling, didactic, and intrusive. He seems to have no understanding at all of personal boundaries. At different times, Mungo has been invasive, physically looming, flirtatious, and maybe a little more "touchy-feely" than Fox wants. I'm not getting into the question of sexual attractions or tensions between the two of them, but if Mungo is trying to encourage Fox to come closer, sparks ain't flyin' yet. Simply put, whatever you think of Mungo as a comedy actor, he gives Fox a boatload of sound reasons to run from him as a professional healer. Either Mungo does evolve into a take-this-serious psychological counselor or, if we are to take Fox's pain for real, Mungo needs to give place to a different character with some actual ability to help.

As far as Summer and Spring go, I'll admit, they're not my cast favorites. They're shallow, bland, duplicative, and vapid, rarely serving much purpose in any narrative they appear except decorative and symbolizing reassurances for Fox's virility. In this current saga, their appearance (to me) seems tinged with a mix of enabling and entrapment. Like sirens, they beguile Fox into his fantasies which entertain with predictable cuddles and implied sensuality. The idea that they might engage Fox in their own exploration of his values and actions is never raised by his colorful enablers. Then Mungo springs up like an annoying Jack-in-the-box to - I don't know - stage a mock intervention. Fox, understandably, reacts with outrage and disgust.

Spring's violent reaction to Fox's expression of weary resignation shouldn't have surprised me, I guess, but it really did take me aback because it was so violent and unexpected. Her act struck me as a nuclear betrayal of trust, pointless and totally unwarranted. What should have been an invitation to a profound conversation was slammed with a fist and a sneer of belittlement. Such a loss of self-control strikes me as deeply out of character for a Celestial (although maybe a moment's reflection on Pete and Dragon's behavior might enlighten me a bit.) Maybe, along with a therapist, Fox needs to se an exorcist.

Whether or not Fox benefits from this "knockin' sense into his head", we'll see (I guess). However, the unprovoked striking of one person by another is abuse, an act of violence and domination, pure and simple.

Amazee Dayzee · Post by **Amazee Dayzee** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:05 pm

You know if I was in Fox's position and I got kicked out of heaven because I wanted to wait to die I would at least be a little glad ONE of my girlfriends showed up to try to comfort me.

Ash Greytree · Post by **Ash Greytree** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:08 pm

Fox walked into the room marked 'Therapy' written in all caps. The island scenario with Spring & Summer was likely designed to get him calm and into a state where he'd be willing to open up to a therapist, who is in this case Mungo, a certified therapy dog. The least that Fox could have done is realize that if Heaven trusts Mungo enough to hire him on and help others, including Fox who already trusts Mungo as his K-9 partner, then Fox should be able to trust Mungo to help him. Far from 'chasing' Fox, Mungo is merely doing his job here.

Mungo's presence was not intrusive or 'chasing' in this context here, that he's trying to do his job. It wasn't a 'mock intervention', but rather a legitimate therapy session, albeit with its own Heavenly quirks and maybe some of Bahamut going overboard.

With regards to Spring slapping Fox: In most fiction, slapping someone in a context like the one in this page and after the situation that transpired in the pages before it, is considered 'fair game' rather than 'abuse' or 'an act of violence and domination'. Fox messed up bad with his words and actions, and someone needed to show him that in a very clear manner.

I'm very curious where this conversation between Spring & Fox goes in the Christmas strip. I suspect it'll cover some of the topics of his character that we've been talking about here, and hopefully a revelation on Fox's part that at least starts him on the path to getting better. I remember my therapist told me a month or so back, matter-of-factly, that some of the techniques you're supposed to use to overcome anxiety and other issues sound cheesy, they are cheesy, but they do work. I think that Fox might need to reach that realization as well.

Amazee Dayzee · Post by **Amazee Dayzee** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:10 pm

I have a feeling he'll reach it faster with Spring rather than Mungo who would continue to rattle off therapist tropes.

Startrekfan47 · Post by **Startrekfan47** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:36 pm

"Teacher says, When a Fox gets slapped an angel gets her wings."

Post by **Obbl** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:02 pm

Couple things I'm seeing here.
1. Fox's life on earth is really good. Anyone saying that Fox never has anything good happen to him is falling into the same lie that Fox himself is falling into. Fox has a good home life, a best friend in King, the job that he has always wanted where he seems to be well received by his peers, the respect of the entire pet community (and even adoration if he wanted it), and he's in the best shape of his life (something he always wanted). Fox's life is positively charmed. Literally the only thing he doesn't have that he wants is a significant other. But as anyone can tell you, just getting the relationship isn't going to make him happy.

2. The slap has a particular use in media. It's reasonable to examine why we use violence in media and if it's a good idea, but the use of a slap as a wake up call when someone is going down a dark path is well established, and reading anything further into it in order to cast aspersion on Spring or suggest that this will drive Fox to further darkness is to completely ignore the clear and obvious intention of the author in using a well established trope.

3. Fox is hurting. He is also resisting the help that he needs in favor of running from his problems. He seems to believe that going to Heaven and being with Spring and Summer will simply make him happy, but that has never been true. As noted by Mr. Milton when Keene went to Heaven, people still have to improve themselves in Heaven, they just have an eternity to do so. And improving yourself can be painful at times. Fox is hurting, but he's not making it better by running.

4. Mungo doesn't seem to me to be very good at therapy. And maybe the humor wasn't landing with you, but to blame him for any of Fox's reactions is, to me, hyperbolic. Fox is being resistant to help because he's already decided what he needs, and that is to wait until death to be with his girlfriends and finally have a good life. For someone to try to help in a situation where help is obviously needed but fail due to their lack of ability, it seems that blaming such a person is far more harmful than recognizing that they failed but supporting their good natured desire to help. Blaming Spring and Summer for anything seems to be from out of deep left field when they've been nothing but supportive to a dog that they met in Heaven and enjoyed spending time with who then seemed to need some emotional support. There comes a point where you're just trying to blame someone for a perceived hurt and grasping at straws to do so, and this fully crosses that line for me

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:13 pm

Obbl wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:02 pm Couple things I'm seeing here.
1. Fox's life on earth is really good. Anyone saying that Fox never has anything good happen to him is falling into the same lie that Fox himself is falling into. Fox has a good home life, a best friend in King, the job that he has always wanted where he seems to be well received by his peers, the respect of the entire pet community (and even adoration if he wanted it), and he's in the best shape of his life (something he always wanted). Fox's life is positively charmed. Literally the only thing he doesn't have that he wants is a significant other. But as anyone can tell you, just getting the relationship isn't going to make him happy.

2. The slap has a particular use in media. It's reasonable to examine why we use violence in media and if it's a good idea, but the use of a slap as a wake up call when someone is going down a dark path is well established, and reading anything further into it in order to cast aspersion on Spring or suggest that this will drive Fox to further darkness is to completely ignore the clear and obvious intention of the author in using a well established trope.

3. Fox is hurting. He is also resisting the help that he needs in favor of running from his problems. He seems to believe that going to Heaven and being with Spring and Summer will simply make him happy, but that has never been true. As noted by Mr. Milton when Keene went to Heaven, people still have to improve themselves in Heaven, they just have an eternity to do so. And improving yourself can be painful at times. Fox is hurting, but he's not making it better by running.

4. Mungo doesn't seem to me to be very good at therapy. And maybe the humor wasn't landing with you, but to blame him for any of Fox's reactions is, to me, hyperbolic. Fox is being resistant to help because he's already decided what he needs, and that is to wait until death to be with his girlfriends and finally have a good life. For someone to try to help in a situation where help is obviously needed but fail due to their lack of ability, it seems that blaming such a person is far more harmful than recognizing that they failed but supporting their good natured desire to help. Blaming Spring and Summer for anything seems to be from out of deep left field when they've been nothing but supportive to a dog that they met in Heaven and enjoyed spending time with who then seemed to need some emotional support. There comes a point where you're just trying to blame someone for a perceived hurt and grasping at straws to do so, and this fully crosses that line for me

I respect your opinions, Obbl. I do not share them. Regards.

Harry Johnathan · Post by **Harry Johnathan** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:34 pm

We've done it, gentlemen (and women). For the first time in years, we've managed to turn the forums into a warzone. Pick your side; carp's about to get nuts, we haven't seen this kind of insanity since the Trial in Heaven arc!

.....on second thought, that might not be a good idea. Please don't repeat the Trial in Heaven incident.

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:48 pm

Rydr Warklub wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:34 pm We've done it, gentlemen (and women). For the first time in years, we've managed to turn the forums into a warzone. Pick your side; carp's about to get nuts, we haven't seen this kind of insanity since the Trial in Heaven arc!

.....on second thought, that might not be a good idea. Please don't repeat the Trial in Heaven incident.

Not really, Rydr. At least, I'd like to think folks of good will can disagree - even disagree strongly - without breaking furniture or friendships. I'll concede the field rather than cause upset. After all, it's Christmas, I know I just might be wrong, and Sophie has showed up with her leash (at quarter to eleven, sheesh, sheltie girl!).

TheOne · Post by **TheOne** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:19 pm

I wonder if Mungo confused "therapy animal" with "therapist." There's definitely a difference.

Mungo definitely has a kind, compassionate demeanor. I don't want to throw his character under the bus, but I think he's too nice to really get to the bottom of Fox's issues. Mungo is certainly well-intentioned, but that alone definitely isn't enough.

That last panel in "Someone's Rocking My Dreamboat" could be an indication of how deeply Mungo feels without being an indication of the type of seriousness and/or style Mungo uses in therapy. I think Mungo is capable of taking things seriously, but he doesn't really seem to enjoy the serious style. Mungo seems to enjoy the sweet & loveable/friendly/childish approach.

What Fox needs, though, is basically a recording-level microphone. He doesn't need to proclaim anything to the world, but he needs to vent without anyone being there to be offended. (Personally, I think his comment in "Booted to Lobby" wasn't exactly sarcasm, but a bit of a self-depreciating joke. Basically, "Ha ha; I can't make it in the real world, so I'll just make the most of what I can get here.") Basically, Fox needs a half hour or so by himself to just work out his thoughts.

It's actually perfectly normal to talk to oneself, despite what other people may tell you. That's what I think Fox needs. He has a lot of stuff floating around in his head, and he needs to verbalize it to himself, so he can make a decision.

Leotamer · Post by **Leotamer** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:29 pm

So I had a long post lost to the digital ether and another where I just lost my train of thought half way through. Trying to keep this to one or two paragraphs, I don't think that Spring is a bad character or even a bad person, but she is starting to show signs of being a bad celestial.

She choose to remain in contact with Fox after he unwillingly forgot about her. She bares some responsibility for the happenings as she was either a part of his therapy or intruding on it. There is unequal power dynamic between the two, and it appears as though she has used it to physically hurt him and then berate him while he was at his lowest point. While the wake-up slap is a literary trope, there is a massive whiplash between cuddling (naked from Fox's perspective) on the beach and asking what is wrong, and then person getting angry, starting to tell you are talking stupid and deserved to be hurt. There wasn't any attempt to talk through or hug out it out before she immediately went to slap him and get angry, when Fox has never seen her angry before adding to the stark contrast.

I am almost reminded of Dragon, though we have only seen a brief snapshot so that might be a nasty judgment.

Post by **D-Rock** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:45 pm

I doubt that Spring and Summer are Celestials. The use of a halo when they were on earth, used by the other deceased mortals, seems to be a sting clue against them being celestials.

ZAR22 · Post by **ZAR22** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:46 pm

dr_eirik wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:08 am While I feel for Fox, I think that he rather deserved that. Maybe needed that. Someone has to get through that this skull of his, wrapped as it is with self pity, to get him on the right track

But I don't think SLAPPING is the right way, no matter what (unless they truly lost it and or taking it out on others or it will hurt others (potentially)). You don't put your hands on someone else's body, period. I don't care if you are friend, partner, or family. Coming from my experience, slapping someone won't guarentee it will help, in from what I seen wilk make it worse.

While i understand the intent, very bad execution IMO. Spring goes down in my list of favorites.

Also, how CAN he feel PAIN though? I don't care, "stupid" is subjective, so there shouldn't be away to feel physical pain...

Post by **Obbl** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:53 pm

See the thing is, it's not out of the blue if you've been reading this whole arc with the idea that Fox is being stubborn and wrongheaded. That he is feeling entitled to a partner who will make him happy and that he believes only death will grant him this. If that's been your view this whole arc, then we've had 7 strips of Fox desperately needing a wake up call (on top of the prior character development wherein he has needed a wake up call a handful of times already) leading to this slap. Did that translate to everyone? No, clearly not

But that's on the writing not on the characters themselves. Phrasing it as character flaws causes far more division than discussing whether or not the narrative works for you

ZAR22 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:46 pm But I don't think SLAPPING is the right way, no matter what

I myself wonder if maybe we need to retire the idea of "knocking some sense" into someone. It doesn't actually work in real life, and seems to legitimize violence in a way that is uncomofortable with people

Amazee Dayzee · Post by **Amazee Dayzee** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:55 pm

While in most cases I agree that slapping someone won't help them and only proceed to make the situation more volatile, I have a feeling that Spring smacking Fox really did begin to get some sense into him.

ZAR22 · Post by **ZAR22** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:34 am

Obbl wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:53 pm See the thing is, it's not out of the blue if you've been reading this whole arc with the idea that Fox is being stubborn and wrongheaded. That he is feeling entitled to a partner who will make him happy and that he believes only death will grant him this. If that's been your view this whole arc, then we've had 7 strips of Fox desperately needing a wake up call (on top of the prior character development wherein he has needed a wake up call a handful of times already) leading to this slap. Did that translate to everyone? No, clearly not But that's on the writing not on the characters themselves. Phrasing it as character flaws causes far more division than discussing whether or not the narrative works for you

I disagree with being "entitled", but much more in a sense of desperately wanting a partner, which I can relate. Imagine if you were king (without bailey) your whole life, having crushes, never dating or getting to be romantic, constant rejection and having bit of sasha's abusive parent on the emotional (and little bit physical) level, and being that weird "loser"/"nerd" kid no one liked. Then, for ONCE in your whole miserable existence you find someone who you think loves you, someone who builds up yourself self esteem, someone you can finally have intimacy with. Then when you are at your lowest, think about taking your life (suicidal depression), and you tell one of the few people you trust your feelings with, YOU GET SLAPPED. You know how insulting and a betrayal of trust that it? Imo that sounds eerily close, if not outright, ABUSE. Yes, fox SHOULD not have these thoughts and should think everything out with someone, but not at the coast of being slapped and calling stupid. As someone who had faced depression almost to the point of suicide, do you know what a slap like that would do to someone like me? That wouldn't stop me, that would influence me to want to do it more (not to go to heaven, but just stop feeling any emotion. Even if it's pure physical nervous system pain, it would keep me from emotional pain and the memories).

Obbl wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:53 pm
ZAR22 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:46 pm But I don't think SLAPPING is the right way, no matter what
I myself wonder if maybe we need to retire the idea of "knocking some sense" into someone. It doesn't actually work in real life, and seems to legitimize violence in a way that is uncomofortable with people

yes, I do think it should be mostly retired unless it is actually warranted (ie mad island dude trying to kill or attack you, or someone, or hurt someone, or it's a life or death situation that needs someone to snap back into the moment of saving others).

But imagine in the old times when a women was complaining or being emotional, and a man just slapped her to bring her back to her "senses" by being quiet and less emotional.

(Older 1900's) Woman nagging and getting upset with you for something YOU find petty and senseless? Slap her.

(Older 1900's) Woman doesn't want to kiss and do the dirty stuff with a husband who comes home drunk and perverty, or just doesn't sex that night? "Is this women out of her mind?!?! I am the man, we are married, married people do this" - man, which he slaps her.

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While I don't think anyone disagrees fox needs help, and needs to come to his sense, what is deemed loosing your mind is partly subjective to society and culture perspective, and may change over time. What was morally right in the past (even though it is wrong) for some societies, has thankfully changed to a modern view of what I feel society SHOULD view as wrong, aka those awful things in the past that some societies that was ok.

Amazee Dayzee · Post by **Amazee Dayzee** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:09 pm

If Spring and Summer had been mortals instead of Celestials like some people are starting to think than maybe they came from an era where it was acceptable to slap someone who was basically wishing suicide.

Post by **Obbl** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:33 pm

There really isn't a need to justify the slap. It's had a long winding history and it doesn't sit well with some people, and that's fine

Amazee Dayzee · Post by **Amazee Dayzee** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:37 pm

I know I was just pointing out a different perspective of why she thought it would work. Not that it was justified.