2019/12/23 - The Witness Badger

Post by **Dissension** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:47 am

[ The Witness Badger ]

Title Text: you never listened to me before, why would you start now

Ah, yes, the ol' "force them to ramp up spending, draining their resources till they're bankrupt and fall apart like the Soviet Union" gambit

Gbr23 · Post by **Gbr23** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:03 am

Ok but how he did it?

dr_eirik · Post by **dr_eirik** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:05 am

So, Steward is behind... something. The larger plot and with Thomas apparently.

Now the question is, did he already do this? Or was this his plan to start? And did he transform our duo himself? Or who helped?

leinglo · Post by **leinglo** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:07 am

Okay now I'm wondering just how many other ex-human animals are running around right now. The "dozens and hundreds" line is hyperbole, sure, but how many other people has Steward transformed with that coin?

dr_eirik · Post by **dr_eirik** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:08 am

leinglo wrote:Okay now I'm wondering just how many other ex-human animals are running around right now. The "dozens and hundreds" line is hyperbole, sure, but just how many other people has Steward transformed with that coin?

Is it hyperbole or is there a plan in motion already that cant be stopped? Will they wake tomorrow with a town full of animals?

Char89Charizard · Post by **Char89Charizard** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:09 am

So Steward did it in an attempt to make Milton go bankrupt over having too many animals in the ECP, just to prove a point? What a jerk. If Milton press charges, they'll have to throw Steward in the zoo or worse, the animal shelter.

EDIT: Also since the gold came from Pete's temple, only he can change them back. But he can't since he is forced to be mortal for a long time, thanks to Kitsune. So part of the blame goes to him. Unless there's a way to break the curse, I'm afraid Marion will have to stay a squirrel and Lois will have to stay a bobcat. To be fair they looked cuter that way.

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:12 am

DRUMROLL
Theories
Is Steward A Villain: YES. CHECK

Steward's Goal: Regaining his Old Life and/or Revenge CHECK

Did He Change Marion: No (Yeah, now I'm not sure) X

Who Changed Marion and Lois: Mastermind or another new supernatural character that has not been introduced. X

The Marion & Lois Part
-Keene is unhelpful but leads them to Kitsune who provides more accurate information while Keene helps deal with the arrangements for Lois and Marion.
--The Miltons try to come up with a solution to prevent the media and masses from finding out about this to prevent any negative backlash.
--The Miltons curve the media by making sure that they are not to blame but bolster the ECP during this potential crisis by making them look like heroes by taking care of the therianthropes.

The Steward Part
-Steward steps out of the shadows and forces Keene to take him back as the media begins to blame him for both Lois and Marion's sudden and random transformations
-Steward plans on using this transformation outbreak to find a way to access a source of magic to change back to human
-Steward goes behind Keene's back and starts transforming humans into animals for the ECP to get back into Keene's good graces.
-Steward found an ally with another character and together plot to take down the ECP and/or change back to human CHECK (I mean if he changed more people then he has to be working with someone.)

The real take away is that this entire arc was in fact well crafted. Hooray.

And Keene is just now figuring it out it was him. Not surprising but still a little sad.

How many people did he transform? How did he do it?

LunarFox · Post by **LunarFox** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:16 am

Char89Charizard wrote:So Steward did it in an attempt to make Milton go bankrupt over having too many animals in the ECP, just to prove a point? What a jerk. If Milton press charges, they'll have to throw Steward in the zoo or worse, the animal shelter.

EDIT: Also since the gold came from Pete's temple, only he can change them back. But he can't since he is forced to be mortal for a long time, thanks to Kitsune. So part of the blame goes to him. Unless there's a way to break the curse, I'm afraid Marion will have to stay a squirrel and Lois will have to stay a bobcat. To be fair they looked cuter that way.

Yes they do!

---

So apparently whoever thought Lois got spat at was right....

Steward decides to give in, at last,
So finally, we get some clues,
The time for answers has now passed,
Badger, it's time for you to pay your dues.

Looks like holding the coin won't change them, no,
Despite all the speculation, all the wonder.
So as for how many more, we don't know,
And Keene's mind's all set asunder.

He's caught, he's busted, that's said and done,
Now just one more answer still to be had,
And getting it won't be fun,
Steward, you're caught, don't be mad.

I think it was the camel, he spat the gold,
But why these two? We still don't know, that's yet to be told.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:17 am

Ominous.

dr_eirik wrote:
leinglo wrote:Okay now I'm wondering just how many other ex-human animals are running around right now. The "dozens and hundreds" line is hyperbole, sure, but just how many other people has Steward transformed with that coin?
Is it hyperbole or is there a plan in motion already that cant be stopped? Will they wake tomorrow with a town full of animals?

Probably not tomorrow, if that's the plan, but if Stew isn't bluffing, probably soon. Soon-ish.

The only point where I REALLY question Stew's judgement is "Your selective hearing is why I teamed up with Thomas." Did Steward not know Thomas's history or something? I mean, didn't Thomas run multiple companies into the ground because of poor financing? Why would Steward think he would be any better with the money than Keene?

Legotron123 · Post by **Legotron123** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:17 am

There’s absolutely more to this. Lois was nowhere near Steward or any of the coins when she changed, so unless the curse is infectious, there’s no way he could’ve turned her. I’m not even entirely certain he turned Marion. His speech comes off more as “I kept this coin away from you because you’d drive yourself to ruin” than “this is my evil plan.”

Champion Wallace · Post by **Champion Wallace** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:18 am

I wonder how Keene didn't know Steward was a badger. Surely there are enough cameras/guards something saw him leave with his (new) tail between his legs.

Dissension wrote:Ah, yes, the ol' "force them to ramp up spending, draining their resources till they're bankrupt and fall apart like the Soviet Union" gambit

I'm not so sure that's it at all anymore. Steward is berating Keene for draining resources, not saying that was his plan. In the last panel he's saying in his sarcastic way he wasn't trying to be evil to Keene. Embezzalment is often repeated as Steward's wrongdoing, but where does it actually say that. The closest I could find was "everything" was caught on camera which could be referring to conspiring with Thomas for the burglary. He's still no Bat-Bat, but could it appears Steward did everything because he genuinely wanted to fulfill his court-ordered role to prevent the Miltons going bankrupt.

Rikunda · Post by **Rikunda** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:20 am

My head is not able to process... So it actually is as simple as we thought?

Something that doesn't add up is Thomas. I think that comment was about their old deal, and not the new one. It is easy to think it since she transformed in front of his cage, but there is just something... Not seeming right.

As the temple was created for the game, and the coins were also used in the game... And the game is over... You would think the temple would have been erased by Kitsune but he didn't... He didn't remove any of their acts on Earth. Could it be a new game or a game within a game? Maybe Kitsune is just lazy with clean up.

HundKatzeMaus · Post by **HundKatzeMaus** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:23 am

Rikunda wrote:As the temple was created for the game, and the coins were also used in the game... And the game is over... You would think the temple would have been erased by Kitsune but he didn't... He didn't remove any of their acts on Earth. Could it be a new game or a game within a game? Maybe Kitsune is just lazy with clean up.

No the magic is still there as we saw in the second Temple crushers.
I think Thomas just took out more coins out of the temple than just this one. Maybe he gave those coins to other animals and they help Thomas and Steward, maybe even without knowing.

dr_eirik · Post by **dr_eirik** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:28 am

Champion Wallace wrote:I wonder how Keene didn't know Steward was a badger. Surely there are enough cameras/guards something saw him leave with his (new) tail between his legs.
Dissension wrote:Ah, yes, the ol' "force them to ramp up spending, draining their resources till they're bankrupt and fall apart like the Soviet Union" gambit
I'm not so sure that's it at all anymore. Steward is berating Keene for draining resources, not saying that was his plan. In the last panel he's saying in his sarcastic way he wasn't trying to be evil to Keene. Embezzalment is often repeated as Steward's wrongdoing, but where does it actually say that. The closest I could find was "everything" was caught on camera which could be referring to conspiring with Thomas for the burglary. He's still no Bat-Bat, but could it appears Steward did everything because he genuinely wanted to fulfill his court-ordered role to prevent the Miltons going bankrupt.

That doesn't fly with the attempt to steal the gold, which was what Thomas and Ceila realized was the missing billions. If he wanted just to keep the money secure, I'm sure there were other legal avenues. Stealing the gold would have at least been grand theft. I though it was hinted at that he was also helping to embezzle.

This plan was obviously concocted sometime after he transformed, and does sound like he planned on bankrupting the Miltons by flooding the ECP with humans turned animals. Or, as my fevered brain considered, animals coached by Steward to act like transformed humans.

Everything he did before his transformation was not evil, it was self interest and likely harmless to everyone, including the Milton's since it was unspendable money anyway. His revenge scheme tips him over the edge since it would destroy so many lives.

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:33 am

dr_eirik wrote:
Champion Wallace wrote:I wonder how Keene didn't know Steward was a badger. Surely there are enough cameras/guards something saw him leave with his (new) tail between his legs.
Dissension wrote:Ah, yes, the ol' "force them to ramp up spending, draining their resources till they're bankrupt and fall apart like the Soviet Union" gambit
I'm not so sure that's it at all anymore. Steward is berating Keene for draining resources, not saying that was his plan. In the last panel he's saying in his sarcastic way he wasn't trying to be evil to Keene. Embezzalment is often repeated as Steward's wrongdoing, but where does it actually say that. The closest I could find was "everything" was caught on camera which could be referring to conspiring with Thomas for the burglary. He's still no Bat-Bat, but could it appears Steward did everything because he genuinely wanted to fulfill his court-ordered role to prevent the Miltons going bankrupt.
That doesn't fly with the attempt to steal the gold, which was what Thomas and Ceila realized was the missing billions. If he wanted just to keep the money secure, I'm sure there were other legal avenues. Stealing the gold would have at least been grand theft. I though it was hinted at that he was also helping to embezzle.

This plan was obviously concocted sometime after he transformed, and does sound like he planned on bankrupting the Miltons by flooding the ECP with humans turned animals. Or, as my fevered brain considered, animals coached by Steward to act like transformed humans.

Everything he did before his transformation was not evil, it was self interest and likely harmless to everyone, including the Milton's since it was unspendable money anyway. His revenge scheme tips him over the edge since it would destroy so many lives.

The cameras never would have caught him transforming so there was never any way of Keene knowing the truth. Even if they spotted a Badger with glasses on the grounds, Keene would have no way to prove that Thomas managed to smuggle a coin or that Steward was now in procession of it.

Embezzlement did make the most sense but there was never any evidence to prove what he was actually guilty of or why he was running. I mean he teamed up with Thomas for something and that something was to rob the temple. The question really is what did Steward get out of the deal? That was never made clear.

Yes, Steward was evil. He sought to ruin many lives. I was right about that. I should have really stuck to my guns at the beginning of the arc instead of flip flopping for seven months. At this point my early theory about Stewards underground chamber full of transformed humans might be right after all.

Legotron123 · Post by **Legotron123** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:33 am

The more I think about this storyline, the more I realize how little we’ve actually learned over the past almost year of comics. We still have no idea who turned Marion and Lois into animals, we have no idea why they did, we don’t even know how they were turned into animals. We’ve all been assuming there’s some intelligent force behind this that’s using the cursed coins, but there actually isn’t any evidence that supports that. It’s just as likely this is some sort of magical plague that escaped from Tarot’s study.

IceKitsune · Post by **IceKitsune** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:35 am

I'm not sure how this would work exactly. By the time they have enough animals to bankrupt them there would be enough evidence that people are being turned into animals by someone and the ECP would get more resources put into it to help them. Or it would become redundant as something else, likely run by the government, supplants it; also similar organizations would pop up if not the government. I mean maybe he wanted to trick people into thinking that the Milton's were doing it getting them arrested and the ECP shut down? If that was the case though he didn't seem to be doing anything to drive that idea. Thomas only thought about it later on.

Lockely · Post by **Lockely** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:37 am

I'm sure on Weds we're going to find out just how deep this plan goes, but maybe Thomas kept a bunch more coins in his mouth than just the one? Even then, people would start noticing if random zoo visitors were turning into animals (or if there were just a *ton* more animals suddenly out of cages, claiming to be human.) Either this plan is in its severely early stages or there's a third party involved.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:41 am

Xane wrote:I always felt like Keene was overzealous but not ignorant of how much money they were spending. He was always part of the conversation whenever it came to money, even attempting to get out of paying taxes with the state fair. Yeah, he probably spent way too much on all those legal battles but Steward makes it sound like they're almost out of money. I'm not sure how I'd feel if that was actually true. I always figured those 12 manufacturing plants were for the most profitable things in the world, like Pupsi-Cola, rubber bands, and ferret-proof power cords, so they would have an unimaginable amount of money coming in on top of what was already left. A few hundred animals trying to enter Society would hardly be a dent in all of that. On top of accidental stock explosions.

Well, the ferrets were super wasteful with lots of other aspects of money. There's an upper limit to how much money they could spend vs. the income. People like to think when you own a giant corporation, the income is limitless because CEOs give themselves millions of dollars in salaries, plus bonuses, but the truth is, CEOs that do that run their companies into the ground sooner or later. The reason why so many long-lasting companies went under in the last few years? Exactly that: CEOs taking tons of money out of the company and not investing it back in. It takes a while when companies get huge, but it is inevitable, once shareholders and top executives think they have the right to take whatever money the company makes. Which, in the most technical sense, they do have that right, since they own the company, but the thing about having rights is that you can't escape consequences. Not forever anyway.

Anyway, something about the wording of all this . . . could Steward have actually been trying to keep the coin AWAY from Keene because he thought Keene would turn the world into animals? That's would be a potentially interesting twist, but it doesn't quite jive with Steward finding Marion's name to be "interesting. Very interesting," or the way he was trying to push Marion toward the ECP. On the other hand, Steward bankrupting the ECP by sending him animals willing to join is still a viable plan.

Also: larger than average pages for the wrap up. Should have expected that, since just about every long-running arc has done this. I even mentioned it in a previous post. That smooths out the pacing issues a bit better. Though I am still curious as to what the next page is going to cover and how it's going to go about it. What info are we going to get out of Steward. Will he maintain silence on the how and just leave Keene on this ominous note that goes right over his head? Is there something else that he's going to hint at? Will we ever find out what Karishad's alibi was way back in part 2?
Find out next time, I guess.

Legotron123 · Post by **Legotron123** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:43 am

Lockely wrote:I'm sure on Weds we're going to find out just how deep this plan goes, but maybe Thomas kept a bunch more coins in his mouth than just the one? Even then, people would start noticing if random zoo visitors were turning into animals (or if there were just a *ton* more animals suddenly out of cages, claiming to be human.) Either this plan is in its severely early stages or there's a third party involved.

If Lois was turned by a coin, either she would’ve noticed someone brushing up against her immediately before she changed, or she would’ve noticed being hit by something before changing. At this point, there’s no candidate for whose behind this that’s supported by the evidence. There’s not even sufficient evidence to suggest that the coins are what caused them to turn.

Welsh Halfwit · Post by **Welsh Halfwit** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:45 am

So, the answer is Keene didn’t know
Steward was living quite so close by?
It makes sense, as fans can relate;
sometimes truth is just pie in the sky.
Marion now possesses a rare coin
that he can’t do anything good with.
He still doesn’t know who did it
or if he’ll chose to avenge or forgive.
He allied with Thomas in history
which continues on the big day;
the present of explanations is given;
I wonder what he will say?

dr_eirik · Post by **dr_eirik** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:46 am

fenrirblack wrote:
Yes, Steward was evil. He sought to ruin many lives. I was right about that. I should have really stuck to my guns at the beginning of the arc instead of flip flopping for seven months. At this point my early theory about Stewards underground chamber full of transformed humans might be right after all.

I wonder if the large number of animals in the treehouse right now were former humans. We didnt meet a single one, and I think it was said to be about 30 others. Though that would mean a LOT of missing persons in town.

Lockely · Post by **Lockely** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:50 am

Legotron123 wrote:
Lockely wrote:I'm sure on Weds we're going to find out just how deep this plan goes, but maybe Thomas kept a bunch more coins in his mouth than just the one? Even then, people would start noticing if random zoo visitors were turning into animals (or if there were just a *ton* more animals suddenly out of cages, claiming to be human.) Either this plan is in its severely early stages or there's a third party involved.
If Lois was turned by a coin, either she would’ve noticed someone brushing up against her immediately before she changed, or she would’ve noticed being hit by something before changing. At this point, there’s no candidate for whose behind this that’s supported by the evidence. There’s not even sufficient evidence to suggest that the coins are what caused them to turn.

Well, we have Steward's claim. I don't think he'd be claiming this out of the blue, and Lois *was* there was Thomas when it happened. Remember the 'bird' we saw flying away in the panel Lois 'poofd' in? Possibly a third actor, carrying a coin brushed passed her with it. But even assuming that might be true, that still doesn't solve the Marion question as he was in bed when it happened.

Again though, I assume we're going to find out way more the rest of this week.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:54 am

Oh, Rick, if you were trying to make a pun on "badgering the witness" with your title, I feel "The Badgering Witness" might have worked better. Because he's badgering the person asking questions.
Just a thought.

Legotron123 · Post by **Legotron123** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:02 am

Lockely wrote: Well, we have Steward's claim. I don't think he'd be claiming this out of the blue, and Lois *was* there was Thomas when it happened. Remember the 'bird' we saw flying away in the panel Lois 'poofd' in? Possibly a third actor, carrying a coin brushed passed her with it. But even assuming that might be true, that still doesn't solve the Marion question as he was in bed when it happened.

Again though, I assume we're going to find out way more the rest of this week.

Steward’s not claiming he and Thomas are behind this. Him mentioning “teaming up” with Thomas is clearly a reference to his previous scheme that lead Keene to firing him in the first place. If anything, his dialogue seems to suggest that he thinks Keene is the one turning humans into animals. Plus, there’s nothing to suggest that bird is anything other than a random background detail. We have plenty of theories and assumptions, but there’s almost nothing we know for certain about any of this.

Llor Drei · Post by **Llor Drei** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:06 am

Can the witness badger himself?

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:08 am

Now that is it all almost over lets take this opportunity to review what has happened and we're we go from here.

Marion wakes up as a squirrel. Don't know how Steward did it or how he managed to act so coy with Marion at Jess's house. Marion was kicked from his home and sought favor with Falstaff and Truck by getting a pie to earn a ticket to Jess's place. We meet Steward again who begins to shed light on his scheme to bring animals into the ECP. This present strip basically confirms that it was NOT out of the goodness of his heart but to bankrupt the Milton's or at least cause the ECP itself to collapse under the weight of the animals it sought to take in. This at least gives Steward the means and motive. Enter Lois, Fox, and Fido. They find Marion who runs away only to be caught and through a desperate and pathetic plea manages to convince her of who he is. Enter King who tells Keene. Marion joins the ECP and Steward's insane plan begins to bear fruit. Marion goes to school and we get a glimpse to not only Marion's future but the future of countless other therians who are now in the same boat. Marion is fed up with his first day as a squirrel student and together with Lois talk to Thomas. This is where things get odd, Lois is transformed but why? Was it a coincidence that she was transformed while talking to the one person who knew about the coin? They talk to Lana who denies any responsibility. Then they accuse Keene who denies any responsibility. They talk to Kitsune who in his infinite unhelpfullness gives them the clue that allows for the callback to Part 2 and ultimately Steward's arrest. It was a long seven months but each (mostly) each step was practical for the overall story and easily anticipated. We all saw this coming but sometimes you wanted to mix things up.

What next? That is a good question.
Steward's comment is odd about the dozens and hundreds of animals. There is no way he could have used the coin that much without someone noticing or coming forward sooner. True he had the coin for a year so its possible and likely that there are others but still. We should see who else was affected soon as we shift to the boarding house. I'd say 20-30 therians. IT would have to be a reasonable number to live in the Boarding house and Rick to be able to deal with and still be logical considering Steward had to literally touch each one with the coin. Steward may be been more referring to ferals joining not just therians. I don't know if we will ever get a satisfying "HOW he did it" but he had to be working with someone that would be the ultimate and obvious twist that allows the story to pick up at a later date. Anyway, what Keene decides to do now that he has the power to transform people (we've seen that there are those willing) is an interesting question. Possibly nothing but who knows.

One thing for certain is that a few things will happen. Laws will have to be changed as Steward's victims come forward and need a place to stay and want their rights back. The knowledge of Magic and Human-animal transformation will become even more wide spread and cause major media attention. This could work for Keene's favor as others (myself include at one time) might invest in the ECP which meant that without meaning too (or maybe he did oooooh) Steward did exactly Keene wanted and gave the ECP a much needed boost both financially and politically.

If this was somehow part of Stewards or whoever's plan that would be awesome. Some shadowy figure comes to Steward and tells him that he did exactly what he was supposed to do and Keene doesn't suspect a thing. Steward shoulders the blame while the true mastermind prospers. In return Steward gets some kind of perk or at least out of the overlycrowded treehouse.

Now that the old theory chart is done. Time for one last one to decide where Marion and Lois's story will lead when we pick this up in the future.

Marion and Lois
Unable to change back Marion and Lois resign to adapting to their new bodies and new chapter in their lives
--They go to college or decide to do an online program like Miles come fall.
--They decide to skip college until they are back to normal and help with the new ECP members
--They find regular jobs thanks to the ECP
--They move into the boarding house instead of continuing to live at home.

The Keene Part
Keene promises to fix things after he gets the rest of the therians changed by the coin someplace stable to live aka the Boarding House
-Keene also has to deal with the consequences of Steward's actions as well as avoiding taking too much blame for the fact that the coin that caused this mess was technically his.
-Keene has Steward thrown in human jail, the Zoo, or the Ferret Dungeon where he can no longer do any harm
-Keene searches for a magical solution to Fix Steward's mess which ultimately leads him to Egypt.
-Keene is corrupted by the coin and decides to follow Stewards example by offering humans the "choice" to become animals in an attempt to again force the government to change.

The Steward Part
Steward is done for the most part having been caught and unmasked as the villain Scooby Doo style
-Steward wasn't working alone and the partner is still out there
-Someone takes the mantle and continues to change humans into animals Jigsaw style
-This is only a temporary setback and Steward still has a major role to play down the line.
-All this was part of a fail-safe or the actual plan all along to boost the ECP and now that Steward is the "villain" someone else can continue to work from the shadows.

dr_eirik wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:
Yes, Steward was evil. He sought to ruin many lives. I was right about that. I should have really stuck to my guns at the beginning of the arc instead of flip flopping for seven months. At this point my early theory about Stewards underground chamber full of transformed humans might be right after all.
I wonder if the large number of animals in the treehouse right now were former humans. We didnt meet a single one, and I think it was said to be about 30 others. Though that would mean a LOT of missing persons in town.

That is a good point which would give another reason for Marion going to the treehouse and give Steward's odd comment more meaning.
Let's count off. Jess, Falstaff, Truck, Ink, Kari, Tiny Tum, Cory (maybe), Trinket (maybe), Zach (maybe), Cory's sister and her kids, Nix, Pete, Dragon, and Steward himself. 10 ferals so 20-ish therians.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:09 am

Llor Drei wrote:Can the witness badger himself?

If the witness responds to himself with provocative hostility, yes. Though I don't know if this has ever actually come up in court.

fenrirblack wrote:-Someone takes the mantle and continues to change humans into animals Jigsaw style

Okay, so now I'm imagining some animal dressed in a suit putting humans in elaborate death traps that can only be escaped by touching the magic transforming coin.
Bravo, sir, you have made me a very happy man.

Champion Wallace · Post by **Champion Wallace** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:26 am

I find it interesting how we can look at the same strip and come away with literal opposite interpretations. If Steward didn't change Marion and Lois but the proximal cause was gold like Kitsune indicated, then there must be more coins in circulation. I think it makes the most sense now that Thomas had his own "share" of cursed coins and that cursed Marion and Lois, as the ven diagram of "had access to cursed treasure", "would use it" and "not Steward" is rather small. Let's not forget Thomas literally had devil horns a strip before ironically predicting Lois's change. There's obviously no way for him to have gotten at Marion, so he must have associates. Whether he's the mastermind or just the progenitor of the organization can be up for debate.

Nobody wrote:The only point where I REALLY question Stew's judgement is "Your selective hearing is why I teamed up with Thomas." Did Steward not know Thomas's history or something? I mean, didn't Thomas run multiple companies into the ground because of poor financing? Why would Steward think he would be any better with the money than Keene?

Steward doesn't make teaming up with Thomas sound appealing. He might have had to work with him specifically despite his known incompetence because he had an axe to grind against the ferrets and Steward could leverage that.

dr_eirik wrote:That doesn't fly with the attempt to steal the gold, which was what Thomas and Ceila realized was the missing billions. If he wanted just to keep the money secure, I'm sure there were other legal avenues. Stealing the gold would have at least been grand theft. I though it was hinted at that he was also helping to embezzle.

It does fly if you think of the value of the curse instead of the value of the gold along with Legotron123's interpretation, "I kept this coin away from you because you’d drive yourself to ruin". The entire third panel is him saying he thought Keene wanted possession of the cursed coin. One of the theories bouncing around, even now, is that formerly-human animals joining the ECP could be good for the program. What if Steward didn't believe that but was afraid Keene did? The first think Keene did after nullifying a mysterious agreement about the temple was delve into it on an expedition. Steward could have know about the curse from all his time spent in the manner (and the snooping around). While Steward's low opinion of Thomas may not have been low enough to intentionally curse him, the condition was "no human hands" and Thomas went in with gloves.

Legotron123 · Post by **Legotron123** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:41 am

Champion Wallace wrote:
dr_eirik wrote:That doesn't fly with the attempt to steal the gold, which was what Thomas and Ceila realized was the missing billions. If he wanted just to keep the money secure, I'm sure there were other legal avenues. Stealing the gold would have at least been grand theft. I though it was hinted at that he was also helping to embezzle.
It does fly if you think of the value of the curse instead of the value of the gold along with Legotron123's interpretation, "I kept this coin away from you because you’d drive yourself to ruin". The entire third panel is him saying he thought Keene wanted possession of the cursed coin. One of the theories bouncing around, even now, is that formerly-human animals joining the ECP could be good for the program. What if Steward didn't believe that but was afraid Keene did? The first think Keene did after nullifying a mysterious agreement about the temple was delve into it on an expedition. Steward could have know about the curse from all his time spent in the manner (and the snooping around). While Steward's low opinion of Thomas may not have been low enough to intentionally curse him, the condition was "no human hands" and Thomas went in with gloves.

Exactly. Steward was worried that Keenes obsession with Animal Rights would bankrupt the Milton Foundation. That’s why he schemed with Thomas to try and get him out of the Chairman’s position, and that’s why he held onto the coin. He knew if Keene had a way to mass produce animals that wanted to have the same rights as humans, because they used to be human, he’d wind up bankrupting himself and ruining the legacy of Henry Milton. Though maybe that’s giving him too much credit.

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:42 am

Nobody wrote: Anyway, something about the wording of all this . . . could Steward have actually been trying to keep the coin AWAY from Keene because he thought Keene would turn the world into animals? That's would be a potentially interesting twist, but it doesn't quite jive with Steward finding Marion's name to be "interesting. Very interesting," or the way he was trying to push Marion toward the ECP. On the other hand, Steward bankrupting the ECP by sending him animals willing to join is still a viable plan.

Now that you point it out and after I made a very long post as well as several brags, that is a good point. Keeping the coin AWAY from Keene would mean he was never the bad guy. But that doesn't explain why he was so determined to bring animals to the ECP if he never had any intent to tear it down or bankrupt it or whatever. In this scenario he would still NOT want the ECP to succeed or bankrupt the Miltons even after what they did to him. If he wasn't responsible then who did and with what if Steward has the only known means of turning people into animals. Again I point to Lana.
Let's delve into this a little. Marion wakes up blah blah and meets Steward. That still feels like a lot of effort just for it NOT to be Steward doing the deed. A lot of work for one flashback to Steward with the coin at the Treehouse. That would be a lot of wasted effort to once again make him a even elaborate red-herring. You can look at that line that way but Keene's comment overrules that. This entire monologue screams "Hahaha, now my plan will continue as the ECP will be crushed under it's own weight" so I'm sticking with that.

Legotron123 · Post by **Legotron123** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:45 am

fenrirblack wrote:
Nobody wrote: Anyway, something about the wording of all this . . . could Steward have actually been trying to keep the coin AWAY from Keene because he thought Keene would turn the world into animals? That's would be a potentially interesting twist, but it doesn't quite jive with Steward finding Marion's name to be "interesting. Very interesting," or the way he was trying to push Marion toward the ECP. On the other hand, Steward bankrupting the ECP by sending him animals willing to join is still a viable plan.
Now that you point it out and after I made a very long post as well as several brags, that is a good point. Keeping the coin AWAY from Keene would mean he was never the bad guy. But that doesn't explain why he was so determined to bring animals to the ECP if he never had any intent to tear it down or bankrupt it or whatever. In this scenario he would still NOT want the ECP to succeed or bankrupt the Miltons even after what they did to him. If he wasn't responsible then who did and with what if Steward has the only known means of turning people into animals. Again I point to Lana.
Let's delve into this a little. Marion wakes up blah blah and meets Steward. That still feels like a lot of effort just for it NOT to be Steward doing the deed. A lot of work for one flashback to Steward with the coin at the Treehouse. That would be a lot of wasted effort to once again make him a even elaborate red-herring. You can look at that line that way but Keene's comment overrules that. This entire monologue screams "Hahaha, now my plan will continue as the ECP will be crushed under it's own weight" so I'm sticking with that.

I might be willing to buy this if he looked more smug while he was saying that, but he looks more frustrated and resigned then anything. He looks like he’s lost, not like he’s won.

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:03 am

Legotron123 wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:
Nobody wrote: Anyway, something about the wording of all this . . . could Steward have actually been trying to keep the coin AWAY from Keene because he thought Keene would turn the world into animals? That's would be a potentially interesting twist, but it doesn't quite jive with Steward finding Marion's name to be "interesting. Very interesting," or the way he was trying to push Marion toward the ECP. On the other hand, Steward bankrupting the ECP by sending him animals willing to join is still a viable plan.
Now that you point it out and after I made a very long post as well as several brags, that is a good point. Keeping the coin AWAY from Keene would mean he was never the bad guy. But that doesn't explain why he was so determined to bring animals to the ECP if he never had any intent to tear it down or bankrupt it or whatever. In this scenario he would still NOT want the ECP to succeed or bankrupt the Miltons even after what they did to him. If he wasn't responsible then who did and with what if Steward has the only known means of turning people into animals. Again I point to Lana.
Let's delve into this a little. Marion wakes up blah blah and meets Steward. That still feels like a lot of effort just for it NOT to be Steward doing the deed. A lot of work for one flashback to Steward with the coin at the Treehouse. That would be a lot of wasted effort to once again make him a even elaborate red-herring. You can look at that line that way but Keene's comment overrules that. This entire monologue screams "Hahaha, now my plan will continue as the ECP will be crushed under it's own weight" so I'm sticking with that.
I might be willing to buy this if he looked more smug while he was saying that, but he looks more frustrated and resigned then anything. He looks like he’s lost, not like he’s won.

Well he did still kinda lose and is being arrested. He could also be acting the part of bad guy. Either way, it still doesn't make sense for him to prevent Keene from using the coin to get recruits for ECP only to do it himself by recruiting ferals.

Let's take it line by line looking at each from both angles:

"But this is your gold, isn't it, Mr. Milton."
A) The very gold I used to destroy everything you built
B) The very gold you planned to use to transform as many humans as possible into animals

I Don't Know why You'd be unhappy. This is what you wanted.
A) You get more recruits to the ECP. They just happen to once be human
B) You can now get what you wanted, more animals in the ECP. No matter how many lives you have to ruin in the process.

This is what we fought over
A) I didn't want the ECP to succeed and now I rather see it crumble under your own hubris
B) I couldn't watch you ruin the company I spent years helping support and I'd rather die than watch you ruin it with your insane plan

Well you win
A) Now you get the animals you wanted and the ECP will grow until it can't anymore
B) Now you can change whoever you want

Now you get dozens and hundreds of animals....You think there's always more
A) I changed so many humans and they will have no choice to join the ECP ultimately leading to its destruction but you can't help yourself. You know that they're are even more humans and ferals alike who will be willing to join.
B) You can change as many humans as you want and they'll have no choice to join because you can't help yourself. You will keep doing it because you know that there are always more where those came from.

It's the "there's always more" part that doesn't make sense with the context. It makes more sense if he is assuming that Keene would be willing and was using the coin to transform as many people as possible. And I guess he could be striving to get the therians to join the ECP to help them because even if he wasn't responsible for changing them, he assumed that Keene did and Steward wants to help them by leading them to the one thing that could help them regain normal lives like Marion. That would mean that Steward is not only NOT the bad guy, but the HERO. AHHHH!!!!!

Ash Greytree · Post by **Ash Greytree** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:09 am

My understanding of what Steward is saying here is that he’s talking about when he teamed up with Thomas originally, in that one scheme, as Rikunda pointed out,and not recently. I think Thomas and Steward are acting on their own, individually, as of right now.

As is being discussed, the way Steward is talking to Keene it seems like Steward is saying “Now you have what you want with that coin; a way to get tons of ECP enrollees without any regard for how much that costs!” as if he isn’t the culprit, but rather believes that Keene and Co. hunted him down to get the coin to enact a plan to transform humans, get them to join the ECP, and so forth.

Steward trying to convince the treehouse denizens to join the ECP seemed to be out of 1) Pragmatism, wanting the treehouse to stay a viable home for him and his newfound neighbors as civilization encroaches, and 2) Maybe he still believes in the ECP but wanted an influx of members at a responsible rate and number, rather than a huge flood of them. The Treehouse would be of a responsible rate and number; a deluge of humans-turned-animals would not.

The wording in this strip, both the tone that I’m getting from Steward’s dialogue as well as his dejected expressions, leaves me betting on Steward not actually being the one who transformed Marion & Lois. All will likely be revealed in the Christmas timeskip. I’m really excited to see what our bobcat and squirrel will have been up to over those 6-7 months.

Jixstun · Post by **Jixstun** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:31 am

I initially thought Steward's "Dozens & Hundreds" Line was him saying that there were other coins (obtained from the Temple) & him having allies who were going to (or already had) use(d) them, but the alternate interpretation of him believing that Keene will want to use the coin(s) himself seems equally valid, at least from his perspective.

If there is a plot to transform more on Steward's part however... I can't help but be reminded that both Marion & Lois got lucky in that they became species who could still walk upright & have fingers. What's to say that an unlucky transformee wouldn't end up as a camel, horse, deer or cow?

Though I suppose with that last one, they'd at least save a fortune on milk.

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:44 am

Why can't he just be guilty and be done with it? Steward still being the red-herring makes everything ten times more complicated. I mean I admit that there really is no real confirmation that he changed anyone because Steward has yet to actually admit to anything. Like others have pointed out that his dialogue can be interrupted two ways. But Why? Why hide the coin but still try to get animals to join the ECP? If he never had anything personal against the ECP then why team up with Thomas to get to the gold? Steward still cut the finances to the ECP in order to hinder it in an attempt to get Keene to open the temple. Even if he still had nothing personal against the ECP he clearly states that he didn't want anymore animals to join because it would dry up the Milton finances so again I ask why send more his way? Even my earlier suggestion about Steward being a hero doesn't make sense because if he knew or suspected that Keene was somehow turning people into animals then that would mean Keene had alternate means of doing it therefore had no need for the coin and Steward hiding it was moot.

Of course there is still the fact that Steward has had no reasonable means of transforming Marion, Lois without some ridiculous plan involving birds or an Invisibility cloak. If Steward was trying to hide the coin then why go through all this trouble just to out him as the one with a the coin but not using it. Again we went through a lot of trouble to bring Steward and the coin into the plot. All to say "I was trying to prevent Keene from using it even thought he never had any intent to use it." All this just for an elaborate misunderstanding and to find out that he wasn't the one behind this. Then Marion is like "You didn't do it, and you didn't do it. Then who did? Because someone still did this to us deliberately. And if they didn't use the coin then how?"

Then there is something Erik pointed out. The Thirty-or-so animals living with Jess. We know of at least 11. That would mean that basically a bunch of new ferals moved in for no reason. But if they were therianthropes then at least Jess saying that and Rick upping the number so substantially would have a very important place in the story. If they are still therianthropes but not changed because of Steward then what was up with his comment about him answering every solicitor.

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:53 am

So THE COIN apparently doesn't reverse - but did it transform our teen victims in the first place? Hmmmm........

Champion Wallace · Post by **Champion Wallace** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:59 am

fenrirblack wrote:Let's delve into this a little. Marion wakes up blah blah and meets Steward. That still feels like a lot of effort just for it NOT to be Steward doing the deed. A lot of work for one flashback to Steward with the coin at the Treehouse. That would be a lot of wasted effort to once again make him a even elaborate red-herring.

As Ash Greytree talked about in the previous strip's discussion, If Steward is innocent then Part 2 still sets up the Woodland Critters's perspectives on the ECP while having some slice of (wild)life to compare to.

fenrirblack wrote:Let's take it line by line looking at each from both angles:...

Well done summarizing both sides.

fenrirblack wrote:It's the "there's always more" part that doesn't make sense with the context. It makes more sense if he is assuming that Keene would be willing and was using the coin to transform as many people as possible.

That stumped me at first, as why would Keene be in a position to say "no" if he did the transforming. Then I remembered Marion's classmates would volunteer to be part of the ECP. Stewards hypothetical in branch B) is something along the lines of there will be plenty of humans wanting a new life and you won't be able to say no to "cursing" and enrolling them despite not having enough money because you think there's always more money.

Ash Greytree wrote:As is being discussed, the way Steward is talking to Keene it seems like Steward is saying “Now you have what you want with that coin; a way to get tons of ECP enrollees without any regard for how much that costs!” as if he isn’t the culprit, but rather believes that Keene and Co. hunted him down to get the coin to enact a plan to transform humans, get them to join the ECP, and so forth.

If Steward thought Keene was desperately after the coin that would explain why he was frightened by seeing Keene even before the coin was mentioned.

fenrirblack wrote:Even my earlier suggestion about Steward being a hero doesn't make sense because if he knew or suspected that Keene was somehow turning people into animals then that would mean Keene had alternate means of doing it therefore had no need for the coin and Steward hiding it was moot.

Did Steward suspect Keene already had an alternate means of doing it or was seeking out any means of doing it?

fenrirblack wrote:Then there is something Erik pointed out. The Thirty-or-so animals living with Jess. We know of at least 11. That would mean that basically a bunch of new ferals moved in for no reason. But if they were therianthropes then at least Jess saying that and Rick upping the number so substantially would have a very important place in the story. If they are still therianthropes but not changed because of Steward then what was up with his comment about him answering every solicitor.

Steward was new-ish to the treehouse. The timeline doesn't work out if members that joined before him were transformed by him. I think the 30 number came about to remind us there forest is a big place with lots of unnamed characters (and for an excuse to show off the basement there has to be at least as many residents now as the old capacity).

Edit: Improved some wording.

VeryAngryDeer · Post by **VeryAngryDeer** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:27 am

At first my reaction was "Why, Steward, why did you do this to me?" as my hopes for a redemption arc fell apart.

But the more I look at the page, and read the views of other people on the forum, the more sure I am that his comment about "selective hearing" applies to the audience too. We were expecting Steward to be the villain (even if I didn't want him to be) so we were expecting his speech to bea villain monologue explaining his evil plan. Exactly what Keene was expecting, too.

This was still Steward explaining his motives, but let's try reading it from a charitable interpretation that assumes he didn't transform Marion and Lois.

"But this is your gold, isn't it, Mr Milton?"
The way he says it and his facial expression make this look like an accusation to me. "This is your gold, and you want it back, that's why you're here."

"I don't know why you'd be unhappy, this is what you wanted, this is what we fought over"
Others have read this as that they fought over the ECP. I think he's referring to the gold. It is, after all, what he was referring to in the previous sentence. Steward is confused that Keene appears to be playing dumb. Almost like he doesn't realise that Keene had no idea what was going on until King or Marion and Lois came to update him on the situation.

"Well you win. Now you get dozens and hundreds of animals,all ready to join the ECP"
Could mean that Steward transformed a bunch of people already... but wouldn't he know how many people he'd transformed? At the very least, he shouldn't have an estimate that varies by an order of magnitude. I think it means he believes Keene will use the coin in the future and he doesn't know how many he expects Keene to transform, only that its never enough.

"You just can't bring yourself to turn them down, no matter how much it costs, because there's always more"
Seems like a personal jab at Keene's irresponsibility with money. Steward knows that there isn't always more money, but he knows Keene acts like it'll never run out.

"You and your selective hearing is why I teamed up with Thomas"
At first this sounded like a confession that he had teamed up with Thomas tocarry out an evil plan to use the coin... but it makes way more sense for him to have been referring to the time he helped Thomas raid the Temple. From what we saw of Thomas, it looked like he was busy doing absolutely nothing in the zoo, and only came up with a viable revenge plan when Marion came along.

So, what is Steward's position on the ECP? Why was he helping it when he seems so bitter about it now? And what about how Fenrirblack noted that he cut finances to the ECP? How does that square? Lets start with the last one first. Steward cut finances to the ECP to provoke Keene. He had legal justifications for doing it, but the purpose was solely to get Keene to launch another expedition into the Temple. Steward had no stake in the ECP's success and no moral belief in it. Both of those situations may have changed since he was transformed into an animal. His stake in the ECP's success is the potential to get his rights back. Becoming an animal may have given him the perspective of what its like to not have human rights, making him challenge his moral position on the subject.

Why was he helping the ECP when he seems so bitter now? Well, going by the above, he may have changed his opinion about the ECP's fundamental goodness, but he still understands economics. He knows that the ECP would have to either be a charity, or self-sustaining (perhaps by acting as a loan which successful ECP members pay back once they're producing money.) He knows that the ECP cannot survive in its current form if the number of applicants skyrockets. This could mean that he had a plan to overwhelm the ECP, or it could mean that he wants the ECP to succeed so he can't allow Keene access to the means to overwhelm the ECP.

To answer the first question... I think Steward wants the ECP to succeed for moral and self-serving reasons. That means the ECP needs applicants, but it also can't have too many. So he was at the treehouse, trying to send a sustainable number of forest critters in the ECP's direction.

His concern here may be less about whether the goal of the ECP is good, but about how its done. Do the ends justify the means? He may think the ECP is good, but turning anyone into an animal in order to use them to reach your goal is evil.

And now, let's look at some of the past strips that made Steward look like a villain.
http://www.housepetscomic.com/wp-conten ... le-fox.png
Here, he turns away sweating, covering his face. He must be worried about Karishad recognising him. He probably came to realise that his badger status would prevent that.

http://www.housepetscomic.com/wp-conten ... ar-ten.png
We always took this one to mean that Steward was considering how to exploit the coin... but what if he was thinking about how others might exploit it? Like, say, Keene. In this strip, he could be thinking "what could Keene do if he got a hold of this?"

http://www.housepetscomic.com/comic/201 ... efore-bed/
I said before that I was wondering what Steward wanted to talk to Marion about in the morning. Maybe he wanted to ask him about Keene.

http://www.housepetscomic.com/wp-conten ... efrain.png
I also said this scene would have no moral weight behind it if Steward was the one who transformed Marion. So, assume that Steward in this scene is thinking Keene did it. He sympathises because he thinks "this kid was transformed without his choice, kind of like me." He says "you can't always get what you want" because he knows there are people out there with way more power than him or Marion, who can do what they like to you and get away with it.

There's my thoughts on why Steward may still be, if not a "hero", at least acting morally.

Post by **SeanWolf** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:12 am

Huh, so Steward is behind it...guess that theory was right. Honestly, with Steward's lil' speech there, it makes Keene come across as Wesker from the RE games (sans boulder punching).