2019/11/25 - Thinking Out Loud

Post by **D-Rock** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:04 am

[2019/11/25 - Thinking Out Loud]
Title Text: "...cookies?" "I'm already eating cookies"

Bring an angel to the devil and it seems they're still a devil.

Post by **Dissension** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:04 am

Everyone is smol. :3

Jakkal · Post by **Jakkal** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:06 am

That is the thing, the new world order could be a lot more worse than we have now. With predators actually ruling over hunted, in a very disturbing kind of way...

You can see how he gets intimiteded by the bobcat. Now think 3 numbers bigger, the amount of "Rasism" will be a lot more prevalent. Because deep down, those animals are still humans. So yeah, I would pass on this new "world order".

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:06 am

Lois put a stop to that quickly. But knowing Keene he’ll find some way to make that work.

All he needs is either the pool of mana in Egypt or the Infinity Stones

Whoo hoo, new world order. According to the poll there are some of us who would be okay with that.

Gameb18oy · Post by **Gameb18oy** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:07 am

I think we know what the comic's finale will be if Rick decides to write one

dr_eirik · Post by **dr_eirik** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:08 am

Keene, master of paw-in-mouth disease.

I think this confirms Keene doesn't know what's happening. Also, I always assumed that this was his plan with the mana pool. I guess it wasn't.

Post by **D-Rock** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:09 am

Jakkal wrote:That is the thing, the new world order could be a lot more worse than we have now. With predators actually ruling over hunted, in a very disturbing kind of way...

You can see how he gets intimiteded by the bobcat. Now think 3 numbers bigger, the amount of "Rasism" will be a lot more prevalent. Because deep down, those animals are still humans. So yeah, I would pass on this new "world order".

That's been my concern since Pete revealed his initial plans on achieving this to Bahamut.

OdedZeituni98 · Post by **OdedZeituni98** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:10 am

Gameb18oy wrote:I think we know what the comic's finale will be if Rick decides to write one

you mean like finale finale? finale that he won't do anymore comics after that? that would make me depressed

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:11 am

New world order where everyone is an animal. Hmmm, where have I seen that? *cough Beastars* How did that work? *cough not well*

GameCobra · Post by **GameCobra** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:12 am

I find it too easy that they just gave up like that and let Keene take over the conversation over cookies. x3

At this point Keene will just rope them into one of his plans again. crossing fingers here for Lana to do something better than whatever Keene is baking up :3

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:14 am

Marion asks the "Cui Bono" question

Jakkal wrote:That is the thing, the new world order could be a lot more worse than we have now. With predators actually ruling over hunted, in a very disturbing kind of way...

One word: Zootopia

Gbr23 · Post by **Gbr23** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:15 am

You should try and act innocent Keene. I mean, we now you’re innocent but try to act like it

LunarFox · Post by **LunarFox** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:16 am

Gameb18oy wrote:I think we know what the comic's finale will be if Rick decides to write one

I think I do too...

Although I hope HP! doesn't ever have to end.

Cue another foot-in-mouth moment for Keene, because why not?

--

Apparently cats like cookies,
I don't yet know about squirrels,
What I can figure out, however,
Is that the plan in Keene's mind already whirls.

Keene, just for future reference,
Oh, little megalomaniacal ferret,
We're going to need real answers soon,
There's no more "just grin and bear it."

Lois, as much as you may hate his guts,
As you know you have the right,
This situation won't get any better
If you keep putting up quite a fight.

Now, that's not to say you should surrender,
No, the opposite is true,
But I'd hope you'd at least try to remember.
This is your shot, you don't get two.

Keene, get your act together,
Unless you want to get et,
You're going to need to help fix this mess,
It's not your fault, that I bet.

Whether it's your fault or not,
You're going to get dragged along,
You'd better fasten your seatbelt, Mister Milton,
This journey's going on long.

Welsh Halfwit · Post by **Welsh Halfwit** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:21 am

Never take a Cat that nibbles cookies
for one that’s cuddly and cute.
Given reason she could rip you apart
and then eat you up, with fruit.
Get your talk of depraved plans done
and then offer a new way out;
or they’ll go public with all they know
and your hopes go up the spout.
Lois says nothing and let’s Marion lead
talking sense of what he’s found;
telling the tale that Thomas told him;
one that no longer seems sound.

Silly Zealot · Post by **Silly Zealot** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:25 am

Dissension wrote:Everyone is smol. :3

"Downsizing is not about saving the world, it's about saving yourself."

Champion Wallace · Post by **Champion Wallace** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:29 am

Lois is adorable noming on that cookie! Does Keene benefit from all this? Like he said before this is humans appropriating the ECP resources. He said he was going to make a thing about it, but he hasn't done anything with Marion yet and Marion wasn't there for that ominous declaration. So far all the interactions have been for Marion's benefit, not the project's.

OctoDoggo · Post by **OctoDoggo** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:29 am

Keene just can’t get a break this chapter! Although, he is being careless about you know, not mentioning the one thing that could set the very angry bobcat off.

Elwood Blutarsky · Post by **Elwood Blutarsky** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:40 am

You really should avoid getting involved with a New World Order. Once you're nWo you're nWo 4 life.

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:40 am

Jakkal wrote:That is the thing, the new world order could be a lot more worse than we have now. With predators actually ruling over hunted, in a very disturbing kind of way...

You can see how he gets intimiteded by the bobcat. Now think 3 numbers bigger, the amount of "Rasism" will be a lot more prevalent. Because deep down, those animals are still humans. So yeah, I would pass on this new "world order".

I'm not sure the predators aren't ruling already. However, under the Miltons, we do know that chocolate chip cookies will persist.

Elwood Blutarsky · Post by **Elwood Blutarsky** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:45 am

NHWestoN wrote:I'm not sure the predators aren't ruling already. However, under the Miltons, we do know that chocolate chip cookies will persist.

It's King all over again. "Join the Dog Side, we have biscuits."

VeryAngryDeer · Post by **VeryAngryDeer** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:19 am

dr_eirik wrote:I think this confirms Keene doesn't know what's happening. Also, I always assumed that this was his plan with the mana pool. I guess it wasn't.

I was momentarily confused, having the same issue as you. But then I thought, if a pool of Mana that big is supposed to be able to rewrite reality, he could rewrite it so animals and humans are equal directly. Celestials may have rules about free will, but does that apply to mortals? In any case, I don't think he would have needed to transform everyone into animals to reach his goal with the Mana.

Transforming everyone is a risky Plan B at best, since there's no guarantee that anyone would react how Keene wants them to. You might just end up with human and animal society still being segregated, on the lines of who is a natural animal and who is a therianthrope. They still have vastly different cultures and lives, having similar bodies is not going to instantly make them identify with each other, and resentment at having been transformed is going to be widespread. That alone would produce a backlash that would likely scupper any hopes of it being a quick fix to the equality issue. At best it might allow integration to happen over a long period of time.

There's also the matter that while there is currently prejudice and discrimination between humans and animals (in the US, anyway, Itsuki notes that things are different in Japan... which opens another can of worms. Apparently there are places full of people who already believe in human-animal equality, and do not deserve having their lives disrupted should Keene find a way to transform everyone at once) if everyone was turned into an animal... now you have to deal with all the prejudices and discrimination and obligate carnivores that comes with everyone being various types of animal. Would human society as it is even survive that? At first there's going to be a push for solidarity - "we all went through this trauma together" - but then you're going to get ambitious and unscrupulous people in the bodies of powerful animals, and they're going to use that power.

Not to get too political, but its almost like a commentary on historical communism. Achieving equality not by lifting everyone up, but by driving everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

Ninkurou · Post by **Ninkurou** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:02 am

I pretty much know that this is keene's plan, to turn everyone into animals at once. And I can see the logic in that, it would instantly put animals in charge. Grant a bunch of rights to animals and so on. But humans will not act differently just because they where turned into other races.

In a realistic viewpoint, in the best case scenario, (The best) the world would became a beastars like world.
In any other scenario, anybody who already studied about tribalism know the answer.

But alas, there are many different universes. Maybe there is one where humans don't exist and animals rule the world.

Maybe a visit to the Tooth and Tail universe might open his eyes a bit...

Argent · Post by **Argent** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:21 am

Having an Austin Powers moment, Keene?

"I hope I didn't say that out loud..."

The Wild is kind of like a Kevin and Kell world already.

Post by **SeanWolf** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:59 am

Firstly, the image of Lois munching the cookie is adorable for some reason. Second, with Keene's little comment, it makes me wonder if he actually has a Jekyll/Hyde thing going on. Reason I think that is, sometimes, we see him actually wanting to do good by the animals and, other times, he seems more concerned with making himself look good (his little 'new world order' comment and his earlier comment about Marion's current situation).

Robotech_Master · Post by **Robotech_Master** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:13 am

Of course, you can't really blame Keene. After all, in Housepets world, animals are subject to what amounts to literal racism—because they're not members of the human race. Transforming everyone to an animal in one fell swoop, if it were even possible, would truly give everyone an "equal chance."

Interestingly enough, it puts me in mind of another meditation on trying to overcome racism through transformation—Doctor Seuss's story about the Sneetches. Keene might not find such a transformation to bring about all the change he had hoped.

But in any case, it would be a great way to mix everything up—as well as to force humanity to retrofit all its equipment to be operable by smaller bodies with four-fingered hands...

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:03 am

*sigh
So it appears one trip to hell was not enough to make Keene see the error of his way.

OdedZeituni98 wrote:
Gameb18oy wrote:I think we know what the comic's finale will be if Rick decides to write one
you mean like finale finale? finale that he won't do anymore comics after that? that would make me depressed

As a certain critic once said, "A good story is like a good poop. You really don't appreciate it until it's over."

Robotech_Master wrote:Of course, you can't really blame Keene. After all, in Housepets world, animals are subject to what amounts to literal racism . . .

Speciesism.

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:25 am

SeanWolf wrote:Firstly, the image of Lois munching the cookie is adorable for some reason. Second, with Keene's little comment, it makes me wonder if he actually has a Jekyll/Hyde thing going on. Reason I think that is, sometimes, we see him actually wanting to do good by the animals and, other times, he seems more concerned with making himself look good (his little 'new world order' comment and his earlier comment about Marion's current situation).

Keene's situation in the program needs clarification. Is retired and detached, involved peripherally but ill-informed, or still basically in charge and increasingly incompetent? We also seem to be losing or confusing Marion's situation - does he know more about his own transformation than we were led to believe at the beginning or does he still want Lois and himself restored to their humanity? Or maybe he's just intimidated by being around a pine marten? Puzzlements.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:29 am

NHWestoN wrote:
SeanWolf wrote:Firstly, the image of Lois munching the cookie is adorable for some reason. Second, with Keene's little comment, it makes me wonder if he actually has a Jekyll/Hyde thing going on. Reason I think that is, sometimes, we see him actually wanting to do good by the animals and, other times, he seems more concerned with making himself look good (his little 'new world order' comment and his earlier comment about Marion's current situation).
Keene's situation in the program needs clarification. Is retired and detached, involved peripherally but ill-informed, or still basically in charge and increasingly incompetent? We also seem to be losing or confusing Marion's situation - does he know more about his own transformation than we were led to believe at the beginning or does he still want Lois and himself restored to their humanity? Or maybe he's just intimidated by being around a pine marten? Puzzlements.

What gives you the idea that Marion might know more about his situation than he's letting on?

cglenn · Post by **cglenn** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:02 am

Make it real dog eat dog world.

Or a buffet as some would call it.

CunningFox · Post by **CunningFox** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:59 am

Keene's suspicious behaviour distracts from how cute Lois is in the second panel.

VeryAngryDeer · Post by **VeryAngryDeer** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:04 pm

Robotech_Master wrote:Transforming everyone to an animal in one fell swoop, if it were even possible, would truly give everyone an "equal chance."

I don't think so. You'd just go from humans being at the top of the food chain to former humans being all over the food chain. Some would have a better chance than others.

Keene seems to want to have legal and social equality with humans based on what humans are now. Dragging humans into the massively unequal Wild is the opposite of what he wants. He wants to fully take part in civilisation, not force everyone into barbarism.

Amazee Dayzee · Post by **Amazee Dayzee** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:08 pm

Oh Keene. You really need to chose what comes out of your word-hole a whole lot better. Because the way things are going now, you are putting yourself at risk for being mauled by an angry gender-swapped bobcat.

Macsen · Post by **Macsen** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:30 pm

There is one line from film I can think of when seeing Lois in the last panel:

"SAY THE WRONG THING, TORG!"

Amazee Dayzee · Post by **Amazee Dayzee** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:33 pm

You know that she is just itching to redecorate the mansion with his innards. LOL

fenrirblack · Post by **fenrirblack** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:35 pm

VeryAngryDeer wrote:
Robotech_Master wrote:Transforming everyone to an animal in one fell swoop, if it were even possible, would truly give everyone an "equal chance."
I don't think so. You'd just go from humans being at the top of the food chain to former humans being all over the food chain. Some would have a better chance than others.

Keene seems to want to have legal and social equality with humans based on what humans are now. Dragging humans into the massively unequal Wild is the opposite of what he wants. He wants to fully take part in civilization, not force everyone into barbarism.

Basically it's like Thanos logic. It doesn't matter who or what you are in are before the snap and it becomes random. That said, think about it like this, would there be a way to establish a way to prove if someone was formerly human or not? If that is so, worse case then we are right back where we started. Logically that wouldn't work so we would have to deal with a new world order. Keene is correct in one regard. Laws would have to change almost instantly for the greater good allowing all therianthropes and animals the same rights as well as allowing those who wish to remain either feral or join the wild that opportunity not unlike a citizenship. There wouldn't be too much of an issue of predator and prey anymore than there is now. Taking the Beastars approach, predatory acts would be outlawed like general murder and food consumption would have to be more tightly regulated. As far as speciesism goes, I don't see that being too different from anything we have now. Both animals and humans have their own prejudices and while they will be altered and changed society as a whole would not vary as much. The biggest issue would be physical limitations but given how the animals in society work already they're wouldn't be too much changes only that new laws, regulations, and supplies would have to be mass produced to meet the new demands. It will take an adjustment period but I can't see it taking more than a decade for 1st world countries to adapt to the new norm. When you really think about it, how much would really change? The big will still pick on the weak, people will still get murdered, and hate will persist. The only difference will be who does what and everyone will be furry.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:02 pm

fenrirblack wrote:
VeryAngryDeer wrote:
Robotech_Master wrote:Transforming everyone to an animal in one fell swoop, if it were even possible, would truly give everyone an "equal chance."
I don't think so. You'd just go from humans being at the top of the food chain to former humans being all over the food chain. Some would have a better chance than others.

Keene seems to want to have legal and social equality with humans based on what humans are now. Dragging humans into the massively unequal Wild is the opposite of what he wants. He wants to fully take part in civilization, not force everyone into barbarism.
Basically it's like Thanos logic. It doesn't matter who or what you are in are before the snap and it becomes random. That said, think about it like this, would there be a way to establish a way to prove if someone was formerly human or not? If that is so, worse case then we are right back where we started. Logically that wouldn't work so we would have to deal with a new world order. Keene is correct in one regard. Laws would have to change almost instantly for the greater good allowing all therianthropes and animals the same rights as well as allowing those who wish to remain either feral or join the wild that opportunity not unlike a citizenship. There wouldn't be too much of an issue of predator and prey anymore than there is now. Taking the Beastars approach, predatory acts would be outlawed like general murder and food consumption would have to be more tightly regulated. As far as speciesism goes, I don't see that being too different from anything we have now. Both animals and humans have their own prejudices and while they will be altered and changed society as a whole would not vary as much. The biggest issue would be physical limitations but given how the animals in society work already they're wouldn't be too much changes only that new laws, regulations, and supplies would have to be mass produced to meet the new demands. It will take an adjustment period but I can't see it taking more than a decade for 1st world countries to adapt to the new norm. When you really think about it, how much would really change? The big will still pick on the weak, people will still get murdered, and hate will persist. The only difference will be who does what and everyone will be furry.

There's also the possibility to consider that Keene hasn't thought through the long-term effects of doing this. I mean, the page sort of implies that this is the first time this thought has ever occurred to him.

Post by **SeanWolf** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:15 pm

Something I just thought of and this is one of those theories that is so out there, that it could be legit: What if Keene is the one behind the transformations of Lois and Marion because, at one point, he was a human but something happened to make him a ferret? It would explain him wanting to do the ECP program. Yes, this brings up other questions but I just thought of it after reading his comment on panel three.

Cesco · Post by **Cesco** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:20 pm

Good this turned to be a nice pause with milk and cookies.

Alright, Marion told Keene everything about his misadventure and Lois' transforming too... Keene looks kinda satisfied with that, though.

It's good for his ECP project, indeed, despite difficulties. So, you even wish to do that at once, Keene? By saying this, means that's really you who's causing these transformations, but only one by one... Your power manias are awakening again.

Eheh, good that the sight of a lynx can change your thinks.

Maybe there's a chance to have this reversible...

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:57 pm

Nobody wrote:
NHWestoN wrote:
SeanWolf wrote:Firstly, the image of Lois munching the cookie is adorable for some reason. Second, with Keene's little comment, it makes me wonder if he actually has a Jekyll/Hyde thing going on. Reason I think that is, sometimes, we see him actually wanting to do good by the animals and, other times, he seems more concerned with making himself look good (his little 'new world order' comment and his earlier comment about Marion's current situation).
Keene's situation in the program needs clarification. Is retired and detached, involved peripherally but ill-informed, or still basically in charge and increasingly incompetent? We also seem to be losing or confusing Marion's situation - does he know more about his own transformation than we were led to believe at the beginning or does he still want Lois and himself restored to their humanity? Or maybe he's just intimidated by being around a pine marten? Puzzlements.
What gives you the idea that Marion might know more about his situation than he's letting on?

Keene's question to Marion, "How's the ECP working out for you?", suggested our squirrel kid somehow got involved since it suggests he made a choice that Keene's aware of. Or it may be more of Keene losing it....

VeryAngryDeer · Post by **VeryAngryDeer** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:53 pm

fenrirblack wrote:
VeryAngryDeer wrote:
Robotech_Master wrote:Transforming everyone to an animal in one fell swoop, if it were even possible, would truly give everyone an "equal chance."
I don't think so. You'd just go from humans being at the top of the food chain to former humans being all over the food chain. Some would have a better chance than others.

Keene seems to want to have legal and social equality with humans based on what humans are now. Dragging humans into the massively unequal Wild is the opposite of what he wants. He wants to fully take part in civilization, not force everyone into barbarism.
Basically it's like Thanos logic. It doesn't matter who or what you are in are before the snap and it becomes random. That said, think about it like this, would there be a way to establish a way to prove if someone was formerly human or not? If that is so, worse case then we are right back where we started. Logically that wouldn't work so we would have to deal with a new world order. Keene is correct in one regard. Laws would have to change almost instantly for the greater good allowing all therianthropes and animals the same rights as well as allowing those who wish to remain either feral or join the wild that opportunity not unlike a citizenship. There wouldn't be too much of an issue of predator and prey anymore than there is now. Taking the Beastars approach, predatory acts would be outlawed like general murder and food consumption would have to be more tightly regulated. As far as speciesism goes, I don't see that being too different from anything we have now. Both animals and humans have their own prejudices and while they will be altered and changed society as a whole would not vary as much. The biggest issue would be physical limitations but given how the animals in society work already they're wouldn't be too much changes only that new laws, regulations, and supplies would have to be mass produced to meet the new demands. It will take an adjustment period but I can't see it taking more than a decade for 1st world countries to adapt to the new norm. When you really think about it, how much would really change? The big will still pick on the weak, people will still get murdered, and hate will persist. The only difference will be who does what and everyone will be furry.

"would there be a way to establish a way to prove if someone was formerly human or not?"
It'd be difficult to 'verify' the identities of therianthropes for logistical reasons, but its by no means impossible. Demonstrate that you know the PIN number for your bank card, and the password for your email address, that'll be good enough for government work. The hard part would be that you've got to organise the verification of tens if not hundreds of millions of people, and that not everyone has a bank card or an email address.

Alternatively, people carry on their lives as normal, and animals that are not therianthropes wouldn't have the experience needed to fake being humans. A situation could develop where suspected animals are reported to the authorities, if we want to think about dystopian possibilities.

The differences between human races are minor, especially when compared to the differences between species. Racism tends to be based on assumptions projected onto others, or cultural stereotypes which the racist believes are inherent to a race. Species are dramatically different in instinctive behaviour and capabilities. Speciesism would have a much more solid foundation in evidence. It would still be morally wrong as far as I'm concerned, but I do think that would mean speciesism would be more common and have higher intensity than racism.

I think you're being very optimistic when you say that 1st world countries will be back to normal in a decade. Consider the effect that mass therianthropy will have on birthrate. You can only have children with other members of your species. Most people will be transformed into animals that are not compatible with their partner. Relationships will be destroyed. Plans for the future will never happen. The phrase "plenty more fish in the sea" will no longer apply, because if you want kids you've got to find someone that's the same species as you, and that's going to be a very small percentage of the population. Things may appear to go back to normal in ten years, but what will society look like in twenty? Thirty? Fifty? What happens when there aren't enough new people to do work and raise taxes? Sure, you could give animals equal rights and bring them into the workforce, but does a significant percentage of the animals even want to join civilisation? Most of the pets don't seem to care that they are second class citizens, or even enjoy the way they have plenty of privileges and few responsibilities. The Wolves and Gale both wanted to join civilisation, but the other ferals have apparently been rejecting the ECP. Top predators like wolves and cougars aren't the majority of animals, you'd struggle to keep population up just recruiting them. Just bringing them in doesn't guarantee anyone will want to breed with them. And what about inbreeding? Get lots of one species in one place and you're fine, but split them up into hundreds of species with a very limited choice of partners, and you'll see genetic issues within a couple of generations. Trying to save human civilisation by replacing the declining number of therianthropes will wild animals will also cause social issues, with people resentful at the idea.

But what about animals with high birthrates? Surely they could fix it? Possibly. But having children is expensive in the 1st world. Can they afford to have huge litters? Would they have to give up children for adoption simply because they can't look after them all? Knowing that this is what they would have to consider, would they even choose to have children at all? This also introduces the problem that some families will be producing most of the population, while others will be producing hardly any, which is far different to the current situation where most families have about two children. Expect more resentment.

In short, I would not be surprised if it caused the slow decline and eventual collapse of civilisation as we know it. To be fair, this could make an interesting premise for a story, but I don't think it fits the theme of Housepets.