2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

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Champion Wallace
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Champion Wallace »

fenrirblack wrote:
Champion Wallace wrote:She can't have been a cat for long, so if someone is looking in her direction to announce a feral (Lois isn't feral, she's tame :P) cat is loose.
Thank you. This is what I've been saying. You can't throw the word "feral" around. Plus it really doesn't make sense in the context that a zoo animal that escaped from a enclosure would be "feral."
Perhaps I shouldn't be throwing the word "feral" around either. What I meant to say was fully domesticated. The joke I was trying to make was Lois knows how to be a normal member of society because she was one as a human, but other people wouldn't recognize that now.
fenrirblack wrote:
Nobody wrote:Everybody's wondering whether she's a bobcat or a lynx or a snow leopard and I'm just here wondering . . .
Ears. The ears are too pointed for Snow Leopard. She's a species of lynx.
The ears are also missing the tufts so she isn't a species of lynx. That just leaves bobcat.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by fenrirblack »

Switching gears for a moment. Obviously Rick is going to torture us with this. His pattern indicates that there will be a "break" and therefore one-offs like before. SO what will they be. A halloween one would make sense and he's done it before. That would be Wednesday. I really want a follow-up to this one. And finally know what Peanut is/was doing at camp. All these months later. I still want to know.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by jonas »

Wow, it's getting a bit Ranma½ in this arc.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Kaworu »

I have to say, Luis is pretty as a cat :3 :3 :3 :3 :3
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Ryusuta »

Whoa, I admit that I didn't see this one coming. For what it's worth, she looks good, though. <3
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by NHWestoN »

zeusdemigod131 wrote:It's the transformation flu!
Hmmmm … well, transformation did seem to cure Steward of his poison ivy affliction.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Nobody »

fenrirblack wrote:
Nobody wrote:Everybody's wondering whether she's a bobcat or a lynx or a snow leopard and I'm just here wondering . . .
Ears. The ears are too pointed for Snow Leopard. She's a species of lynx.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by SeanWolf »

I got a new theory: What if the curse isn't the coin itself, but rather linked the removal of said coin? What if the curse was that if any piece of the treasure is removed from Pete's temple, various humans will start turning into animals until said treasure is returned, then all those who changed into an animal after the coin was removed would return to their human state. Why else, if I recall correctly, was Karishad mad that Joey(?) broke one of the rules?


(There's also that random bird flying off in the background, which could mean Trinket dropped a coin recently onto Lois if we go back to the coin theory)
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by fenrirblack »

I have a day worth of thoughts and theories so bare with me.

Big questions time:
What is going to happen at school? I can see this going two ways. One, people think Lois is in on the joke because she’s Marion’s girlfriend. Two, they really think that it’s spreading and they both can’t go back for risk of spreading.
What will Lois’s parents think? Julia wasn’t exactly thrilled and we know nothing about Lois’s parents (or her last name). Even if they’re cool that their daughter is a cat, they still might blame Marion and forbid her from seeing him.
Is it going to spread? Signs point to yes but even I have to admit that's not what the comic is really about. That was what made King special and if we end up with two dozen Kings then suddenly it's not about the pets its about the humans.
If this is random or targeted how is it going to be stopped? If we go with the slander theory then the Milton’s can use this as a way to get out of trouble and “cure” everyone. As much as the slander theory makes sense but it’s not really Housepets style not to mention we don’t need the Milton’s to be in trouble for them to want to stop rando’s from becoming animals. It could benefit the ECP but if people start pointing fingers at them (rando’s online) then they would be worse off. These leads me to my point that this is setting up a magical adventure to Egypt to use Dragons mana to change everyone back. Not the most original idea (I came up with this same idea long before Marion was even introduced) but makes the most sense plot wise down the road. If we want to be super elaborate, I mean 3-D chess elaborate, then ALL of this was solely planned and executed so that the villain can access the mana for their own personal gain.

I still believe this is intentional. What are the odds that I would affect Lois as she and Marion are looking into the cause? This is something that happens to people with too much curiosity and a big mouths. Since we can't kill them then we have to make sure that no one will take them seriously or have them believe that they are crazy. Look at Marion who actually was turned into a squirrel but believed that Thomas's theory was crazy. (Wait a minute. I think that was a personal attack.) As much as the possibility that the temple is leaking magic into the town Equestria Girls style, the timing doesn't make sense. Literally as Marion was climbing out and right after Thomas pointed out that more changes could happen Lois is transformed.

Looking into my crystal ball I want to say we’re going to pick this back up at Milton Manor BUT it would be funnier if the K9 or Milton’s had to bail them out of Zoo jail. Imagine the three of them in a back office somewhere while the staff looks over the footage and tries to twist themselves into knots to understand how and why this happened. Or worse, their parents show up.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by NHWestoN »

SeanWolf wrote:I got a new theory: What if the curse isn't the coin itself, but rather linked the removal of said coin? What if the curse was that if any piece of the treasure is removed from Pete's temple, various humans will start turning into animals until said treasure is returned, then all those who changed into an animal after the coin was removed would return to their human state. Why else, if I recall correctly, was Karishad mad that Joey(?) broke one of the rules?


(There's also that random bird flying off in the background, which could mean Trinket dropped a coin recently onto Lois if we go back to the coin theory)
I think it was Dallas that Karishad was honked at. If your Trinket theory were to hold, would birds be immune to transformation? (That also indicates Trinket is a player in some kind of a plot … or else the li'l Dino-demon who, among his other charms, is a shape-shifter. More Hmmmmmm… )
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Nathan Kerbonaut »

I wish the site was working this morning, because my first reaction to today's comic was bruhhh!?! I honestly didn't think Rick would choose this path. :shock:
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Kanexan »

What I'm wondering is if we'll start to see animals changing into humans at some point?
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by trekkie »

Okay. Lois is a wildcat of some sort. My guess is lynx but I’ve been wrong before. I love her bandanna and glasses. Good to see that Marion knows better than to fall for Thomas’s lies. Do we know if the coin affects non-human animals the same as it affects human animals? If not, and the bird flying away is Trinket, then maybe Steward hired Trinket to follow Lois and Marion around and drop the coin on Lois, transforming her. He might be hoping that she and/or Marion will agree to work for him to further his aims.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Sir Chestnut »

Im hoping we'll get a few Halloween strips as an interlude. Although it would be kind of awkward timeline wise since the story is currently in late spring/early summer.

I'm thinking from here they're either going to a) run with Poncho to the Wolf house, followed by King having a stroke. Or b) they'll go to the forest so Lois can hide with Jessica.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Elwood Blutarsky »

fenrirblack wrote: What will Lois’s parents think? Julia wasn’t exactly thrilled and we know nothing about Lois’s parents (or her last name). Even if they’re cool that their daughter is a cat, they still might blame Marion and forbid her from seeing him.
Why would anyone possibly be cool with that?...
"Well, honey our little kitten now literally is one."
"Bobcat is certainly an unorthodox career choice but think of the savings on education costs. She can go straight into the job market in the wild or the zoo."
fenrirblack wrote: I still believe this is intentional. What are the odds that I would affect Lois as she and Marion are looking into the cause? This is something that happens to people with too much curiosity and a big mouths. Since we can't kill them then we have to make sure that no one will take them seriously or have them believe that they are crazy.
So what you are saying is that curiosity made her a cat?
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by VoidGaming404 »

I actually have an interesting theory on what is going on. This Universe is NOT happy with everything that is happening. (Pete turning people into animals, the whole cosmic game, Tarot taking Peanut and the gang back in time) Even for a Universe of talking animals, that's kind of stretching things thin. The Universe is trying to repair itself, by returning things to normal. Now tell me, what happens when the old normal (humans and animals living their lives together relatively peacefully) is replaced by the "new" normal? (humans being turned into animals) It's going to default to whatever is now normal. All this stuff that is happening that shouldn't be possible is starting to blur reality...
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Vertigo Fox »

Well, if that is really the case then all that's left to say is...

...Oh deer. :lol:
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by RyanWilson »

I am going to guess that we are going to have a Spot (Superdog) strip. We haven't had one in quite some time and we definitely have a break coming. After all, we have a "to be continued...", there will be a break. Looking at the archive, most years don't have a Halloween strip, but the break is lining up with Halloween, so this year might have one.

Regardless, we need the chronological issue dealt with. This arc is still in May, school hasn't ended. Normally, the long arcs aren't so specific about their timing.

Also, Halloween costumes for Lois and Marion: themselves, specifically their human selves. It would be so awkward and weird, and I doubt that they are in any state to find the concept amusing, but the concept is hilarious. It would also be really hard to draw in a way that worked, certain jokes work best in writing.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Argent »

We found the missing lynx!

OK, my theory is that Thomas had another coin and he's ground it up into little bits that he can spit with camel accuracy all wrapped up in a big loogie of camel cud. Camels are notorious for that.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Cesco »

Whaaat?! :shock: Also Lois? But, how? :? Poncho, you've always been close to her, right? Tell us what you've seen! :o Well, Thomas the camel isn't toally crazy, he just wishes to get something useful for his interests... :roll: A linx and a squirrel make a cute unusual couple, though. :D Looking ahead to how's going to be now...
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Nobody »

trekkie wrote:Okay. Lois is a wildcat of some sort. My guess is lynx but I’ve been wrong before. I love her bandanna and glasses. Good to see that Marion knows better than to fall for Thomas’s lies. Do we know if the coin affects non-human animals the same as it affects human animals? If not, and the bird flying away is Trinket, then maybe Steward hired Trinket to follow Lois and Marion around and drop the coin on Lois, transforming her. He might be hoping that she and/or Marion will agree to work for him to further his aims.
I rather prefer the line of logic that Steward is kinda flailing about, not sure how to make things happen, but trying to get the ball rolling so he has some confusion to take advantage of. It's more believable than, "He knew Marion would go to Thomas."

That said, even assuming Steward is involved (which I do at this point, because Checkov's Gun), we don't know what Steward's end-goal is, or how he's pulling this off, so it's impossible to predict where it's going to go from here. Except that an altercation with zoo security is unquestionably in the immediate future.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by CunningFox »

Marion has the Lynx Effect.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by GameCobra »

first off - Sweet, she became a Lynx. And she's rocking the bandana, too. Looks good on her :D

Second - to be continued on the last week of Halloween. I hope we get a mini-week of Halloween next week!

Third - I suspect Thomas did something as well and spat a coin at her, but Marion unfortunately introduced the problem now. How to undo it is going to be fun.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Sir Chestnut »

I'm still going with Trinket and Cory being involved. Not sure what their motivation would be, but I've suspected Cory's coin is cursed as well, and the shadow in the treehouse appeared to match him too.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Gameb18oy »

Slight rule of these transformations, no one is turning an animal people typically would consider pets. Lois and Marion actually got a bit lucky as the species that they turned into while it be unusual, still be fine
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Yamitora1 »

pancho be like "I like big cats and I cannot lie!" also, did she just become a he? so Marion became a female squirrel and Lois a male cat...gender bending species bending all we missing is element bending
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by VeryAngryDeer »

fenrirblack wrote: And so far, even Marion's gender-swap has served ZERO narrative purpose. We got a few gags but that's it. For the most part it's been ignored by the cast except for a few cases. It hasn't effected Marion's school day or his conversations with the other animals after Jess.
If its confirmed that Lois has been sex-swapped (I think we're using the wrong terminology, since Marion's gender is the same, its his biological sex that's changed) then that would bring in a narrative purpose. In both occasions that a coin transformed a character, they remained the same sex.

Sex-swapping would indicate that the transformations have an entirely separate cause, and the coins are a red herring.

Neither Marion nor Lois seemed to have a coin anywhere near them when they transformed, and this would explain why - that there was no coin involved.
Also, the fact that Lois, unlike Marion, was awake for the transformation, should mean we can get more information about what was going on just before it happened (Poncho may not have been looking at Lois until the big puff of smoke, so whether he witnessed it is unknown).
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Vertigo Fox »

Could this all be much simpler?
After all, how much do we really know about who Marion is? Are we all looking at the wrong mystery?
What if this whole arc isn't a plan gone right, but one gone wrong?

I put this to you: someone wants Marion dead, and wants some hapless carnivore to take the fall. That person hears something about a few occurrences around town where people got transformed into animals, giving them the idea to find a way to arrange circumstances so that Marion gets turned into a small, vulnerable and confused prey creature.
At the point where this story arc started they probably expected him to just get eaten by some larger animal -- depending on their level of prejudice, maybe they thought the wolves would do it. Or failing that some neighbourhood cat. They might have hoped he'd get eaten before anyone realized what happened to him, so there would be no body, no witnesses, and nothing to trace back to them.
But this didn't happen, and as Marion survived longer and longer and started to look into what had actually happened to him and how he might get back the would-be-murderer, keeping tabs on the situation, becomes more and more desperate. Eventually they decide to turn the one person who's still close to their victim into a predatory animal herself, in the hope that at some point as they keep searching for a solution together her natural urges will become too strong to resist and she will kill Marion herself.

Of course this still leaves the murderer in a bit of a pickle as to how to deal with Lois potentially finding out who they are afterwards, but if this really was his plan he's probably not thinking too clearly after so much has gone wrong.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Amazee Dayzee »

Looks like what everybody else has been saying is true and that Lois now is transformed into an animal and in the same boat as Marion. I have to wonder if her gender was also flipped. I’m kind of hoping that she still is a female because Poncho really does love his big cats. At least Poncho will be able to vouch for Lois being transformed. Unlike Marion who had to prove to everybody that he was actually him. Good thing to because it looks like Lois is gonna be thrown back into an enclosure.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by NHWestoN »

Well, if Gale gets walking-around privileges, Lois thoughts he okay. Marion may have a complication - his gal-pal is now a major league pred.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by fenrirblack »

Nobody wrote:
trekkie wrote:Okay. Lois is a wildcat of some sort. My guess is lynx but I’ve been wrong before. I love her bandanna and glasses. Good to see that Marion knows better than to fall for Thomas’s lies. Do we know if the coin affects non-human animals the same as it affects human animals? If not, and the bird flying away is Trinket, then maybe Steward hired Trinket to follow Lois and Marion around and drop the coin on Lois, transforming her. He might be hoping that she and/or Marion will agree to work for him to further his aims.
I rather prefer the line of logic that Steward is kinda flailing about, not sure how to make things happen, but trying to get the ball rolling so he has some confusion to take advantage of. It's more believable than, "He knew Marion would go to Thomas."

That said, even assuming Steward is involved (which I do at this point, because Checkov's Gun), we don't know what Steward's end-goal is, or how he's pulling this off, so it's impossible to predict where it's going to go from here. Except that an altercation with zoo security is unquestionably in the immediate future.
Steward doesn't have to be involved presently but be involved in the future for Checkov's Gun to be in play. More importantly, it can't be Steward for several reasons (some of which have been pointed out) A. He doesn't know for sure that Marion was human (there were hints but nothing confirmed), B. he definitely doesn't know about Lois neither does Thomas for that matter (Thomas didn't even know Marion was there until he threw a coconut), C. If the coin was dropped by Trinket then where is it and why would they purposely sacrifice their only coin for one transformation? Even if the coin was there on the ground, guess who know has it now. They do.
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fenrirblack wrote: What will Lois’s parents think? Julia wasn’t exactly thrilled and we know nothing about Lois’s parents (or her last name). Even if they’re cool that their daughter is a cat, they still might blame Marion and forbid her from seeing him.
Why would anyone possibly be cool with that?...
"Well, honey our little kitten now literally is one."
"Bobcat is certainly an unorthodox career choice but think of the savings on education costs. She can go straight into the job market in the wild or the zoo."
They are very cool and accepting parents. 8-)
Elwood Blutarsky wrote:
fenrirblack wrote: I still believe this is intentional. What are the odds that I would affect Lois as she and Marion are looking into the cause? This is something that happens to people with too much curiosity and a big mouths. Since we can't kill them then we have to make sure that no one will take them seriously or have them believe that they are crazy.
So what you are saying is that curiosity made her a cat?
Yes. :P
Amazee Dayzee wrote:Looks like what everybody else has been saying is true and that Lois now is transformed into an animal and in the same boat as Marion. I have to wonder if her gender was also flipped. I’m kind of hoping that she still is a female because Poncho really does love his big cats. At least Poncho will be able to vouch for Lois being transformed. Unlike Marion who had to prove to everybody that he was actually him. Good thing to because it looks like Lois is gonna be thrown back into an enclosure.
I would disagree with you but Keene was locked in the ferret enclosure for months so this zoo is not very good at keep track of which animals are supposed to be there and which ones aren't. I don't work at a Zoo but they should have a register that tells them this information. Makes you wonder how it stays open.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Nobody »

Vertigo Fox wrote:Could this all be much simpler?
Snip
So, simpler in your mind is . . . a whole new person we've never seen before has an elaborate plan to murder someone and it's pure coincidence that they ran into the only person with the known power to cause this situation and that he thought it was "Interesting" that said victim should show up, which in turn is coincidentally leading to said victim being in a position to do serious damage to the person aforementioned person with power to cause all this has a beef with, and all these coincidences lead to said previously unmentioned character deciding to turn first victim's girlfriend into something that could eat him as a way of finishing the job, even though there is plenty of evidence that these transformations are having no affect on their mind?

Try not to cut yourself shaving on Occam's Razor there.

Also, I *probably* could have phrased more clearly, but it amused me to make an argument that your explanation was not really simple as difficult to understand as I could without devolving into gibberish. We all have our foibles. It's also possible I overdosed on my medication this morning and have therefore become a robot.
fenrirblack wrote: Steward doesn't have to be involved presently but be involved in the future for Checkov's Gun to be in play. More importantly, it can't be Steward for several reasons (some of which have been pointed out) A. He doesn't know for sure that Marion was human (there were hints but nothing confirmed), B. he definitely doesn't know about Lois neither does Thomas for that matter (Thomas didn't even know Marion was there until he threw a coconut), C. If the coin was dropped by Trinket then where is it and why would they purposely sacrifice their only coin for one transformation? Even if the coin was there on the ground, guess who know has it now. They do.
We actually don't know that Steward doesn't know about Marion either. That's the problem with all this speculation, really. There are just a bunch of "We don't knows" right now. My logic is purely meta-narrative, not diegetic. I assume Steward is involved because narratively, he has to be. He's been set-up to be. A red herring on that does not feel right in this instance because it would require an active third-party running things behind the scenes that has hitherto not been introduced, (or if people go with the dino-demon theory, not having been established as interested in conflict in a way that is suitable to the theme of the arc). It would be incredibly narratively unsatisfying for the villain to be "This guy you didn't know existed until just now," when the arc has set up Steward as the prime instigator of the conflict. While I might be able to lay a few criticisms here or there on the comic, it's never failed at basic narrative cohesion within individual running arcs - unless that break in cohesion was a deliberate joke (IE Keene being behind the water gun war). Based on the way this comic has run, I don't read Rick as the sort of person who would script a story that way. Exact motivations and characters might get revealed as more complicated than initially believed, but the set-ups have always been paid off in ways that keep the narrative fundamentally consistent.
As to how Steward got to Lois, I choose not to speculate until we're given more information. If all bets are off the table, which is always a possibility, I concede that Steward could possibly not be involved. But if all bets are off the table, there's no reason that Keene couldn't suddenly sprout wings and fly off into space to become Bird-Ferret, Protector of the Universe. I simply posit that my metanarrative reading of the plot thus far points to Steward. For that, the specific details are unimportant, so long it fits with the structure, theme, and characterization provided.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Vertigo Fox »

Nobody wrote:
Vertigo Fox wrote:Could this all be much simpler?
Snip
So, simpler in your mind is . . . a whole new person we've never seen before has an elaborate plan to murder someone and it's pure coincidence that they ran into the only person with the known power to cause this situation and that he thought it was "Interesting" that said victim should show up, which in turn is coincidentally leading to said victim being in a position to do serious damage to the person aforementioned person with power to cause all this has a beef with, and all these coincidences lead to said previously unmentioned character deciding to turn first victim's girlfriend into something that could eat him as a way of finishing the job, even though there is plenty of evidence that these transformations are having no affect on their mind?

Try not to cut yourself shaving on Occam's Razor there.
Lololololololololol, point taken.
I meant it as the villain has a simple motivation, until events balloon out of their control due to their own lack of understanding of their universe. Not that it's simple from the writer's point of view, or that it stayed simple. A scheme gone horribly wrong always gets more and more complicated to hold together until it collapses under its own weight.
The idea of a new character isn't too far-fetched though, at the start of this arc both its leads were unknown not only to us but also to the rest of the regular cast. Stands to reason then that anyone who knows them would have to be a new character as well.
Then again, for some reason today I have Poirot on the mind. It's not really a serious theory, just an illustration of what you can get when you drop your assumptions which don't necessarily have to be true.

The assumption people are making which I don't quite understand is that this is being done by one of the few people who understands the rules of this universe, when it's been made very clear in previous arcs that most people here have it very wrong. It seems just as likely that somebody else has found a way to toy with forces they don't comprehend -- there are no shortage of those just lying around -- and the events they've started are growing out of their control. For a writer, it's potentially just as interesting a plot because not all the events have to make sense.

By the "one person with the known power to cause this situation" do you mean Steward? I don't recall seeing any clear evidence that Thomas still has any of the coins. Without any hands, and having to use his mouth to eat, how would he transport them undetected? If anyone saw him carrying a bunch of gold around before he got into the zoo I'm pretty sure that person would be the animal with the coins now.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

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Welsh Halfwit wrote:Where, exactly, did all her clothes go?
well, what do you think that smoke is made of?
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

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Nobody wrote:
fenrirblack wrote: Steward doesn't have to be involved presently but be involved in the future for Checkov's Gun to be in play. More importantly, it can't be Steward for several reasons (some of which have been pointed out) A. He doesn't know for sure that Marion was human (there were hints but nothing confirmed), B. he definitely doesn't know about Lois neither does Thomas for that matter (Thomas didn't even know Marion was there until he threw a coconut), C. If the coin was dropped by Trinket then where is it and why would they purposely sacrifice their only coin for one transformation? Even if the coin was there on the ground, guess who know has it now. They do.
We actually don't know that Steward doesn't know about Marion either. That's the problem with all this speculation, really. There are just a bunch of "We don't knows" right now. My logic is purely meta-narrative, not diegetic. I assume Steward is involved because narratively, he has to be. He's been set-up to be. A red herring on that does not feel right in this instance because it would require an active third-party running things behind the scenes that has hitherto not been introduced, (or if people go with the dino-demon theory, not having been established as interested in conflict in a way that is suitable to the theme of the arc). It would be incredibly narratively unsatisfying for the villain to be "This guy you didn't know existed until just now," when the arc has set up Steward as the prime instigator of the conflict. While I might be able to lay a few criticisms here or there on the comic, it's never failed at basic narrative cohesion within individual running arcs - unless that break in cohesion was a deliberate joke (IE Keene being behind the water gun war). Based on the way this comic has run, I don't read Rick as the sort of person who would script a story that way. Exact motivations and characters might get revealed as more complicated than initially believed, but the set-ups have always been paid off in ways that keep the narrative fundamentally consistent.
As to how Steward got to Lois, I choose not to speculate until we're given more information. If all bets are off the table, which is always a possibility, I concede that Steward could possibly not be involved. But if all bets are off the table, there's no reason that Keene couldn't suddenly sprout wings and fly off into space to become Bird-Ferret, Protector of the Universe. I simply posit that my metanarrative reading of the plot thus far points to Steward. For that, the specific details are unimportant, so long it fits with the structure, theme, and characterization provided.
He has been set up as an antagonist (or at least a major player down the line because that was the entire point of part 1 and 2) but the problem is that the dino-demon could be behind this there is no way of knowing that there could be a unseen character pulling the strings. My assumption is based on a two-antagonist narrative at this point. Steward being a secondary antagonist that is more in the lime-light while the true "big bad" is hiding in the shadows. Teen Wolf did a two-antagonist approach where as each season went on the two slowly became more entangled with each other like every season and extremely well I might add. The mystery antagonist doesn't have to pulled out of Rick's butt at the last minute as a "Big Reveal" scenario but brought in earlier under the guise of a stranger appearing in the story. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't eventually. We as the reader can deduce that this so-so character is the main antagonist but the characters wouldn't. Then later on, said villain reveals his scheme and we all pretend to be shocked. That is a more likely approach given Rick's own writing philosophy. Because we know that there is something or someone pulling strings that we have not seen. Both of them have been changed by unknown circumstances at odd times. Marion during the four hours he was asleep and Lois in bright daylight in front of witnesses. Lois's is especially particular for reasons I have stated which is that she seemed to be targeted because of her detective work and her role with Marion which tells me that this wasn't a coincidence or random magical energy surge that happened to affect her at that exact moment Marion was trying to extract Information from Thomas.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

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fenrirblack wrote:
Champion Wallace wrote:if someone is looking in her direction to announce a feral (Lois isn't feral, she's tame :P) cat is loose.
Thank you. This is what I've been saying. You can't throw the word "feral" around. Plus it really doesn't make sense in the context that a zoo animal that escaped from a enclosure would be "feral."
I'm guessing security is not too good at taxonomy.
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"Just say 'feral' dude and call it a day"
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

Post by Vertigo Fox »

Lynx aren't that big. At least not the North American kind.

And hey, you want a really simple theory?
Someone granted them shapeshifting powers and didn't tell them. :D
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

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fenrirblack wrote:He has been set up as an antagonist (or at least a major player down the line because that was the entire point of part 1 and 2) but the problem is that while I'm a firm believer that the dino-demon is behind this there is no way of knowing that there could be a unseen character pulling the strings. My assumption is based on a two-antagonist narrative at this point. Steward being a secondary antagonist that is more in the lime-light while the true "big bad" is hiding in the shadows. Teen Wolf did a two-antagonist approach where as each season went on the two slowly became more entangled with each other like every season and extremely well I might add. The mystery antagonist doesn't have to pulled out of Rick's butt at the last minute as a "Big Reveal" scenario but brought in earlier under the guise of a stranger appearing in the story. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't eventually. We as the reader can deduce that this so-so character is the main antagonist but the characters wouldn't. Then later on, said villain reveals his scheme and we all pretend to be shocked. That is a more likely approach given Rick's own writing philosophy. Because we know that there is something or someone pulling strings that we have not seen. Both of them have been changed by unknown circumstances at odd times. Marion during the four hours he was asleep and Lois in bright daylight in front of witnesses. Lois's is especially particular for reasons I have stated which is that she seemed to be targeted because of her detective work and her role with Marion which tells me that this wasn't a coincidence or random magical energy surge that happened to affect her at that exact moment Marion was trying to extract Information from Thomas.
One moment, Parsing data . . .

Okay, what evidence do you see points to two antagonists? I don't see any myself within the story that's been revealed. I actually don't see a whole lot of convincing evidence of any theories within the story so far, to be honest. At least, not any theories that go into significant detail as to the hows and whys. The plot's been kinda tight-lipped with its specifics.

The reason I dismiss dino-demon is simply because dino-demon has no set-up interest in the arc, either plot or theme-wise. But there again, I'm not sure that the dino-demon has been set up as ANYTHING other than being there, just yet. It doesn't care about Keene, as evidenced by it abandoning him. It's only clear goal was to get out of . . . purgatory? Hell? Whatever it was, it's first goal was fulfilled and I don't see any clues to what it wanted beyond that. On the other hand, this whole arc, thematically, has been about loss, trying to get back what you lost, and possibly wanting things you shouldn't have (with Keene, maybe, not enough to go on yet). The dino-demon's motivations are not merely unclear, they are completely unknown, so there's nothing thematically that ties him to this arc. I therefore don't see it as being a narratively satisfying villain. Structurally, there's too much about the dino-demon that would need to be established for it to work, and I don't see that there's any way that you could do that work within the plot at this point that would both work within the narrative flow being set by this arc's pace and also not feel like it came out of nowhere.
Steward, meanwhile, lost his job, his self-respect, and his humanity, all of which ties in thematically with the arc. He was introduced to the plot as a Gendo Ikari shiny-glasses silhouette. That's not just sinister, but if the title text referencing Gendo isn't a superfluous joke, it hints at a guy who is trying to do what he thinks is right, but has his actions compromised by personal desires for things he shouldn't have (Gendo wanted to see his wife again, as well as fight off the angles) and whose abuses are the real cause of conflict in the plot (Gendo's abuses of Shinji were what made Shinji so unfit to pilot the Eva, which was always the biggest source of tension in the angle fights, as I recall). This is also thematically consistent with the arc. And again, he is the only character who is established to have the means of transforming others. So, narratively, he makes sense, where Dino-Demon doesn't unless you are bringing outside assumptions not confirmed within the text to the table.
Or you see something I overlooked. Always a possibility.

Wow, one of my English profs from my college days would be really proud of me for some of those long, complex sentences and that makes my cringe a little bit. But I take solace in the fact that Henry James would still sneer at me for being too concise.

Also, this isn't saying anything relevant to the discussion, but Teen Wolf isn't something I would really accuse of being well-written.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

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I don't think we can make any good theories without at least knowing a little bit more about Marion's and Lois's past beyond "they're in a relationship".
Nobody can go farther than broad strokes that apply to potentially every human in the neighbourhood, because as far as we know right now there's no reason other than species for these two specific individuals to be victims.

The reason I jokingly suggested it might actually be a murder mystery is because it's the same way a lot of classic murder mysteries are set up.
But... even though that was a joke all the posts here that I've actually read have taken an inductive approach to their reasoning, going from the few specifics that the story has given us and trying to make general predictions of what might be revealed at the end. With so few specifics to hand, a deductive approach might actually work better for serious theorizing, and that *could* take the form of looking at the plot devices and tropes of this story so far and figuring out what kinds of stories you might have seen them in before.

So as an example, if the plot really was to transform random people, or a large number of people, and this was a mystery story, it would make more sense for the writer to drop in hints as to why the character we're following might be special, to draw us away from the idea that they're actually not. So if this is a mystery story, the fact that we're not getting any of that information suggests that it's too important to the plot to give away this early, and thus that Marion and Lois have been chosen specifically in some way.
So the question you then have to answer is simply: is this a mystery story? Can we count on it to follow the general concepts that make that kind of story?
If the answer is yes, then now we have something that might be actual information.
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Re: 2019/10/25 - Presto Chango

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Nobody wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:He has been set up as an antagonist (or at least a major player down the line because that was the entire point of part 1 and 2) but the problem is that while I'm a firm believer that the dino-demon is behind this there is no way of knowing that there could be a unseen character pulling the strings. My assumption is based on a two-antagonist narrative at this point. Steward being a secondary antagonist that is more in the lime-light while the true "big bad" is hiding in the shadows. Teen Wolf did a two-antagonist approach where as each season went on the two slowly became more entangled with each other like every season and extremely well I might add. The mystery antagonist doesn't have to pulled out of Rick's butt at the last minute as a "Big Reveal" scenario but brought in earlier under the guise of a stranger appearing in the story. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't eventually. We as the reader can deduce that this so-so character is the main antagonist but the characters wouldn't. Then later on, said villain reveals his scheme and we all pretend to be shocked. That is a more likely approach given Rick's own writing philosophy. Because we know that there is something or someone pulling strings that we have not seen. Both of them have been changed by unknown circumstances at odd times. Marion during the four hours he was asleep and Lois in bright daylight in front of witnesses. Lois's is especially particular for reasons I have stated which is that she seemed to be targeted because of her detective work and her role with Marion which tells me that this wasn't a coincidence or random magical energy surge that happened to affect her at that exact moment Marion was trying to extract Information from Thomas.
One moment, Parsing data . . .

Okay, what evidence do you see points to two antagonists? I don't see any myself within the story that's been revealed. I actually don't see a whole lot of convincing evidence of any theories within the story so far, to be honest. At least, not any theories that go into significant detail as to the hows and whys. The plot's been kinda tight-lipped with its specifics.
I've explained my reasoning several times. I don't know what else I can say. If you expect specific evidence right now that anyone (Steward or ?) is the culprit then you're out of luck. All we know right at this moment is that Steward was not behind Marion's and Lois's change.

Since my Teen Wolf example didn't work let me try a different show. There is an episode of Criminal Minds called "Last Word" where two killers are at work at the same time in the same city. Now the plot focused mainly on the first one who was established early during the episode and the second was left to his own devices until close to the end. If we follow the logic that there was only one serial killer (because it was the only one who revealed his presence both to the audience and the characters) who was performing multiple killings with different victims and means then that would mean that the second would have gotten away with it. We didn't even see the who the second was until right up until the end of the episode.
Nobody wrote:The reason I dismiss dino-demon is simply because dino-demon has no set-up interest in the arc, either plot or theme-wise. But there again, I'm not sure that the dino-demon has been set up as ANYTHING other than being there, just yet. It doesn't care about Keene, as evidenced by it abandoning him. It's only clear goal was to get out of . . . purgatory? Hell? Whatever it was, it's first goal was fulfilled and I don't see any clues to what it wanted beyond that. On the other hand, this whole arc, thematically, has been about loss, trying to get back what you lost, and possibly wanting things you shouldn't have (with Keene, maybe, not enough to go on yet). The dino-demon's motivations are not merely unclear, they are completely unknown, so there's nothing thematically that ties him to this arc. I therefore don't see it as being a narratively satisfying villain. Structurally, there's too much about the dino-demon that would need to be established for it to work, and I don't see that there's any way that you could do that work within the plot at this point that would both work within the narrative flow being set by this arc's pace and also not feel like it came out of nowhere.
Steward, meanwhile, lost his job, his self-respect, and his humanity, all of which ties in thematically with the arc....This is also thematically consistent with the arc. And again, he is the only character who is established to have the means of transforming others. So, narratively, he makes sense, where Dino-Demon doesn't unless you are bringing outside assumptions not confirmed within the text to the table.
Or you see something I overlooked. Always a possibility.
Again, Steward would have no logical or logistical means of changing either of one of them despite having the coin which he has made no noticeable moves of using but has only hinted at. I believe he will use it farther down the line but for right now he is not responsible for Marion or Lois, someone else is for reasons previously stated. This is why I believe that there is another unknown player at work pulling the strings for a scheme that will be revealed in time. The reason I use the Dino-Demon as an example is because he is an unknown. We know nothing of his powers, goals, motivations BUT he clearly was set-up to have a major role down the line given his mysteriousness and the fact that he simply disappeared. Why would he have escaped if he was not meant to become a threat or have a role later on? The fact that we know so little about him makes him a potential suspect as you yourself have pointed out that Rick would not simply spring an random character into the story as the villain. Dino-Demon was introduced and given where he is from and his non-threatening appearance makes him suspicious as well as the "Deal has been Struck" moment which is a clear indication that there was/is more to it than meets the eye. Again just because Dino-Demon or whoever and their motivations have not been established yet does not mean that they will not be established later on. Example Gale.
DinoDemon is not the most ideal suspect but like any criminal investigation he is our only suspect until more evidence is presented and we have to make due for the time being. It’s better than saying UNSUB each time.
So I may be bringing outside assumptions when I suggest Dino-Demon but saying Steward is behind it based on theme which by definition is subjective is also not solid evidence established within the plot.

Nobody wrote:Also, this isn't saying anything relevant to the discussion, but Teen Wolf isn't something I would really accuse of being well-written.
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