2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by restcure »

So, being involuntary, wouldn't the term then be "transedgender" ?
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Argent »

Hmmm...

This makes me wonder if Theme Park World is still operating.
bjchan95 wrote:Turned into a squirrel, changed genders, met a crazy fox, became a member of the ECP, had the whole school learn of his squirrelness, and fell in the toilet.
Poor Marion can’t catch a break :?
You're making him sound like a Gilbert Gottfried character.
leinglo wrote:Honestly, by Babylon Gardens standards, starting a dynasty of squirrel emperors is not a bad plan. :lol:
There's a squirrel nunnery near Babylon Gardens, so he could start by taking over that.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by GameCobra »

Squirrels have a mortal enemy? =P
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by SeanWolf »

I can easily tell Marion is now pretty much fed-up with the situation. Though I'm curious as to why he said Winnipeg.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Argent »

SeanWolf wrote:I can easily tell Marion is now pretty much fed-up with the situation. Though I'm curious as to why he said Winnipeg.
Schenechtedy is too crowded.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by VeryAngryDeer »

Argent wrote:There's a squirrel nunnery near Babylon Gardens, so he could start by taking over that.
Get thee to a nunnery.


I've been lurking on these forums for the past few weeks, as I was unable to get my account verified. As such, there's been a few thoughts I wanted to share but couldn't until now.

The whole situation with Marion swapping sex, and the forum's varied reactions to it, reminded me of a video by Overly Sarcastic Productions. In their Trope Talks video about Robots, Red cautions people about using Coding in their work, or reading Coding into things (Coding being where you create a situation to be analogous to another,) particularly where the analogy has some issues if you try to apply it to real life. Trying to create a civil rights analogy but using robots, for instance. The civil rights movement was predicated on the idea that non-white people are human, and deserve the same rights as white people do. You can't apply that to robots - by definition they are not human. Even if they were 100% capable of passing the Turing Test while standing right in front of you, could you ever know that they were sapient, instead of just a series of mimicing algorythms? So to suggest that robots could be a 100% stand in for non-white people is to suggest that non-white people in real life are not human. The analogy doesn't work, and can be considered morally reprehensible (what is meant when people use the term "problematic").

To apply this to Housepets... in real life (and as far as the public in the Housepets universe knew) people do not turn into squirrels. People do not suddenly become the opposite sex. People with gender dysphoria usually have it throughout their lives. (I did look up Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria, but only found that the phenomenon wasn't well proven enough to be used by the medical community.)

As such, while we may be tempted to draw parallels, we should understand that the situation in the comic is different to the situation in real life. A few pages back, we see Marion's mother use some phrases that a forum user noted were word-for-word something that is said by some parents of trans people in real life. But in real life, gender dysphoria is a well known condition, and the parent is present the whole time. There is no sudden transformation, just a reveal of information the parent didn't previously know.

In this situation, from Marion's mother's point of view, her child has gone missing and in its place is a squirrel of the wrong sex claiming to be her child. If we were treating this as a 100% analogy, we might be calling Marion's mother a transphobe. But this is not a 100% analogy, so we have to consider that she has significant reason to be skeptical of the situation, or even resentful of a character we know is telling the truth, but she doesn't.

TL;DR: Be careful when trying to equate events in a fictional work with events in real life.


On the subject of pronouns: Even if you do not believe in transgenderism IRL, It is part of the premise of the comic that a person can retain their gender even after having their sex changed. Therefore Marion has a masculine gender while being biologically female, and should be referred to as such.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Frank »

Marion is literally up a tree

Lois seems pretty used to seeing Marion like this

It does make me wonder
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Nobody »

bjchan95 wrote:Turned into a squirrel, changed genders, met a crazy fox, became a member of the ECP, had the whole school learn of his squirrelness, and fell in the toilet.
Poor Marion can’t catch a break :?
Incidentally, Crazy Fox was Kari's Indian Guide name, back when the Y still called them that.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by NHWestoN »

GameCobra wrote:Squirrels have a mortal enemy? =P

Actually, ferrets and pine martins prey on them. Not Keene and Breel, of course, but in the feral world....
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Argent »

NHWestoN wrote:pine martins
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by dr_eirik »

fenrirblack wrote:
I would like to put Illinois back on the table for "Where on Earth is Babylon Gardens?"
I'm guessing that this question comes up from time-to-time on the forums. Illinois seems like a likely candidate. I've thought that it was somewhere in the upper mid-west/Great Lakes region. I'm not even sure that the comic ever specifies that it's in the United States (though I can recall Keene saying he was ordained to perform marriages in the State of <cough, cough> That implies US.)

I'm also somewhat gratified that apparently Winnipeg here is just a ramble from Marion and not yet another reference that went right over my head.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by max7345 »

max7345 wrote:Next comic: Marion shows up somewhere soaking wet because he facepalmed so hard that he fell in the toilet.

Calling it now.
Called it!

...Well, ok, he's not soaking wet. But I was right about all the other stuff.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by fenrirblack »

dr_eirik wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:
I would like to put Illinois back on the table for "Where on Earth is Babylon Gardens?"
I'm guessing that this question comes up from time-to-time on the forums. Illinois seems like a likely candidate. I've thought that it was somewhere in the upper mid-west/Great Lakes region. I'm not even sure that the comic ever specifies that it's in the United States (though I can recall Keene saying he was ordained to perform marriages in the State of <cough, cough> That implies US.)
It’s either Illinois or Missouri. After 11+ years of context clues those are basically the realistic options.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by dr_eirik »

fenrirblack wrote:
dr_eirik wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:
I would like to put Illinois back on the table for "Where on Earth is Babylon Gardens?"
I'm guessing that this question comes up from time-to-time on the forums. Illinois seems like a likely candidate. I've thought that it was somewhere in the upper mid-west/Great Lakes region. I'm not even sure that the comic ever specifies that it's in the United States (though I can recall Keene saying he was ordained to perform marriages in the State of <cough, cough> That implies US.)
It’s either Illinois or Missouri. After 11+ years of context clues those are basically the realistic options.
I'm curious what those clues are. I know there are huge swaths of the country ruled out based on what we've seen (too much snow for the entire Southern US from Atlanta to LA, forests are notprimarily pine so not the Pacific North West, too hilly to be the midwest...) But I can't recall seeing anything out of place from New England though the Great Lakes and down trough the Ohio River Valley.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Cesco »

Ok, Marion is going crazy being a squirrel... :( He's going nuts! :lol: Your clothes are drying, but, have you washed them after have fallen in the WC? Eww... :P I agree with Lois, stop rambling, and continue to life your squirrel's life, always hoping that there can be a solution to return back as you were... :|
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by tych »

Obbl wrote:
tych wrote:what gender pronouns do I use
Marion is physically in the body of a female squirrel, and considers himself to be male as he was before the transformation. He has expressed a desire for others to use male pronouns when referring to him, and every other character thus far has accepted this. The pronoun thing really shouldn't be that hard people :P
you see you say that but when talking about someone you generally use the gender appropriate nouns unless told otherwise just wanted to check also do we still not know who blundered on the whole Marion is a girl thing cause I kinda get the sense that this will come back around eventually to "what do you mean she is a boy her name is Marion" I just want to know if that got any discussion on the Forum
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Argent »

fenrirblack wrote:It’s either Illinois or Missouri. After 11+ years of context clues those are basically the realistic options.
I'd like to see your reasoning.

Here's Douglas's map, based on the Cory/Trinket arc: https://www.housepetscomic.com/forums/v ... 49#p651149

And mine based on 9 hours from (some point in) Kansas: https://www.housepetscomic.com/forums/v ... 15#p517415
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by NHWestoN »

Argent wrote:
NHWestoN wrote:pine martins
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I think I made that mistake once before. How silly of a former YMCA Nature counselor. Nice pictures, too.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by dr_eirik »

Argent wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:It’s either Illinois or Missouri. After 11+ years of context clues those are basically the realistic options.
I'd like to see your reasoning.

Here's Douglas's map, based on the Cory/Trinket arc: https://www.housepetscomic.com/forums/v ... 49#p651149

And mine based on 9 hours from (some point in) Kansas: https://www.housepetscomic.com/forums/v ... 15#p517415
You could likely eliminate some of that territory on your map based on a couple other factors. One is that King has no idea what they have in Kansas. Since there is a lot of similarity right around there, that should eliminate some of the neighboring territory. The other is snowfall levels. I'm not certain, but I'm not sure you generally get the amount of snow you see in HP once you get to Texas.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by CunningFox »

Note that, even though it's summer, Lois is wearing her jacket, implying they're not in a hot part of the country.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Keeshah »

Welsh Halfwit wrote:
dr_eirik wrote: I wonder if we are heading into a weekend here. There was the number of days left in school error Rick corrected a few days back that left there ond more weekend before school ends. Hopefully, Marion doesn't decide to rejoin the gang at the treehouse.
Kinda hope he does on a 'just visiting' basis. He needs some friendly guys to teach him something he really needs to know at the moment.

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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Argent »

dr_eirik wrote:King has no idea what they have in Kansas.
What do you mean by that?
The other is snowfall levels. I'm not certain, but I'm not sure you generally get the amount of snow you see in HP once you get to Texas.
That was mentioned in the message above mine in the second thread :-), but Colorado/Utah and points north are still in play.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by dr_eirik »

CunningFox wrote:Note that, even though it's summer, Lois is wearing her jacket, implying they're not in a hot part of the country.
Summer in any of the lower 48 states can be anything from cool to stifling, sometimes in the same week. I grew up in the greater Los Angeles area, and I often wore sweatshirts because it was cold in the morning.

I think it's more likely just that this is the character design for Lois, so she'll tend to dress the same way when we see her.
Argent wrote:
dr_eirik wrote:King has no idea what they have in Kansas.
What do you mean by that?
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Kanexan »

I am outraged by this comic's slander against Kansas's good name. There's more than just corn, wheat, and cows here! Like sorghum! Everybody likes sorghum, right? Right?
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by dr_eirik »

Kanexan wrote:I am outraged by this comic's slander against Kansas's good name. There's more than just corn, wheat, and cows here! Like sorghum! Everybody likes sorghum, right? Right?
Uh, sure. Love the stuff. Just had a bowl of it for lunch. Right. That's the ticket. 8-)
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Amazee Dayzee »

Hey Diss! I think that we just found your soulmate! He wants to take over the world as much as you want to. XD
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by fenrirblack »

Argent wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:It’s either Illinois or Missouri. After 11+ years of context clues those are basically the realistic options.
I'd like to see your reasoning.
I give you this. There are two Springfields that would be big cities to mention. One in Missouri and the other in Illinois. Not to mention if Babylon Gardens was on the route from Springfield to Chicago that limits it even more.
Then there is the constant references to corn mentioned/seen during the Fair and since Illinois is one of the largest suppliers of corn in the country.
Not to mention the amount of heavy snowfall which would put it in the northern reaches of the country.
Marion's mention of Winnipeg tells me that it would be someplace fairly close to Canada and Manitoba or at least within reasonable driving distance.

If you want to get technical about it. Nebraska is the only other real option but I usually leave it out because Springfield, Nebraska is small like really small.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Argent »

dr_eirik wrote:King has no idea what they have in Kansas.
The "9 hours" figure was from Peanut and Grape's trip. Nothing to do with King.
fenrirblack wrote:There are two Springfields that would be big cities to mention.
Springfield could also be a Simpson's reference, and the Simpson's Springfield could be anywhere.

As for the corn, that could put them *anywhere* on the Great Plains, from Oklahoma (where the corn is as high as an Elephant's eye) to the Corn Palace of South Dakota, or, well, anywhere near Kansas.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by fenrirblack »

Argent wrote:
dr_eirik wrote:King has no idea what they have in Kansas.
The "9 hours" figure was from Peanut and Grape's trip. Nothing to do with King.
fenrirblack wrote:There are two Springfields that would be big cities to mention.
Springfield could also be a Simpson's reference, and the Simpson's Springfield could be anywhere.

As for the corn, that could put them *anywhere* on the Great Plains, from Oklahoma (where the corn is as high as an Elephant's eye) to the Corn Palace of South Dakota, or, well, anywhere near Kansas.
You know how many Springfields there are? A lot of them. SO i doubt it's a Simpson's reference. It's a very common city name. It would make more sense for it to be one of the real ones. The corn thing would still put them someplace where Corn is such a stable that it's more than it "grows here" to "it's our lively hood." It's not much but it's something that eliminates states. We already know it's near Kansas. We know it's not Oklahoma. There was something else. The bandits were going down the Mississippi to the Gulf which runs past Both Illinois and Missouri.

If you want to uber technical then upper reaches of Illinois is nine hours from anywhere in Kansas. Good portions of Illinois is nine hours away from Kansas to justify the fact it would have taken nine hours to get to Rueben's home. Springfield MO is large enough to be worth mentioning and recognizable as a large significant city. You would take 44 then 55 practically the entire way to get to Chicago.

All I'm saying is that based on the context seen in the comic it can be deduced that the most likely states where Babylon Gardens is located is one of these three states: Illinois, Nebraska, and Missouri. My absolute best guess would be somewhere around Omaha NE. For what it's worth, you can take 29 straight to Winnipeg from Omaha.
Last edited by fenrirblack on Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:58 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by NHWestoN »

CunningFox wrote:Note that, even though it's summer, Lois is wearing her jacket, implying they're not in a hot part of the country.
it's a fashion statement for some folks. It'ud be July and hotter than forty Pandemoniums but some folks still wore jackets. There were also some who perhaps wore their jackets because they didn't have an extensive wardrobe and the air-conditioning in our buildings was set to ice tray output.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Frank »

fenrirblack wrote:
dr_eirik wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:
I would like to put Illinois back on the table for "Where on Earth is Babylon Gardens?"
I'm guessing that this question comes up from time-to-time on the forums. Illinois seems like a likely candidate. I've thought that it was somewhere in the upper mid-west/Great Lakes region. I'm not even sure that the comic ever specifies that it's in the United States (though I can recall Keene saying he was ordained to perform marriages in the State of <cough, cough> That implies US.)
It’s either Illinois or Missouri. After 11+ years of context clues those are basically the realistic options.
Of course the real answer probably is... The Tri-State Area!

...which actually would mean either Alexandria, MO or Cairo, IL, since those are the only triple points with both of those states
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Elwood Blutarsky »

I always pictured the comic as being a Minnesota/Wisconsin/Upper Midwest style place...But in all honesty it's generic for a reason so everyone can project their own thoughts into it and now end up stuck in the ball of "It's a (insert place here) thing, you wouldn't understand."
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Gameb18oy »

dr_eirik wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:Walk away Lois. Walk away. You're a good girlfriend but there are some things that aren't worth it.

I would like to put Illinois back on the table for "Where on Earth is Babylon Gardens?"

The rambling of a teenage outcast. Next thing you know he'll dye his fur and join a garage band and start listening to Fall Out Boy.

Lois puts up with too much.
I don't think that's fair to either of them. Marion had a (somewhat predicdably) lousy day. He's angry and in pain. And, for the moment, they still consider themselves together. He needs Lois more than ever, now.

I remember wondering if he might go native out of frustration, and it almost looks like he will here, but I think Lois will talk him down.

I wonder if we are heading into a weekend here. There was the number of days left in school error Rick corrected a few days back that left there ond more weekend before school ends. Hopefully, Marion doesn't decide to rejoin the gang at the treehouse.
Personally, I think it's more interesting analyzing how Lois is acting. She seems kinda used to this, and the idea that this was pretty much in keeping in how he probably acted as a human does make it a little more enjoyable to read. Also, seems Marion is taking well to his climbing abilities. Pretty lame as far as animal superpowers he could have gotten (Do squirrels get the cheek pouch thing? Maybe he'll find a use for that if so) but at least he's finding some uses for it

[edit] Also focusing in on the fact that the odd ramblings of Marion might be a reference to Diss... wonder if there are any other references Rick has planned. Can't go so far as to make another Karishad basically, but be neat to have some in-jokes for the forumites.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by GameCobra »

Gameb18oy wrote:[edit] Also focusing in on the fact that the odd ramblings of Marion might be a reference to Diss... wonder if there are any other references Rick has planned. Can't go so far as to make another Karishad basically, but be neat to have some in-jokes for the forumites.
My best guess is that Diss can only be blamed for Rick being so into drawing squirrels in this arc as much as i can be blamed for asking Rick to draw more kittens in the comic. :3

In other words - Diss is probably rolling into a pile of nuts now, shouting "yaaaaaaaay!"
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Amazee Dayzee »

Diss's wife in the future now confirmed. ;)
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Dissension »

I'd question the age gap, but the more important distinction is that Marion would be my husband, rather than my wife.
restcure wrote:So, being involuntary, wouldn't the term then be "transedgender" ?
Nah, the state of being transgender just means your gender and sex don't match. Nobody in the real world decides to be trans, either, it just happens.
tych wrote:you see you say that but when talking about someone you generally use the gender appropriate nouns unless told otherwise just wanted to check also do we still not know who blundered on the whole Marion is a girl thing cause I kinda get the sense that this will come back around eventually to "what do you mean she is a boy her name is Marion" I just want to know if that got any discussion on the Forum
"Gender-appropriate (pro)nouns" are whatever someone tells you theirs are. If you get the wrong ones, ya just apologize and try to do better. I'm not sure I understand the rest of your question, sorry.
VeryAngryDeer wrote:Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria
Yeah, that's not a thing.
VeryAngryDeer wrote:On the subject of pronouns: Even if you do not believe in transgenderism IRL, It is part of the premise of the comic that a person can retain their gender even after having their sex changed. Therefore Marion has a masculine gender while being biologically female, and should be referred to as such.
Trans people do exist, so saying "I don't believe in that" is roughly the same as saying "I don't believe in salt."
Gameb18oy wrote:Also focusing in on the fact that the odd ramblings of Marion might be a reference to Diss... wonder if there are any other references Rick has planned. Can't go so far as to make another Karishad basically, but be neat to have some in-jokes for the forumites.
A couple of us have made cameos directly and ya never know when background squirrels mighta been subtle nods to me, at least. For example, a long time ago, I thought about changing from a squirrel fursona to a crow.
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by NHWestoN »

no salt …….. ?
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Buster »

there's a River Ridge High school at 4141 IL-84, Hanover, IL 61041 which is about an hour or two north of Springfield if i'm reading this map right. if it's the right school, for miles to have a reasonable commute, BG is within an hour's drive.

it's within the 9 hour envelope and within the range for opossums, it's a bit outside the range for the appropriate variety of magpie, but not out of hitchhiking distance of it, and as others have pointed out, that state fits the climate and geography criteria.
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Gameb18oy
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by Gameb18oy »

Dissension wrote:
Gameb18oy wrote:Also focusing in on the fact that the odd ramblings of Marion might be a reference to Diss... wonder if there are any other references Rick has planned. Can't go so far as to make another Karishad basically, but be neat to have some in-jokes for the forumites.

A couple of us have made cameos directly and ya never know when background squirrels mighta been subtle nods to me, at least. For example, a long time ago, I thought about changing from a squirrel fursona to a crow.

You're alluding to your cameo in Keene's trip to heaven aren't you? Also, who else has had a cameo out of curiousity? I'm guessing it's not just people he chooses randomly, is it something related to patreon or something?
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Re: 2019/09/30 - Circle Of Life

Post by fenrirblack »

I know he’s rambling randomly but what “Mortal enemies” would he have in Canada? I mean it’s Canada. OMG the Moose! It all makes sense. :lol:
Gameb18oy wrote: Personally, I think it's more interesting analyzing how Lois is acting. She seems kinda used to this, and the idea that this was pretty much in keeping in how he probably acted as a human does make it a little more enjoyable to read. Also, seems Marion is taking well to his climbing abilities. Pretty lame as far as animal superpowers he could have gotten (Do squirrels get the cheek pouch thing? Maybe he'll find a use for that if so) but at least he's finding some uses for it.
Honestly if this is a more common occurrence of Marion “breaking down” then I fear for their relationship. But props for Lois for her stern “take no carp” attitude. It takes a lot of patience to deal with someone who is having a moment.
There is so much to notice from how she’s handling this situation. The first question she asks is “Why are you naked again?” (In her mind she probably asking “Why are you so embarrassing?”) which tells me that she stills sees Marion as more human than squirrel or want to anyway. We come a long way from her roughing him up in the woods.
It is also worth questioning why she’s out there looking for him? If this is still lunch break then did something happen that would compel her to look for him or is this a routine check-in to see how he’s doing? Does she know that he’s been having a hard time because it would be obvious that he would be. We all knew this was going to be hard. I would have loved to see her reaction to Miles’s announcement.
Judging from the hands on hips I have a feeling she’s about to drop some tough love on him. I can’t wait to see that.
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