2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

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dr_eirik
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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by dr_eirik »

D-Rock wrote:There was a snake in the first zoo arc, and the roos mentioned Cathy from the reptile house, who was a viper, and Fluffy the alligator.
Right after I posted that, I thought about the zoo arc and wondered if I'd forgotten anyone. Fluffy, though, never spoke.
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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by Argent »

dr_eirik wrote:That assumes it heals your health effects. It would suck to be a diabetic chipmunk.
Marion apparently still has his nut allergy. Or maybe he's just assuming that?
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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by Gameb18oy »

D-Rock wrote:There was a snake in the first zoo arc, and the roos mentioned Cathy from the reptile house, who was a viper, and Fluffy the alligator.
There's a debate to be had if Fluffy was sapient or not, they didn't seem to even understand why they were being attacked. Honestly, they seemed less of a threat than the gun the kidnapper had regardless. Also, leave it to us furries not to see any downsides with turning into an animal randomly XD.
Argent wrote:
dr_eirik wrote:That assumes it heals your health effects. It would suck to be a diabetic chipmunk.
Marion apparently still has his nut allergy. Or maybe he's just assuming that?
Probably keep things like ADHD present if Peanut is any indication

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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by Cesco »

Eh, naturally, there's still a lot of astonishment between others to believe that the squirrel is really Marion. :) And, we would like to know how it happened, too... :P So, you seem to think that become an animal is solving the problems you were having till when you were an human? :roll: That's a great advantage of ECP, actually, but maybe, pay the studies wasn't one of his problems. Eheh, your schoolmates who are interested in that need to become an animal, for first thing. :P
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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by fenrirblack »

dr_eirik wrote:
D-Rock wrote:There was a snake in the first zoo arc, and the roos mentioned Cathy from the reptile house, who was a viper, and Fluffy the alligator.
Right after I posted that, I thought about the zoo arc and wondered if I'd forgotten anyone. Fluffy, though, never spoke.
Well technically Fluffy never spoke actual words but he go "aww" which means he was sapient.
Argent wrote:
dr_eirik wrote:That assumes it heals your health effects. It would suck to be a diabetic chipmunk.
Marion apparently still has his nut allergy. Or maybe he's just assuming that?
He hasn't eaten a nut yet as far as we know so there is no telling if that allergy is still in place. He's too scared to risk it.
dr_eirik wrote:You know, one aspect I think people are skipping is that Marion never says HIS tuition is covered, only confirms that Miles had his covered. I suspect if humans started transforming in large numbers, Lana would curtail that. Perhaps limit it to natural born animals.
The college thing is complicated for a number of reasons. First there will never be a mass transformation epidemic, let's be honest. Next The Milton's have billions and billions so paying for college wouldn't bankrupt them for the few people actually desperate enough to gamble taking the transformation route for a free ride. If Steward showed up right there in the cafeteria with the coin, they might change their tune right away.
Honestly the Miltons have the money to open their own college which might be the best option if animals and therianthropes start showing up out of the woodwork asking for them to pay for their tuition. Miles was a special case since none of the other wolves went down that route so I can't imagine too many other animals would want the same except for Gale but even then she's working and making money so she won't need finical aid. Considering the ferals' aversion to the ECP I'm not worried. Besides from Mairon's case, there is only one other known way of even transforming which is the coin. If the greater population learns about it, the SWAT team will confiscate it so even then the number of people who did use it would be limited. Out of those who did manage to use it, the percentage of them who would seek out the Milton's fortune to pay for stuff like tuition would be low (I would hope). AND let's say there was a good portion of animals banging on the Milton's door for financial assistance, the best thing they could do is create a scholarship.
dr_eirik wrote:Edit: I was trying to extrapolate reasons why someone might want to transform in the HPU setting, and a thought occured. Assuming that the process that transformed Marion is similar to the coin, what if it erased your health issues? You might end up an anteater, but your severe diabetes is gone, or your a paraplegic and all the nerve damage is repaired?

In a setting like HP, where even if you ended up a hooved animal, you could still have your mind and ability to communicate. Even with the major random chance(about 10 to 1 you end up as prey, we dont know if you might not even be a mammal) I could see a lot of people jumping at the chance.

That assumes it heals your health effects. It would suck to be a diabetic chipmunk.
There are a lot of reasons why people would want to take the gamble and not just for finical aid. Not to mention that technically there are certain "human" diseases and conditions that wouldn't effect animals so if you had a life threatening disease then completely changing your DNA would solve that. I read a story once about a similar situation where a man became a gorilla to cure his life threatening disease. There is no telling if it would regrow a limb or cure an allergy.
Champion Wallace wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:Wait a minute. Becoming an animal did solve all of King’s problems.
Um, yea. That's what people have been saying since Marion was introduced, and more generally, since King was introduced. The important distinction that always came with it is Joel's life as a human sucked. He had more enemies than friends, was out of a job and about to be sentenced to jail. Marion on the other hand had his life ahead of him. He has a time sensitive graduation to get done and he has people that care about him. Becoming an animal doesn't solve all your problems, it just solves the problems Joel happened to have. With that in mind, it would be *tricky* to market the coin's power as a literal "get out of jail free card" without getting shut down.
I’m one of those people who’ve been saying that from the beginning. Everything you said still proves my point that Marion is technically wrong about “being an animal doesn’t solves all your problems.” Again, just because he had a life and a future doesn’t automatically mean that, like Joel, there are those whose lives wouldn’t greatly improve by changing species and not just to “get out of jail.” Again, and I cannot emphasize this enough, it all depends on what animal you become.
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Ash Greytree
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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by Ash Greytree »

Part 4 of Marion's arc is heavily emphasizing the ECP as a plot point and is likely going to be a major focal point of the next bunch of arcs going forward, alongside Marion. Real interested in seeing where this goes.

Yeah, like others have said, I don't think Keene would take too kindly to having to pay for a ton of human-turned-animals' education. He could, however, direct the interest in the ECP generated by Marion's transformation toward some sort of volunteer program that offers scholarships. Humans tutor animals on the ins and outs of daily human life, and in return the humans get some (keyword "some") money toward their college tuition. It'd be a win-win. But once the cause of Marion's transformation is discovered, if it's something re-usable or repeatable and (most importantly) reversible, then Keene's going to find some way to exploit that.

Keene could use the cause of Marion's transformation to create some sort of "Mile in Our Paws" program like I've talked about before. In a bid to further animal equality, Keene sets it up so that humans can volunteer to turn into animals for a week or so and see what it's like to gain empathy for the animal condition. With his more grandiose ambitions likely tempered by the events of Temple Crashers 2 and Breel now serving as his better half, a volunteer program to temporarily turn people into animals is something that allows him to use magic(k) to further his family's goals without accidentally unleashing disaster on himself and those he cares for.
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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by dr_eirik »

Ash Greytree wrote: Keene could use the cause of Marion's transformation to create some sort of "Mile in Our Paws" program like I've talked about before. In a bid to further animal equality, Keene sets it up so that humans can volunteer to turn into animals for a week or so and see what it's like to gain empathy for the animal condition. With his more grandiose ambitions likely tempered by the events of Temple Crashers 2 and Breel now serving as his better half, a volunteer program to temporarily turn people into animals is something that allows him to use magic(k) to further his family's goals without accidentally unleashing disaster on himself and those he cares for.
I could see this happening if both they figure out what transformed Marion in the first place and how to undo it. Without the undo step, I think the number of volunteers drops rather fast. The only way to undo this before has been direct involvement of either Pete or Kitsune. Neither is exactly a reliable option at this point.
Xane wrote: Miles has yet to learn the subtle art of subtlety.
I suspect that it's a bit of a wolven blind spot.
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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by fenrirblack »

It is worth noting that Marion and King make up two sides of the TF coin. You have King whose life greatly improved by changing into an animal and (eventually) chose to transform. Then Marion who lost more than he gained (big time). If Keene did make the option to transform and join the ECP available to humans, they both would be good to have as speakers and examples of the risk and reward. Or both to have to show the benefits of the ECP to both humans and animals. What job title would you have if you went around giving speeches and lectures of the behalf of the ECP? Promoter maybe?
Xane wrote:
anhedral wrote:
dr_eirik wrote:I can't help but feel Marion is talking to me directly somehow. 8-)

As many hours as I've daydreamed, I'm sure the reality would be much less than desirable.
I feel pretty much the same. When we read Marion's dialogue in today's strip, it's tempting to imagine that Rick might be having a gentle, good-natured giggle about the very fandom to which he is such an outstanding contributor.
Honestly I don't think people realize 1) how mentally damaging it would be (a large part of why I absolutely hate TF stories) 2) how much more difficult it would make your life, and that's if you're not unlucky enough to be quadruped - even little things, like if you're an artist you may not have the manual dexterity of a human and you get fur all over it, especially if you're mixed media/clay/etc 2) how potentially disgusting it would be (Sofia's awfully cute, but when it comes down to it, camels are gross! :P )
There is a big difference between choice and forced TF. Marion's situation was forced and King chose to stay a dog. I could write a book on this subject but for the sake of convenience, I'll make this short. Like any kind of drastic alteration to one's lifestyle there are consequences that have to be taken into consideration. That is why I think, if transformation was made readily available, there would have to be a system in place that says "Are You Sure?" But there are benefits too. The world isn't black and white and while there are those like Marion who neither needed or wanted this change, there are those who actually did *cough King.*

At that point, its time to break out the yellow legal pad and do a pro's and con's chart. What are you risking? Are you willing to put your social standing in jeopardy? Your family? Friends? Will they accept your decision? Family reunions will definitely be awkward but if you're like me and already a social outcast among your family, it's like who cares. What are you gaining? Is there something like the ECP who will help you out? What biological risks are there? Do you just want to be pet? But the biggest question of all, are you happy now and will this make you happy afterwards? There are those who will check all the boxes and those who would do it anyway because they didn't think it through. Would I do it? Yes, if I had a choice of what I would end up as. IF it was random I would hesitate more but still do it with knowledge of the consequences that follow and knowing that I am taking a huge risk that might not be as satisfying as what I picture in my mind. But that is my choice and not everyone, even in the furry fandom, would be willing to make that call. Even then, I'm not giving as much up. As long as I can type on a computer I'm good to go.

It is a gamble when dealing with something like the coin. In reality, if something like this was readily available there are things would be more complicated. When dealing with Forced TF in any reality things get more complicated. There is no good way of saying that forced TF is going to be good for anyone unless you are really lucky to get an animal that you like and could live with. In the world of the HPU being forced wouldn't be nearly as bad or destructive as the real world. In the HPU it is more desirable because they are anthropomorphic no matter what while in reality anthropomorphism is an unlikely possibility even if the possibility of transforming existed.

When it comes to TF stories I much rather enjoy stories that rely more on choice and sentience rather than the alternative. I won't lie that I am sadistic enough to enjoy forced TF and wrote a few myself but you have to look at the after effects which is something that is rarely seen in literature and that aftermath can vary depending on circumstances. Even forced TF can be presented in a positive light. There are stories that focus on the benefits and those like Metamorphosis which is definitely negative. And in any story, the character is not going to be completely unscathed but mental issues among other side effects still depends on what happens after that fact. Will they end up like Marion and regain some normalcy and acceptance or will they be a prisoner for seven months like King. That is the real takeaway from any TF story or transformation in general.

Call me John Oliver because I just did that episode that was mentioned the other day, just with less jokes and cussing.
Xane wrote:
dr_eirik wrote:You know, one aspect I think people are skipping is that Marion never says HIS tuition is covered, only confirms that Miles had his covered.
See, I assumed the tuition part of the ECP was explained in Miles' morning announcement where he gave away Marion's secret without thinking about whether that was a good idea. The tuition thing is also probably not a good idea to just say out loud, it could easily backfire and cause all sorts of resentment against animals getting a free ride and make more people oppose equality.

Miles has yet to learn the subtle art of subtlety.
As much as I hate to say it, Miles should have kept his maw shut because now he's gotten the students riled up in a bad way. Free tuition is not a good enough reason to go through a transformation. You have to really want it and be prepared to deal with the consequences. If the Miltons are going to throw money at animals more in the future they are going to have to do it in a way that is not only finically acceptable but also sociopolitically acceptable.
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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by dr_eirik »

fenrirblack wrote:It is worth noting that Marion and King make up two sides of the TF coin. You have King whose life greatly improved by changing into an animal and (eventually) chose to transform. Then Marion who lost more than he gained (big time). If Keene did make the option to transform and join the ECP available to humans, they both would be good to have as speakers and examples of the risk and reward. Or both to have to show the benefits of the ECP to both humans and animals. What job title would you have if you went around giving speeches and lectures of the behalf of the ECP? Promoter maybe?
I think it should be noted that, while so far we haven't seen a single area where things have gotten better for Marion (and we likely won't), I'm not sure that Kings life improved 100% because of the transformation.

Kings life got better because of those that he met along the way. Fox and Bailey in-particular. If his interactions with the neighborhood dogs had been limited to, say, Bino and Dutchess, then things might have gone much, much different.

Think about one of the options that he had: Kitsune told him that he could return to his human life with his record expunged. That implies he would have returned to his old self with a clean slate. What if Pete had simply offered that? Use a touch of magic(k) to clear his record and allow him a fresh start? No transformation, but his life at least had a chance to improve. By the time he had been given that option, he was in love and had a support base.

Of course, in his story that does't work since the avatar had to be a cat or a dog, but Joel could have been reformed without the transformation.
fenrirblack wrote:
As much as I hate to say it, Miles should have kept his maw shut because now he's gotten the students riled up in a bad way. Free tuition is not a good enough reason to go through a transformation. You have to really want it and be prepared to deal with the consequences. If the Miltons are going to throw money at animals more in the future they are going to have to do it in a way that is not only finically acceptable but also sociopolitically acceptable.
I somehow doubt that Miles went on a tangent about his experience with the ECP during the morning announcement that was about Marion. He's been at that school for at least a little while, I'm sure at some point someone asked him how, as a wild animal, he was able to afford college. Then he just said he was paid out of the ECP.

At the time, I doubt that anyone would have raised much of an eyebrow at that. There were (as far as we know) very few in the ECP and only Miles had gone to college on their dime. And there was no avenue for a human high school student to take advantage of that. It's only when a squirrel shows up that claims to be a missing classmate that anyone even thinks about the connection. Or the possibilities.

And it is very easy for a high school student to say "Free tuition? Give me a tail!" and another thing to actually have a badger with a magic coin standing in front of you, to be sure.

But you offer that to someone like me, middle aged and some health problems? I'd have to think about it. Since my kids are still teens, I'd likely say no for now, but five years from now with them out of the house, and my medical issues possibly worse? I might risk being a donkey that could talk or a mouse for a few more healthy years.
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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by Gameb18oy »

dr_eirik wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:It is worth noting that Marion and King make up two sides of the TF coin. You have King whose life greatly improved by changing into an animal and (eventually) chose to transform. Then Marion who lost more than he gained (big time). If Keene did make the option to transform and join the ECP available to humans, they both would be good to have as speakers and examples of the risk and reward. Or both to have to show the benefits of the ECP to both humans and animals. What job title would you have if you went around giving speeches and lectures of the behalf of the ECP? Promoter maybe?
I think it should be noted that, while so far we haven't seen a single area where things have gotten better for Marion (and we likely won't), I'm not sure that Kings life improved 100% because of the transformation.

Kings life got better because of those that he met along the way. Fox and Bailey in-particular. If his interactions with the neighborhood dogs had been limited to, say, Bino and Dutchess, then things might have gone much, much different.

Think about one of the options that he had: Kitsune told him that he could return to his human life with his record expunged. That implies he would have returned to his old self with a clean slate. What if Pete had simply offered that? Use a touch of magic(k) to clear his record and allow him a fresh start? No transformation, but his life at least had a chance to improve. By the time he had been given that option, he was in love and had a support base.

Of course, in his story that does't work since the avatar had to be a cat or a dog, but Joel could have been reformed without the transformation.
fenrirblack wrote:
As much as I hate to say it, Miles should have kept his maw shut because now he's gotten the students riled up in a bad way. Free tuition is not a good enough reason to go through a transformation. You have to really want it and be prepared to deal with the consequences. If the Miltons are going to throw money at animals more in the future they are going to have to do it in a way that is not only finically acceptable but also sociopolitically acceptable.
I somehow doubt that Miles went on a tangent about his experience with the ECP during the morning announcement that was about Marion. He's been at that school for at least a little while, I'm sure at some point someone asked him how, as a wild animal, he was able to afford college. Then he just said he was paid out of the ECP.

At the time, I doubt that anyone would have raised much of an eyebrow at that. There were (as far as we know) very few in the ECP and only Miles had gone to college on their dime. And there was no avenue for a human high school student to take advantage of that. It's only when a squirrel shows up that claims to be a missing classmate that anyone even thinks about the connection. Or the possibilities.

And it is very easy for a high school student to say "Free tuition? Give me a tail!" and another thing to actually have a badger with a magic coin standing in front of you, to be sure.

But you offer that to someone like me, middle aged and some health problems? I'd have to think about it. Since my kids are still teens, I'd likely say no for now, but five years from now with them out of the house, and my medical issues possibly worse? I might risk being a donkey that could talk or a mouse for a few more healthy years.
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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by Amazee Dayzee »

Is it me or do they give the kids in school nowadays smaller and smaller portions for lunch? Marion is small so that plate of macaroni should be a bit more larger than him.
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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by NHWestoN »

D-Rock wrote:There was a snake in the first zoo arc, and the roos mentioned Cathy from the reptile house, who was a viper, and Fluffy the alligator.
...and some fella had a snake wrapped around his arm at Miles' party. Seemed like a pretty friendly critter (smiling and all that).

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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by Amazee Dayzee »

Yeah but at least from what it has been seen so far, reptiles aren't really sentient and just will eat whatever they can corner that is smaller than them.
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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by Silly Zealot »

I wonder if someone got offended by that middle panel.

Not that it doesn't tell the truth.
D-Rock wrote:[I mean, yeah, it's great until you have to potentially deal with the fact that you may come across at least four different animals that could make a meal of you without a second thought on the first day.
As a man, I already am liable to encounter an animal that would try to kill without a second thought. Granted, there are way less of them, but that there are, there are.
Argent wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:I mean think of the employment opportunities for Tigers, Lions, and Bears.
Is that a Herd Thinners reference?
Tigers, lions and bears, oh my!
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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by anhedral »

Argent wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:I mean think of the employment opportunities for Tigers, Lions, and Bears.
Is that a Herd Thinners reference?
Wizard of Oz, I think.

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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by NHWestoN »

anhedral wrote:
Argent wrote:
fenrirblack wrote:I mean think of the employment opportunities for Tigers, Lions, and Bears.
Is that a Herd Thinners reference?
Wizard of Oz, I think.
Yup. "Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my! Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!...." Doesn't mean some variant of the verse didn't pop up elsewhere. ("Gale and Tiger and Bruno, oh my..... ;) .)

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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by Welsh Halfwit »

NHWestoN wrote:Yup. "Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my! Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!...." Doesn't mean some variant of the verse didn't pop up elsewhere. ("Gale and Tiger and Bruno, oh my..... ;) .)
Funniest I recall is in an issue of 'Young Justice' where the team's fighting the Circus of Crime.
Robin- Watch out! They've released Lions!
Wonder Girl - and Tigers! And Bears!
Secret - Oh, my!
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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by Argent »

Yes, yes, the Oz reference is obvious. Kevin and Kell less so.
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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by DocFlareon »

Amazee Dayzee wrote:Yeah but at least from what it has been seen so far, reptiles aren't really sentient and just will eat whatever they can corner that is smaller than them.
Incorrect. All vertebrates that reproduce via amniotic eggs or mammal-style pregnancies are sapient in the Housepets! setting. That includes reptiles, birds, and mammals; but excludes fish and amphibians like frogs/toads and salamanders.

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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by NHWestoN »

DocFlareon wrote:
Amazee Dayzee wrote:Yeah but at least from what it has been seen so far, reptiles aren't really sentient and just will eat whatever they can corner that is smaller than them.
Incorrect. All vertebrates that reproduce via amniotic eggs or mammal-style pregnancies are sapient in the Housepets! setting. That includes reptiles, birds, and mammals; but excludes fish and amphibians like frogs/toads and salamanders.
… and Peanut did have a conversation with the snake at the reptile house, a snake who tricked him into the cage... ;)
(Small aside - like your icon, Doc.)

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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by DocFlareon »

NHWestoN wrote:
DocFlareon wrote:
Amazee Dayzee wrote:Yeah but at least from what it has been seen so far, reptiles aren't really sentient and just will eat whatever they can corner that is smaller than them.
Incorrect. All vertebrates that reproduce via amniotic eggs or mammal-style pregnancies are sapient in the Housepets! setting. That includes reptiles, birds, and mammals; but excludes fish and amphibians like frogs/toads and salamanders.
… and Peanut did have a conversation with the snake at the reptile house, a snake who tricked him into the cage... ;)
(Small aside - like your icon, Doc.)
Indeed. The end result of said conversation leads me to believe that at least some snakes have skills in casting magic(k)al spells.

PS:The icon is of my avatar in a pokemon setting created by a mutual friend of myself and Rick. My avatar is a flareon who had a human great-grandparent, making him one eighth human. That bit of human ancestry allows him to stand and walk upright on his hind legs with the help of a cane.

PPS: Said avatar icon was drawn by Rick, BTW.

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Re: 2019/09/25 - Lunch Break

Post by NHWestoN »

Glad I asked! ;)

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