2014/11/05 - All There In Black And White

[gamepopper]

Hi new character, hitting on Zach the moment you meet him...

Despite what others are posting, I'm just wondering how Cory was able to trade a whole load of food for a gold ring in the woods, and who to?

Gender shouldn't matter if this is a possible ship or not, but now that Jessica is also a possible ship to Zach, it means we now have a BATTLESHIP! *bricked*

[Dissension]

*Takes a deep breath* At the risk of holding this thread hostage to the subject of the skunk's gender/Roo's relationship...this really will likely be the last best chance to post some thoughts on the matter.

*Gathers thoughts*

Let me first note that one look at some of the fics on my tablet would disabuse anybody of the notion that I'm closed to fics involving characters in unconventional relationships. And yes, though I'm only interested in plot-centric works, as I'm usually somewhat out of the, eh, core demographic, some fast scanning over certain parts is usually involved.... :roll: Having said that - if you'll indulge me a moment, let me use the analogy of another work to make my point: Stephen King's 'The Stand'.

'The Stand' is considered by many fans to be King's greatest work. As with most of his work, it is at least in part a work of horror, though that term hardly does the work justice. And not surprisingly, there are graphic moments, some 'explicit' moments, and no shortage of obscenities. And one might rightly expect King to be as liberal( or not ) as any other author. Yet for all that - no offense to the authors of certain fanfics, and fully acknowledging that the author himself may disagree - 'alternative' relationships among the characters in the universe of that work, and just that work, would not work. Why? Because both the tone and themes of the story are strongly Abrahamic; More specific than that, while the work is never theological, the core of the core of the 'heroes', Mother Abigail, very much is. Her pride, over which she worries for much of the novel, eventually gives the enemy a temporary, costly opening. Later four men, men all, are sent out by her - carrying nothing but the clothes on their backs - to confront the baddie. There's also a strong scent of almost Calvinist( Macbethian? ) 'double pre-destination' in the 'sifting' of the good and evil among the survivors of the plague. Though not King's other works, perhaps not even the larger 'Dark Tower' universe to which it belongs, the work itself is, very consciously, 'traditionalist' in it's framework. A relationship between two men( or women ) within the universe would go down - to me - like a dropped note at a piano concert.

What on earth does this have to do with Housepets!, and how I'd choose to view the relationship of a certain pair of 'roos?

Well, because in a different way, I feel much the same about this comic! Think about the 'anti-cat/anti 'cat lover'' sentiment of some characters in the comic; Is it a particularly virulent form of the whole 'boys vs. girls' phase many children go through? A metaphor for racism? Or hmophobia? Heck - sometimes it seems to stand in for furry bashing! Point being, each perspective on the the theme works and, most importantly, even the most 'childish' one is not only equally valid, but has it's own, cutesy appeal that stands on it's own. Think of the many, er, questions, that Joey and Squeak's relationship calls to mind( or better yet, depending on your spin - don't. :P ) Or on that subject, though too lazy to find the link to the strip, remember when Squeak showed one her friends what she saw in cats? Think about that one for a moment. And yet in each case, insoluably, the strips and/or themes work just as well, and as deeply, in nothing more than the most quote-unquote 'family friendly' light. Bf/gf are who the characters 'snuggle with'. Exactly when a relationship does/does not involve moving beyond 'snuggling', or whether that snuggling always comes with the intention to eventually go further 'if things work out', is left carefully vague.( And we're back to Joey and Squeak! ). And so on.

My point is that to me, this is a large part of the Housepets! magic; that it not only dances around but with these things so deftly, with such a lightness of foot, that it invites the reader to look at them through any number of lenses, without penalty, because 'Housepets!, the (pg) comic' is still just so much fun in it's own right.

So -- yeah...I'll be choosing to picture a couple of 'roos who are just much with the cuddling( awhhh! ) 'cause to me( caveat emptor, mileage will vary, as always ), straight 'outing' a pair of characters just like that clashes with this comic. For me. *Really hopes he didn't upset/offend anyone/made a lick of sense* *meep*

And for the record -- if that skunk's a male - straight or otherwise - I'll eat my shirt( with ketchup, thank you! )!



Joel

Your position presupposes homosexuality is inherently less appropriate than heterosexuality. We do not believe this is the case. Just as in our world, the Housepets! universe has people who aren't straight. This includes animals. Bruce and Roosevelt are, indeed, a romantic couple. A pair of gay police dogs attended King's wedding. To deny things the author's established does not invalidate them.

[gamepopper]

Your position presupposes homosexuality is inherently less appropriate than heterosexuality. We do not believe this is the case. Just as in our world, the Housepets! universe has people who aren't straight. This includes animals. Bruce and Roosevelt are, indeed, a romantic couple. A pair of gay police dogs attended King's wedding. To deny things the author's established does not invalidate them.

I know about Bruce and Roosevelt but I didn't notice the police couple from the wedding. (and I'm gonna guess it's the pair of dogs holding hands?)

[Hlaoroo]

AAANYWAAAY...

Back to the topic at hand...

Wow you have a better monitor than I do... Even in extreme close up the best I can make out is Cory's yellow eye in the last panel.

Try the second panel - the first Cory appears in. You can see his eyes pretty clearly there.

And regarding the alt text, I have often heard people complaining about ferrets being stinky. I think the main problem is that it's only skunks that tend to spray. I've never smelled skunk before though and I've always been curious to know if it's really as bad as people make out given that I don't find ferret smell too bad.

And you know what I just realised? Cory knows what he wants - food - and he's putting his ring on it figuratively speaking.

[ArcWolf]

And for the record -- if that skunk's a male - straight or otherwise - I'll eat my shirt( with ketchup, thank you! )!



Joel

Hunt's or Heinz?

[WhoElseButQuagmire]

AAANYWAAAY...

Back to the topic at hand...

Wow you have a better monitor than I do... Even in extreme close up the best I can make out is Cory's yellow eye in the last panel.

Try the second panel - the first Cory appears in. You can see his eyes pretty clearly there.

Ah, yes now I see it...there ARE five or six pixels of green there. Wonder if I saw that unconsciously when I made the wild guess.

And regarding the alt text, I have often heard people complaining about ferrets being stinky. I think the main problem is that it's only skunks that tend to spray. I've never smelled skunk before though and I've always been curious to know if it's really as bad as people make out given that I don't find ferret smell too bad.

I have always held skunks with a great respect. As far as I know they are the only species to only attack when provoked, give plenty of warning to their opponiant by scratching and hopping up and down with their front paws, and when forced to defend themselves they do it by non lethal methods. I admire them for that.

[IdleCurator]

I have always held skunks with a great respect. As far as I know they are the only species to only attack when provoked, give plenty of warning to their opponiant by scratching and hopping up and down with their front paws, and when forced to defend themselves they do it by non lethal methods. I admire them for that.

I agree with your stance on skunks, the ability to avoid predators without an epic death match would seriously benefit the species survival.

[ArcWolf]

AAANYWAAAY...


And regarding the alt text, I have often heard people complaining about ferrets being stinky. I think the main problem is that it's only skunks that tend to spray. I've never smelled skunk before though and I've always been curious to know if it's really as bad as people make out given that I don't find ferret smell too bad.

A friend of mine got sprayed thinking it was a stray cat.

It took him a couple of days of intense washing to get the stench out.

Fun fact; many of the compounds in skunk speay contains sulfur.
Sulfur rate stinks.

[Argent]

Something tells me that ring wasn't exactly "traded" for.

I smell a Violin Scam being set up.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ViolinScam

But Zach doesn't seem the type to fall for something like that.

[Douglas Collier]

Wild guess from out in left field...this is Pete and Dragon's mortal form, accounting for the combination of male and femaleness ( and I can very easily hear in my mind's ear Dragon's half calling Zach 'sugarbun'.)

I had a suspicion that Cory might be one of them, but the combination eyes threw me. The possibility that it could be both of them makes infinitely more sense. A bit weird, but it makes sense.

[Karl]

Mister Furret, you're incredible!

[Argent]

Also, I suspect that Cilantro is an obvious alias.

[Argent]

And regarding the alt text, I have often heard people complaining about ferrets being stinky. I think the main problem is that it's only skunks that tend to spray. I've never smelled skunk before though and I've always been curious to know if it's really as bad as people make out given that I don't find ferret smell too bad.

I find ferret quite pleasant.

Skunk is kind of nice in small doses too. If you want to see what large doses are like, take a whiff of butyl mercaptan some time. you'll be sorry.

[Edit: Sorry for the double post, but Quagmire snuck in and kept me from deleting and merging this one.]

[WhoElseButQuagmire]

Also, I suspect that Cilantro is an obvious alias.

Or Cilantro is the name Peanut couldn't pronounce when everyone started calling him Pete, and Cory is Dragon's true name?

[Bucky-Roo]

Did....anyone notice his eyes are green in one eye and yellow in the other?
*breathes really fast*

[WhoElseButQuagmire]

Did....anyone notice his eyes are green in one eye and yellow in the other?
*breathes really fast*

Hlaoroo did.

[Douglas Collier]

You know, if Cory is a combination of both Pete and Dragon, the black and white could represent Yin and Yang.

[WhoElseButQuagmire]

You know, if Cory is a combination of both Pete and Dragon, the black and white could represent Yin and Yang.

Good point.

[Douglas Collier]

Or they could probably take the ring to Pit. He'd probably buy it on the spot, full price, with little convincing.

[Howellfan]

Your position presupposes homosexuality is inherently less appropriate than heterosexuality

In what sense?

My comment was certainly neutral to it's prima facto appropriateness. As regards literature in general -- again, see what's on my tablet.

If you mean that I was saying that as I felt such a relationship would not work in the universe of The Stand, so do I feel the same about the Housepets! universe; Well, that's not what I'm saying - quite.

*Thinks* It's not so much that it's a pg comic - perhaps my thing goes to a question raised by a premise built into the comic itself: exactly how human are our furry denizens?

They're like children - except when 'ferral' or doing un-childlike things like getting married. Which isn't unusual in some countries, apparently - including 'arranged' marriage, though exactly what the 'legal' significance surrounding that arc was remains a bit fuzzy to me - but evidently over here are something that, in Bailey's words, ' nobody really takes seriously'. Animals are 'managed', or pets, or working animals - except when certain animals from certain countries are granted legal status( honorary? ).

The Housepets! universe has always whistled past the question of why it's a human's world if everybody else is so smart and the moral implications thereof. To what extent should we really be prepared to have them share our relationship with eros? Indeed, given the conceits of the universe, the seperations of status and relationships, could an argument not be made for the desirability of at least some minimum difference in nature of this, if nothing else? Otherwis, aren't we saying that the animals in the comic behave like( anthromorphized versions of ) their counterparts, except in this one area - where they all relate like humans?

If so, one could of course go in some very 'adult' directions, just as with the mass of adult supernatural fluff available eith a quick google search( and for similar reasons ) and far out of keeping with the tone of Housepets.

The other direction would be traditional, soft-focus, and allusive-- *snaps fingers* That's it! That's what it is that bugs me!

The cat-hating Good Ol' Dogs club, Joey and Squeak( If you really must. ) - these may allude to possible human issues, but they're deffinately 'animal matters', with any number of possible comparisons to human situations. King's arc/relationship with Bailey worked, appropriately enough, to six of one, half a dozen of the other. Real world animals procreate( obviously? ), some( Bonobos, Dolphins for example )seem to do it for pleasure first. Humanizing those relationships is easy. Humanizing the 'roos implied relationship from our own analogs is difficult. Such behavior is usually done as dominance displays, rarely - and ineffectually - as an expression of sexual frustration in the absence of any females, and even when apparently engaged in for pleasure( dolphins, bonobos ) never includes the 'central act'. A 'committed same-sex partnership' is a 'specifically' human construct( presumably none of Housepets! cast swing 'like bobnobos' - possibly excepting Keene ) plucked from our human politic and planted into the strip.

To deny things the author's established does not invalidate them.

Of course it doesn't. Still, as written above, I have my own thoughts on the matter In. This. Comic., so am motivated to see it as less 'consumated' than say, King and Bailey

Again, Mileage May Vary! These are my reactions to this ( highly awesome! ) comic. One reader's opinion; that's all. And yes' I am also trying hard to picture Squeak and Joey as an 'item' the same way a couple of twelve year olds might be an 'item' cause reasons. Just my four cents. Take 'em for what they're worth.

Enough thead jacking; Getting back on topic -- Yes, as pointed out, it does seem possible that that could be Pete or Dragon, so um, Heinz, just in case!? (Would still bet on Dragon over Pete, hah! )

Hmm - I wonder if Pete intentionally 'forgot' to tell Keene 'The Game' was over? This could be fun.



Joel

[Argent]

Real animals don't read books, write fanfic, run nightclubs, and own multi-billion-dollar multinational corporations either.

[ArcWolf]

Cilantro does have a green eye and an yellow eye;

the same as Pete and Dragon.


[SPECULATION]

Cilantro could be the mortal manifestation of the two.

But let's stop.

[deepskycyan]

But let's stop.

Good call.
For Pete's sake, people. Rick ended the whole cosmic thing so you guys would move away from this (timeless?) topic.

As for the strip, I'm not liking Cory already.
Something something personal space.

[Perfesser_Bear]

Oh Captan, Mercaptan, rise up and fear the smells...

I smell a skunk, and it doesn't smell like Cilantro (the herb) or Coriander (the spice). Argent nailed it; it's a scam, a confidence scheme, pure and simple. It's the Lost and Found Ring con (sometimes a wallet full of 'cash'), but in my part of the U.S., it's usually a winning lottery ticket that the con can't claim for one reason or another (he has a criminal record, he's got warrants, whatever) and asks the 'mark' to put up a certain percentage of the 'winnings' as collateral for collecting the whole pot. And a domestic bunny might be the perfect mark.

As for why "Cory" is so familiar with Zach, well, that's what con men do. It's supposed to put the mark at ease; confidence, get it? Creepy, huh?

[Argent]

If it's the appraisal variant they're trying to con the mark into buying it for more than it's worth, while thinking he's cheating the con man out of a deal... and I think Zach's too much of a straight shooter to try and cheat Cilantro.

It'd work better with Bino.

If they tried it on Max they'd end up getting stung back.

Karishad would talk them into trading the ring for magic beans.

[Howellfan]

Lol true that.

But that's the great question at the center of the comic, isn't it? What is the line of demarcation between them and us in this universe?

To give a vivid example: Logic and moral reason would suggest that if thedenizens of Babylon Gardens can have a romantic relationship, with enough full understanding and maturity for 'informed consent', and if they may have such relationships across species, then not one single moral objection stands to be raised to such a relationship between one of them and one of us. Yet I know without asking that such a relationship( King doesn't count - he had to choose one path ) would be WAY out of bounds in the Housepets! universe. The question is, why?

Maybe the question is why I should feel differently about the 'roos in this comic than about, say, King and Bailey. *shrugs* For me, the latter connect quite easily as an emotional extension of the platonic 'd'aaw' of real, snuggly puppies. The 'roos don't. *shrugs again*

I'm starting to get seriously worried that I'm going to end up digging myself into a hole here.



Joel

[MrNeonShot]

Okay, Cory and Zack are now on my favorite characters list alongside Jessica, Peanut, and Joey ^^
If Cory turns out to be a jerk, Imma be sad. He is so cute! x3

[SeanWolf]

I like the design of Cory, especially the hairdo on his head. I think, to me, this is the first time a skunk was in Housepets (unless you count the days when Peanut hasn't taken a bath and is smelly ) and I'm interested in how Rick develops his character.

[Douglas Collier]

I tend to agree with you somewhat, Joel. One gay couple (two if you count the K-9 unit dogs) is quite enough - unless Rick is trying to make it a theme, which I don't think would fit as well with this comic as it would for, say, A&H Club (Rick's more mature comic). Still, it really is up to Rick as to what he puts in his comic.
I just hope he doesn't "jump the shark" - but I have faith that he won't.

On a less serious note, it would be sort of funny if Dragon and Pete were turned into a skunk - I can totally see Kitune having something to do with that.

[dtlux1]

I guess the good thing about this week seeming to never end is longer updates, but that also means more time between updates.

Another time of being on the Second page and not first.

New character, who shall I ship him (her?) with?

How much do you want to bet that the gold ring was stolen. Maybe Zach will know the ring from somewhere.

And for the record -- if that skunk's a male - straight or otherwise - I'll eat my shirt( with ketchup, thank you! )!



Joel

Hunt's or Heinz?

As I am from Pittsburgh, I should say Heinz, but I love the taste of Hunt's.

ALSO! I HAVE A THEORY! What if Cory is Pete, in which case I should ship him (her?) with King. Then Dragon will be the ring, watch Dragon be the golden ring.

But hey, that's just a theory. A GAME THEORY! Thanks for watching.

Wait, that doesn't work here.

But hey, that's just a theory. A HOUSEPETS THEORY! Thanks for reading.

Yep, that works.

Also, a bunch of random crap in this post, I need to stay more on topic. But then again, I am not really known for that. I go off topic while staying on topic. Yes, that works.

[valerio]

I tend to agree with you somewhat, Joel. One gay couple (two if you count the K-9 unit dogs) is quite enough

And just why should be enough?

[Argent]

Save the ketchup for washing out the skunk scent.

[Dissension]

ALSO! I HAVE A THEORY! What if Cory is Pete, in which case I should ship him (her?) with King.

King is both married and not gay. Let's not go overboard, y'all.

[Frank]

I'm thinking this could go the way of Jack and the Beanstalk

If Cory is male, I fear Rick may have just opened up a can of worms.

We already have an official gay couple, the kangaroos, and someone hinted at two K9U secondary characters being gay. Nothing scandalous in a Cory and his funny antics, if he's gay as well.

We can get the percentage of, well, gays (18% IIRC) and compare it against the Housepets population. If we're below, that leaves the possibility open. If we're above, then it just makes it very unlikely, but doesn't discard it entirely. Anybody want to do a headcount?

I have only ever heard plant names as character names for girls, such as Katniss, Primrose, Rose, Lavender, Daisy, Blossom, Ginger, Heather, Iris, Lilly etc.

...something in me really wants to point out all the works you're referencing there. Must resist. Must resist.

Basil?

Depends. Does he live on Baker Street?

okay that's a twist...but..you know...I noticed a pattern:
Jessica was introduced during winter and now Cory, could that be a new tradition?
I wouldn't mind it

King was too, come to think of it.

Think about the 'anti-cat/anti 'cat lover'' sentiment of some characters in the comic; Is it a particularly virulent form of the whole 'boys vs. girls' phase many children go through? A metaphor for racism? Or h.omophobia? Heck - sometimes it seems to stand in for furry bashing!

I... think you might be reading too much into it. Some people just don't like cats. You know, "I'm not a cat person?"

And for the record -- if that skunk's a male - straight or otherwise - I'll eat my shirt( with ketchup, thank you! )!

Hunt's or Heinz?

Home-made, probably. It's the only thing that can save him. Have you seen his shirts?
(Ok, neither have I)

Ok, a lot of quote-reply in this post. But to be fair, i did warn this could happen when we moved over to the forums

[MrBlueSky7]

You know, if Cory is a combination of both Pete and Dragon, the black and white could represent Yin and Yang.

Good point.

Not to mention, they both held hands before they jumped. What if that caused something that placed them in the same body?

[Douglas Collier]

I tend to agree with you somewhat, Joel. One gay couple (two if you count the K-9 unit dogs) is quite enough

And just why should be enough?

We are currently in an age where people are deeply split on the subject of homosexuality. If you have more characters who are gay represented within a general population than are statistically accurate (most studies say 5% or less in America, usually less), then it could be taken that the author is setting an agenda. As it is, having a gay pair or two (the kangaroos and the K-9 couple) represents that figure pretty accurately - more than that is pushing it. I don't feel that family-friendly comics like Housepets! should be used to promote topics that are considered controversial in our day and age (including politics and religion).

That's just my two cents on the matter. I hope I haven't offended anyone (as is often the case when discussing sensitive topics).

[dtlux1]

ALSO! I HAVE A THEORY! What if Cory is Pete, in which case I should ship him (her?) with King.

King is both married and not gay. Let's not go overboard, y'all.

A few years ago, that ship may have worked...

Aww, that's no fun...

But ok, I'll try not to.

[Argent]

I think the point has been thoroughly covered by now.

Moving on, what's Cilantro/Cory[1] up to?

[1] Could the name imply a split personality, is dichromacity a hint as well? Or is it just an obvious alias at work?

[Douglas Collier]

I'm thinking this could go the way of Jack and the Beanstalk

If Cory is male, I fear Rick may have just opened up a can of worms.

We already have an official gay couple, the kangaroos, and someone hinted at two K9U secondary characters being gay. Nothing scandalous in a Cory and his funny antics, if he's gay as well.

We can get the percentage of, well, gays (18% IIRC) and compare it against the Housepets population. If we're below, that leaves the possibility open. If we're above, then it just makes it very unlikely, but doesn't discard it entirely. Anybody want to do a headcount?

Well, I counted about 60 people and animals (not including little ones) at King and Bailey's wedding. If you were to take 18% of that population, you'd have the potential of about 11 of them being gay. I imagine that there are a lot more than 60 residents in Babylon Gardens.
18% is an unusually high percentage - 1) does it include people who haven't come out about their orientation in public? And 2) is representative of the US population or does it encompass the world's population?

[Perfesser_Bear]

(* sigh. *)

I sometimes wonder if Rick doesn't read the Forum, then crumple & toss a script he put together a year or so before, when one of us second-guesses a twist.