What do you think about a Housepets game for Nintendo Wii?

[Ebly]

what are you serious, that is such a silly idea to me.
if anything comes of this you will have all of my respect. all of it.

[zeroslash]

The game doesn't really need to have any sort of attack methods; it could be more like Animal Crossing, where you control an adopted pet you've designed and commune with both characters from the comic and randomly-generated pets. Every now and then, depending on the season, a new arc will begin where you'd need to solve a puzzle of some sort. In the meantime, you can play games with the other pets and earn prizes.

And to keep the action-oriented gamers happy, Pretend sessions in which you, Grape, and Peanut create wacky adventures together.

And this was just off the top of my head. :/

[Aquablast]

The game doesn't really need to have any sort of attack methods; it could be more like Animal Crossing, where you control an adopted pet you've designed and commune with both characters from the comic and randomly-generated pets. Every now and then, depending on the season, a new arc will begin where you'd need to solve a puzzle of some sort. In the meantime, you can play games with the other pets and earn prizes.

And to keep the action-oriented gamers happy, Pretend sessions in which you, Grape, and Peanut create wacky adventures together.

And this was just off the top of my head. :/

That sounds interesting and promising... But it is pretty much like my idea of making a Housepets simulator-- It will probably only appeal to the fans and furries. I don't think living as an anthropomorphic pet or owning an anthropomorphic pet appeals to the general public.

There is a way to get around that though... That is to focus on the "pet" part. Something like: "Owning an intelligent, talking, bipedal dog or cat!" That could work, because owning a pet isn't a foreign concept. Housepets is simply a step higher by having intelligent pets.

But that will certainly be interactive heavy, since I believe the players will expect intelligent pets to do something.

Now, knowing the theme, we can apply the Animal Crossing mechanism again. Dressing up your pet is probably fun... Interaction is possible... There are methods to earn stuff... That sounds pretty good to audiences who like Animal Crossing.

However, Housepets is character-oriented (to me, at least), I think the Animal Crossing mechanism alone won't be enough to bring out the full potential of the Housepets universe. But I am too tired for now, so I will just wait.

[zeroslash]

Well, a good game designer should never simply copy from other franchises (*coughactivisioncough*), so it'll likely be more minigames-oriented. But I understand your concern; most adaptations never go too well, and when they do, they remove some things from the adaptation, usually for good or bad reasons depending on the director. For now, Housepets! is a comic, and so it shall remain unless Rick has something in mind (the radio show does not count at this point in time).

[Aquablast]

... Or until some of us has the ability, money, and the idea to do so.

And of course, I am not thinking about copying or some mere adaptations, I am looking for concepts.

A concept is a theme that can be summarized in one sentence, for example: "Owning/playing as an intelligent, talking, bipedal dog or cat!"

That is what I am seeking.

[Foxstar]

Animal Crossing style could work if you were able to play games and such with the other pets and you yourself weren't one of the characters
but a new pet.

[zeroslash]

... Or until some of us has the ability, money, and the idea to do so.

But even then, Rick would have to give the thumbs-up. I guess a fan game could work, but...

Animal Crossing style could work if you were able to play games and such with the other pets and you yourself weren't one of the characters
but a new pet.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Of course, these concepts are rather simple.

As for the audience, we already have two audiences: Animal Crossing fans and furry fans. Animal Crossing had no real audience at the time of its release, so it's pretty much established one already due to its popularity. As long as it's advertised correctly, it'll probably sell just fine.

... We're just playing around, right?

[Frooxius]

... Or until some of us has the ability, money, and the idea to do so.

Umm... I don't know it it's enough, I don't have anything much to show since I didn't release anything new in about 2-3 years due to some... problems, but this is last game I released, under a development team I worked in before (though unfortunately most members (graphic designers) stopped working in the end and the game isn't finished as it was supposed to be (plus there were some other mistakes during the development), but people still somewhat liked it, it even got into a magazine about computer games and into Internet TV station about games), but I made this 3 years ago, so it's not much recent. I have over a dozen ideas and concepts for new games, but I still didn't get to realizing them I hope it's not too bad, I don't know what do you expect, maybe somebody better or something, maybe it's bad, since it's rather... not the style HP game would have, but of course it's not the only one I made, just the latest released.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd3VM5wKlfw

But I think that Wii's not really a good choice as it makes the audience much smaller, plus they're required to install that Wiibrew, that's not much successful distribution model compared to a PC game for example, where the process is straightforward and basically anyone can play. Not to mention I think it's also bad to start with a bigger game and 3D (why even 3D? I don't know why to force everything to 3D, I think Housepets would do nicely in 2D) as game development is a lot of work and requires cooperation of some people (assuming more people work on that) and if they never had experience with game development, they might get tired/frustrated and leave in the middle of development and whole project collapses and all the work will be for nothing.

That's why I wanted to try before a small, quickly made game, to see it it will work (like, a HP themed game made with help of the community) and if somebody helps me with graphics, but I guess nobody would even entrust days/weeks of his work to me, as I could screw up , well I decided I'll do the graphics myself, now that I tried drawing a little bit and after I finish that, maybe I'll try something bigger (I got some ideas months ago including game involving a lot of hugs between characters ), with HP characters (like Peanut, Grape... that small one is Pridelands game) in C++ with my engine. I think that game can be interesting way to promote the comic, as it's possible to distribute it widely outside the community and push it to various game magazines and if there's a link to the comic in the game... but I don't know, I probably can't do that myself, I would need approval, because if the game would be bad, it would rather repel people, but then I wouldn't even distribute it in the first place I guess I hope I didn't say anything stupid again.

Also, what "but..." about the fan game? Is it bad or something? I don't actually see any other choice...

[zeroslash]

It's not that idea of a fan game, but something due to several experiences regarding fan games. Several of my fan games that were forced to be cancelled were due to the creator disapproving of my ideas. So I'm worried about Rick disapproving himself. Call it paranoia. :/

[Wolf]

Here's a thought. If the idea of a Housepets video game seems bad, then why not concentrate on something from inside the Housepets world, and not the world.

AKA: Lets make a PrideLands game. Rick Griffin can help make sense of the story. Otherwise we'll probably just end up with something like "The Dragon Council who are supposed to be good are actually evil."
Mainly because we know little to nothing about Pridelands other then the fact that Saso is killed for being a awesome character.
"Awesome as charged."

[Frooxius]

Oh sorry, I didn't know you're already planning Pridelands game too, I actually already developed part, but it's still early to stop it, as it's just a little warm-up fan-game (not even with much of a story), but if you're going to make something bigger I won't continue so there are no duplicates, well actually one official with help of Rick Griffin and one stupid primitive one. I thought that the bigger game will have Housepets characters from the main comic, the the Pridelands. Sorry I'm confused now I'll leave it to you then, if you work with Rick Griffin on this officially.

[Wolf]

Oh sorry, I didn't know you're already planning Pridelands game too, I actually already developed part, but it's still early to stop it, as it's just a little warm-up fan-game (not even with much of a story), but if you're going to make something bigger I won't continue so there are no duplicates, well actually one official with help of Rick Griffin and one stupid primitive one. I thought that the bigger game will have Housepets characters from the main comic, the the Pridelands. Sorry I'm confused now I'll leave it to you then, if you work with Rick Griffin on this officially.

Let me say this right now. I have as much chance of making a game as King does dancing the tango with Pete.
I suck at making games. Stories, I can do, but my attempts at games have always died off quickly. (Not to mention my computer is slow as sin. So it would have lots of trouble running a game program.)

I could help write and come up with level ideas. You could design the characters, and with the help of Rick we may make a decent story. (And hopefully get the Nintendo Seal of Quality if we try hard enough. Maybe even make it an arcade game for the Xbox.)

[Frooxius]

What? I thought you're planning game already. Erm, but you can do games even in a slow computer, some IDEs aren't much demanding, in worst case scenario you can use just some syntax highlighting editor (even notepad.exe + compiler is sufficient, although not much comfortable and good)... I mean... these are tasks that even the slowest computer can handle (how do you think they even programmed games in era of 80386? Or before), compiling may take a while but... wait? Game program? What do you mean? What game program? You mean the actual compiled game itself? But I doubt that anybody's going to make some performance hungry 3D game, requiring latest hardware... I think even the game should run fine on slower computers.

Seal of Quality? Sorry... I didn't know you want to make some game and sell boxed and licensed by game-console companies, you want to make some commercial game? Isn't that even thinking too much ahead? I mean, I thought that first there's going to be a simple freeware PC game, which anybody can run and if it will show as good concept, then a better game, maybe for more platforms can be made, but I don't know about selling anything and licensing, since we won't even have some commercial development team in the first place, I thought it's just going to be freeware project, made for fun, like a fanart, I didn't know you wanted to go this far... Sorry if I talk nonsense now... I didn't know... I'll rather be quiet.

[Wolf]

What? I thought you're planning game already. Erm, but you can do games even in a slow computer, some IDEs aren't much demanding, in worst case scenario you can use just some syntax highlighting editor (even notepad.exe + compiler is sufficient, although not much comfortable and good)... I mean... these are tasks that even the slowest computer can handle (how do you think they even programmed games in era of 80386? Or before), compiling may take a while but... wait? Game program? What do you mean? What game program? You mean the actual compiled game itself? But I doubt that anybody's going to make some performance hungry 3D game, requiring latest hardware... I think even the game should run fine on slower computers.

Seal of Quality? Sorry... I didn't know you want to make some game and sell boxed and licensed by game-console companies, you want to make some commercial game? Isn't that even thinking too much ahead? I mean, I thought that first there's going to be a simple freeware PC game, which anybody can run and if it will show as good concept, then a better game, maybe for more platforms can be made, but I don't know about selling anything and licensing, since we won't even have some commercial development team in the first place, I thought it's just going to be freeware project, made for fun, like a fanart, I didn't know you wanted to go this far... Sorry if I talk nonsense now... I didn't know... I'll rather be quiet.

Dude, I put all my jokes in (). That's just how I roll. And yeah, I probably won't be making a game, I'm more of a writer and idea man. Trust me, game developing is not my goal in life.

[Frooxius]

Oh sorry sorry I didn't know you use parentheses to indicate jokes, I thought that you're serious, sorry, don't be mad at me please . Although... I think that game designer has to be also very good idea man and writer, because he actually designs the game, not just writes code according to some project documentation. Not only that it's required to create a story and ideas, but also put them into work, into a game system, that's entertaining, challenging and yet tells the story (assuming you do a game with a story, not casual one), for example, I have dozens of ideas and stories for games, some of them somewhat elaborate, because they basically have some thought... that whole game has some thought, some idea in it, it tries to tell the story and that idea, I like doing that the most, that's why I don't really do fangames (actually I have idea for one, but it has my own more complex noncanon story, which however logically and scientifically (sort of hard sci-fi) explains some things and it's basically a story in its own), since they limit me and I have different, own ideas I want to turn into gameality, but I thought I could make an exception with Housepets, but now I'm confused and don't know... Of course, it's also important to know programming very well, if you want to make the game as much detailed and original as possible. Sorry again that I misunderstood

[Anthroguy101]

I ship flow charts for storyboards.

[Wolf]

Oh sorry sorry I didn't know you use parentheses to indicate jokes, I thought that you're serious, sorry, don't be mad at me please . Although... I think that game designer has to be also very good idea man and writer, because he actually designs the game, not just writes code according to some project documentation. Not only that it's required to create a story and ideas, but also put them into work, into a game system, that's entertaining, challenging and yet tells the story (assuming you do a game with a story, not casual one), for example, I have dozens of ideas and stories for games, some of them somewhat elaborate, because they basically have some thought... that whole game has some thought, some idea in it, it tries to tell the story and that idea, I like doing that the most, that's why I don't really do fangames (actually I have idea for one, but it has my own more complex noncanon story, which however logically and scientifically (sort of hard sci-fi) explains some things and it's basically a story in its own), since they limit me and I have different, own ideas I want to turn into gameality, but I thought I could make an exception with Housepets, but now I'm confused and don't know... Of course, it's also important to know programming very well, if you want to make the game as much detailed and original as possible. Sorry again that I misunderstood

Dude... Don't worry. You're awesome.

[Dubiousity]

In all honesty, I would only play the game if you could use the Gamecube controller.

[valerio]

hmm, I don't know if it is premature to ask for this, but...what about a poll? I see there is a pretty flow of ideas about the kind of game we want. And I guess that we'd hire the whole Insomniac team if we could. Why don't we focus on a kind of game we can work on with specific sets of ideas and suggestions?

[Aquablast]

Okay, since a lot points appeared at once...

First, let's not think too far. Call me overconfident, but I am sure we can convince Rick... Once we actually got something and have a working plan. I am sure Rick is reading this, and I am sure we don't need to tell Rick if something is good or not. Instead, let us first find a good concept before anything else. While stuff like "an Animal Crossing-like game" will give us some idea, that is not a good concept.

Aside from concept, another problem is teamwork. Like Tails said, people are very likely to get frustrated in a team if they don't know what to expect. In fact, it is probably going to be frustrating even if everyone in the team knows what they are doing. One of the main reason is because everyone has his own idea, even the graphic designer! As long as people can't be objective or let go their ideas, it will soon or later turn into a battle of ego.

As for the system, it's easy. Just let the programmer decide it. Have the ability to make games for Wii? Go for it. Can't make anything but in Game Maker? No problem! Every system has it's own strength and weakness, what matters is the capability of doing it. It is impossible to use something you can't you use anyway!

And there should be no problem with duplicates. The best one will simply win, it is that simple. Everyone should aim to be the very best, no exceptions.

Anyway, my last three points are useless if nobody even has a working concept. Let me show some better example:

1. Nintendogs
Concept: Owning a pet dog that won't cause any trouble! (Like dirtying your floor or get sick)
How is the concept good: A lot of people can't own real dogs, due to many problems like perhaps living in apartment, don't have the economy power, or allergies. Nintendogs provides the experience with no drawbacks!
How large is the audience: Anyone who wants a dog without drawback. (A lot of people)

2. Wii Fit
Concept: Getting fit indoor AND have fun doing it!
How is the concept good: A lot of people want to control their fitness, but can't visit fitness centers, make their own plan, or simply have no place to exercise. Wii Fit is a god send to those people! And there is a lot of them!
How large is the audience: Anyone who wants to be fit. (A lot of people)

Note that I picked 2 examples that has sold to everybody, from gamers to non-gamers. That is what we should aim for. Of course there are good games like Starcraft and Left4Dead that sells very well, but there is no point in limiting ourselves in terms of making customers. The very point of business is to make customers anyway.

Now, I will show you my concept:

Housepets Simulator (temporary name)
Concept: Living in Babylon Gardens, as a pet!
How is the concept good: You get to interact, have fun, and have adventure with the pets from the Housepets universe!
How large is the audience: Anyone who wants to interact with the pets from Housepets. (Fans and Furries)

... See the problem with my concept? Yes, I know this isn't very detailed or complete, and my concept has way more problems than that. But it is like 11:30 PM where I live and I am experiencing a drop in my ability to analyze.

For now, my point is everyone should list their ideas in this form first. Analyzes what makes your concept good and the who would want to play that. More analyze = better. So don't hold back.

Ask me any questions, or let me know if anyone disagrees with/find flaws in my points. I am not perfect and let's all learn from each other. I believe there is no way to find truth, but through discussion.

[Frooxius]

Aquablast: Well I have a concept actually for a some time now (over a half a year)... But I need to write everything down first, in a comprehensive form (not bunch of quick notes) and of course, somebody has to made project documentation first, as this is the most important part of every serious development (except for some silly small things, serious things fail badly without proper documentation), I'm for example just finishing documentation for (one of) my experimental processor architecture and only then I start actually writing assembler, disassembler, simulator and other tools for it and after testing concept, building the circuit itself, but that's a little bit irrelevant, except for the importance of design stage (it's the same with all computing stuff... for example you can't do any serious IS without proper ERD (in fact, I made ERD even for small IS with just 3 or 4 entities)).

Yes, most of team members usually have ideas to and that's actually a good thing, because you then do something called brainstorming. Every idea is valuable, even if it's stupid, it can lead to actually a good idea and I know that it really does good enough from experience. Some of people had quite stupid ideas, but in fact, they actually lead to much more better ones, that were implemented into the game concept, so they were not really stupid after all. It's however important to have one person, who will manage everything about this and make sure, that all ideas and concepts are turned into coherent way, that actually makes the game better, which often means, that the idea is not used exactly how somebody presents it, but it's altered by the project leader to fit the project concept and so it works with others well too. When I developed games before, we talked a lot about ideas, usually some member gave me his ideas (often also the music composer, who was really great, unfortunately I can't contact him now ) and then discussed it with him thoroughly and shaped it into something, that actually fitted the game and we both were satisfied.

It's however important to know, that some idea often needs to be shaped and changed from the original form, but that's nothing bad, that's normal. I myself often revise and think trough various concepts a lot, some may however expect, that their idea will be used in the form they first presented it and if it's changed (and flaws are pointed out), it actually means that their idea was stupid and that they shoulnt've even said it... no, ideas are often like... seeds. The original idea is just a seed, but then it changes and it grows into a beautiful flower. The idea grows and develops and changes so it fits other ideas and overall concept very well.

Also it's very important to know, that most of ideas must be presented even before any coding/gfx/sfx works starts. It's really very very important as adding new ideas in the middle of development is BAD. VERY BAD and no good game designer or programmer in general (if you know software development cycle and you have been trough some, you know what I mean) would ever do it. Simply, if new ideas and features come during the development, it's really important to just say no, because they can derail whole project and make the code a mess. New ideas are usually gathered and implemented in the next version, which starts whole project cycle again. So as I said, it's important for someone to make coherent documentation first using his own and other people's ideas.

Hmm... sorry, I don't want to offend you, but about the game system, you're very wrong. It's not easy at all and the choice should NEVER be taken so lightly. You can't choose whatever you like, you need to choose something adequate for the project you'll be working on as you'll basically build it upon the tools and design you use and some tools are just inadequate for some projects, it may not seem as such at the start of the development, but later it pays back very badly and you'll probably want to rip your hair out, for not paying more attention to selection of tools and libraries and concepts you wanted to use, believe me, I have been though this years ago to know it very well unfortunately. Actually proper selection is often very hard, because you have to plan ahead a lot and compare features and properties with regard to your plans, because when you start programming, there's not easy way to turn back and wrong choice at the start may cost whole team a lot of energy, work, time and actually decrease quality of the whole project. Of course, the capability to do something is important, but it doesn't mean you can choose lightly whatever you want, I'm not sure what experience you have, but I already burned myself (figuratively speaking this time, TigerTobee...) before. Not to mention, once you choose some tools... well in this case it would be possible for more programmers to work on it (as not every set of tools even does support team work much), because of different skills/knowledge. I myself can learn new stuff pretty quickly if needed (to me, it's oftne the same, language is just a tool, you need programmer thinking and enough insight, then everything will seem easy to you and you learn quickly), but I'm not sure about everyone and if some easy (but not much powerful) way would be used... I think it would just limit everyone else.
EDIT: For analogy with choosing right tool vs ability to make something: you might be able to build a whole full-sized Buckingham palace from toothpicks, but that still doesn't mean that it's a good tool/material to use.

I'm not sure about these concepts, they're very vague and I think that you could actually make dozens of very different games, fitting the description you wrote. It's nothing specific, I have no idea what specific to imagine under "Living in Babylon Gardens, as a pet", how's that even going to work? Living and doing what? How to make it fun? How to make it challenging? How to ensure high replaybility?

Also, I don't know why would it be limited just to fans and furries. It doesn't make sense. I think anyone can actually play such game, without knowledge of the comic, or being fun of everything in particular. Do you have to be a hedgehog breeder and professional sprinter to be interested in Sonic the Hedgehog? Do you have to be a scientist working in research and knowing stuff about space-time to play Portal? Do you have to be interested in astronomy, astrology and cosmology to play Space invaders? I'm exaggerating a little, but I'm sure you get my point. I don't see a single reason why the audience would be limited to fans and furries, why would non-HP fans and non-furries (there are tons of games with animal characters and you don't have to be a furry to be interested in them) not be able/want to play this game? For them, these are just characters and if anything, they'll just become interested in the comic. Even if not, I don't see why would the game be non-interesting to other people, it's the gameplay what's important to players, not the background.

Sorry if I offended you or something, I didn't want to, I just said what I think and know from experience and studies Plus I'm already working on some simple small game I started about a year ago and didn't work on (I didn't work almost at anything , not just this, because I'm often quite unable to do so) until lately. I'll do it all by myself... I don't know, how are some really ambitious projects going to work, when I can't get help even with a little one, but that's probably just me as they don't want me to screw up their work

[Aquablast]

Of course I am not offended! In fact, input and feedback like this is what I need! I will never improve if I never accept anything from the others!

However, I must apologize as well. I hope I didn't sound too forceful or arrogant, I didn't mean to sound like that... >_>


(The below are a bit messy and the points are scattered everywhere, sorry for that.)


As for the game system, I actually mean it is easy to decide who will decide the game system. There should be no debate that the programmer should decide the game system... For our case, at least. The problem with non-programmers like me is that most of us probably don't know about the fine details of the game system. Which tools to use and which feature is better is pretty much beyond me.

Now, the main point about concept is to trigger your imagination, that's why it is so vague. In my opinion, concept is the true seed, game mechanism is the soil, and the ideas are the fertilizer, water, and sunlight. Concept will only determine the what kind of flower (game) it is, not exactly how big or healthy the flower will be.

I believe this is where people disagree with me.

When it comes to the type of the game, the views split into 2:
- Genre centric
- Theme centric

If someone asks: "What kind of game is Starcraft 2?" A genre centric person will say: "It is a RTS game!" A theme centric on the other hand will answer: "It is about war between human and aliens!" (Or something like that, I haven't played SC2 yet.)

When I said concept will determine the type of game, I am speaking in terms of theme centric. Since I believe the theme is what triggers a player's imagination, genre is to make the imagination even more realistic.

Moving onto audience, it is true that anyone can play any game. A good game is supposed to interest everyone. But the question is: would they go out of their way just to play this game?

A FPS fanatic or someone who likes shooting zombies will definitely go and buy L4D. Now, what about someone who isn't interested in FPS or shooting zombies? Would they still go and buy L4D? Sure, they might buy it and perhaps like it, but that's relaying on chances. And they will most likely never try it in the first place.

The point is the drive of wanting to play a game... Or wanting to be the role of the game's main character. People who plays L4D may or may not be a professional shooter, but they definitely are interested in shooting or playing with their friends.

Now, how many people want to interact with a talking animal character so much that they will go out of their way just to play it? That's the point. (Of course, there are games that repels people... But that is another point.)


Back to the topic of concept. Like I said, the purpose of the concept is to trigger imagination and to identify the ultimate goal of the game. How to make a game that will achieve the said goal is the second step.

Your questions works well as a guideline for the second step:

Game mechanism: A dialog-based Housepets simulator with a lot of options and tons of outcome accompanied with graphic.
Living and doing what: This is a bit too specific, let's save this for the third step.
How is it fun: By living with the Housepets cast, ever thought of living with Peanut?
How is it challenging: No challenge intended.
How is it replayable: By having 20+ characters (the Housepets cast) to interact with.

Note that this is also the time where the ideas start branching, so feel free to give your ideas. (I mean everyone, not only Tails)

[Anthroguy101]

This probably isn't going to be a "wide release" game, is it (or is it)?
My big concern is how people are going to receive it when its done.

[Aquablast]

This probably isn't going to be a "wide release" game, is it (or is it)?
My big concern is how people are going to receive it when its done.

I think we will just post it on the forums... I don't think we are going to do anything serious yet, like selling the game.

[Anthroguy101]

This probably isn't going to be a "wide release" game, is it (or is it)?
My big concern is how people are going to receive it when its done.

I think we will just post it on the forums... I don't think we are going to do anything serious yet, like selling the game.

That hardly promotes the comic in any way, shape, or form. I thought that was our goal here.

[Dissension]

That objective is not actually stated anywhere in the originating post. Why not let this get further along before deciding on a broader release?

[Aquablast]

This probably isn't going to be a "wide release" game, is it (or is it)?
My big concern is how people are going to receive it when its done.

I think we will just post it on the forums... I don't think we are going to do anything serious yet, like selling the game.

That hardly promotes the comic in any way, shape, or form. I thought that was our goal here.

Nope, not mine. My goal is actually bring in profit... But I see promoting comic as something serious too, we will want to make sure it is good quality before distributing it to the masses, right? (Or if we make a game... At all...)

As for distributing... We can try to post it at every site that accepts free games. With Housepets in the title and some address or such, it should work nicely for the purpose of promoting the comic.

[Frooxius]

Aquablast: Sorry, I didn't probably express myself clearly, my fault

What I meant, that it's hard to choose the correct system for the programmer. The person who does that game system, it's hard choice for that person I mean. I don't know how to say it so it's clearer... Because I often think even weeks, what exactly I'll use and how exactly will the project be programmer. This is one of the most important stages in software development, so it's anything but easy, even for the people who make it (why would even non-programmer decide it? It doesn't make any sense).

Yes... concept has to trigger some imagination, but sorry to say that, I don't want to sound offense, but what you wrote is even too vague to be even considered a concept, because... basically there can be hundreds of concept that fit that vague description, so it doesn't really give much direction.

I don't really know how are FPS fanatics and similar relevant, since they're the minority, and were not interested in that, as most of the general public is not a minority and doesn't strictly stick to one genre. Not to mention, you're not even completely right, because even fanatics may play such game, that is not their favorite genre, because when I released one logical (with artificial intelligence) game several years ago (4-5 I think), I got some comments even from one, who was known as FPS fanatic and yet it managed him to glue him to the screen for at least 2 hours (well, maybe more, that's what he wrote 2 hours after release). Most people don't really pick just one genre, so I don't see how's mentioning some minority of genre-fanatic players even relevant/important. Many players would play such game even if they're not particularly interested in anthro and furry stuff, it's just a game for them and if you make a good gameplay, then it's not really a problem.

Also... just dialogs? Do you want to make some click and point? But you said no challenge so just talking with characters? Sorry, but such games get boring pretty fast. Each game HAS to have some challenge, otherwise they fall into boring stereotype very fast and even somewhat challenging games have trouble with falling into stereotype, so... no challenge == no drive for the player to play more. It's simple as that. It doesn't matter what kind of challenge it is, there simply has to be something that will force the player to play and except some reward for his efforts and such. Not to mention dialogs will be predefined, actually interesting would be writing an AI that would create dialogs for characters, but that's not really much possible and bunch of predefine dialogs and behaviors with no challenge isn't really even a game.

For example... I may say "a game where you have to shoot aliens" and call it a concept, but in fact, it's very very vague, because there are already many games that fit this... MDK/MDK2, Space Invaders, Contra (HardCorps) and tons more, each being completely different.

To show you how concept (the original idea) usually looks like, I think I can show you some stuff on one of the projects I'm working on now, called attoWPU (it's not a game, but I think it's sufficient for demonstration). This is quite old original idea/thought/concept, that I wrote when I got the idea, but notice that it's not vague like saying "new unusual processor architecture", but it's actually something I can build upon more ideas
http://data.solirax.org/microassembly_processor.html
Now I'm working on the documentation (so it's draft, it's not finished completely yet) and you can see, that I built upon this idea, many things are added and changed, it's more more detailed and that's because I had solid concept to build upon, not just some vague unclear statement.
http://data.solirax.org/attoWPUspec_alpha.pdf

Actually I have some idea (concept) for a HP game, but it's bigger so I have to write it down... and I don't even know if there's really point in doing that... But from my experience, when a concept in a development team is presented and I really mean just a concept, just an idea, it's usually about 1-2 A4 pages filled with text. It's not that there's some given norm for the length of a concept, it's just that it usually gets around such size even without you realizing it, the important thing is really to have some solid concept, otherwise you won't get much far and it will reflect in the project quality. Simply, there's no space for vagueness. If you want to do something, you must have solid idea what it's going to be, otherwise you won't have much success.

As for the release, I doubt that we're going to sell it... do you think we can even assemble a development team that will work on it regularly, several hours a day and provide a support and other things necessary when doing it commercial? Not to mention HP characters are owned by Rick, so that's problem too... Not to mention, it actually narrows the audience a lot, because people would have to be interested in the theme a little bit more to buy a game (when they have to pay for it, they're going to think more about it, whether or not it's even worth the money, when it's free, they care much less).

My idea even a year ago, when I started work (well, it was halted because of... my problems... for many months... plus they're not really gone so I don't know...) is, that it would be freeware, since that's quite easy to promote (and thus promote the comic this way), I did it before with several games. You don't even have to push it to many freegame servers, just some good places and then it starts spreading itself as they start writing reviews about it, I know even that at least one of my previous games (the latest one) got into a printed game magazine (they asked me if they can include it on the DVD) and to a internet TV about games. Actually, servers started writing about some of my games even before they were even released and that's important. If you start developing something interesting and promising, you can catch the interest of media and audience and they'll know about the game long time even before it's released and believe me, many of them, including some servers who write about free games will actually wait for the game to be released to write a review about it.

Of course, usually one person does this information spreading, because you have to keep it clear, who they have to ask for more information if they need to or if they need some special permission and such (that's why they asked me before for permission for DVD inclusion, as I was main developer and also project organizer).

I hope I didn't confuse anything as I did before, sorry for not explaining it clearly, also I hope it doesn't sound offensive, don't get mad at me if it does please, I didn't mean it that way

[Aquablast]

I think we misunderstood each other a bit...

I get your point about the importance and difficulty of choosing game system. Some other people were wondering about the game system just now, and I am just saying that there is no point for non-programmers to worry about it (at this stage).

I think we have different definition for the word: "Concept". My concept is not meant to be used yet, it is more for gathering ideas. The "hundreds of concept that fit that vague description" is exactly what I am trying to capture. (But no one else commented on that, my concept is either VERY BAD or it was lost in the sea of text...)

As for the audience, FPS fanatics was a bad example... That was my fault, sorry! But I believe you already understood the difference of "user" and "customer". I am just thinking in terms of getting a customer, not just a user.

Not to mention, it actually narrows the audience a lot, because people would have to be interested in the theme a little bit more to buy a game (when they have to pay for it, they're going to think more about it, whether or not it's even worth the money, when it's free, they care much less).

That is what I mean, and that is the reason why I am saying a good gameplay may not be enough.

You must be wondering why I am talking about getting a customer when I am not even trying to sell anything yet.

In my opinion, a game that can get a customer is better than a game that can't get a customer. I am using this as a measurement of quality, a good quality game should be able to make customers. I am aiming to make such a game... Even if it is free.

About the challenge, I believe this is the part where we will never agree. To me, the imagination of the player == the drive that keep the player playing. Challenge may take part in that, but I believe good content that ignites the imagination of the players is what really drives a player.

Besides my concept isn't completely devoid of challenge, I am just not going to focus on making it challenging. My base concept is to live with the Housepets cast, which means interacting (talking) with the other pets will take a huge part of the game. And dealing with other people isn't exactly without challenge, is it?

I know about Rick owning the characters. I plan to be a lawyer, so I at least know the concept of ownership. The goal of making a game is to make profit (even if we are not selling it just yet), but my personal motivation is to prove and develop my abilities in game designing. To make a game that can generate profit is my real goal here. The profit itself can go straight to Rick for all I care. A proven skill will net me way more profit than that... ... However, that is an only an if, let's not think about that for now.

I hope I didn't sound confusing or offend you too! I am actually happier to hear stuff from people than no respond!

(Our wall of text, however, is perhaps driving away the people though...)

[p33wii]

I can't see any story relating to the Housepets universe actually being playable.

I concur.

[Kyderra]

I can't see any story relating to the Housepets universe actually being playable.

I concur.

Tarot taking the cast to various locations in there imagination
Kinda like kingdom hearts and psychonaughts

[GameCobra]

I can't see any story relating to the Housepets universe actually being playable.

I concur.

Tarot taking the cast to various locations in there imagination
Kinda like kingdom hearts and psychonaughts

Going to see Tarot and Sabrina would have that bonus the way i look at it.

You know, if you're thinking of a story, it's not that hard, really. you can't in my opinion add more story-content unless Rick allowed us, but the extent of the story would more than likely be a "extreme Imaginate" arc done in the context of the game.

Ex:
>Peanut is bored
>Peanut, quite obviously, gets Grape involved. (GRAAAAAAAAAAPE!)
>the game however either attracts more pets that were obviously bored too and saw this as a way to pass time or somehow worked into the ideas of the other pets, who willing participate.
>Hilarity ensues
>The game ends and we realize this was all just part of Peanut's dream... or is it?!?
>Bonus Stage unlocked! It turns out even the gods themselves are playing.
As for a standard idea of the levels per se, you could use the neighbourhood houses as the setting for most of the stages. think of it like a Imaginate arc being done repeatedly, but not limited to the extent of just the Sandwich household. one good example is Maxwell and Bino's house who apparantly don't clean up after themselves much, or Tarot and Sabrina's house which is cushy and tidy.

[Aquablast]

You know, if you're thinking of a story, it's not that hard, really. you can't in my opinion add more story-content unless Rick allowed us, but the extent of the story would more than likely be a "extreme Imaginate" arc done in the context of the game.

Or alternatively, we call it a fan game and treat it as non-canon!

[GameCobra]

Man, what would i give to find that RPG maker right now <3

[Frooxius]

Aquablast: Ok, but don't say that it's easy, because when you want to do serious development, it's not... I told you, I myself spend even weeks thinking and weighting pros and cons of various languages, libraries and approaches and their impact on current and future development... and you just call it easy, like it's enough to just pick one almost at random...

Sorry, but is your "concept" basically a very vague almost meaningless statement, that you just say and then wait for everyone to think up ideas for you? That's NOT how it's done in game design. You have to come up with SOMETHING and I mean something more specific, that will actually start the idea flow, what are you doing now, is basically just sitting back and waiting for everyone to come up with something entirely on their own... I mean... if you work in a development team and you want to start something new, you have to be a little bit more specific than just that, to give others direction, something they can base their ideas on. And that doesn't mean just that they're add new ideas, they can say, that your concept is not what they want and that they want to do it in a different way. Important thing is to give some direction, some start, not just say something vague and expect others to do the thinking for you. That's not how projects are started, like I said, when a new concept is created in development team (and I've been trough this already before), it's usually longer, because it gives some direction. That's important, it doesn't matter if the final idea will be something totally else, but giving some direction speeds things up A LOT.

I never said that good gameplay is enough, but I said, that just because it's with pets and furry things, it doesn't mean at all that it's just for people who like pets and are furries or fans of the comic.

Also... are you then implying, that I want to make the game low quality? That it can't be sold? Are you implying that when it's developed for a free that developers intentionally lower the quality? You think they wouldn't try their best? Do you think that others aim to make some inferior games when they don't talk about "customers"? Well that's very nice of you...

Yes... about the challenge... I was also quite naive years before and thought that players would just keep playing even though there wasn't much challenge or any at all... well and the result was boring... although it may be just that I'm horrible at this... But I thought it was somewhat clear, that challenge (in any useful form) is the necessary basis when making ANY game, so when you don't focus on that, you basically don't focus on player wanting to play the game... When I think about it, I can't even think of games without challenge... maybe because they're boring and never get any attention? Or maybe I just don't know much games... But that about dealing with other people... I think you should know, that game must offer more than just that, because many things that are fun in the real world are very very boring, when you convert them just into a game, without making any changes to make it challenging and fun even on the computer.

But I guess you've got this project already under control and you apparently know much more than I do (I've never sold or intended to sell a game... I've made some other things for money, but not a game...), so I won't even bother with my ""concept"" and a game you can't even sell and go away... Sorry for bothering you, I guess I should've been quiet and keep mouth shut from start

GameCobra: You seriously want to ""develop"" this in a RPG maker?

[GameCobra]

It would be more fun than you think honestly =P

Although i have to admit, i haven't touched them since 13 years ago. would be a dandy to get use to them again. @_@

[Frooxius]

GameCobra: no it wouldn't for me. If you ever design own stuff in some programming language and something that gives you absolute freedom to design it however you want, you would know that it's much more fun when you can do anything you want, not just what some very limited tool offers you...
Plus I wasn't even talking about it being fun or not, but about as a development tool for the game and resulting game itself... because such tools usually don't allow you to create much original games nor give you freedom to design it how you want, they're very limited, but they're easy to use for people who don't know anything about designing a game and programming... but did you even read what I wrote? That the project should be original and it's important to choose the tool wisely? And you say RPG maker?! WHY are you doing this? Why do you keep mocking me and lauging?! Seriously stop it! It's NOT FUNNY! What have I ever done to you that you hate me?

[GameCobra]

Tails, for starters, i respect what you've done on the forums here and i apologize for making you feel underwhelmed honestly. that's my fault for not considering that. I'm not a programmer and i only gotten as technical with a PC these days as hardware.

The thing is, When i hear about a Housepet related game, it sounds easy in terms of something i use to do which was a RPG. When i hear the suggestion for a game to be original however, i think it would just be nice and less frustrating if we could attempt something like a game-making program and see how it goes first.

And i do know that programmers definitely have alot more freedom when making games. It's why i tried my hand originally to try to be a game producer in something, but found anything besides directing... got overwhelming for me. I prefer it these days for most people that at least like to try a project out to try something like a game-developing software just to see if they can get a good idea of what they are looking for. RPG-maker i admit isn't really rocket-science compared to something like the Unreal world makers or Team Fortress 2 map creators, but it's just an example i thought i'd throw in there in terms of an idea of what to try. i prefer if Housepets followed the ideas of a RPG simply because it would work with the humorous ideas of RPGs and D&D related material. Now to make that idea it's own original idea however... that's where i'm stumped and RPG-maker just seemed like my best idea.

[Frooxius]

Yes, really and you expect me to believe that? I know what you're doing, because there are several inconsistencies in your story. I don't know why do you keep doing this to me, but most people seem to do that and act so nicely so I won't run away when they make fun of me, thinking I won't see trough their act... Like... why see how it goes out first, when you're in your own words incapable of taking it further once it works, using some actual programming language? How do you even want to test something in such software, which basically doesn't allow you much to create your own game... just to modify some already created RPG game, without being able to actually design your own concept? Not to mention I probably tried that little game almost a year ago for nothing I guess... Actually programmed (meaning I can design the game system myself), but in scripting language with simple universal engine, so the development is very fast, before moving to much better languages... You can drop the act, I know what you're really doing, what you said doesn't make sense and we both know why Why do I even bother, all I get is just more laugh from you all

[Ebly]

Stop it.

We do not hate you. We are not mocking you. We are not deceiving you.

If our understanding of these things are not up to your standards, that is no excuse to yell at GameCobra.

If you can't believe what I am saying, that is your own problem.

Any more on this will be dealt with as needed.