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2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy 
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Maybe I'm too use to darker tones but this wasn't such a shock to me. Though I assume this will be the furthest extent of Keene's torture we'll see, a splash page to show Keene's torture quickly and concisely instead of showing Keene page by page suffering. Unless there's a big emotional gut punch around the corner I predict this to be the darkest page to come. But at least the normal humor pages that ignored story make more sense now, emotional happy break!

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Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:32 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Rick raised a good point on his Twitter, though I was wondering myself well before I saw his comment.

What's with everyone suddenly whining about how unpleasant Hell is turning out to be? Were people thinking that Keene's mission to get someone else out would be like an easy-street voucher that would exempt him from the experience? As it is, all that's happened is that Keene's been put to work. Sure, it's bad, but it's not nearly as hardcore as it could be, just ask Doomguy.

Also, food for thought, for those lingering on how depressing Keene's situation is. Breel's been here a lot longer, and has almost certainly suffered something far worse.


Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:02 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
I don't know if my post came across as hating on this scene in particular but that is not the case. My issue is not with Keene being tortured here as come on guys its Hell, really what did you expect. And more with the overall arc itself, for various reasons, but pertinent to this discussion it seems to just like to paint Keene in the wrong not just because of how he wants to accomplish his and his fathers plan but for the plan itself. Breel was already trying to get Keene to use the pool correctly, therefore, making Tarot's part honestly come across less like she was trying to stop the end of the world (as we know the mana pool can be used correctly or else it comes across as really really really stupid to keep it on earth after the game was over.) and more like she just completely opposes Keene's whole plan of Animal Liberation in general. Which I think is a major reason a lot of people ended up disliking her in this arc overall, as I have a feeling most people on the forum agree with him.


Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:23 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Oh my, that factory is a real hell... :? There are so many "workers" in it, with such high standards. :P But I agree, it's not like the one the alt text says. :lol: Poor Keene, but I think it's enough, probably he finally got how's the hard work. ;) No bathroom breaks? Now that's against any creature rights... :(

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Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:03 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
leinglo Wrote:
Rick raised a good point on his Twitter, though I was wondering myself well before I saw his comment.

What's with everyone suddenly whining about how unpleasant Hell is turning out to be? Were people thinking that Keene's mission to get someone else out would be like an easy-street voucher that would exempt him from the experience? As it is, all that's happened is that Keene's been put to work. Sure, it's bad, but it's not nearly as hardcore as it could be, just ask Doomguy.

Also, food for thought, for those lingering on how depressing Keene's situation is. Breel's been here a lot longer, and has almost certainly suffered something far worse.


That’s the problem - many of us didn’t sign up for Hell. Endtown and other comics give plenty of dark comics to choose from. Housepets is different, or it was supposed to be. Kind of like Obi Wan said in Episode III, “you were supposed to bring balance... not join them!” Though, I doubt Rick has set the tone for future arcs to come with this strip. He hasn’t killed the younglings yet. :P

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Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:19 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Ugh... I swear every time Rick something serious, people are will go "HOUSEPETS WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE SERIOUS!!! HOUSEPETS WAS MEANT TO BE CUTE AND FUNNY!!!!!" and I'm getting sick of it. Like seriously people, we can stop getting paranoid for one second?!

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Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:38 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
the problem also comes from the fact that both sides have valid points... but are being thickheaded and both presenting them as if it's suposed to be a straw-man argument.

something that's had me calling both sides idiots and trying to figure out which one is suposed to be the actual strawman for a while now. add to that the trend with tarot's relationship only to show the dysfunctional moments and leave most of the actual functional relationship implied raher than shown causing people to question if the impled stable side of the relationship actually exists, keene playing up rich steriotypes, the breel/christ metaphors, and the arc in general pingponging between the teams working together and fighting, and it's just nonstop mood wiplash.

it's why i got mad at the filler. i didn't want a breather from that i wanted it over.

the hell plotline by contrast is actually pretty straight forward.

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Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:46 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Keene's not being tortured; he's experiencing the application of a new MBA management motivational practice.

Love the new title he earned. Sorta like the administration at my university (Sub-Section Vice Assistant Associate Directive Coordinating Principal for Multiplication of Additive Subtraction), except that the salaries are considerable and you don't know what you job is.

I don't Twiiter so I have no idea what Rick wrote. I'll wait on the story; he's done dark and foreboding before.
Be not dismayed, chums.

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Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:57 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Boy, am I glad Cerberus got that promotion
Douglas Collier Wrote:
That’s the problem - many of us didn’t sign up for Hell.
Did we sign up for a story about a boy who was kidnapped by his abused house pets and subsequently was abused by them, who then grows up to join PETA and unknowingly enters into ill-conceived plots to kidnap pets to release them into the wild that involve smothering the kidnap victim to death if the plan goes south?


Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:00 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Argent Wrote:
You get paid in hell scrip that you can only spend at the hell store and they're always out of everything.

ding ding ding

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Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:24 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
I trust you, Rick. You haven't let us down before. I trust this is going somewhere important.

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Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:33 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
rickgriffin Wrote:
Argent Wrote:
You get paid in hell scrip that you can only spend at the hell store and they're always out of everything.

ding ding ding

meh, still better than them selling lootboxes.

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Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:42 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
lootboxes are always for sale

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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Lootboxes are actually kind of a fascinating subject to me. They exist in their own grey area. Game Theory did a video on them once.

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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
what exactly is 'gray' about "uses the same kind of mental trickery as a slot machine, but with payouts that arent actually real"? and dont give me that always win 'something' line. winning literal garbage isnt winning. "minor wins" are no different than losses if they get you no closer to your end goal.

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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Well, I'm not defending them. Mostly I have those Halo 5 packs you can buy or earn through online play in mind. It operates on the same principle. Sometimes what you get is a tank, sometimes it's a plasma pistol. I guess the difference is 1) everything in those packs can be useful to a clever or good player and 2) more importantly, you can buy them with points earned during gameplay if you don't want to buy it. I guess if you can consider those things loot boxes or loot box-like items, then the grey area is what kinds of things do they give you. If the bad stuff is literally garbage, that's bad. But if the worst stuff can still be used in some situations that makes it better and you can still use the "always get something" argument.

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Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:47 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Once again, it's ultimately Rick's comic, and he can do whatever he wants with it.
I am in no way a hater of this arc. I'm personally just a little shocked with the tone it has taken in the recent strips (even if Keene working as a slave was not such a surprise after seeing Hell for the first time).
But once again, that is just my own opinion. After all, criticism is easy, but the art is not.
Just because people don't like something in your comic doesn't mean that they necessarily think it sucks. You can never please everybody. I'm not a creator (not yet at least), so I can't put myself in your shoes, but I think it may be something a writer has to deal with at some points. I don't know.

So yeah, I've just read Rick's Twitter comments (and Kari's on Facebook).
If I'm one of the people who offended you guys with my comments, then I am legitimately sorry. The last thing I wanted was to frustrate you.
I'm still a big fan of this comic. Heck, we still are, or else we wouldn't comment on the three strips every week.

Be proud of your story. Ultimately, if you're happy with it, then it's what matters the most.

And like I've said, I look forward to see where this leads! :)


Last edited by Soerix on Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:57 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
I thought the loot box comment was funny. =B

Soerix Wrote:
Once again, it's ultimately Rick's comic, and he can do whatever he wants with it.
I am in no way a hater of this arc. I'm personally just a little shocked with the tone it has taken in the recent strips (even if Keene working as a slave was not such a surprise after seeing Hell for the first time).
But once again, that is just my own opinion. After all, criticism is easy, but the art is not.
Just because people don't like something in your comic doesn't mean that they necessarily think it sucks. You can never please everybody. I'm not a creator (not yet at least), so I can't put myself in your shoes, but I think it may be something a writer has to deal with at some points. I don't know.

So yeah, I've just read Rick's Twitter comments (and Kari's on Facebook).
If I'm one of the people who offended you guys with my comments, then I am legitimately sorry. The last thing I wanted was to frustrate you.
I'm still a big fan of this comic. Heck, we still are, or else we wouldn't comment on the three strips every week.

Be proud of your story. Ultimately, if it pleases you, then it's what matters the most.

And like I've said, I look forward to see where this leads! :)


This. Also some of it may be due to worry. We, as the readers, don’t know where the story is going, so we don’t know what to expect - these are uncharted waters for us. Please forgive us for our impatience and resistance to this arc’s direction; we really do love the comic, sometimes a little too much. We need to give you more credit. Thank you for giving us characters we care about so much it hurts. ;)

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Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:06 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Hey, look on the bright side, maybe Keene will come out of this all RIPPED and with a whole bunch of new skills. x)


Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:47 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
I’m worried about his eyesight. Welding without a mask is dangerous.

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Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:16 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
In Hell, everyone is a chief and not an indian.

Buster Wrote:
what exactly is 'gray' about "uses the same kind of mental trickery as a slot machine, but with payouts that arent actually real"? and dont give me that always win 'something' line. winning literal garbage isnt winning. "minor wins" are no different than losses if they get you no closer to your end goal.


I don't agree with the hate with the lootbox system is. You can grab everything eventually. Keyword is eventually. Just a question of how badly you want it =P

*opens a lootbox, expecting a Grape and Maxwell plushie... and gets Bino and Tiger*

.... Gah!

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Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:22 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
if i'm going to put my time/money into something, I want to get something I value out of it.
not some of the time, or eventually, EVERY time. otherwise why bother.

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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
rickgriffin Wrote:
lootboxes are always for sale
And they all contain copper stars.

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Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:56 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
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all in the attitude Keene


Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:08 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Heh, gotta love Larson.

Yeah, I bet even if you could get loot boxes, it just takes too long to earn enough to buy one. That was something I hated in Battlefront 2. Add in the randomized stuff, yeah, frustrating.

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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
IceKitsune Wrote:
it seems to just like to paint Keene in the wrong not just because of how he wants to accomplish his and his fathers plan but for the plan itself.
What I've been getting from this arc is rather more of a grey story line, not clear cut in any way (which I think is Rick's preference in stories). Keene's goals are laudable, his willingness to ignore caution from a close friend and two experts in the field simply because he had an "easy solution" right in front of him was reckless and foolhardy. You can't really dismiss Keene's intentions, and you can't really excuse the behavior (in totality). It's grey. That's what allows us to empathize with Keene here. It's somewhat his fault that he's in this situation, but he still doesn't really deserve this punishment. Still he's going to fight through this in order to retrieve Breel. Ultimately it's the sacrifice now that will make the reward that much sweeter.
These are the themes that I feel like this arc is going for. A ferret has taken the proverbial road to Hell paved with good intentions, and will (hopefully) come out having gained something of worth.

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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Obbl Wrote:
Keene's goals are laudable, his willingness to ignore caution from a close friend and two experts in the field simply because he had an "easy solution" right in front of him was reckless and foolhardy. You can't really dismiss Keene's intentions, and you can't really excuse the behavior (in totality). It's grey. That's what allows us to empathize with Keene here. It's somewhat his fault that he's in this situation, but he still doesn't really deserve this punishment. Still he's going to fight through this in order to retrieve Breel. Ultimately it's the sacrifice now that will make the reward that much sweeter.
These are the themes that I feel like this arc is going for. A ferret has taken the proverbial road to Hell paved with good intentions, and will (hopefully) come out having gained something of worth.

^^This. This right here.
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Dragon Furry Wrote:
I am kinda confused why there is a hell in this universes that takes in animals. It kinda seemed that, in the arc with King, that all animals gets into heaven. But then now...@.@

at the end of Not All Dogs it was explained that... well, not all dogs. It's just easier for dogs (and presumably other animals) to get into Heaven. they can still end up here.

rickgriffin Wrote:
Argent Wrote:
You get paid in hell scrip that you can only spend at the hell store and they're always out of everything.

ding ding ding

that sound means the Hell store is closing. you hear always hear it right when you get there after your shift.

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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Obbl Wrote:
Keene's goals are laudable, his willingness to ignore caution from a close friend and two experts in the field simply because he had an "easy solution" right in front of him was reckless and foolhardy.
Don't forget that one of those experts has explicitly declared herself his enemy and opposed to his goals, and if he didn't act RIGHT THEN she was going to take the goal away from him.

NOT LIKE HE'S UNDER PRESSURE, YOU KNOW.

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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Douglas Collier Wrote:
I’m worried about his eyesight. Welding without a mask is dangerous.

I set up the theory, that in hell you have improved healing capabilities so you can be tortured all the time and they don't have to wait until you heal up

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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
MX682XM Wrote:
Douglas Collier Wrote:
I’m worried about his eyesight. Welding without a mask is dangerous.

I set up the theory, that in hell you have improved healing capabilities so you can be tortured all the time and they don't have to wait until you heal up

Like in Niven and Pournelle's Inferno.

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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Argent Wrote:
Obbl Wrote:
Keene's goals are laudable, his willingness to ignore caution from a close friend and two experts in the field simply because he had an "easy solution" right in front of him was reckless and foolhardy.
Don't forget that one of those experts has explicitly declared herself his enemy and opposed to his goals, and if he didn't act RIGHT THEN she was going to take the goal away from him.

NOT LIKE HE'S UNDER PRESSURE, YOU KNOW.


They declared him his enemy because he just won't do what he is told, though. He really wanted that easy solution and ignored all the warning labels they were giving him. Though Keene at least gets credit that he is listening to them, he just doesn't seem to care about the dangers that could happen.

We also have to remember that most of us thought Tarot was kidding about the end of the world, also.

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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
GameCobra Wrote:
They declared him his enemy because he just won't do what he is told, though.
Tarot had been his enemy for years before this arc.
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We also have to remember that most of us thought Tarot was kidding about the end of the world, also.
Well, she does have a habit of being economical with the truth. Not only doesn't she explain things when she needs to, she makes things up to get people to go along with her.

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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Tarot does have this patronizing pattern of being elusive and elliptical in a sort of "You can't handle the truth" superiority, only to get exposed and then get defensive, shrug off the pretense, come emotionally apart, or turn academic and pull out a chart to lecture when everyone else is going bonkers. Yet, "Grapenut" that I am, I've warmed to her, maybe just because Sabrina is one of my favorite pets. If Sabrina remains devoted to Tarot, their must be good there in that uptight Pomeranian.
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
This again? Didn't I set up a thread for the whole Tarot vs Keene thing? Why not take this discussion there?

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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
There is something a lot of people aren't remembering here. Pete promised Keene's father to do what he wanted (and IIRC Keene as well later on) in exchange for his help. As far as Keene is concerned he is owed this twice over by Pete anyway and now people who Pete told him were his enemy are trying to screw him out of what he is owed. You really can't blame him for how he wanted to go about it because that is basically what Pete told him to do and you can't blame him for not believing Tarot or Breel either for that exact same reason.


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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
IceKitsune Wrote:
There is something a lot of people aren't remembering here. Pete promised Keene's father to do what he wanted (and IIRC Keene as well later on) in exchange for his help. As far as Keene is concerned he is owed this twice over by Pete anyway and now people who Pete told him were his enemy are trying to screw him out of what he is owed. You really can't blame him for how he wanted to go about it because that is basically what Pete told him to do and you can't blame him for not believing Tarot or Breel either for that exact same reason.

That is a good point. Kitsune promised rewards to people involved in the game when it ended (provided they earned them, which I’d say Mr. Milton and Keene did). However, the only thing Keene got was a bunch of loose gargoyles to deal with. Actually, I think King was the only one who got rewarded at the end of the game, and he was the least involved overall. Sabrina and Tarot didn’t seem to get anything; I’d say Kitsune has some more payouts to dispense.

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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
As I recollect, Doug, Kitsune's verdict was "dings all around". Joel/King had a special deal, and he had to remind Nine-Tails in order to get it. (Kitsune certainly remembered but he does like to mess with people..."Kinda my thing." Because their powers flowed from Dragon, Tarot and Sabrina were diminished when she was turned mortal. Unfair...maybe.

CyberDragon, no slight intended.

And, speaking of unfair, that's likely why folks are upset with what's happening to Keene. He's thrown aside his dreams of seizing the mana to try to rescue Breel and instead he gets brutalized. It's a sharp turn from the humor of the Dino-imp, from Eudoant's officious protocol, and the initial sense we took that despite what we know Pandemonium represents, there is a rough fairness at its foundation. Keene is a mortal. He doesn't belong there (yet?) and somehow ... as with Breel ... Justice should done.

Or maybe we're just trying to run ahead of the story...

Regards.


Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:12 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
Stay strong Keene...


Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:37 pm
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Post Re: 2018/02/21 - Imagine Sisyphus Happy
The fact is, Keene is on what students of historical literature would call a Hero's Journey. His various endeavors have led him first to Heaven and then to Hell. He is learning that even without the power of the mana pool, he has power... not only because he's fabulously wealthy, but because his actions can turn the world for the better or the worse. And his actions have consequences that don't simply go away when he turns his back.

Someone mentioned Inferno by Niven and Pournelle. In that book, there is a psychiatrist being punished for torturing one of his patients in a hotbox for not responding to stimuli the way he thought they should; he turned up the heat until the man screamed to be let out. The parallels here are interesting.

For everything Keene has experienced and all he's seen, even with his occasional outbursts about wanting to do what Mr. Milton wanted for the benefit of all, he's still shallow and self-centered at the core. He wants what he wants and he wants it now, and (to use a casual expression with an ironic double meaning) Devil take the hindmost. And this is his punishment. The forging of the Eternal Chain, the beatings, the exhaustion, are nothing compared to what he is suffering inside, because he knows that someone he cares deeply for is suffering somewhere out of his reach and it's all his fault. If this doesn't convince him that he has to think of the world beyond his windows, really think about it rather than trying to cast it in a mold he's forged from his father's gold... then he's probably going to be stuck in Satan's Own Corporate Structure for a very long time. Which would be a downer, so I think we can expect Rick to help Keene complete his Hero's Journey and come out the other side better for it.

I would like to close with a word to Rick:

Sir, I don't pop up on this forum often, because the act of removing on-site comments for each comic had the valuable (to me) effect of separating the story being told from the ongoing discussion of it, which for this strip seems to range from animated banter about what will be happening next to grim pronouncements of doom and despair. I popped in for the first time in years because I anticipated that this strip's tone would inspire interesting dialogue.. and it has.

As someone pointed out, to create art is more difficult and significant than to criticize it. As a fellow creator, I urge you to do what I do when people state that they don't like this or that and they're disappointed... and that is to let them be disappointed and to go on creating. Those who speak at length about how art should or should not be created should kindly stay out of the way of the person creating the art.

Fee

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Fee Radikal
virtual wolf on Second Life
(feel free to say hello)


Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:58 pm
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