2017/11/29 - Warriors Need Counseling Badly

[Dissension]

[ Warriors Need Counseling Badly]

Title Text: what are you worried about, Maxwell is gonna collide into something off-panel too isn't he

Peanut raises a good point! When isn't the fate of the world at stake, hmm?

[Saturn381]

When hasn't the world not been at stake?

[Gbr23]

So... if Peanut & company reaches the pool first, does Keene wins ?

[D-Rock]

Thiiiink I'm siding with Tarot here. Having this kind of decision-making right before a grand catastrophe is sort of a jerk move.

[MX682XM]

I think it's the first time we see Tarots ears from the 'inside'

[Iceheart]

I bet Karishad is a certified couples counselor

[CHAOKOCartoons]

Awww, they're fighting! How cute!

...wait did Peanut basically just hold a grudge and endanger the world to prove a point?

[D-Rock]

Yup. Which is why I'm siding with Tarot in this instance.

[Bandit1990]

Well, The world isn't necessarily in danger.

We've seen how magic works in this universe. Being untrained, anything Keene tries is just as likely to blow up in his face as anything else.

[CHAOKOCartoons]

Well, The world isn't necessarily in danger.

We've seen how magic works in this universe. Being untrained, anything Keene tries is just as likely to blow up in his face as anything else.

Or, ya know, blow up in the planet/galaxy/universes face.

[D-Rock]

Yeah, messing with things you don't have a proper understanding of is a common way to die.

[Welsh Halfwit]

I think, in the past, he's always trusted Tarot because she's always trusted him. And then, by leaving him like that, she's shown she doesn't trust him. So he's actually asking WHY should he trust Tarot? It's that doubt showing here, nothing more. I like Tarot but, from what we've seen, she's been manipulated by others her whole life and she's occasionally doing it to others herself without really knowing it.

Patience has never been blessed on her
as can be seen in how she treats Lester,
finally that truth might be getting to Peanut
that a relationship with Tarot is a door best left shut?
She yells at him and expects him to fall into line
but Peanut thinks that he’s doing just fine.
He’s even sent Max to Ninja the scroll .
Max wins the day? Hmm, how droll.
She’s got to stop him for reasons unsaid.
She rarely tells him, keeping it secret instead
and now it’s come to bite her at last.
She never did learn the truths of the past.

[leinglo]

Thiiiink I'm siding with Tarot here. Having this kind of decision-making right before a grand catastrophe is sort of a jerk move.

To be fair, demeaning the people close to you that would otherwise be on your side and driving them to work against you right before a grand catastrophe isn't much better. In fact I would go as far as to call it...unwise.

[CHAOKOCartoons]

"You were petty to me, so now I'm gonna be petty to you!"

"PEANUT MY PETTYNESS WASNT AT THE COST OF THE WORLD ENDING!"

"WELL IT IS NOW!!!"

Tarot was petty in the past tense for a good cause. She was bad to be good.
Peanut was petty in the future tense for a bad cause, but only because he was wronged and wanted to prove himself. He was good to be bad.
Max and Grape are just kinda going with Peanut's logic too, so that's bad.
Joey's group is just a bunch of semi-jerks here for fun and a prize, so they're neutral bad.
And Res just straight up has no clue what's going on.

In the end of the day: It's everyone's fault the world could explode or fall into chaos! What a typical mortal situation we have here . Demi-gods can't stop em but gosh darn it if their personalities wont!

[leinglo]

There seems to be a lot of automatic assumptions that Keene winning would be the end of the world. Remember, the celestials are taking a strictly neutral advisory role in this debacle. Breel's right there with Keene, and showing no signs of discouraging his actions. If Keene's aims were such a dead-serious threat you'd think the celestials would be a bit more biased towards the opposition, but they're acting like the outcome would be workable, regardless of who gets the well.

[Bandit1990]

That's part of why I'm rooting for him.

That and the fact that his plan has been churning away in the background for a while now and I kind of want to see the fireworks, even if it's just a "Here is a vision of the consequences of this action" kind of thing.

Edit: of course, I'm also the guy that owns a custom airbrushed ballcap with the Cobra logo, and bought a metal Decepticon emblem for my car........ "Go Team Evil!!!"

[Obbl]

I don't know who to root for
I want to see how Keene's plan would work out cause it's such an interesting idea, but I want Tarot to stop him cause that's safer and she's worked so hard for it, but I also want Peanut to get back at her cause he's adorable and I love his cheek
Ah, what to do?

[CHAOKOCartoons]

There seems to be a lot of automatic assumptions that Keene winning would be the end of the world. Remember, the celestials are taking a strictly neutral advisory role in this debacle. Breel's right there with Keene, and showing no signs of discouraging his actions. If Keene's aims were such a dead-serious threat you'd think the celestials would be a bit more biased towards the opposition, but they're acting like the outcome would be workable, regardless of who gets the well.

We've gone over the multiple ways this plan could go horribly wrong. The only one the celestials are worried about is the possibility of the universe literally exploding, the others TO THEM actually are workable:

1: Adaption and Habitat Competition - Suddenly animals and humans have equal rights, meaning now animals and pets also have the same responsibilities and punishments as humans do for their actions. Not every animal or pet wants this, and not all of them would even know HOW to do any of that stuff. It's just suddenly thrown at them, like a pet thrown into the wild. Sure they'd get the same benefits like the CHANCE to succeed and live independantly as well as proper judgement and representation, but this would doom many pets in particular who just don't know what to do or are too immature to cope with all these struggles. Plus, now animals and pets are seen as competition for land and jobs, as equals inhabiting the same niche, Humans and Animals would be doomed to fight over territory. It'd only be a matter of time before one of them falls back into subservient society or, more likely due to magical interference, one or both of them goes extinct. The rest of the universe is fine and there's still life on earth technically so the celestials might only take a decent inconvenience from this.

2: Furry Doomsday - Suddenly all Humans are animals too (ya know, the fluffy kind) so they technically HAVE to be equal. Seemingly harmless at first glance, but unfortunately this would drastically shorten the lifespan of many people and may even cause people who exceed that lifespan already to die almost instantly. A majority of the population can also not reproduce with each other, therefore decreasing the chance of recovering from the sudden population loss. Not to mention people, tools, and structures would have to be adjusted to compensate for whatever kind of animal each individual has become, this alone would slow progress down quite a bit and some people would be doomed in certain environments. Even if the world did survive from this, which is possible, it would deal a devistating blow to the population. Their earth would probably lose a couple million or billion people to this. And again, the celestials wouldn't lose too much from this.
Also did I mention the complication about what/who's considered food and who/what's not?

3: Human Doomsday - All animals are now humans. Up goes the population and competition for land and resources by an absurd amount. Know what that means? Either all the resources are used up, the world dies faster or everyone fights eachother. Not to mention, that food supply? Instantly plummets. At least no ones eating other sentient beings anymore... hopefully? This one could either be isntantly horrible or horrible in the longrun, possibly a problem for Celestials

4: Heaven's Better Anyway - I guess everyone's equal if they're dead. Unless you were mean, of course. Celestials reeeeally wouldn't like this one.

5: Auto Adjust - Suddenly the world is perfect and equal and the entire world and system is adjusted so that no one has any problems with this scenario ever. Unfortunately, that also means everyone would need to be brainwashed to think the same way and forget the world was ever not equal. They're independent, but not mentally. The world's fine, but mind control and wippings a bit un-morally right eh? I guess it's still fine all and all but gee that sure would be convenient.

6: What Are Consequences? - Everyone's happy and there's no problems or side effects cause... magic? It does nothing to the world but it really hurts the writing.

7: What Are Consequences + Furries - Same as above but everyone gets turned into animals. Hurts the writing more considering the furry doomsday one.

Honestly from a story perspective, some of these would be really good. They'd just have to consider the harsh consequences that come with them, which would make for a good spinoff or sequel series. I don't think these would make any sense in "Housepets!" though, the biggest problem with a lot of them is that they kill the entire point and theming of the comic. That's why a lot of us have made the point that Keene getting his way would basically mark the end of the comic, or at least change it in a way that'd basically make it something completely different, therefore it's not really the same comic anymore. Not that ending it here and getting a sequel series would be a bad thing.

Point is: Keene's wish wouldn't destroy the universe unless he literally tore reality appart by accident. That's all the celestials seem to want to prevent. Anything else is just on the mortals.

[Not A Furry]

but mind control and wippings a bit un-morally right eh?

I always though freedom of thought, from a phylosophical standpoint, wasn't necessarily a good thing. Like, we could be perfectly happy having relative freedom of thought but have our minds controlled on things like murder, theft and stuff like that. As long as every single human being was controlled the same the world would be a better place (Unless you believe in lizard people :^])

[Argent]

The mistake about always saying the world is at stake is nobody pays attention when the world is actually at stake until it's too late!

Never cry wolf!

Unless you're actually in the wolf house, or Milton Manor, or something like that.

Then you give the wolf a hanky and hugs.

There seems to be a lot of automatic assumptions that Keene winning would be the end of the world.

Yeh, this.

I'm still rooting for everyone in the world being turned into animals*.

They'll need an annex for animal heaven.

* Yes humans are animals BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

[NHWestoN]

There's always a reason not to talk about my feelings, huh, Peanut? Just cause it's always this save the world thing, and you're now 900 pounds of solid muscle but you can't knock out Lester who's the size of a cockroach and ... Hon, have your eyes gone from green to yellow???

And Maxwell is ninja-launched!! "When magic fails, it's time for heroes !!" (The. Last Unicorn). Finally, you could be the hero you'be dreamed of becoming !!! ...... or not.

Regards.

[Frank]

Peanut raises a good point! When isn't the fate of the world at stake, hmm?

Well, there was that one time around New Years, 2001

Keene's wish

Wait, if they can wish for anything, what makes you think they're going to go with Keene's wish? Max being Max is probably just going to wish to be really buff, and/or for the ladies to not care how un-buff he is in relation to others.

[Buster]

There seems to be a lot of automatic assumptions that Keene winning would be the end of the world. Remember, the celestials are taking a strictly neutral advisory role in this debacle. Breel's right there with Keene, and showing no signs of discouraging his actions. If Keene's aims were such a dead-serious threat you'd think the celestials would be a bit more biased towards the opposition, but they're acting like the outcome would be workable, regardless of who gets the well.

We've gone over the multiple ways this plan could go horribly wrong. The only one the celestials are worried about is the possibility of the universe literally exploding, the others TO THEM actually are workable:

1: Adaption and Habitat Competition - Suddenly animals and humans have equal rights, meaning now animals and pets also have the same responsibilities and punishments as humans do for their actions. Not every animal or pet wants this, and not all of them would even know HOW to do any of that stuff. It's just suddenly thrown at them, like a pet thrown into the wild. Sure they'd get the same benefits like the CHANCE to succeed and live independantly as well as proper judgement and representation, but this would doom many pets in particular who just don't know what to do or are too immature to cope with all these struggles. Plus, now animals and pets are seen as competition for land and jobs, as equals inhabiting the same niche, Humans and Animals would be doomed to fight over territory. It'd only be a matter of time before one of them falls back into subservient society or, more likely due to magical interference, one or both of them goes extinct. The rest of the universe is fine and there's still life on earth technically so the celestials might only take a decent inconvenience from this.

2: Furry Doomsday - Suddenly all Humans are animals too (ya know, the fluffy kind) so they technically HAVE to be equal. Seemingly harmless at first glance, but unfortunately this would drastically shorten the lifespan of many people and may even cause people who exceed that lifespan already to die almost instantly. A majority of the population can also not reproduce with each other, therefore decreasing the chance of recovering from the sudden population loss. Not to mention people, tools, and structures would have to be adjusted to compensate for whatever kind of animal each individual has become, this alone would slow progress down quite a bit and some people would be doomed in certain environments. Even if the world did survive from this, which is possible, it would deal a devistating blow to the population. Their earth would probably lose a couple million or billion people to this. And again, the celestials wouldn't lose too much from this.
Also did I mention the complication about what/who's considered food and who/what's not?

3: Human Doomsday - All animals are now humans. Up goes the population and competition for land and resources by an absurd amount. Know what that means? Either all the resources are used up, the world dies faster or everyone fights eachother. Not to mention, that food supply? Instantly plummets. At least no ones eating other sentient beings anymore... hopefully? This one could either be isntantly horrible or horrible in the longrun, possibly a problem for Celestials

4: Heaven's Better Anyway - I guess everyone's equal if they're dead. Unless you were mean, of course. Celestials reeeeally wouldn't like this one.

5: Auto Adjust - Suddenly the world is perfect and equal and the entire world and system is adjusted so that no one has any problems with this scenario ever. Unfortunately, that also means everyone would need to be brainwashed to think the same way and forget the world was ever not equal. They're independent, but not mentally. The world's fine, but mind control and wippings a bit un-morally right eh? I guess it's still fine all and all but gee that sure would be convenient.

6: What Are Consequences? - Everyone's happy and there's no problems or side effects cause... magic? It does nothing to the world but it really hurts the writing.

7: What Are Consequences + Furries - Same as above but everyone gets turned into animals. Hurts the writing more considering the furry doomsday one.

Honestly from a story perspective, some of these would be really good. They'd just have to consider the harsh consequences that come with them, which would make for a good spinoff or sequel series. I don't think these would make any sense in "Housepets!" though, the biggest problem with a lot of them is that they kill the entire point and theming of the comic. That's why a lot of us have made the point that Keene getting his way would basically mark the end of the comic, or at least change it in a way that'd basically make it something completely different, therefore it's not really the same comic anymore. Not that ending it here and getting a sequel series would be a bad thing.

Point is: Keene's wish wouldn't destroy the universe unless he literally tore reality appart by accident. That's all the celestials seem to want to prevent. Anything else is just on the mortals.

mass mind-control seems the least egregious option, but raises the issue of nobody questioning the lopsided infrastructure and potentially not fixing it's lopsidedness, leading to social systems falling apart and nobody knowing why as they're magically oblivious to the root cause of the problem.

also, aren't scenarios 6 & 7 just 1 & 2 with someone in the background going "Its all good, a wizard did it."

Aditionally, from his earlier conversations with breel, keene seems to want a society that runs on survival of the fittest, but with everyone on equal footing. The possibility of that being taken literally is something none of these scenarios address.

[Argent]

Wait, if they can wish for anything, what makes you think they're going to go with Keene's wish? Max being Max is probably just going to wish to be really buff, and/or for the ladies to not care how un-buff he is in relation to others.

It's a scroll of summoning, no? Who's it going to summon? I'm calling Keene Milton.

[Missing footnote from previous comment: The Russian translation of Farley Mowat's "Never Cry Wolf" was titled "Wolves, Please Don't Cry". And now you know the rest of the story.]

[vulpinator]

To distract from the weight of the topic at hand, I believe Tarot’s eyes are yellow as opposed to green because she’s using the power of the temple and not of the Dragon. It’s why her headwear is also the same color.

[VoidGaming404]

While Tarot is technically right, I hope the ending has them deciding to take a break from their relationship. In my opinion, both sides aren't ready for a relationship. Peanut just proved that he'd be willing to put the world in danger just because of a personal grudge, while Tarot comes off as too controlling. She may be physically free of Spirit Dragon, but she isn't mentally. She's so fixated on "saving the world", that she doesn't realize that that isn't her job anymore. Her "job" at this point, is to be a normal dog, to just live her life, but she can't seem to realize that. In my opinion, this relationship is just toxic at this point.

[NHWestoN]

Thanks for the optical illumination, Vulpinator. Frank, hour comment about poor, dear flabby Maxwell takes us again to a sinister question that haunts the magical quests of our gang. "If power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" then how sure can we be that any of our friends could handle the mana powers once actually in their possession? Makes for good drama, though, don't it?

Regards.

[GameCobra]

Sabrina is going to stop Max. calling it =P

And Peanut gave me a good surprise. Loyal he maybe, I figured he understood her - maybe not.

[NHWestoN]

Sabrina stop Max? Her old boyfriend? First, Tarot and Peanut... Now Sabrina and Maxwell.. Romantic conflict standing between rescuing the globe...!

Brave call, Cobra. You're on, chum !

[Bandit1990]

A lot of good points have been made, And I am fully aware that Keene's wish would obliterate the Status Quo. That's why in my last post I mentioned seeing it in a vision, maybe he's smart enough to ask for a preview before arbitrarily applying sweeping changes to the entire world.

Also, I know it's been established that the scrolls are summoning spells, but I don't think the teams know that. I think they were just told to read them in the chamber. So the others may not get a chance to make their wishes.

The main reason I think we'll see something related to the NWO is that this was teased a few times way back in the beginning of the arc, and this is the longest continuous arc we've had. It's building up to SOMETHING.

[Douglas Collier]

Considering how Tarot has been treating Peanut in non-world-ending situations (telling him to do stuff, ignoring him), I think that Tarot rejecting Peanut’s help was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. Peanut has made plenty of sacrifices for Tarot - it’s time for her to do the same; well, as Tarot said, probably not this exact time - but for Peanut, there’s no time like the present, and Peanut finally had the opportunity to put his paw down and express his feelings and get Tarot’s priorities in order . . . And Tarot still chose “duty” over him! Peanut’s gotta feel pretty lousy right now.

[Argent]

Peanut just proved that he'd be willing to put the world in danger just because of a personal grudge

Assuming he believes Tarot, and Tarot is always declaring that the world is in danger or your soul is going to be shattered or something similarly dire, and the Gallifrax arc showed that she was fibbing about that at least part of the time... so why should Peanut believe her THIS time?

[VoidGaming404]

Peanut just proved that he'd be willing to put the world in danger just because of a personal grudge

Assuming he believes Tarot, and Tarot is always declaring that the world is in danger or your soul is going to be shattered or something similarly dire, and the Gallifrax arc showed that she was fibbing about that at least part of the time... so why should Peanut believe her THIS time?

That's just the point. He had no idea she was lying then, how does he know if she's lying here? If she is actually telling the truth, (which I believe, as changing the natural order of things can be disastrous) then he is technically putting the world in danger.

[dusk]

*Chewing chips, quietly observing the discussion.*

I look forward to seeing what happens next, to be honest. Like, we are at a pretty big point in the series, yeah? The whole fate of the world (possibly) is at stake!

But we can't do without some good old fashioned romantic discord, now can we? ^w^

[Argent]

That's just the point. He had no idea she was lying then, how does he know if she's lying here?

Grape knows she was lying then. What are the odds it never came up between July 2013 and now? Or that she hasn't blown it with him before? She clearly does this kind of thing all the time.

changing the natural order of things can be disastrous

The natural order of things, to paraphrase Miles, sucks.

[Panther]

Am i the one being to think about something bad happening soon to Max (the punchbag of "Housepets") ?

[GameCobra]

I really hope Max does save the day. Can't wait to see how he brags to Bino about saving the world =3

I would be very amused if Tarot was right all this time and the world does end... by blowing it up. And everyone is like "Doh!"

Sabrina stop Max? Her old boyfriend? First, Tarot and Peanut... Now Sabrina and Maxwell.. Romantic conflict standing between rescuing the globe...!

Brave call, Cobra. You're on, chum !

Considering Peanut was up to plate on Tarot,i suspect it'll be Max's turn. Though I think it's humorous to point out since everyone is fighting each other that Grape has to fight someone ~ and it seems like it's going to be Sabrina.

[Cesco]

Yay, looks like is Maxwell who will read the scroll near the mana pool saving the fate of the world! I hope this is going to happen... Whoa, calm down, Tarot monster. She's scary than ever, she can really hurt someone... Indeed, Peanut is right with that, you haven't been nice with him, Tarot... Peanut's team is the one that deserves the winning more than the other two. Eheheh, for Tarot is always time to save the fate of the world, that's more important than banal couple problems. Deal with it, Peanut.

[QuietEngineer25]

Peanut doesn't seem to hold grudges or do things in spite. It's not really his general personality. Bino, who is not nice to Peanut is treated pretty nicely. Though Tarot doing something to him is more personal because he trusts her. I don't think he would do the opposite of what Tarot said just to prove a point.

[John-056]

While Tarot is technically right, I hope the ending has them deciding to take a break from their relationship. In my opinion, both sides aren't ready for a relationship. Peanut just proved that he'd be willing to put the world in danger just because of a personal grudge, while Tarot comes off as too controlling. She may be physically free of Spirit Dragon, but she isn't mentally. She's so fixated on "saving the world", that she doesn't realize that that isn't her job anymore. Her "job" at this point, is to be a normal dog, to just live her life, but she can't seem to realize that. In my opinion, this relationship is just toxic at this point.

Uhh, need I remind you that Tarot expected Peanut to somehow slog his way through a temple where his Team had barely scraped by? Grape had trouble dealing with a Pack of Kobolds, whose only advantage is Sheer Numbers, while Team Nerd just flattened three massive Beasts like they were nothing!

And frankly, while he may not know if she's saving the world for real, Tarot's been known to blow things out of proportion, such as using her Avatar Powers to look for the Tv remote, pull Peanut into another dimension to talk about a problem she has with Dragon, and Shortly after that, dragged him off by his ear, saying he was in the Doghouse because he called her 'normal'.

Fact is, Tarot rarely did give Peanut the time of day, and when she did, it never was something that stuck, and Tarot's been shown to be quite demanding. She also left him in a temple that was a Deathtrap waiting to be sprung, and unlike the Nerds, Both he and Tarot knew it was a Deathtrap... And she basically left him to Die.

And the bit with 'Saving the World'? Tarot was merely a willing puppet to Dragon. The whole thing with the 'Games' was that it was a massive Duel that had been going for centuries, if not Millenuia, and was started by Dragon trapping Pete in his Temple and not being able to get an Avatar because the Curse she put on it would scare them off!

This is likely Tarot's First Real time actually saving the world, and NOT bending to the Yarns of a bratty Dragon! All of the 'World Protecton' she had done benefitted only Dragon, up until Galifrax, where she argued over who gets Peanut, even though they share a body! Hek, They even demanded he make a choice!

I think the scene where he says "I'm doing this anyway, because Disappearing on me Hurts", may actually be him saying, "This is for leaving me behind, and for all the Grief you put me through in the past few years." Peanut's not known to Hold Grudges, but I feel that even for a dog like him, something has to break. Like Fox, something has to give, and I feel if it would be a waste if Peanut doesn't break somewhere down the Line.