Where are you going for the Fourth of July?

Zander · Post by **Zander** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:18 am

Well, if you even celebrate the Fourth of July.

I'm going to stone mountain.

sliceofdog · Post by **sliceofdog** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:32 am

Well, I'm British, so I'm going to be getting a couple friends together and ~~trying to take back the colony~~ do nothing about the ~~rebellious Yanks~~ friendly Americans who ~~owe us many years of taxes backpay~~ deserve their independence
...
Ahem >_>

Tiggy · Post by **Tiggy** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:35 am

Uhm, I'm not going anywhere cuz I live in sweden, and yeah, we usually don't celebrate 4th of july :3

Post by **rickgriffin** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:37 am

Take my dog to the park so he can have the everloving crap scared out of him by the fireworks

Tiggy · Post by **Tiggy** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:44 am

rickgriffin wrote:Take my dog to the park so he can have the everloving crap scared out of him by the fireworks

So mean :<

IceKitsune · Post by **IceKitsune** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:46 am

rickgriffin wrote:Take my dog to the park so he can have the everloving crap scared out of him by the fireworks

I don't even have to take my dog to the park the distant sounds of the fireworks (or anything loud for that matter) scare her enough in the house. (plus if we took her that close she would just try to run away.)

zeekgenateer · Post by **zeekgenateer** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:07 am

I've been to Stone Mountain a lot as a kid, was decent fun. The country club next to my house always has fireworks, but I might go to a friends house to goof off for the night.

My dog hasn't been too bad bout fireworks in the past, but with him going deaf if they wake him up he might flip.

Dr. Prower · Post by **Dr. Prower** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:09 am

zeekgenateer wrote:I've been to Stone Mountain a lot as a kid, was decent fun. The country club next to my house always has fireworks, but I might go to a friends house to goof off for the night.

My dog hasn't been too bad bout fireworks in the past, but with him going deaf if they wake him up he might flip.

My dog curls up in a ball next to me, no matter where I am. She doesn't like loud sounds.

Dusty · Post by **Dusty** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:23 am

Having a MTG game night plus Fireworks show in my backyard since the only big show in town cost 20 bucks a carload is consits of 20,000 people trying to cram down a local highway. Not fun.

Dr. Prower · Post by **Dr. Prower** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:24 am

does "online" count as a place?

Shinmera · Post by **Shinmera** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:40 am

At home. Probably in front of my PC or my drawing canvas. Depends on what I feel like doing right then.

Slippery-Q · Post by **Slippery-Q** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:40 pm

Go down to Myrtel Beach, buy some fireworks, have a blast with my Dad. :>

lol.. get it? Blast?

hur hur hur. x)

Tiggy · Post by **Tiggy** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:49 pm

Slippery-Q wrote:Go down to Myrtel Beach, buy some fireworks, have a blast with my Dad. :>

lol.. get it? Blast?

hur hur hur. x)

zeekgenateer · Post by **zeekgenateer** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:02 pm

D'oh MTG. Standard is too expensive muffins and cookies YOU JACERATOR! Plus everyone at the card shop near me is a tryhard.

44R0NM10 · Post by **44R0NM10** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:06 pm

I don't quite understand this "4th of July". Why ever would you not want to be part of the British Empire? You're not still sour about taxes, are you? You've been celebrating this day for centuries.

On this matter...you don't mind me asking about the american flag, right? Do you really have it in every classroom in schools? Is it really against the law to burn the flag? Do you...all love this flag so much?

Oh right, the question...I'll be playing computer games, if not finishing my homework. I have school the next day after all.

zeekgenateer · Post by **zeekgenateer** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:09 pm

If you ever listen to any politicking in America, you'll find its ALL about taxes.

Slippery-Q · Post by **Slippery-Q** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:26 pm

44R0NM10 wrote:I don't quite understand this "4th of July". Why ever would you not want to be part of the British Empire? You're not still sour about taxes, are you? You've been celebrating this day for centuries.

On this matter...you don't mind me asking about the american flag, right? Do you really have it in every classroom in schools? Is it really against the law to burn the flag? Do you...all love this flag so much?

Oh right, the question...I'll be playing computer games, if not finishing my homework. I have school the next day after all.

1. Yup, it's in EVERY classroom at my school. Even in the GYM and cafeteria.
2. Yes, it is against the law to burn the flag. Or at least I think it is. If not, you'll at least having neighbors calling the F.B.I on you.
3. I don't love the flag itself, but I love what it represents.

Why would we not want to be part of the British Empire? I can't speak for the whole body politic, but I suggest you read a history book my friend.

ReCreate · Post by **ReCreate** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:37 pm

Tobee wrote:
Slippery-Q wrote:Go down to Myrtel Beach, buy some fireworks, have a blast with my Dad. :>

lol.. get it? Blast?

hur hur hur. x)

the fry i see what you did there image is better, IMO. but meh. >_>

44R0NM10 · Post by **44R0NM10** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:54 pm

Wow, thanks Slippery-Q. Still, I'm not sure about how bad Britain was...but I'm not gonna find out. I think I've read an entire history book at school...and it's only English history (we don't even look into much Scottish history), besides the part on slaves.

The only thing I've found is that Britain started to govern and tax americans without consent. This started the American revolution...according to wikipeadia.

. It's hard to find anything really bad there to be honest.

ctcmjh · Post by **ctcmjh** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:57 pm

Slippery-Q wrote:
44R0NM10 wrote:I don't quite understand this "4th of July". Why ever would you not want to be part of the British Empire? You're not still sour about taxes, are you? You've been celebrating this day for centuries.

On this matter...you don't mind me asking about the american flag, right? Do you really have it in every classroom in schools? Is it really against the law to burn the flag? Do you...all love this flag so much?

Oh right, the question...I'll be playing computer games, if not finishing my homework. I have school the next day after all.
1. Yup, it's in EVERY classroom at my school. Even in the GYM and cafeteria.
2. Yes, it is against the law to burn the flag. Or at least I think it is. If not, you'll at least having neighbors calling the F.B.I on you.
3. I don't love the flag itself, but I love what it represents.

Why would we not want to be part of the British Empire? I can't speak for the whole body politic, but I suggest you read a history book my friend.

1. Yup, Slippery is right, EVERY classroom.
2. The only two organizations legally allowed to burn flags are the U.S. Military, and the Boy Scouts of America (I can burn flags! Woot! but it has to be in a solemn ceremony at dusk or night, and it has to be respectful)
3. Same.

Also, taxes are seen as a bad thing by most people. I for one support taxes and am happy that they provide me with the things I receive: a military to protect us, paved roads, a working government, police force, schooling, etc.

EDIT: I'm going with my family and girlfriend to my cousin's house. There, we will blow off a hundred-gazillion fireworks!

Teh Brawler · Post by **Teh Brawler** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:01 pm

Actually, (thank you Government class) it is now legal to burn the American flag, as it is protected under the first amendment under symbolic speech.

Slippery-Q · Post by **Slippery-Q** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:06 pm

Teh Brawler wrote:Actually, (thank you Government class) it is now legal to burn the American flag, as it is protected under the first amendment under symbolic speech.

lol, how stupid is that?

ctcmjh · Post by **ctcmjh** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:12 pm

Slippery-Q wrote:
Teh Brawler wrote:Actually, (thank you Government class) it is now legal to burn the American flag, as it is protected under the first amendment under symbolic speech.
lol, how stupid is that?

Really? Well, phooey... I think that the Military and the Boy Scouts are still the only ones that can retire a flag though.

Dusty · Post by **Dusty** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:02 pm

zeekgenateer wrote:D'oh MTG. Standard is too expensive **** YOU JACERATOR! Plus everyone at the card shop near me is a tryhard.

Maybe if your trying to build Mythic or any of the other top 5 decks. I play for fun mostly using what I get from drafts. Also it is NOT illegal to burn a flag. Supreme Court ruled so after someone burned a flag in Texas. But I think this is shady forum rule territory. And Brawler beat me to it. Darnit.

Post by **rickgriffin** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:56 pm

44R0NM10 wrote:I don't quite understand this "4th of July". Why ever would you not want to be part of the British Empire? You're not still sour about taxes, are you? You've been celebrating this day for centuries.

On this matter...you don't mind me asking about the american flag, right? Do you really have it in every classroom in schools? Is it really against the law to burn the flag? Do you...all love this flag so much?

Oh right, the question...I'll be playing computer games, if not finishing my homework. I have school the next day after all.

Okay I think I have to chime in on this this

1) It is an American trait to hate foreign taxes, which is odd because America currently taxes income earned overseas, while no other country does this. As for the Revolutionary War, since it was the founding of the country of course we'd be celebrating it, silly. I don't believe that it's taught much in Britain, as Britain has a much longer history with a great many more wars, some of which it lost, and the whole America thing is awfully minor in that respect to them. While I am fairly certain that Britain was in the wrong trying to unload taxes onto the people who fled Britain for largely religious purposes, the demonization that the monarchy undergoes when talking about that period in American civics classes is a bit silly.

2) Public schools yes. Not all of them though, just most of them; I don't think that there was a flag in EVERY room of the school when I was in high school, and they're not there at all in private schools and colleges (except for historical reasons)

3) Yes, although as was stated, it is no longer a criminal offense. I am pretty sure it's still looked down on though and can be construed as hate speech if done publicly. The reason that they're burned by officials is because a long while ago it was decided that the flag should not end up in a landfill where someone might *gasp* PHOTOGRAPH it. Also I was taught as a kid that you're not supposed to let the flag touch the ground until it's been folded up. I'm pretty sure that's not a criminal offense, just part of the etiquette surrounding it.

4) I think this is pretty silly. It's a piece of cloth after all. Though this is because I was a little bitter that when I was in Boy Scouts I had to stand through a flag burning ceremony and I was all like, man let me have that worn out flag because a worn out flag actually would look awesome hanging on a wall. But noooooo.

America's a pretty nice place though.

Vadiant · Post by **Vadiant** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:06 pm

Now y'see, when I was a kid, my dad told me it was illegal to ever let the flag touch the ground, much less burn it. Now, imagine my horror as a kid to get a flag at a 4th of July parade and realize I could never put it down again. Granted, I came up with a lot of VERY creative ideas that kept it from touching the ground for a while, but still, my dad laughed when he found out what was going on. ... My dad's a jerk sometimes.

Oh and, plans for the holiday! I will be watching the fireworks from my rooftop. Ah, the perks of living on top of a hill less than 5 minutes away from where the fireworks are going off.

Liam · Post by **Liam** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:54 pm

rickgriffin wrote:While I am fairly certain that Britain was in the wrong trying to unload taxes onto the people who fled Britain for largely religious purposes, the demonization that the monarchy undergoes when talking about that period in American civics classes is a bit silly.

Well, they did send combat troops after the Colonies demanded representation in the decisional process for taxation, which dissolved local governments and imposed direct rule by Royal officials.

A military answer by the Americans to taxes draining their last cent as well as severe political and military oppresion was inevitable.

zeekgenateer · Post by **zeekgenateer** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:00 pm

Basically history taught up through High Schools is all posturing. XYZ groups were evil because we fought them. I know a friend who likes to say everyone hated wilson back in the day. Never checked up on that one though.

44R0NM10 · Post by **44R0NM10** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:16 pm

Well...thanks for answering my questions. Maybe it's because I'm not the right nationality, but I'm never going to understand your flag, sorry.

Maybe it's just because of how weird our flag is. BBC radio had an entire discussion about what does it say about you if you 'fly the England flag'. I'm not sure if you guys use the term 'chav', but it's basically an insult for people who listen to N-dubz and wear tracky bottoms and are very, very ignorant. Well, that's what it seems to have become. The St George flag is reduced to people like this, and the other people won't fly it because they don't want to look like this.

Weird place, aye?

Still, happy fourth of July! Enjoy yourselves!

Dusty · Post by **Dusty** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:08 pm

Liam wrote:
rickgriffin wrote:While I am fairly certain that Britain was in the wrong trying to unload taxes onto the people who fled Britain for largely religious purposes, the demonization that the monarchy undergoes when talking about that period in American civics classes is a bit silly.
Well, they did send combat troops after the Colonies demanded representation in the decisional process for taxation, which dissolved local governments and imposed direct rule by Royal officials.

A military answer by the Americans to taxes draining their last cent as well as severe political and military oppresion was inevitable.

Except the colonies were paying less then HALF of the taxes they would have if they still lived in England. Also for most of the founding the fathers Representation was not a very good goal, the number of votes the colonies would have gotten in parliament would have been minuscule so the British could just keep raising taxes over the votes of the colonies and the colonies would have no real footing to base an argument on.

And Americans just hate taxes. Period.

AP US History sure is an eye opener compared to normal US History.

Typhon · Post by **Typhon** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:38 pm

44R0NM10 wrote:I don't quite understand this "4th of July". Why ever would you not want to be part of the British Empire? You're not still sour about taxes, are you? You've been celebrating this day for centuries.

On this matter...you don't mind me asking about the american flag, right? Do you really have it in every classroom in schools? Is it really against the law to burn the flag? Do you...all love this flag so much?

Oh right, the question...I'll be playing computer games, if not finishing my homework. I have school the next day after all.

No, it is not illegal to burn the US flag. Lots of people have the pre-conceived notion that only the Boy Scouts of America and the military can properly dispose the US flag by burning but that is not true. An US citizen (or an illegal too if you think about it) can burn the US flag if it is no longer fitting to be put on display like if it was torn or battered. Also, if the flag is dirty, or touches the ground it doesn't need to be burned. Just clean it up and raise it higher that's all. The whole ZOMG it touched the ground quickly grab a match and some lighter fluid is silly. (after sitting through tons of flag burning ceremonies as a Boy Scout i finally did some research on this).

ctcmjh · Post by **ctcmjh** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:07 pm

Typhon wrote:
44R0NM10 wrote:I don't quite understand this "4th of July". Why ever would you not want to be part of the British Empire? You're not still sour about taxes, are you? You've been celebrating this day for centuries.

On this matter...you don't mind me asking about the american flag, right? Do you really have it in every classroom in schools? Is it really against the law to burn the flag? Do you...all love this flag so much?

Oh right, the question...I'll be playing computer games, if not finishing my homework. I have school the next day after all.
No, it is not illegal to burn the US flag. Lots of people have the pre-conceived notion that only the Boy Scouts of America and the military can properly dispose the US flag by burning but that is not true. An US citizen (or an illegal too if you think about it) can burn the US flag if it is no longer fitting to be put on display like if it was torn or battered. Also, if the flag is dirty, or touches the ground it doesn't need to be burned. Just clean it up and raise it higher that's all. The whole ZOMG it touched the ground quickly grab a match and some lighter fluid is silly. (after sitting through tons of flag burning ceremonies as a Boy Scout i finally did some research on this).

MY SCOUTMASTER LIED TO ME!! I'M GONNA DROP HIM ON THE FLOOR AND GRAB A MATCH AND LIGHTER FLUID!!!

Typhon · Post by **Typhon** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:51 pm

ctcmjh wrote:
Typhon wrote:
44R0NM10 wrote:I don't quite understand this "4th of July". Why ever would you not want to be part of the British Empire? You're not still sour about taxes, are you? You've been celebrating this day for centuries.

On this matter...you don't mind me asking about the american flag, right? Do you really have it in every classroom in schools? Is it really against the law to burn the flag? Do you...all love this flag so much?

Oh right, the question...I'll be playing computer games, if not finishing my homework. I have school the next day after all.
No, it is not illegal to burn the US flag. Lots of people have the pre-conceived notion that only the Boy Scouts of America and the military can properly dispose the US flag by burning but that is not true. An US citizen (or an illegal too if you think about it) can burn the US flag if it is no longer fitting to be put on display like if it was torn or battered. Also, if the flag is dirty, or touches the ground it doesn't need to be burned. Just clean it up and raise it higher that's all. The whole ZOMG it touched the ground quickly grab a match and some lighter fluid is silly. (after sitting through tons of flag burning ceremonies as a Boy Scout i finally did some research on this).
MY SCOUTMASTER LIED TO ME!! I'M GONNA DROP HIM ON THE FLOOR AND GRAB A MATCH AND LIGHTER FLUID!!!

Lol, alot of Boyscout leaders will tell you those little myths. Maybe because they never bothered to research it themselves

NoelL · Post by **NoelL** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:27 pm

I'm... going to work!

Woo!

Post by **Dissension** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:38 pm

If I had a job, I'd probably be working. As it is, I'm probably going to the community fireworks display with Mom.

The Game · Post by **The Game** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:39 pm

I don't know....prolly planning a party, going swimming, and seeing fireworks...

Liam · Post by **Liam** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:57 am

Dusty wrote:Except the colonies were paying less then HALF of the taxes they would have if they still lived in England.

That was a numbers trick played by one british aristocrat to hide the fact the additional taxes were a heavy burden for everyone, especially the poor.

Also for most of the founding the fathers Representation was not a very good goal, the number of votes the colonies would have gotten in parliament would have been minuscule so the British could just keep raising taxes over the votes of the colonies and the colonies would have no real footing to base an argument on.

There's a difference between representation (which could have been expanded over the years) and no representation with ever new taxes just to prove Americans are mere pawns to Royal caprice and the dispatch of troops to shoot everybody who rejects this system.

sliceofdog · Post by **sliceofdog** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:09 am

As the only Brit here (I think), I do feel the need to remind all the Americans here that in escaping British rule, you began a horrific massacre of a native people who have never since recovered and are still subjugated to this day ^^

Certainly Britain was wrong in the way it tried to conquer the world. However, please don't see this as black and white. If the first Americans were truly about freedom, why did they slaughter the Native Americans? If they were supporting religious freedom (As opposed to simply wanting to push their own religion, which was not shared by Britain) why did they chase the Mormons and other Christian offshoots across the entire country? And if they were about equality how come they kept slaves long after Britain had stopped, and even had an entire war because half the country didn't want to stop slavery?

British empire = Very mean and lots of oppression.
Early USA =/= The good guys.

I have no real problem with you celebrating the 4th of July. Like a couple of you said, it's a celebration of the founding of the nation. However, don't see it as a holiday about good beating evil, because neither of those things really exist.

Post by **rickgriffin** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:56 am

sliceofdog wrote:Certainly Britain was wrong in the way it tried to conquer the world.

There you go.

I don't think I have to remind you of the British policy in India to set the Hindus against the Muslims so that they wouldn't be able to unite and drive the British out. If you want answers to the other questions . . . what are you nuts? Do you think ANY country has actually always "played fair" in terms of controlling its culture and territory? Wasn't there this whole mass slaughter of protestants in England when Mary took the throne? Haven't you had more than one civil war? Yes, it sucks. And no, just because someone is bigger doesn't mean that the underdog was automatically kind and gentle either--don't whitewash the past for either side.

The moment you try to aggregate any group of people into "good" or "evil" you're going to find that the "evil" side comes up more often than you want it to, even though there may have been plenty of good people trying to do the right thing at the time. It's almost a purposeless exercise to objectively declare the good guys and the bad guys apart from a present, overarching conflict.

Not that there's not good and evil . . . but it doesn't equate into economics style charts. If you try and measure the motions of a large number of people and invest in them as being good or evil based on one or even MORE events, then you're going to be disappointed when it suddenly changes up. Similarly, you can't just tally up the "evil deeds" one one side and the "good deeds" on the other when you're talking about a LOT OF PEOPLE. Most of which are DEAD, and most of which had nothing to do with the decisions being made. You can't just blanket a whole mess of decisions at one time and say "some people involved were either evil or indifferent, therefore you're ALL the bad guys". All that you can do is try to make the right choice when YOUR decisions come to you.

So yes everyone has dirty laundry, we don't need to talk about stuff like this.

Dr. Prower · Post by **Dr. Prower** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:01 am

rickgriffin wrote:
sliceofdog wrote:Certainly Britain was wrong in the way it tried to conquer the world.
There you go.

I don't think I have to remind you of the British policy in India to set the Hindus against the Muslims so that they wouldn't be able to unite and drive the British out. So drop the subject; every country has their dirty laundry.

Well if they have dirty laundry, they should wash it. Use some Tide and warm water.

...what?