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Discussion: Video Games 
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
@Grey- Nuuuuu I hate it there now. I'm no longer desensitized to Yankee culture and frigid weather.

The Mario and Pokemon games are definitely givens. I refuse to buy Pikmin though. Any suggestions that aren't obviously Nintendo?

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Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:43 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
As far as GameCube goes, I definitely recommend The Resident Evil series if you like horror games. Especially Resident Evil 1 and 4. =3

the sonic and Megaman collections are my personal favourites. Digimon Rumble Arena was nice,too. Luigi's Mansion was short, but well worth it i find. Fun to show friends too :D

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Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:13 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
GameCobra wrote:
As far as GameCube goes, I definitely recommend The Resident Evil series if you like horror games. Especially Resident Evil 1 and 4. =3

the sonic and Megaman collections are my personal favourites. Digimon Rumble Arena was nice,too. Luigi's Mansion was short, but well worth it i find. Fun to show friends too :D


Oh God, Resident Evil on the PS2 was bad enough. ._.
"Hey, I'mma go hide in this shed!" *Dead body hanging from noose in ceiling.*

I'll have to look into the sonic games and Megaman games. I had a sonic game for the PC as a kid and it was just the best thing.

Also, ermahgerd I love Digimon. :V

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Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:27 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Beagle wrote:
The Mario and Pokemon games are definitely givens. I refuse to buy Pikmin though. Any suggestions that aren't obviously Nintendo?

The GameCube has a fantastic library of games.
Here are some of the best ones:

• Animal Crossing
• Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix
• Digimon World 4
• Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
• Kirby Air Ride
• Legend of Zelda: Windwaker, The
• Legend of Zelda: Collector's Edition, The
• Luigi's Mansion
• Mario Kart: Double Dash
• Mario Party 4 - 7
• Metroid Prime 1 & 2
• Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door
• Pokemon Colosseum
• Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness
• Sonic Adventure DX
• Sonic Adventure 2: Battle
• Star Fox Adventures
• Star Fox Assault
• Super Mario Sunshine
• Super Monkey Ball 1 & 2
• Super Smash Bros Melee
• Tales of Symphonia
• Viewtiful Joe 1 & 2
• Wario Ware: Mega Party Game$

I wholly recommend any of the games on that list.
Most of the best games are from Nintendo, but there are some treasures like Tales of Symphonia in the mix.
I also recommend the Pikmin games to anyone else looking to find hidden gems in the Gamecube library.

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Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:43 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Ahh, I forgot Fire Emblem was for the GameCube. My best friend owns that, plus the Legend of Zelda games, plus the Pokemon ones, plus the Mario ones.

Star Fox and Tales of Symphonia are the "new" ones that I'll have to look into buying for myself. I also loved Digimon World 1 for the PS1, so I'll have to check out Digimon World 4 for the 'Cube.

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Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:53 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Esquire Fox wrote:
Beagle wrote:
The Mario and Pokemon games are definitely givens. I refuse to buy Pikmin though. Any suggestions that aren't obviously Nintendo?

The GameCube has a fantastic library of games.
Here are some of the best ones:

• Animal Crossing
• Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix
• Digimon World 4
• Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
• Kirby Air Ride
• Legend of Zelda: Windwaker, The
• Legend of Zelda: Collector's Edition, The
• Luigi's Mansion
• Mario Kart: Double Dash
• Mario Party 4 - 7
• Metroid Prime 1 & 2
• Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door
• Pokemon Colosseum
• Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness
• Sonic Adventure DX
• Sonic Adventure 2: Battle
• Star Fox Adventures
• Star Fox Assault
• Super Mario Sunshine
• Super Monkey Ball 1 & 2
• Super Smash Bros Melee
• Tales of Symphonia
• Viewtiful Joe 1 & 2
• Wario Ware: Mega Party Game$

I wholly recommend any of the games on that list.
Most of the best games are from Nintendo, but there are some treasures like Tales of Symphonia in the mix.
I also recommend the Pikmin games to anyone else looking to find hidden gems in the Gamecube library.
I consider DDR: Mario Mix one of the worst DDR games. I found the Gamecube and Wii Fire Emblems worse than the portable ones, but that's just me. They're still really good. Kirby's Air Ride isn't very good unless you play City Trial, which needs friends. Mario Party similarly needs friends, and I don't consider them as good as 2 was. I can 100% get behind Sonic Adventure DX. That game was great. Star Fox Adventures was alright, but Star Fox Assault is actually a lot better than it got credit for. I enjoyed it. Super Monkey Ball games are darn fun, and I loved Tales of Symphonia. It's a bit dated, but there's a great game underneath the rust.

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Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:20 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
So apparently WindWaker is gonna be on the WiiU in HD, some pics: http://imgur.com/a/yei05

(I haven't played it, but I figured some people here might want to know)

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Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:10 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Sleet wrote:
I consider DDR: Mario Mix one of the worst DDR games.

Mario Mix isn't really made for enthusiasts of the DDR series. It is made with newcomers in mind. The hardest difficulty settings barely scrape the normal setting on most other DDR games. Instead, what you get is a relaxed DDR experience with memorable remixes of classic Mario tunes. You even get a goofy story mode to go along with the songs and backgrounds. You can't really compare that to the other games in the series, which mainly focus on skill, challenge, and J-Pop (lots of J-Pop).

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Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:51 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Star Fox ADventures was one of my favourites for the GameCube. Despite what people say, It was one of the rare games out there where I could literally enjoy walking around as Fox and listening to music while adventuring all day. I just wish it wasn't so stale.

Digimon World 4 was good, but it noticably gets better with friends. There's also Megaman Command Mission, which was very decent for the Cube.

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Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:15 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Star Fox Adventure would be much better-received if it weren't a Star Fox game. It was perfectly good at what it was trying to be (a Zelda clone) but people were disappointed from the start that it wasn't a proper Star Fox game.

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Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:23 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
But see, here's the thing that bothers me ~ Star Fox Adventures turned out for me to be a beautiful game and with beautiful art and music and it did feel like it was better with the Star Fox franchize added to it. It was different, but it was a good different. It just felt like it went wrong with the story and gameplay segations. If the gameplay didn't feel so Zeldaish, limited (Give Fox the fire blaster and Krystal the staff, for example. Heck, the staff even mimics a blaster once it gets it's first ability) and didn't end so cut-and-paste like it did, I feel it would've been a marvelous game in it's own rights and something every fan would love to see more often. If they wanted to Zelda-clone the gameplay, Krystal would've fit Link fine with just the staff, but let Fox do his own thing.

I just feel like Adventures gets too much thrown ontop of what it was for what it was meant to be. When Rare and Nintendo decided to mix two games into one, It didn't sound bad at first. I was expecting Fox to be the shooter and Krystal to be the meleer and switching sides between the two and exploring a planet with the two of them doing missions together. Like Nintendo and Rare working together. You should say the disappointment in the game was that whatever plans was made with the game was ditched in favor for the Nintendo tradition of gaming and we got the Zelda-clone of the series it was, but it felt so much better when you thought of it beforehand.

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Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:43 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Beagle wrote:
@Grey- Nuuuuu I hate it there now. I'm no longer desensitized to Yankee culture and frigid weather.

Nuuuu! But, there are nice dogs here! And I am here!

Pikmen was something I never got in any way, there's worse stuff out there, but the idea was just really WTF inducing.

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Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:43 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
GameCobra wrote:
But see, here's the thing that bothers me ~ Star Fox Adventures turned out for me to be a beautiful game and with beautiful art and music and it did feel like it was better with the Star Fox franchize added to it. It was different, but it was a good different. It just felt like it went wrong with the story and gameplay segations. If the gameplay didn't feel so Zeldaish, limited (Give Fox the fire blaster and Krystal the staff, for example. Heck, the staff even mimics a blaster once it gets it's first ability) and didn't end so cut-and-paste like it did, I feel it would've been a marvelous game in it's own rights and something every fan would love to see more often. If they wanted to Zelda-clone the gameplay, Krystal would've fit Link fine with just the staff, but let Fox do his own thing.

I just feel like Adventures gets too much thrown ontop of what it was for what it was meant to be. When Rare and Nintendo decided to mix two games into one, It didn't sound bad at first. I was expecting Fox to be the shooter and Krystal to be the meleer and switching sides between the two and exploring a planet with the two of them doing missions together. Like Nintendo and Rare working together. You should say the disappointment in the game was that whatever plans was made with the game was ditched in favor for the Nintendo tradition of gaming and we got the Zelda-clone of the series it was, but it felt so much better when you thought of it beforehand.
They should've just let Rare do what they wanted to, without involving Nintendo.

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Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:08 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Radiant Dawn was the Fire Emblem game on Wii; the one on Gamecube was Path of Radiance. Fantastic game, regardless.

On the topic of Star Fox Adventures: I'm very glad I never played the original Star Fox game(s). I see so many people who rag on the game because it wasn't "a real Star Fox game", most of whom never actually played the game purely on those grounds. And that really bums me out, honestly, because Dinosaur Planet was (along with Super Mario Sunshine and SSB:M) one of the most pivotal games of my childhood. I played the heeeeeck outta that game; beat it at least half a dozen times.

It was a pretty good game in its own right, and the fact so many people are blinded by their fanaticism for "real" Star Fox games to see that is just a darn shame. (Speaking in general here; not to anyone in this thread.)

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Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:28 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
KJOokami wrote:
Radiant Dawn was the Fire Emblem game on Wii; the one on Gamecube was Path of Radiance. Fantastic game, regardless.

On the topic of Star Fox Adventures: I'm very glad I never played the original Star Fox game(s). I see so many people who rag on the game because it wasn't "a real Star Fox game", most of whom never actually played the game purely on those grounds. And that really bums me out, honestly, because Dinosaur Planet was (along with Super Mario Sunshine and SSB:M) one of the most pivotal games of my childhood. I played the heeeeeck outta that game; beat it at least half a dozen times.

It was a pretty good game in its own right, and the fact so many people are blinded by their fanaticism for "real" Star Fox games to see that is just a darn shame. (Speaking in general here; not to anyone in this thread.)

I grew up with Star Fox 64, so it took me a while to get used to Star Fox Adventures. After a while it became one of my favorites for the GameCube and I've beat it about four times.
Star Fox Assault was also fun, but I felt it was too short and easy. The multiplayer was fun though.

Has anybody here ever beat Star Fox 64? I've heard that there are extra bits if you kill enough enemies to get the badge thing on the planet. I've only got like four or five of those.

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Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:20 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
I bought Star Fox 64 for the Wii with my Wii points. Had some fun playing it and didn't beat it yet thanks to some controls not properly making it over to the Wii joystick i find. Admittedly, it feels outdated for me now, but I'm enjoying the conversations. :D

Sleet wrote:
They should've just let Rare do what they wanted to, without involving Nintendo.


Which pretty much sums up the game, really. Getting the license for Star Fox was fine, but some of the things done to the game were just giving Star Fox Adventures a bad name.

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Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:25 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
It looks like we got some big news from Nintendo yesterday.

They announced a lot of fantastic titles for the Wii U:

New Yoshi's Island (Kirby's Epic Yarn style)
New 3D Mario, Smash Bros, Mario Kart
New Zelda game (no images yet)
Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem
Xenoblade Chronicles Sequel
Legend of Zelda: Windwaker HD Remake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... MzG6lDA1A0

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Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:59 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
The Smash Bros game coming out is REALLY tempting, as well as a Fire Emblem / SMT crossover (how that would work I have no idea...).

However, there has to be a Metroid for me to really want the system, :V

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Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:50 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Somethign on the same level of super metroid for me. I didn't mind Prime, but i need something in the same epic story level and gameplay as Super Metroid for me. <3

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Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:44 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Nintendo just announced freaking everything amazing. A new 3D Mario game (hopefully a full flagship one like Galaxy was rather than 3D Land), Smash Bros., Yoshi's Island...

And I really need to get around to Xenoblade Chronicles at some point. I've heard it's good.
KJOokami wrote:
Radiant Dawn was the Fire Emblem game on Wii; the one on Gamecube was Path of Radiance. Fantastic game, regardless.

On the topic of Star Fox Adventures: I'm very glad I never played the original Star Fox game(s). I see so many people who rag on the game because it wasn't "a real Star Fox game", most of whom never actually played the game purely on those grounds. And that really bums me out, honestly, because Dinosaur Planet was (along with Super Mario Sunshine and SSB:M) one of the most pivotal games of my childhood. I played the heeeeeck outta that game; beat it at least half a dozen times.

It was a pretty good game in its own right, and the fact so many people are blinded by their fanaticism for "real" Star Fox games to see that is just a darn shame. (Speaking in general here; not to anyone in this thread.)
I had put aside my preconceived notions about SFA and I still didn't consider it stellar. Granted, this was after I had played Twilight Princess and Okami so I was a bit spoiled. It was good, at least.

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Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:49 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
I like to see the new line-up they have for the new smash brothers at least. Always loved the Smash Brothers series, even if i haven't had time to play it %100. I'm also curious if Snake and Sonic will return? Doubtful, but replacements would be a even more interesting choice.

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Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:59 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
I think they should put Snake back in, but just work on his attacks a bit, they seemed a bit to slow, especially the guided rocket, that didn't even seem to deal a lot of damage. And that's the thing I never got, Snake isn't supposed to be using tons of mines, and rockets, he used pistols and knives, maybe those aren't too kid friendly, but neither is Metal Gear Solid. I dunno, I say either make him somewhat like he is in the games, you know, fast and agile with some decent gear, or leave him out.

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Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:31 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Sleet wrote:
I had put aside my preconceived notions about SFA and I still didn't consider it stellar. Granted, this was after I had played Twilight Princess and Okami so I was a bit spoiled. It was good, at least.

Oh, absolutely. It wasn't an incredible game. I'll be the first to admit that I'm biased because of nostalgia, but it's still sad how many people won't even give the game a chance simply on the grounds that "It's not a real Star Fox game."

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Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:53 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
angelusbr wrote:
Did anyone else play Jade cocoon?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfqbDSfw9_Y
It's pretty much a pokemonish game where you can fuse the monsters you capture giving them body parts and powers that the originals had.

I'm sorry to go back a page but I had to bring this up...
OMG JADE COCOON OMG SOMEONE ELSE ACTUALLY KNOWS ABOUT IT!!!
Jade Cocoon was one of those games I played as a kid that I loved so much but no-one else knew it and so whenever someone says they know it it induces a combination of intense nostalgia and instantaneous friendship. Klonoa's the same, I loved that game to death.

I recently got a Gamecube myself so I can only recommend what others have recommended which is pretty much what's listed above, but one I'm particularly looking for is the Megaman Anniversary Collection. It has the first eight original Megaman games and I've only ever seen it for Gamecube, but since getting a gamecube I haven't found it anywhere! Just the way, huh?

I don't know if I'll get the WiiU, not because it doesn't look good, the games lineup looks great, but I rarely buy non-portable consoles. If anything jumps out as being particularly great, I'll consider it, although a new Yoshi's Island is pretty tempting...

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Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:35 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
I really hope the next Smash Bros is more like Melee. I watched Apex a bit go and man Melee and Brawl next to eachother look like entirely different games.
For comparison sake


Melee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOED1FCWT6Q&list=PLfsHddFGhhKh4Xu_rMP1n_QIZhyRzqO8G&index=58

Brawl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBGffJfBkd0&list=PLfsHddFGhhKh4Xu_rMP1n_QIZhyRzqO8G&index=81

Melee is just so much faster.

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Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:41 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
It seems they're more focusing on making a party game than making a competitive one, but I wish they'd make the game flexible enough for both. I love all the features and crazy stuff in Brawl, but Melee's combat mechanics were smoother. I wish they could just try to appease both playstyles.

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Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:04 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Meh. Aside from the fact I don't think Meta Knight should exist as a character, I thought the clips of Brawl there -- though slower-paced -- were far more engaging than any Melee match I've ever seen.

The problem with Melee, from a viewer's standpoint, is that it's just too fast. Unless you're good enough to be able to pull off all that stuff those guys were doing, there's no way to really follow the match. And that just makes for a really dull showing.

Personally, I don't really care which way they lean, as I greatly enjoyed both games. I played Melee from 6th to 9th grade and Brawl from 10th to 12th, and I played with mostly all of the same people through that time (adding a few new friends as time went on). And as far as I'm concerned, the people I play with will continue to trump the specifics of the game mechanics.

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Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:59 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Meta Knight is a great character. They just should've toned his power down a bit.

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Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:25 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Power should've been toned down, the priority of the majority of his attacks should've been toned down, at least one of his moves should have been completely re-worked (the unstoppable vortex of spam). He was just a broken character.

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Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:44 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Nyaliva wrote:
angelusbr wrote:
Did anyone else play Jade cocoon?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfqbDSfw9_Y
It's pretty much a pokemonish game where you can fuse the monsters you capture giving them body parts and powers that the originals had.

I'm sorry to go back a page but I had to bring this up...
OMG JADE COCOON OMG SOMEONE ELSE ACTUALLY KNOWS ABOUT IT!!!
Jade Cocoon was one of those games I played as a kid that I loved so much but no-one else knew it and so whenever someone says they know it it induces a combination of intense nostalgia and instantaneous friendship. Klonoa's the same, I loved that game to death.

I've been thinking of replaying this game. I barely remember the story. All I remember is that I spent hours trying to get the right fusions for my monster to have wings. And that the villagers are turned to stone at some point

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Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:03 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
So, I played Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn yesterday for about 2 hours or so, its kinda okay, just didn't like the people in it. Apparently they start to get more interesting, and I don't get the appeal of the combat, it kinda like rock paper scissors, and I think that's silly.

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Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:51 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
@Esquire Fox-
So I had some time to look through the GameCube games, and I'm definitely going to look into Star Fox Adventures, the Sonic Adventure games, and Digimon World 4 as games I would have to specifically buy since my friends don't own the games. I am actually pretty sure I have already played Star Fox Adventures before, but this was with a friend in Massachusetts. Either way, I liked it! The other games I can borrow from my two friends.

I don't like racing games or RPGs that involve turn-based fighting (with the exception of Pokemon and Digimon). Turned-based fighting just takes too dang long. That's why I'd rather borrow them from my friends than buy them myself.

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^This guy.

I've also made up my mind that I'm going to find a midnight release of Pokemon X & Y and go to it. I've never been to a midnight release of anything, mainly because I've only recently been old enough (think a span of two years) to do late-night things without a parent driving.

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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
So Ni no Kuni, Wrath of the White Witch finally arrived, and... it got me off-guard at how surprisingly fun it is! o3o

The mechanics are almost reminiscent to good 'ol classic JRPGS, and the visuals remind me of something that Miyazaki would most definitely pull off. For what the game's presented so far, it's one that definitely deserves praise, and should be given a chance. =)


...Also, I'm ashamed to not have participated in this thread. X_x;;

-Walks shamefully to the Corner of Shame-

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Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:45 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
According to Tycho of Penny Arcade, it's basically a typical JRPG but it's very good at what it is.

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Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:42 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
I was sold on Ni No Kuni the second I saw it was something Studio Ghibli worked on. "Spirited Away" remains my favourite movie of all time, and a game based off that movie's graphics?
Like I said: instantly sold. And they delivered in spades. I love when the game goes full anime, and even when they're not full anime but in cutscene format, the graphics are still incredible. It's just pure win during the full anime segments, though. Such lovable characters...

It took me a while to get the battle mechanics down, but now I'm able to seamlessly transfer between my Familiars and bosses are no longer that much of a threat (granted they still kick my tail every now and then... and come outta freakin' NOWHERE. Seriously, I am very bad at healing when I first get to a town, so I continue the story, no magic left... and BOOM, Boss fight. I'd be waaay farther back than I currently am if it weren't for Gold Glims). X3


Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:39 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
I've been playing Anarchy reigns for like this whole month. It has been the funnest game I've picked up in a long time. Basically taking beat'em up gameplay and then putting it online.

Mostly playing battle royal which amounts to "put 16 people on a map and tell them to beat each other up". I love how it basically tells you to approach with combat pragmatism sometimes. It pretty much tells you to kill steal (of course it's free for all why wouldn't you).
Also the sweet rap soundtrack which is basically like a hype version of madworld's soundtrack.

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Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:33 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
OK i'm a little off topic but is anyone else waiting to play the PC game The Elder Scrolls online? I applied for the beta test last night and i'm hoping to get a spot so that I may get a sneak-peek at what they've been cooking up. As of right now it is looking to be quite the undertaking and i'll be excited to see if everything works out the way Bethesda says it will.

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Last edited by Duster on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:32 am
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Duster wrote:
OK i'm a little off topic but is anyone else waiting to play the PC game The Elder Scrolls online? I applied for the closed beta last night and i'm hoping to get a spot so that I may get a sneak-peek at what they've been cooking up. As of right now it is looking to be quite the undertaking and i'll be excited to see if everything works out the way Bethesda says it will.

Closed Beta? Huh, didn't know they were at that stage of development. TES is a series in which I only really understand the story of one game (Skyrim), but it still interests me nonetheless. I'll go have a look around Google for the application for the Closed Beta.


Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:41 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
Duster wrote:
OK i'm a little off topic but is anyone else waiting to play the PC game The Elder Scrolls online? I applied for the closed beta last night and i'm hoping to get a spot so that I may get a sneak-peek at what they've been cooking up. As of right now it is looking to be quite the undertaking and i'll be excited to see if everything works out the way Bethesda says it will.


Not that far off topic. I posted it last page =)

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Also ~ If you're a PC gamer like me ~ Elder Scrolls Online Beta! We should totally make a guild of Argonians

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Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:56 pm
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Post Re: Discussion: Video Games
I would be interested in trying out the Elder Scrolls Online beta, but with it being a closed beta, I really don't see much chance of me getting in. My only MMO experience is a couple years of casual WoW play, and my computer is absolutely dreadful at running games of any kind.

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Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:17 am
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