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PF: Haven OOC 
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Post PF: Haven OOC
Hello. I'm caelei and I'll be your hostess tonight. ((<--lame, but best way to start this off, right?)) ^^'
Welcome to the officially unofficial (or unofficially official, perhaps?) Haven OOC. Regardless, this is currently a less-than-official OOC, since Haven itself is a less-than-official RP. Everybody who's interested, please post your ideas, likes/dislikes about the premise of the RP, and anything else here!

To get us started, I'd like to say that Haven is an atypical Pet Friendly.
It will not have the usual neighborhood setup, i.e. pets and owners as family-groups, all arranged into a community-type neighborhood.

Currently, the setting of Haven is a smallish portion of a rather large forest. The forest (yet to be named) is located somewhat nearby a few big cities, a mountain, a lake, etc. (I'll probably draw something up for a map later on so you all have some idea of what I'm talking about, so don't worry!) As for locations in the "real world," it would be somewhere in the northeastern California/southeastern Oregon area (just as a vague idea).
Haven's occupants are not necessarily pets. In fact, many of them (at the beginning of the RP, specifically) will be wild animals, ferals, or ex-pets (strays, y'know, runaways). Haven is not meant to function as a regular RP. There will most likely never be any human citizens in Haven. Haven is intended to be, if everything goes as planned, a human-less animal society. Like a city, with only animal occupants. No owners. Currently no houses. A lot of freedom, and thus a lot of things to do.

The most unique quality of Haven is that Haven itself will not be set up before the RP begins. That means that it'll be up to RP'ers to do just that. Build the community, build houses and new lives, relationships, you name it. Whatever you can think of. Want to live in a nearby cave? Fine! Want to go to the city, find some scraps and build a house in a tree? Go ahead! Haven is yours to compose.

That being said, there is one other thing. A premise of Haven (or what Haven will be in the future) will be posted below. It will be blacked-out in case someone doesn't want excessive spoilers and just wants to go with the flow. Members of the RP will have an initiative that they should work together to achieve. (Though of course not everybody has to participate in the initiatives if they don't want to, or at all; you are still free to do your own thing, like in any other RP, whenever you like). These initiatives, in short, will be like a loose schedule. When the idea of Haven was first generated, there was a certain way that it was intended to turn out, and the initiatives will be like steps in that process. As such, there is a set of guidelines that Haven, as a developing RP, will most likely follow (though of course there can be some differences, that will be encouraged!). For instance, the beginning operative on the "calendar" will be to get the RP rolling, and perhaps to send the first group of animal activists into the city to raise awareness, or something similar.

Below is a copy of the rough outline of Haven. Feel free to read or pass it by as preferred. (If people think it should be un-spoilered, then I'll undo it.)

Character names mentioned, such as Magnus, Pavelle and Felix all belong to me, and are my characters in RV. I don't believe it is necessary, but if you want to read their character sheets, then they are here and here.
Mr. and Mrs. Nelson are just Mag, Pavelle's owners/parents.
Griffon was a guest character I created for RV as well. He was the leader of a group of ferals who abducted pets from Richardson Valley as recruits for his anti-human feral camp. His character sheet was just some thrown-together whatever, but I'll post it here, and his physical description is in this post, the last paragraph.
EDIT: His new character sheet is here.

Anywho, here's the whole shebang. And boy, does it look absolutely terrifying with all the black lines stacked one on the other. ^^'

Pavelle, Magnus, and their parents are forced to temporarily leave RV seeking better medical aid for Mrs. Nelson, whose condition has suddenly worsened. (I'm assuming during this time either Pavelle lost her jobs or subs were hired to hold her place while she was away; the Nelson house sits dormant.)

Unfortunately, Mrs. Nelson passes away shortly after they leave (perhaps a week or so). Mr. Nelson turns to Magnus and his family for comfort and support. Pavelle is largely excluded from this. Mr. Nelson has never really understood Pavelle. In fact, seeing her is a constant reminder of his loss and grief. He snaps and tells her to leave. Already alienated and grieving, she finally agrees to go with Felix to her "home" forest, despite her fears.

In the forest, she finds... a family of raccoons, waiting for her and Felix, and who are in desperate need of help and leadership. The raccoons' home is in danger of being demolished by loggers (the reason Felix came to find her in the first place). So...

Pavelle decides to turn activist.
She sends groups of the raccoons into the nearby cities to protest and raise awareness for their cause. Meanwhile...

She hatches a plan to buy the land of the forest and turn it into a reservation for homeless/wayward animals, not just the raccoons. Strays start to join the cause, tempted into the forest by the animal protesters, and the plan expands.

Why not begin to protect the strays of the cities, who have been cast out by humans (like herself), or who disagree with human society and the way things are run? Why not build a haven for animals of every type to live free of the humans who have wronged them?
But she would need manpower to do such a thing. And in a world still governed by humans, she'd need human currency and supplies.

She knows that buying large quantities of land will be expensive. And too many new "recruits" are showing up; there are too many new mouths to be fed by the small amount of land the raccoons had managed to hold onto. But Pavelle can't bear to turn away the new arrivals, not after they left their lifestyle in the cities for the sake of her cause. Until she has the resources to build her Haven, the newbies will have to go somewhere...
And then there is the problem with the violent ferals that have already taken up roots in the forest.

Pavelle decides that she has to reach out to an old enemy... effectively killing two birds with one stone.
To her reason of thought, a known enemy is easier to keep under control than an unknown.
She approaches Grif (I don't know if you remember Griffon?) with a proposition.

After the notorious AC raid, Grif had suffered a loss of nearly half his "camp" and most of his supplies. While he can replace supplies easily enough... soldiers he cannot. And he still had a bone to pick with the humans...

Pavelle's deal is this. The new recruits (the strays from the cities) who agree with her deal will serve terms in Grif's camp. In doing so, they'd learn survival and fighting techniques, learn to function as a community, and also would get the food and attention they needed to survive in an unfamiliar environment. The "loaned" animals would add numbers to Grif's bedraggled camp. With these numbers he could gain some power...
Pavelle gives him leave to attack/overcome/drive away any other feral camps in the forest. The members of those camps could choose to leave or join the cause, and many would choose to join.
In exchange for the power Pavelle offered, Grif would
1.) aid in protection of the forest
2.) provide the necessary "woodland smarts" for new members of her organization
3.) change the quality of his leadership, educating his troops (teaching them to read and write and simple math) and doing away with the savagery and violence in his camp once and for all
Grif agreed.

Together, he and Pavelle start to gain power amongst the animals of the forest, but they still have to gain against the humans.

So, aside from the raccoon protesters, they begin to send out groups of Grif's once-feral pack to scour the cities for any other unhappy/dissatisfied animals, strays or pets.

They begin not only to protest deforestation, protecting the environment, but also protest animal rights, and especially animal cruelty. Animals in unhappy homes/situations are asked to join the cause, and their numbers continue to grow. They also reach out towards the animals of the forest itself, wild animals --bears, deer, rabbits, squirrels, mice, beavers, wildcats, falcons/birds, etc.-- to join. And they start building their numbers up to a point that even people --mainly environmentalists-- believe their cause is a worthy one.
But there is still the question of money.

The answer, in part, comes from a tragedy.
A hunter kills one of Pavelle's recruits (a deer) in the very forest she has come to protect.
Pavelle knows that that will never happen again.

She and Grif organize parties of recruits to detain any hunters on sight. They don't kill or harm the hunters in any way; they merely capture them. Once defenseless, the animals steal their guns, ammo, useful gear, and even their vehicles. Any animals found with hunters are untouched, even if hostile. Hunting dogs (and such) are even invited to join the cause. Some join, others refuse and are given a warning: don't return. Most hunters don't come back to the woods. The monetary loss associated with their "crimes" there is enough to dissuade them to come back again.
And if any of them decided to come back angry... well, by then there would be enough animals in the woods to drive out any hot-headed humans.

The cars that are stolen (this might sound familiar: Pavelle has a tiny bit of experience in such matters...) are scraped for parts or sold, some even back to their unhappy owners for half the price (since who wants to admit to the authorities that they were outsmarted by a bunch'a animals in the woods?). And in this way, Haven begins to gather funds.

Now more and more bands of animals are being sent into the city, but now with different goals entirely. The original protests continue, but the newest objective is to gather knowledge. Even though most of the animals disagree with human society, they know --and Pavelle, more than anyone-- how important human knowledge is. If they are planning to create a Haven to rival a human city, and with only animals citizens... well, they need as much knowledge as possible. The animals in the new groups are the most trusted, loyal, and level-headed of the cause, and they are sent... to intern, much in the way that Pavelle and Ven did at The Wall.

At first they are only allowed in coffeeshops and such. But as the human populace becomes used to the idea, the recruits are allowed into more and more occupations. They intern in libraries (renting books upon books to send to Haven to be read), in electrical and water companies, by architects, in vet clinics (most important), and even in a law firm. Now animals are sent to learn and pass the knowledge back to Haven. And some of them even earn money in this manner, and invaluable connections to sympathetic people who can vouch for Haven and its citizens against the hordes of humans who are frightened/enraged by such an animal organization.

Soon they have enough resources to begin buying. They buy their land and the supplies needed to keep the Haven citizens (hundreds, now) healthy, well-fed, and happy. Animals who want to construct homes are allowed, and those (particularly the wild animals from the forest) are allowed to live freely off the land as they had before, but without threats from humans or attacks by ferals.

And the plan, after all this?
To continue to protest. To gain more and more currency, buy more and more land, and win more and more followers.

Pavelle starts personally going to animal shelters to buy and thus set free any impounded pets. And if people refuse to allow her to do so, she can persuade one of her few human allies to buy them for her, then drive them to Haven if they want to join.
And she begins to set her sights on the zoos, next...
And all of this because she finally agreed to come back to the forest with her brother.

There are no hard feelings toward pets who don't want to join.
Animals and even people are allowed to pass through the forest if they wish, unharmed. Though campers have to pay a "toll," and have to agree to be closely surveilled.

"Who knows? At the pace this... revolution has been moving, perhaps in a couple years the human farmers around the area will live on land owned by Haven, and will pay taxes to Haven, and no longer to the human cities."

"Really, all Haven is is another option for animals. To level the field. The system isn't fair to animals. To have to submit to being a pet, or to leech off human society as a stray, or have to live like some brute in the sticks and mud as a feral. Haven is just offering something else."


Okay. I've already given this exact outline of Haven to a few other rp'ers, and heard their views on it. If they want to post here what they said before so that others can hear it, that's great! If anyone has thought of any suggestions or anything, post it here! Haven is a big work in progress, that's kinda the entire point of the RP, building something! So feel free to share.

Just some issues people have brought up before:
1.) Attacking the hunters is not realistic
2.) The general dangers for the animals involved. Like... humans being threatened by Haven and such a dominant group of animals, etc.
3.) The pets might not be able to get jobs in the cities
4.) Land ownership by animals

Things like that. It'd be good to discuss them here, or set up times here to discuss them elsewhere (Skype, or IRC or some such).
Just saying, there will probably be a lot of NPC's in this board, pets who have come to Haven to live who aren't actual characters made by people, or humans in the cities, or the wild animals off in the woods, or members of Grif's pack. But I don't think that'll be a big issue.
Also, remember that my characters (I think) are the only ones mentioned in the outline because I didn't know who else would want to be involved. Any character personality can be merged into this plan (though I'd have to say that it is a rather realistic roleplay, so please tone down the temptation to use magic powers and such, as they don't fit in much).

And... erm. That's about it? I've probably forgotten something, and will add it on later. Hopefully all my babbling isn't too confusing. If there are any questions, feel free to ask!

So, yeah. That was Haven. Thanks for reading! ^^ Hopefully this board won't completely flop!
If you need any more information, please feel free to PM me, or just ask on this board!

EDIT:
Things like character template, forum rules, etc. here. The link is to the Main OOC. I imagine everybody here knows of it, but in case in the future we have really new members joining this, there it is.
I'll hopefully design a vague map of Haven within the week(?) but I need to see if I can get my tablet working. ^^'

_________________
(Richardson Valley)
Magnus: S-10 P-5 E-8 C-7 I-2 A-3 L-5

(Haven)
Pavelle: S-3 P-7 E-3 C-5 I-9 A-10 L-5
Felix: S-6 P-7 E-3 C-3 I-8 A-10 L-5
Grif: S-5 P-6 E-5 C-8 I-7 A-5 L-6


Last edited by caelei on Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:49 am, edited 3 times in total.



Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:04 pm
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Not that I have so much free time as before, but this does sound interesting. How's my character Lacooni for this? I already thought of a story as to why he'll be in Haven.
Don't you just hate incompetent grunts?

He's not in use right now as I have withdrawn from all of my former RPs so I don't think it should be an issue to reuse him.

Balancing would be an issue though, so first and foremost, there will be a reason he doesn't have access to all of his funds, influence and contacts.

He's quite a villain though, so he should fit with the neighborhood. Prolly.

Would you have a suggested minimum posting rate though? I can be on daily, but I do tire a lot if the neighborhood's inactive a lot as well. Just saying.

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Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:37 am
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Neighborhood Status wrote:
The Haven player listings..


Residents:

Caelei (GM)
Magnus - Great Dane, Male - #004040
Str-10 Per-5 End-8 Cha-7 Int-2 Agi-3 Luck-5

Pavelle - Common Raccoon, Female - #BF0040
Str-3 Per-7 End-3 Cha-5 Int-9 Agi-10 Luck-5

Felix - Common Raccoon, Male - #40BF00
Str-6 Per-7 End-3 Cha-3 Int-8 Agi-10 Luck-5

Griffon (Grif) - Wire-haired Griffon, Male - #4040FF
Str-5 Per-6 End-5 Cha-8 Int-7 Agi-5 Luck-6


Buckdida
Venison - Coydog - Male - #FF0000
Str-3 Per-7 End-3 Cha-4 Int-10 Agi-10 Luck-5


Daxter
Dax (Or Skunk) - Wolf (forest) - Male - #008040
Str-7 Per-7 End-7 Cha-4 Int-6 Agi-6 Luck-3


Roarin
North Dakota - German Shepherd - Male - #400080
Str-9 Per-5 End-7 Cha-5 Int-5 Agi-7 Luck-4


~\Rook/~
Connor 'Conkers' O'Dunnell - British Red Squirrel - Male - #FF8000
Str-4 Per-6 End-5 Cha-7 Int-5 Agi-9 Luck-4


razgriz
Cody - Snow Leopard - Male - #004080
Str-8 Per-6 End-8 Cha-2 Int-8 Agi-8 Luck-2

Felix - Canadian Lynx - Male - #0040FF
Str-7 Per-8 End-4 Cha-9 Int-6 Agi-6 Luck-2


RandomGeekNamedBrent
Jessica - Eastern Cottontail rabbit - Female - #0080FF
Str-6 Per-6 End-6 Cha-5 Int-8 Agi-6 Luck-5

Jack - Eastern Cottontail rabbit - Male - #008000
Str-5 Per-5 End-6 Cha-6 Int-9 Agi-6 Luck-5


Keeshah
Swiftpaw - Coyote - Female - #FF4000
Str-6 Per-8 End-7 Cha-4 Int-6 Agi-7 Luck-4

Kikyo - Akita - Female - #800080
Str-7 Per-5 End-4 Cha-8 Int-7 Agi-7 Luck-4


Grif's NPC's:
Ralf - male - black lab - #8000FF - Grif/henchman strong, loves to swim, drools.

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Rav/Ravage (RV) - M - German King Shepard: Str-7 Per-6 End-7 Cha-5 Int-5 Agi-6 Luck-6
Moonbeam (RA) - M - Tennessee Walker Horse: Str-6 Per-6 End-8 Cha-4 Int-5 Agi-8 Luck-5
Oreo (RA) - M - Spotted Skunk: Str-5 Per-6 End-6 Cha-5 Int-7 Agi-8 Luck-5


Last edited by Keeshah on Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:04 am, edited 9 times in total.



Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:39 am
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
I need to have some involvement in more RPs. Just one won't do. If it's okay, I'll get started on a character sheet soon.

...Just as long as it's perfectly okay for the character to be a fox, which I'm sure it is. XP

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Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:44 am
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
My question I believe is more important: did you remember to run this by an RP forum mod before creating the OOC? because I think that's still a thing that needs to be done unless Raccoon changed that when he became mod.
and with House's post, my question becomes irrelevant. dang ninja fox mod.
and I may be interested if I can think of a character for it.

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Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:47 am
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
I know you scratched it out, but I'll respond anyway:
RandomGeekNamedBrent wrote:
My question I believe is more important: did you remember to run this by an RP forum mod before creating the OOC? because I think that's still a thing that needs to be done unless Raccoon changed that when he became mod.

She ran it by BOTH of us before hand, and this has been baking among the GMs for about a month now.

I'm not quite sure it's ready though... Caelei, you're going to start this in RV and then break it off as a spinoff, like Yorkshire Fields, right? If you do that it'll work out better when we make this crossover with all the other RPs...



Also, I haven't yet read that MOUNTAIN of text you threw up there, so I'm just going to assume this is exactly what you described before...

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Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:39 am
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
In response to Roro's post, (yes, I'm calling you that.) the concept does seem solid though the blackened text, if I am reading it right, is a possible (probably desired) path for Haven.

Again, it's the vibe I'm having from reading the opening post. "The Haven we will be playing in is empty at the moment." in other words , and the players will be there to "build" it, with the possibility of the GM guiding the RP in the "right direction".

Now for problems, didn't add this on the first post as I didn't give the black text too much thought until now.
caelei wrote:
The most unique quality of Haven is that Haven itself will not be set up before the RP begins. That means that it'll be up to RP'ers to do just that. Build the community, build houses and new lives, relationships, you name it. Whatever you can think of. Want to live in a nearby cave? Fine! Want to go to the city, find some scraps and build a house in a tree? Go ahead! Haven is yours to compose.

The black text, however; if it would be a prologue, would put Pavelle and Griffon in a "supremo" status as well as setting a De facto governance for Haven, which in fact would make "simply building" much less "do anything" harder if not impossible due to the implied Aristocracy or Feudalism.
( "Mob Rule", if anyone is familiar with it, is actually the system that is most similar to the black texts' description, with the two animals mentioned being the head of the mob. However, I chose not to directly add this as this is a very annoying system. Very real, but very annoying to have to RP. )

I don't suppose anyone share the same thoughts?

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Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:06 am
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Hypergenesis wrote:
Now for problems, didn't add this on the first post as I didn't give the black text too much thought until now.
caelei wrote:
The most unique quality of Haven is that Haven itself will not be set up before the RP begins. That means that it'll be up to RP'ers to do just that. Build the community, build houses and new lives, relationships, you name it. Whatever you can think of. Want to live in a nearby cave? Fine! Want to go to the city, find some scraps and build a house in a tree? Go ahead! Haven is yours to compose.

The black text, however; if it would be a prologue, would put Pavelle and Griffon in a "supremo" status as well as setting a De facto governance for Haven, which in fact would make "simply building" much less "do anything" harder if not impossible due to the implied Aristocracy or Feudalism.
( "Mob Rule", if anyone is familiar with it, is actually the system that is most similar to the black texts' description, with the two animals mentioned being the head of the mob. However, I chose not to directly add this as this is a very annoying system. Very real, but very annoying to have to RP. )

I don't suppose anyone share the same thoughts?


My thoughts would be to have haven fully detailed out at the beginning, An then modified by the pets living there as the rp goes along..
An yes, it is currently set up to have Pav and Griffon in charge. and the players would have to wrestle control from them, to be leader of haven.

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Moonbeam (RA) - M - Tennessee Walker Horse: Str-6 Per-6 End-8 Cha-4 Int-5 Agi-8 Luck-5
Oreo (RA) - M - Spotted Skunk: Str-5 Per-6 End-6 Cha-5 Int-7 Agi-8 Luck-5


Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:56 am
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Not meaning to offend but... Isn't that just like almost every other RP we have right now? Just going on day-by-day hoping that people will go to sleep on the same time, people will be patient enough with others and scraping out ideas from the bottom of the barrel?

I was imagining haven to be more arc progressed where the "next day" doesn't have to be the next calendar day, but the next day that marks a "milestone" in a parallel reality. I'm not against scripting but having a leader can be both highly effective or detrimental to an RP. Mainly pointing out that the freedom of choice will be weighted by "right or wrong" before it even starts, and making decisions without informing the "leader" makes for a bad reputation for the character.

The community seems to be "self-sufficient" enough that it wouldn't need outside help if it were established to the degree portrayed by the blackened texts, and that basically means the residents would be ruled by the leader. Not really a good thing to do in my opinion.

Again, no offense.

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Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:31 am
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Quote:
How's my character Lacooni for this? I already thought of a story as to why he'll be in Haven.
__________
Would you have a suggested minimum posting rate though? I can be on daily, but I do tire a lot if the neighborhood's inactive a lot as well. Just saying.

Took a look, he sounds fine. Villains are fun, right?
__________
Perhaps I should have put this (if I didn't?) up in the first post, however.
This RP is still a work in progress. There are things to be worked out about the details, such as posting rate. That being said, I was kinda hoping for an all-for-one system here. Like, the players discuss the best posting rate, since they are the ones posting. If I have to, I'll step in and declare one myself (and I do hope players would be active, I don't like one-post-every-dour-days or whatever, that's silly and doesn't get anything done). If that makes sense?

Quote:
Is Haven still going to be connected to RV?
Or is it going to be stand alone now?

Since my characters are from RV, I always intended it to be connected to RV, so that they don't have to completely abandon their friends/family. Think of Haven's placement as on the other side of a mountain in relation to RV, or something. Kinda a trip, but manageable, and close enough to interchange if necessary. Not that anyone would run back and forth from one to the other daily; that can't happen, too confusing and annoying. ^^'

Quote:
...Just as long as it's perfectly okay for the character to be a fox, which I'm sure it is. XP

Yes, that's fine! XD

Quote:
and I may be interested if I can think of a character for it.

You are free to join, if you wish. ^^

Quote:
I'm not quite sure it's ready though... Caelei, you're going to start this in RV and then break it off as a spinoff, like Yorkshire Fields, right? If you do that it'll work out better when we make this crossover with all the other RPs...

Also, I haven't yet read that MOUNTAIN of text you threw up there, so I'm just going to assume this is exactly what you described before...

I was planning on starting it out free from RV (that's why Mag is the only character I'm playing there, and why Pavelle and Felix are off somewhere). And then after Haven got started rolling and everybody comfortable rp'ing, I planned to either send Pavelle or Felix home to kinda ground ties there, so that the players (like Rav) in RV know where they've gotten to. If that makes sense...
As for it not being ready, that's why I posted the OOC asking for any pointers and things. I wasn't going to start the board tomorrow (sorry), since it's probably not ready yet.
And yes the black wall of death up there is exactly what I gave you before. ^^'

Quote:
The black text, however; if it would be a prologue, would put Pavelle and Griffon in a "supremo" status as well as setting a De facto governance for Haven, which in fact would make "simply building" much less "do anything" harder if not impossible due to the implied Aristocracy or Feudalism.

I only used my own characters as the 'lead' in the outline because they were what I had to work with. With Haven beginning with a group of animals instead of just my own characters, that group would also be the ones making decisions and what. I honestly don't want Pavelle having to be some sort of above-everyone-else character; that's no fun for anyone. I'm not gonna lie, though. Griffon would enjoy it. He loves his followers. ^^ Though I myself might not have to play as Griffon (actually, I'd prefer it if I didn't!). If they want to, someone can make up a character to play his role or take his place or just play him as I have him now. He was never one of my actual characters. A lot of people posted for him in RV.
If everyone is against using the outline to achieve the 'Haven' that I originally thought up, that's fine. We could scrap the whole thing and start literally with no plan, and see where it goes from there. I just wanted to use that as a reference point, in case we got stuck somewhere, and since it sorta ends up with Haven coming together, instead of falling apart. It was like a really long-winded suggestion, and one that the mods approved beforehand. I don't intend to give my own characters power over anyone else's.

Quote:
My thoughts would be to have haven fully detailed out at the beginning, An then modified by the pets living there as the rp goes along..

So, Keesh, you mean we wouldn't RP the setup? Cuz to me that sounds like the funnest part to RP...

Quote:
I was imagining haven to be more arc progressed where the "next day" doesn't have to be the next calendar day, but the next day that marks a "milestone" in a parallel reality. I'm not against scripting but having a leader can be both highly effective or detrimental to an RP. Mainly pointing out that the freedom of choice will be weighted by "right or wrong" before it even starts, and making decisions without informing the "leader" makes for a bad reputation for the character.

I guess I didn't mean for the whole thing to sound scripted. It was more like... how can I put it clearly?
Okay, we have a group of rp'ers.
Their characters are all a part of Haven.
If we all choose to use the 'black text' as an outline, it's like they're given a very broad task to do over the course of an unnamed number of days (that is, given the objective, and however long it takes is how long it will take). So a task would be, "Talk to Grif," and then all the rp'ers could get set on that, or if they didn't want to be involved with that they could do whatever they wanted to, like in any other RP. Does that make sense? The guidelines are supposed to be very loose.

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Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:48 am
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
caelei wrote:
If we all choose to use the 'black text' as an outline, it's like they're given a very broad task to do over the course of an unnamed number of days (that is, given the objective, and however long it takes is how long it will take). So a task would be, "Talk to Grif," and then all the rp'ers could get set on that, or if they didn't want to be involved with that they could do whatever they wanted to, like in any other RP. Does that make sense? The guidelines are supposed to be very loose.

It's why I mentioned "milestone", as in the major events.
Example:
Finding Haven
Rise of the Leader
The Hunter
The Retaliation
Our First Land

Something like that, keep it vague, but give the players the idea what you want to happen. I meant it like that.

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Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:13 pm
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Quote:
Something like that, keep it vague, but give the players the idea what you want to happen. I meant it like that.

Then, yep. I believe you and I have the same idea. I never intended for it to be set in stone. If it was, it wouldn't be a roleplay. ^^

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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Yeah, I see it as how tabletop RPGs are played. The GM has a general idea of what he or she wants the players to do, planning entire dungeons and such, but the players can completely ignore that if they want and go off in a completely different direction than the GM planned.
This does look interesting to me as long as we do what Hyper suggested and play out major points in the RP's timeline and choose whether or not we want to take part in that.

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Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:48 pm
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
So Ven's back.

He's gonna be here. Maybe, just maybe, the odd post in RV, like when Pav goes to check in.

I'll have to re-read all the backstory I made for him. (Herp derp)

Caelei's fault entirely. We talked about this, and it got me interested, so...

But he's back.

So I guess I am too... I'll have to change my sig! D:

I just signed my own death warrent haven't I

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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
YAAAAYYY!!!
Venison! <3

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Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:04 pm
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
I volunteer to join... Maybe you could have some animals who are liasons from human society who talk to human government? My character ideas (2 chars :3) are both zoo animals, maybe some from the zoo could help manage legal ends?


Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:36 pm
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
caelei wrote:
Quote:
My thoughts would be to have haven fully detailed out at the beginning, An then modified by the pets living there as the rp goes along..

So, Keesh, you mean we wouldn't RP the setup? Cuz to me that sounds like the funnest part to RP...


So your talking like the characters are setting paw on a new world, and don't know the lay of the the land at the start? That they will have to find where the shelter is, the water sources, and all of that by the first players there?

because this goes against the reason for founding Haven, as the wild raccoon family would already know the lay of the land.
Grif too would know the lay of the land since he, and his pack, has been there for more than a year now.

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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
RockstarRaccoon wrote:
YAAAAYYY!!!
Venison! <3

I do agree.

Quote:
So your talking like the characters are setting paw on a new world, and don't know the lay of the the land at the start? That they will have to find where the shelter is, the water sources, and all of that by the first players there?

because this goes against the reason for founding Haven, as the wild raccoon family would already know the lay of the land.
Grif too would know the lay of the land since he, and his pack, has been there for more than a year now.

Okay, sorry if I'm not fully understanding you. I think I missed something...? ^^'
I think the Haven RP could start off from the very beginning, as long as the other rp'ers are up to it. That being said, if all the characters manage to come across the raccoon family, then they won't have to figure out shelter, water sources, etc., since the raccoons/other wild animals already know where everything is located, like you said. Also, if this RP starts from the very beginning of the 'outline', then Grif won't be there yet. He comes into play a little later.
I believe the reason for founding Haven (or at least my own characters' reason; I'm sure other people could have their own reasons for joining) was to help out family, by saving the raccoons' home and, ultimately, the forest. I'm not sure how our characters being there goes against that...?

Quote:
I volunteer to join... Maybe you could have some animals who are liasons from human society who talk to human government? My character ideas (2 chars :3) are both zoo animals, maybe some from the zoo could help manage legal ends?

You are welcome to join.
I don't know precisely how the zoo thing could work (just trying to think how much influence the zoo animals' opinions would have on humans and such, not trying to shoot you down!), but if anyone else thinks that it's a good idea, or how it could tie in...? Unless you've already thought it through, and I'm just rambling.
Though if anyone else wanted this included, it could be something we could work out in the actual RP, instead of doing everything OOC. ^^

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Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:14 pm
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
My thinking on it would be that it could develop as part of the general movement so that there's some communication going on. Now with the humans, they have a few places they can turn for animals to go between the communities:

1. Police Dogs
2. Service Dogs (search/rescue, guide dogs, etc)
3. Military Dogs
4. Service animals I don't know about that I cannot list here.

The flaw in that, is that these animals all have jobs they're needed for and they may just defect or prove to be bad for anything political (imagine a military dog trying to help humans and animals keep peace with maybe negotations on the price of land or something where he's working with both sides... if he loses his temper? BOOM!) These animals may even outright defect and stop being of help to humans.

What remains is pets who are already defecting and zoo animals. What helps here is that Zoo animals have pretty good lives. Everything they need is provided, they don't have to do any complex or difficult work, and overall life's grand. A few of these who want some adventure could be recruited by humans to go between the communities as they have some measure of control on the zoo animals so they won't immediately defect. These are animals who either enjoy their semi-domestic life or were born domestically there. This gives the humans a carrot to dangle: want to keep cushy life? Stay on our side. Over time a zoo animal could become interested in living in the new animal community, but I believe it would take longer.

Now, the liason job would probably have a few important tasks on both sides of the fence:
For humans:
1. Monitor the animal community for a major/serious threat
2. Help in containing/managing the animals so that they don't suddenly boom out and take over areas they haven't bought
3. Help with legal junk.

For animals:
1. Learn/Dispurse information about humans.
2. Help with raising awareness (its rather difficult to miss a larger animal or most zoo animals out on the streets)
3. Help in negotiating for land purchases or legal messes with the humans.
4. Potentially protectors as zoo's have larger animals that are less common even in the wilds for a given area.


I think it could be an interesting job to fulfill as Zoo animals have benefits on both sides of things and in theory, we know the Zoo should be treating them perfectly well.


Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:28 pm
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Splitting this into two parts so as to give a better separation of the two.
Disclaimer: Everything you will read outside of the quote boxes are the posting user's opinions. You are not required to follow, oblige or even share these view if you do not agree with them. This post is aimed to provide feedback and not to target or offend anyone whose views may differ from the posting user's.
razgriz wrote:
My thinking on it would be that it could develop as part of the general movement so that there's some communication going on. Now with the humans, they have a few places they can turn for animals to go between the communities:

1. Police Dogs
2. Service Dogs (search/rescue, guide dogs, etc)
3. Military Dogs
4. Service animals I don't know about that I cannot list here.

The flaw in that, is that these animals all have jobs they're needed for and they may just defect or prove to be bad for anything political (imagine a military dog trying to help humans and animals keep peace with maybe negotations on the price of land or something where he's working with both sides... if he loses his temper? BOOM!) These animals may even outright defect and stop being of help to humans.

You're onto a good idea here, though I would say this isn't something that is really needed yet at the start. Following in on what I understand as what the OP wishes for, starting characters would be key personalities as to the progress of the RP. Giving your characters a "tentative" role for now would be helpful as you give your character direction as to where they want to be as the RP progresses.

In short, we are probably gathering animals who would be the "forefathers" of Haven. (Pardon the patriarchal term I used.)
These... Ambassadors you are suggesting might-- actually, would most probably be needed once tensions start between Haven and the human society and the situations you mentioned would most probably be the junior members of these groups as they would be more susceptible to Haven's cause, of course, I am not saying more senior members would be immune to this, but as Haven would most probably be an RV spin-off, a neighborhood that does have animal activists, then the more senior members would be more hardened against sympathizing with animal activists/revolutionaries.
However, as I have mentioned earlier, these would more likely happen later on in the RP.

razgriz wrote:
What remains is pets who are already defecting and zoo animals. What helps here is that Zoo animals have pretty good lives. Everything they need is provided, they don't have to do any complex or difficult work, and overall life's grand. A few of these who want some adventure could be recruited by humans to go between the communities as they have some measure of control on the zoo animals so they won't immediately defect. These are animals who either enjoy their semi-domestic life or were born domestically there. This gives the humans a carrot to dangle: want to keep cushy life? Stay on our side. Over time a zoo animal could become interested in living in the new animal community, but I believe it would take longer.

Now, the liason job would probably have a few important tasks on both sides of the fence:
For humans:
1. Monitor the animal community for a major/serious threat
2. Help in containing/managing the animals so that they don't suddenly boom out and take over areas they haven't bought
3. Help with legal junk.

For animals:
1. Learn/Dispurse information about humans.
2. Help with raising awareness (its rather difficult to miss a larger animal or most zoo animals out on the streets)
3. Help in negotiating for land purchases or legal messes with the humans.
4. Potentially protectors as zoo's have larger animals that are less common even in the wilds for a given area.


I think it could be an interesting job to fulfill as Zoo animals have benefits on both sides of things and in theory, we know the Zoo should be treating them perfectly well.

Interestingly, zoo animals does have a big decision on their hands with the concept of Haven, but it does require some preparatory work.

How did they know about Haven? Now this is as easy as getting the information of Haven into the Zoo, but in the early stages this would require zoo escapees to stumble upon the place or be recruited by one of Haven's. The latter being less likely if we do say that they are treated nicely at the zoo, though more adventurous animals may be keen on taking part. The first option is more interesting though. If done at the start of the RP, they themselves would help build Haven. However, if introduced after Haven is established, then chances are that they (Haven) would be more cautious around them as they have "standards of living" from being from the zoo. ( Now to go on further than that would be taking the matter too deeply so I'll be stopping with that. However, I do keep myself open for discussion in private for those who do plan to explore this path. )
Later on though, once conflict starts to arise, I would doubt they would use zoo animals to use as a liaison as this would anger Animal Rights Groups for putting zoo animals at risk. Which would then just start my discussion in the first part of this post.

All in all, zoo animals does have a potential to be characters in this sort of RP, though just being "zoo animals" wouldn't really be much of a reason. Try more colors in their creation. A good thing to consider is whether you will be playing the character consistently throughout the RP or is it an arc exclusive character. Animals with vocational education are ideal for long term role-playing as they get to play a role within the community, while generic characters are usually good for a shorter ones, unless you consider yourself as an advanced player who will be able to make his/her character "grow" with the RP, I do suggest against using very generic characters. Even better are "unique" characters as long as they do not cross the mary sue line.

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Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:31 am
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Hypergenesis wrote:
razgriz wrote:
My thinking on it would be that it could develop as part of the general movement so that there's some communication going on. Now with the humans, they have a few places they can turn for animals to go between the communities:

1. Police Dogs
2. Service Dogs (search/rescue, guide dogs, etc)
3. Military Dogs
4. Service animals I don't know about that I cannot list here.


In short, we are probably gathering animals who would be the "forefathers" of Haven. (Pardon the patriarchal term I used.)
These... Ambassadors you are suggesting might-- actually, would most probably be needed once tensions start between Haven and the human society and the situations you mentioned would most probably be the junior members of these groups as they would be more susceptible to Haven's cause, of course, I am not saying more senior members would be immune to this, but as Haven would most probably be an RV spin-off, a neighborhood that does have animal activists, then the more senior members would be more hardened against sympathizing with animal activists/revolutionaries.


In RV currently that would be Blood and Rav.

Hypergenesis wrote:
However, as I have mentioned earlier, these would more likely happen later on in the RP.
razgriz wrote:
Now, the liason job would probably have a few important tasks on both sides of the fence:
For humans:
1. Monitor the animal community for a major/serious threat
2. Help in containing/managing the animals so that they don't suddenly boom out and take over areas they haven't bought
3. Help with legal junk.

For animals:
1. Learn/Dispurse information about humans.
2. Help with raising awareness (its rather difficult to miss a larger animal or most zoo animals out on the streets)
3. Help in negotiating for land purchases or legal messes with the humans.
4. Potentially protectors as zoo's have larger animals that are less common even in the wilds for a given area.


Venison was well on his way to owning himself, which would give him human rights, like owning land.
Since he is returning, he could be Haven's legal ambassador, with the humans.
An he has the high Int. stat's to pull off working in the humans legal realm. (also he should rework his Cha stat up, to bring it more in line with how he was played and followed before.)

Hypergenesis wrote:
Interestingly, zoo animals does have a big decision on their hands with the concept of Haven, but it does require some preparatory work.

All in all, zoo animals does have a potential to be characters in this sort of RP, though just being "zoo animals" wouldn't really be much of a reason. Try more colors in their creation. A good thing to consider is whether you will be playing the character consistently throughout the RP or is it an arc exclusive character. Animals with vocational education are ideal for long term role-playing as they get to play a role within the community, while generic characters are usually good for a shorter ones, unless you consider yourself as an advanced player who will be able to make his/her character "grow" with the RP, I do suggest against using very generic characters. Even better are "unique" characters as long as they do not cross the mary sue line.


What would be a "Zoo Animal"? coyote's, wolves, cougars, and brown and black bears would be Zoo animals, but also naturally occurring local feral predators.
So you would be talking Lions, tigers, and polar bears, oh my.
A Zoo animals at the start of Haven, would be a hunted escapee. or perhaps a retired Zoo animal, to old to perform at the zoo and sent to a retirement home. And has since run away from there..

Also how would Haven support large predators? you can't just feed them a salad like in Kimba/Leo the white lion.

Also, I don't know/get the Mary sue reference.

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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
This had become a wall of text... My apologies.

Keeshah wrote:
Venison was well on his way to owning himself, which would give him human rights, like owning land.
Since he is returning, he could be Haven's legal ambassador, with the humans.
An he has the high Int. stat's to pull off working in the humans legal realm. (also he should rework his Cha stat up, to bring it more in line with how he was played and followed before.)

I don't know the story behind Venison so a link or a more detailed summary would be appreciated. However, I would like to point out that if he was going to "own himself" it would still require a "legal guardian" or a "steward" as with the Milton Ferrets. Of course it does differ depending on the neighborhood so I really have no idea on the claims for that.

However, as I have said, that would really come later in the RP if we're going to have a natural flow. Wild animal communities have non-governmental territorial claims, so Haven needs not be "theirs" from the beginning. If the idea would like to be presented early, Black Text Paragraph #3 would work for a reason. Then comes realization and enlightenment.

Keeshah wrote:
What would be a "Zoo Animal"? coyote's, wolves, cougars, and brown and black bears would be Zoo animals, but also naturally occurring local feral predators.
So you would be talking Lions, tigers, and polar bears, oh my.
A Zoo animals at the start of Haven, would be a hunted escapee. or perhaps a retired Zoo animal, to old to perform at the zoo and sent to a retirement home. And has since run away from there..

Also how would Haven support large predators? you can't just feed them a salad like in Kimba/Leo the white lion.

Zoo Animals would cover any animal/character that has a history of being in the zoo, being an escapee or a retired animal doesn't really matter, they would have roughly the same experience.
If you take note of Shardul (sp), the big cats does have larger builds but are still around human size, if not slightly larger. The wolves themselves are slightly smaller than humans, so that should give a good size approximate for some animals. "Hoofed animals, if I remember correctly, are always fully zoomorphic. I am not so certain if this includes the larger species like elephants, hippos, etc. Bears would also be larger than human sized I guess, but I really have little idea as the last bear I played here was approved by myself with not much feedback.

As for sustenance, the premise of Haven is that the residents do and can forage food for themselves. Characters can fill in niches for supply with a little work and some effort from their players. It's always best to remember that we try to be as realistic as possible without being either too realistic or unrealistic. If a number of these natural predators can survive in the wild then it goes to say that there is enough to sustain. Unless it is a must to RP every action a character does, a character can "support" itself while it's not being played. A main reason a lot of people don't think of this situation is that in "Pet Friendly" neighborhoods, where the characters are pets that are treated like children, the food "is there", waiting for the pet to eat it. In RPs like Haven, I would expect people to start their day in lines such as...
Quote:
Back from his morning hunt, the plusvier returned with take home from a log that was washed downstream by the storm last night.

In this scenario, my personal species returns to the community already finishing his "daily routine". In the wild, you don't eat three meals a day for breakfast, lunch and dinner, you have what's available whenever and wherever. Improvisation and spontaneity, it's really up to you how you want your character to start off the day.

Keeshah wrote:
Also, I don't know/get the Mary sue reference.

Mary Sue is a term that is given for a character that is over idealized. If I should say it simply then it would be "success personified". ( You can google it or read it straight off wikipedia. )
I used the term in turn with unique characters as these characters are the ones who are most susceptible of having these traits. A number of things that can "sue up" your character can be as simple as being able to conclude an action by themselves. Say... "XXX sees a hunter and knocks him out.", a simple question that would run in some people's minds are, "How?" and that's exactly what makes your character a sue, being able to conclude an action without any effort. Now while this does seem to be something that would happen in the RP, it also does happen in character creation. I'll use Lacooni as an example for this, he was meant to be a supporting secondary before so he have traits that playable characters shouldn't have.

Here's his sheet with a few modifications to show an "initial character entry sheet"
Lacooni wrote:
Name: Lacooni
Gender: Male
Species: Ferret
Age: 7 (25 pet)
Neighborhood: Haven
Type: Main/Villain Character

Appearance: Lacooni is a brown and cream ferret with gold eyes and dresses rebelliously under a gaudy long coat.

Personality:
Lacooni is a puppeteer that takes his time in setting up the pieces to ensure his actual move would do what he wants it to do. He doesn't believe anything to be impossible and would go to great lengths to ensure the cooperation of others. He usually disappears after he finished what he had planned or if he's found out.

"Evil" is a word that could be used to describe Lacooni but it does not actually fit very well. Casualties occurring from his plans are almost always accidental as he prefers to keep a low profile, which is also proven by his avoidance of explosions or worrisome incidents. While there is no sure way of contacting or finding him, randomly asking about Lacooni could get one into some very serious trouble and if enough people talk about him, he may just pop out and make sure everyone stops.

Backstory:
A failed help, Lacooni was quickly taken off the trainees’ list weeks after he started. Annoyed by having a “failed” mark in his papers, he vowed to exceed the others in more ways than one. It’s blackened for a reason. He reemerged nearly six years later bringing sponsors to the dig just to prove that he wasn’t a failure, though after finding out his brother was already gone he vanished without a trace. He quickly tracked him down upon his settlement and has started lurking around from the shadows of the neighboring neighborhood.

Other Notes
- Is an inventor?
- Has an unusual ability to get hold of information.
- Is not a pet and holds a foreign citizenship. (He pays taxes too.)
- Is harder to contain than a greased lockpicking ferret on a sugar high.
- Is quite skilled in Parkour.
- Appears nice and friendly.

SPECIAL
S-4 P-7 E-5 C-3 I-10 A-6 L-7

Anyone would not how his backstory had him emerge from a poor failed help to a wealthy animal with influence and power in a span of six years. It's stuff like this that would indicate a "sue". Without any backing or reason, he gets what he wants/needs to come back "better". While it's easy to overlook details like these, it does unbalance the RP for others and reading in on one like this will promote others to make a character equal to or even better than this one. In the end we would be left with characters who can just do anything they want and the RP would really become boring with "instant actions" everywhere. ( For a sci-fi reference, it's like watching protagonists in shows destroy seemingly indestructible machines with a similar machine of their own, while enduring hits from other also similar machines. )
Other notes... They're all so horrible if I will be playing him as a main. o _o. . .

On the other hand, certain characteristics also help in balancing him, especially the mention that he doesn't always do things perfectly. Even simple mentions of mistakes as those can really help in building your character. Not being perfect is the perfect way to make a roleplay character.

So this is what I meant by a unique character though. He has traits that most other players would not want to RP, but can be really advantageous to an RP like Haven. Most of the time, characters are made to be lawful and under the law, having only a troubled past to make them rebel. Lacoon's uniqueness comes from his natural alignment to be a manipulative villain (puppeteer), but there are tons of other roles people can fit in to make their characters unique and purposed. A farmer, a shaman, a fugitive, a stranded time traveler (or one who thinks like one) to name a few.

And yes, I do plan on overhauling him first before actually submitting his entry.
Ah! Before I get ahead of myself, everything I have said is still subject for approval/disapproval of the GM. So in no means should you take this as being set in stone.

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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Lacooni wrote:
Name: Lacooni
Gender: Male
Species: Ferret
Age: 10 (35 pet)
Neighborhood: Haven
Type: Main/Villain Character

Appearance: Lacooni is a brown and cream ferret with gold eyes and dresses rebelliously under a gaudy long coat.

Personality:
Lacooni is a puppeteer that takes his time in setting up the pieces to ensure his actual move would do what he wants it to do. He doesn't believe anything to be impossible and would go to great lengths to ensure the cooperation of others. He usually disappears after he finished what he had planned or if he's found out.

"Evil" is a word that could be used to describe Lacooni but it does not actually fit very well. His plans are mainly executed through manipulation but not coercion. Casualties do arise though he wishes to minimize them as much as possible, even hoping he could nullify it altogether. In the end, his target is his only target and he tries to keep it that way as much as possible.

Despite everything said about him, those happily working for him do say that he cares for them like his own family.

Backstory:
After failing to enter into the field of archeology due to his weak physical strength, Lacooni was instead given to a young king as part of a tribute to his succession of the throne. Over the years, he had grown closer to the king due to his insight, to the point that he was even assigned as the adviser for animal treatment in the kingdom. One day, the naive king was troubled over the words of a rebel, told that he was "no better than an animal", he asked his most trusted advisers. As expected, the advisers all told the king the same thing, "The words of a rebel are nothing but lies.", save for one voice that said, "Why not put it to the test?". The king, fascinated by the idea, asked more on how this challenge could be tested and the solution he was given was that humans and animals must first have a level ground, it was calling for equal rights and liabilities. The king quickly made it so, causing a huge uproar among the advisers, surprisingly though a majority of the people agreed to the idea and the overwhelming support quickly curbed the opposition. As for the one who was behind the whole thing, though it wasn't said in the open, the royal house wanted him gone. So as not to trouble his king, he left on his own volition after reiterating his loyalty and promising to remain in touch.

More than five years had passed since his exile and after utilizing a loophole for naturalization, Lacooni had been highly active in capitalizing on import and untapped markets. However, he is currently in hiding after being accidentally involved in a crackdown.

Other Notes
- Has various underworld connections.
- Has an unusual ability and network to get hold of information.
- Is not a pet and holds citizenship. (He paid taxes too.)
- Is skilled in escaping due to having a flexible skeleton even for that of a ferret.
- Is quite skilled in free running or parkour.
- Has the initial appearance of being nice and friendly.

SPECIAL
S-3 P-7 E-5 C-4 I-10 A-6 L-7

So here he is, please comment or leave feedback to help me improve on areas I may have botched.

Edit (8-11-12): Forgot to modify the SPECIAL last night. Str -1, Cha +1

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Last edited by Hypergenesis on Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:58 am
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Quote:
Ah! Before I get ahead of myself, everything I have said is still subject for approval/disapproval of the GM. So in no means should you take this as being set in stone.

I personally think that everything you said makes sense, and fits with Haven.

However, I was kinda hoping that this OOC board wouldn't rely too much on just the GM's approval (which would be... me, I guess, unless someone else comes up). I'm not trying to weasel out of work or anything, I was just hoping that everything would be on more equal footing here: people discussing things (as you are!) and offering opinions, and compromising so that everybody can be in on the decision making and go away happy. Idealistic, I know, but what can I say? After everything's been discussed on a certain topic, and I know other people's ideas, then I can step in and say, "For the rp'ers, by the rp'ers, this is what's going down." Instead of me just monopolizing every decision with my own views.
Hopefully that doesn't make me seem too wishy-washy. I'm just trying not to be some big dominate authority.

As for your revised character sheet...
I was just wondering. Is Lacooni some sort of rare breed of ferret or something?
Quote:
Lacooni was instead given to a young king as part of a tribute to his succession of the throne.

It seems like only some special breed would be given to the king as tribute, unless he was handed over because of his remarkable intelligence, or something like that. And did the archaeologists give him away, or some other party? Did Lacooni want to be given to the king, or was it forced upon him?
Probably I'm just going too in-depth, but you asked for feedback, right? ^^'

_________________
(Richardson Valley)
Magnus: S-10 P-5 E-8 C-7 I-2 A-3 L-5

(Haven)
Pavelle: S-3 P-7 E-3 C-5 I-9 A-10 L-5
Felix: S-6 P-7 E-3 C-3 I-8 A-10 L-5
Grif: S-5 P-6 E-5 C-8 I-7 A-5 L-6


Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:48 pm
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
caelei wrote:
However, I was kinda hoping that this OOC board wouldn't rely too much on just the GM's approval (which would be... me, I guess, unless someone else comes up). I'm not trying to weasel out of work or anything, I was just hoping that everything would be on more equal footing here: people discussing things (as you are!) and offering opinions, and compromising so that everybody can be in on the decision making and go away happy. Idealistic, I know, but what can I say? After everything's been discussed on a certain topic, and I know other people's ideas, then I can step in and say, "For the rp'ers, by the rp'ers, this is what's going down." Instead of me just monopolizing every decision with my own views.
Hopefully that doesn't make me seem too wishy-washy. I'm just trying not to be some big dominate authority.

Well, I am approaching this more on how I am not yet a "full member" of this RP. Additionally, a lot of what is being said right now concern the "initialization" of Haven. The board did have its share of GM monopolization/monarchy because a lot of players are disconnected with the RP "politics", if interaction in the OoC can be called that. What supposed to be a "democracy" has simply turned into "democrazy"... You know, we can't really talk politics here, LoL...

Long story short, most players don't realize or fail to remember that they can group together and support an idea they feel is good for the RP to "pass" it if "the GM did not agree"; the GM has powers over a regular member but a majority of players does have power over the GM. That said though, it would be uncomfortable to have a member to be soliciting support for his/her idea/action/event so it does fall on an "unsaid responsibility" for the players to actually choose sides in case of a conflict of interest. It can be as simple as providing comments and feedback at first, and when "decision time" comes choose a side depending on the proposed action of the two parties. Actually it would even be best if the GM becomes neutral and another player brings up the complaint so that the other party is not threatened by the GM's stand; or in the case where the GM is the plaintiff, treat him/her as a normal player with the GM responding like a normal player. It's why I believe that there's a need for an assistant GM in every neighborhood RP.

Looking at it.. It's not really short...
caelei wrote:
As for your revised character sheet...
I was just wondering. Is Lacooni some sort of rare breed of ferret or something?
Hypergenesis wrote:
Lacooni was instead given to a young king as part of a tribute to his succession of the throne.

It seems like only some special breed would be given to the king as tribute, unless he was handed over because of his remarkable intelligence, or something like that. And did the archaeologists give him away, or some other party? Did Lacooni want to be given to the king, or was it forced upon him?
Probably I'm just going too in-depth, but you asked for feedback, right? ^^'

  • Actually, all Lacooni was would be a weak, in terms of strength not constitution, ferret. He's like jelly in your hands when he was little and was often dropped when he was lifted carelessly. The biggest reason is his strength though, as it was believed that he would be less dangerous to the king compared to other animals with standard strength.
  • It was the archaeologists who gave him away as they were in the kingdom when the ascension happened, and as they were digging in a foreign country, it is best that they don't offend the ruling body.
  • He was smart, but it wasn't part of the reason he was given to the king. His status as a "pet", however, granted him so much access (plus he was the king's favorite) that he was able to look into the king's work and use his intelligence accordingly.
  • Finally, he had siblings he was attached to, especially his towards his "twin" brother. (yeah, twins in a litter. Go figure.) So he was more or less forced to go.

It's not a problem if you want an in-depth knowledge of him, you will be RPing "with" him after all. So unless it's something I plan to keep hidden, I wouldn't mind saying it if asked. I might PM some details, but only if it's something for "curious ears".

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Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:09 pm
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
So... I made 2 characters to put in here that would give me a zoo character with a connection to the wilds that could be developed and expanded from the beginning. (I am NOTHING if not stubborn). For special I did 42 as, I didn't know if this RP would go by 36 or 42 since much of its population may be animals with natural advantages... I think... I am uncertain, so, 42 until otherwise!

Zoo Character
Quote:
-Name-
Cody

-Character Type-
Main

-Species-
Snow Leopard

-Age-
14 Pet Years
-Neighborhood-
Haven

-Appearance-
A tall, young snow leopard, he is a show cat. His lighter fur is silvery grey, his black spots as deeply dark as the depths of space, on his belly and some spots on his paws its as white as a star and all of it is as shiny and soft as is possible. All of this flows over a skinny gymnast. Crowds are hard to entertain just sitting there, so he does a lot of running around and fairly wild playing. This shows in his wide and wild bright blue/grey eyes. Now, when crowds aren't watching he has a backpack of books and supplies, a computer, and various useful little tools. Additionally, he can sometimes be seen wearing a ring around his tail. Its his form of a collar. It holds his wallet, identification information, a pocket watch, money and a few other useful things.

-Personality-
At heart, Cody doesn't quite understand life just yet. He's very innocent. He knows all about some zoo politics, the arguments governing their feed and how much money is to be spent on it, whether to get a Canadian Lynx or Japanese Otter, trade this animal for that animal and more of generally the same sort of argument. Of the world outside, he doesn't really understand much and books provide a different color for the world than what it really is. He expects to see some crazy scheming villains and heroes in hidden battles. Of course, he hasn't found anything like this yet, despite near weekly trips out of the zoo. His rationale is just bad timing. Instead he just has creative approaches to imagining the world as if all those stories were true. His favorite approach is drawing and painting. Sometimes it even entertains crowds.

Recently, he has become slightly more aggressive and more curious. He wants to know more and experience things for himself rather than just read it after someone has been there and done that. Try to tell him 'no' and he will argue for a 'yes' until he cannot breathe. More or less so because at this point, his solution to paperwork his showing enough anger that the various zoo managers are willing to appease him so he does not perform badly. His requests are easy enough: let me see the city for a while.

Lastly, the cat is rather bold. Stories of heroes and adventures, especially historical events, have instilled some combination of fearlessness. Perhaps it is some instinct or just a brief show, another act he has created for himself. It is rather difficult to say. Either way, he won't back down from a challenge right away. Perhaps after he realizes how large it is he may back down, but not until he's sure he should back away from the challenge.

-Other Notes-
+Knowledgable by book-smarts
+Capable of using knowledge in uncommon ways
+Thinks outside the box
+Parkour/lets free-hand that building
+Artistic
+Slight Russian Accent, however, he can disguise it or make it thicker if he wants. Crowds seem to love it.
-Bullheaded
-Aggressive
-Not so knowledgable of the real world
-Always believes there is a way to do anything

-Backstory-
Cody was born and raised in captivity, starting with a zoo in Russia. His parents were found in the wild, rather severely injured and this just so happened to be the nearest zoo and nearest place with any expertise with Snow Leopards. A vet could probably have handled things but there was no reason to take chances. Luckily all involved survived, though the parents were forced to remain in captivity for their own health. This is perhaps where Cody's fascination with things outside the zoo began. He was told of a number of wild and crazy stories. Whether or not they're possible is... questionable. It didn't matter to him though, he took in every single word of it. These stories were as good as gospel, as good as facts and science, required to be true.

As he grew up, he had a friend. Felix, a Canadian Lynx just a bit younger than he was. The two were an interesting duo. Felix was a local feral who had been in the zoo as a cub and then released. With a slightly silver tongue he had a habit of sneaking in all the time to talk and play with a certain snowy friend. Their deeds were fairly well known and somewhat prepared for around April First and Halloween. They are pretty inseparable. It comes from a mutual fascination in similar sorts of adventures and books... And Felix growing up in the same habitat may have had an influence on things.

Sometime later, Cody was to be transferred to a U.S. Zoo. It was an effort for publicity and money for the Russian Zoo. It could very well work and they had nothing to lose.... Except the little snow leopard's happiness. He was pretty much alone on this trip. Felix however, was already there when he arrived. The loneliness was gone. How exactly the cat got there, he would never say except as an effect of his silver tongue. After that, there wasn't much to do but continue on. Cody learned some American Showmanship in the zoo and Felix made a nice little den in the woods.... They've gotten into mischief along the way of course, but overall, that has been life up to this point./

-SPECIAL-
Strength- 8
Perception-6
Endurance- 8
Charisma- 2
Intelligence- 8
Agility- 8
Luck- 2


His interest in the animal community will start out with curiosity and a desire for adventure. He hears about it from his best friend below, Felix (he may need work, I'm thinking of what/who he is yet...). He'd tell Cody either on a visit to the zoo or from one of Cody's escapes from the zoo. From the one zoo arc with the Kangaroos going on vacation, I figured we could assume that zoo animals can arrange for trips out every now and then... How exactly, I am uncertain but it seems plausible.

Quote:
-Name-
Felix

-Character Type-
Main

-Species-
Canadian Lynx

-Age-
14

-Neighborhood-
Haven

-Appearance-
Felix is a short and strong lynx. His fur changes colors with the season, silvery in the winter and more brown in the summer. It is fluffy but usually pretty rough from bits of dirt in it after he's gone foraging or hunting. His eyes are some mix of light brown and gold, quite a sight in the dark. The fur around his muzzle is short, stopping shy of making the typical distinct beard that his species is known for. Its the result of some odd hormone thing, the glands that produce fur there aren't fully developed. His tail however, is a bit longer than average at a good foot long or so. Around it there is a little band that is like a collar, it holds his useful materials; gerber multitool, money, a small notepad, file, and other small things. Embedded in the band is a windup watch and strapped underneath of it is a fixed blade knife. On his back is a large CamelBak with a hydration bladder in it and a few survival tools for the just-in-case scenario. Largely though, it is empty to gather up whatever he happens to find.

-Personality-
Felix is somewhere between insanely energetic and insanely tired. He does things in bursts. For a while he'll go flying across the woods hunting and then he'll slowly relax, cook and perhaps take a nap. Adventure isn't entirely built into him. Instead this cat lives to just live and have fun. That said, well, the element of fun causes him to follow others around out of pure curiosity. Normally this is his friend Soren. He doesn't question much, he's just a simple cat who lives to get things done. His free time is used to do puzzles, play simple games, do a bit of drawing and napping. He likes to read, but, books are harder to get. Survival materials can be made or pretty easily traded for but his books are fewer and farther in between.

-Other Notes-
+Simple Person
+Follower until pressured
+Very good surviver
+Despite his simplicity, he is VERY convincing.
-Doesn't understand all modern things
-Will take what he needs if there is no other way

-SPECIAL-
Strength- 7
Perception- 8
Endurance- 4
Charisma- 9
Intelligence- 6
Agility- 6
Luck-2


Felix himself is meant to be a worker/supporter inside Haven once it gets going. He's a simplistic person that in general just likes to be helpful, though he has developed a rather persuasive tongue, either as a natural gift or from Cody's adventures/schemes. I imagine though, that he could pretty easily tell Cody about the adventure "opportunity" and once Cody is involved, the zoo could later make use of his involvement to find things out, as, he loves his technology provided from his working at the zoo.


Last edited by razgriz on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:03 am
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Sorry for not replying sooner, been very busy (even went to Chicago Comic Con)!

Razgriz, both of your characters seem well thought out and logical. I doubt anyone will have any problems with them joining the RP, so I figure that they're approved. If anyone does have any pointers, I'm sure any inconsistencies (of which I currently see none) could be quickly and easily fixed.
The only thing I want to point out is that I, myself, have a character named Felix who will be out-and-about when the Haven RP is up and running. I personally have no squabble with you using the same name. I'm only afraid others might become confused or mixed up about it.

_________________
(Richardson Valley)
Magnus: S-10 P-5 E-8 C-7 I-2 A-3 L-5

(Haven)
Pavelle: S-3 P-7 E-3 C-5 I-9 A-10 L-5
Felix: S-6 P-7 E-3 C-3 I-8 A-10 L-5
Grif: S-5 P-6 E-5 C-8 I-7 A-5 L-6


Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:11 am
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
I'm thinking I'm going to keep his name as Felix but, we'll see... I don't think people will get too confused, but, it will be somewhat funny for the characters to be confused if they're different enough though.


Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:08 pm
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
razgriz wrote:
I'm thinking I'm going to keep his name as Felix but, we'll see... I don't think people will get too confused, but, it will be somewhat funny for the characters to be confused if they're different enough though.


I'd keep the two Felix's..

This is Felix, and my other brother Felix.


Why don't you light this candle and open it up to play in??

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Oreo (RA) - M - Spotted Skunk: Str-5 Per-6 End-6 Cha-5 Int-7 Agi-8 Luck-5


Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:00 am
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Okay, two Felix's it is!
I'm sure my Felix will love that. He'll be like >.>

Quote:
Why don't you light this candle and open it up to play in??

Alrighty, if you think it's ready. Or ready enough.

I figure the first objective or milestone or whatever it is that is needed will be called Part I: Founding.
Part I: Founding entails...
1.) Actually getting the characters to Haven. So pretty much like any introductory post.
2.) Figuring out what they need to figure out. (Go, vague!)

Remember you can always veer from this, it is just a suggestion. Or maybe more like a reminder.

Hah, probably people should post characters who haven't. I can also post mine officially, instead of just in the links up above.
Also just to let you all know, I guess Hypergenesis has decided to drop from the RP, for his own reasons. So his characters won't be showing up, unless he changes his mind.
I'm sure I'm forgetting to say something, but oh well.
Also, I'll add a link to the Main OOC above, which includes the character template and such if anyone needs it.

_________________
(Richardson Valley)
Magnus: S-10 P-5 E-8 C-7 I-2 A-3 L-5

(Haven)
Pavelle: S-3 P-7 E-3 C-5 I-9 A-10 L-5
Felix: S-6 P-7 E-3 C-3 I-8 A-10 L-5
Grif: S-5 P-6 E-5 C-8 I-7 A-5 L-6


Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:22 pm
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Well, there's no time like the present.

Will you have some pets or a basic camp started out in the woods, or have anything or is it absolute beginning without a single thing but the idea?


Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:29 pm
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
I was going to go with absolute beginning.
I just posted.
I could scrap it if you wanted. I was just kinda hoping people would show up in one way or another. If anyone has trouble getting their characters into place, I can help. I'm sure we'll think of something. If you need your characters to run into anyone --like one of the raccoon family-- I can post for any of the NPC's. Or feel free to make up your own. Think of them as 'disposable' or just plain handy. Use 'em when you need to. We could even get an NPC list going if we wanted.

_________________
(Richardson Valley)
Magnus: S-10 P-5 E-8 C-7 I-2 A-3 L-5

(Haven)
Pavelle: S-3 P-7 E-3 C-5 I-9 A-10 L-5
Felix: S-6 P-7 E-3 C-3 I-8 A-10 L-5
Grif: S-5 P-6 E-5 C-8 I-7 A-5 L-6


Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:43 pm
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Blarf, I've been lazy about making a character sheet. I'll append it to this post when I'm done.

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Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:00 pm
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
here's a couple characters for this. Feel free to make suggestions
Quote:
-Name-
Jessica

-Character Type-
Main

-Species-
Eastern Cottontail rabbit

-Age-
24 in rabbit years, about 7 in human.

-Neighborhood-
Haven

-Appearance-
she's slightly large for a rabbit in this universe, whatever that is. She has light brown fur and her eyes are blue.

-Personality-
She's a a strong, independent rabbit from having to raise her brother from a young age. She's kind of protective of him sometimes, but knows she can't hold onto him forever. She's sometimes wary to fully trust others, but she still can go along for the ride and bail if she needs to.

-Other Notes-
-She raised her brother jack since she was 11 and he was 3 because they lost their parents to a human hunter.
-They moved around within the forest for a while, eventually settling where they are now.

-SPECIAL-
Strength-6
Perception-6
Endurance-6
Charisma- 5
Intelligence-8
Agility-6
Luck-5


Quote:
-Name-
Jack

-Character Type-
Main

-Species-
Eastern Cottontail rabbit

-Age-
16 rabbit years, about 5 human

-Neighborhood-
Haven

-Appearance-
He's a little small for a rabbit his age. His fur is a darker brown than that of his sister and his fur is about the same as hers on his underbelly. his left ear is also the same color as his underbelly. his eyes are green.

-Personality-
He's kind of shy at first, but really talkative once he comes to trust you. He's a curious kid, wanting to know how things work and what's going on.

-Other Notes-
-he barely remembers his parents.
-he's a pretty smart kid and a quick learner.

-SPECIAL-
Strength- 5
Perception-5
Endurance-6
Charisma-6
Intelligence-9
Agility-6
Luck-5


alright, there they are. I'm not that great with character sheets, I prefer to characterize them while in the RP.

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Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:33 am
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
added player listings post.
It is the third post down from the top. Ah recycling....
only included players who have actually posted in the RP so far.

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Rav/Ravage (RV) - M - German King Shepard: Str-7 Per-6 End-7 Cha-5 Int-5 Agi-6 Luck-6
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Oreo (RA) - M - Spotted Skunk: Str-5 Per-6 End-6 Cha-5 Int-7 Agi-8 Luck-5


Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:40 am
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Quote:
alright, there they are. I'm not that great with character sheets, I prefer to characterize them while in the RP.

Go ahead and post whenever you wish. These look great. Thanks!

Quote:
added player listings post.
It is the third post down from the top. Ah recycling....
only included players who have actually posted in the RP so far.

Oh wow. Probably I should've been doing that. ^^'
But anyways, thanks a ton, Keesh!

If anyone thinks we should ever add anything, go ahead and say so and I'll be right on it.

EDIT: Griffon now has an official character sheet, edited into the first post. It'll be handy later; thanks for the suggestion, Keesh.

_________________
(Richardson Valley)
Magnus: S-10 P-5 E-8 C-7 I-2 A-3 L-5

(Haven)
Pavelle: S-3 P-7 E-3 C-5 I-9 A-10 L-5
Felix: S-6 P-7 E-3 C-3 I-8 A-10 L-5
Grif: S-5 P-6 E-5 C-8 I-7 A-5 L-6


Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:14 am
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Submitted for your approval


Name: Swiftpaw
Gender: Female
Species: Coyote (feral)
Age: 4 (14 pet)
Neighborhood: Haven
Type: Main/Villain Character
Gang: Griffon's Group - Scout/Hunter
Speaking color: #FF4000

Appearance: She is basically muddy brown, with streaks of greys, tans, and yellow-browns throughout her body fur, giving her a natural camouflaged look. She has a green ID tag stapled to her right ear.

Personality: She is all about her survival first, before most other concerns. To this end, she will learn any skill that will make her a better survivor, from new hunting and trapping methods. to fighting methods. to how to treat wounds and prevent illness. to learning about plants and how to grow them. to even learning to read and write.
She does not however make a good henchman, in that she will not attack someone just because Griffon, or one of his lieutenants orders it. Altho she is a fierce and efficient fighter, she could get hurt which would impact her survival. In fact, she believes Griffon's group to be a bunch of loco domestic pets just playing at being ferals, given just how bad they are at surviving in the true wild.

Backstory: She was captured and taken into Griffon's group as a young yote just out puppy-hood, when they invaded her clans territory 2 years ago. driving out the local predators with there strength of numbers. She considers herself to be associated with Griffon's pack, not part of it. Often operating alone, or away from the main group.
She received her ear ID tag last year, when she got tranquilizer darted, during a feral round-up by the Rangers. Where she got examined, chipped, tagged, inoculated and released back into the wild.

Other Notes:
- She has someones fancy survival knife, complete with the sheath and sharping stone.
- She den-ups in an old Jeep Wagoneer she found abandoned and rusting away out in the woods.

Special:
Str - 6
Per - 8
End - 7
Cha - 4
Int - 6
Agi - 7
Luck - 4

*****************


Name: Kikyo (Momma-san)
Gender: Female
Species: Akita
Age: 16 (56 pet)
Neighborhood: Haven
Type: Secondary/NPC?/Villain Character
Gang: Griffon's Group - Alpha Female / Teacher
Speaking color: #800080

Appearance: This dog looks to be built like a brick house. Her face fur is all black except for her muzzle which has gone grey/white with age. while her neck and shoulders are a light grey, going back to black to form the saddle over her back, then back to light grey again over her rump. Her arms, legs, and fluffy tightly curled tail are all white.

Personality: Proper and polite as per Japanese custom, generally calm, meditating and mothering. While an alpha personality, she doesn't go around asserting it. but under this outward tranquility beats the heart of a samurai, as those who have earned her ire have found out. Even at her age, she is not past putting the toughest dogs on the ground, yelping in pain their apologies to her.
Age is beginning to catch-up with her, her eye sight is not as good as it once was, and she feels herself tiring out more often now days.
She spends most of her time with the pups and young of the pack, trying to teach and past on her knowledge and skills while she still can.

Backstory: Kikyo joined Griffon's pack three and half years ago now, after some great dishonorable act occurred. She doesn't talk about her past after that and has been very vague on if it was she or her owner was the one who committed the dishonorable act.
She is devoted follower of Griffon, supporting him in his causes.
She was with the pack while they were in RV, altho not directly involved in the goings on that occurred, given that she spent most of her time out away from the pack in the forest hunting to support the packs large numbers at the time.

Other Notes:
- is a very skilled martial artist, of a mostly a defensive style with blocks, throws, and bone snapping submission holds. altho she does throw the occasional kick, punch or elbow strike.
- knows how to basket weave and has made several items for the pack. Baskets, Fish traps, Buckets, lean to's, even backpack frames. She could make a table and chairs if the pack didn't move around so much.
- Knows how to read, write, and even do calligraphy.
- Knows how to fold Origami figures, if she has paper will do so to entertain the pups..

Special:
Str - 7
Per - 5
End - 4
Cha - 8
Int - 7
Agi - 7
Luck - 4

_________________
Rav/Ravage (RV) - M - German King Shepard: Str-7 Per-6 End-7 Cha-5 Int-5 Agi-6 Luck-6
Moonbeam (RA) - M - Tennessee Walker Horse: Str-6 Per-6 End-8 Cha-4 Int-5 Agi-8 Luck-5
Oreo (RA) - M - Spotted Skunk: Str-5 Per-6 End-6 Cha-5 Int-7 Agi-8 Luck-5


Last edited by Keeshah on Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:59 pm
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
*Wonders who here actually knows the definition of the word "Feral"*

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Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:35 pm
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
Quote:
Submitted for your approval

Looks excellent, Keesh. Go ahead and post when you're ready.

Quote:
*Wonders who here actually knows the definition of the word "Feral"*

Feral is pretty much equivalent to wild. However, the way I personally think of ferals is as different from being just plain "wild". Just from the connotation of the word, I think of them as more vicious. And generally I imagine them organized into some sort of a group, or having once been part of such a group.
Therefore, my Felix is not feral but wild. Grif is feral.

Why, do you think we're doing something wrong?

_________________
(Richardson Valley)
Magnus: S-10 P-5 E-8 C-7 I-2 A-3 L-5

(Haven)
Pavelle: S-3 P-7 E-3 C-5 I-9 A-10 L-5
Felix: S-6 P-7 E-3 C-3 I-8 A-10 L-5
Grif: S-5 P-6 E-5 C-8 I-7 A-5 L-6


Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:40 pm
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Post Re: PF: Haven OOC
caelei wrote:
Why, do you think we're doing something wrong?

Um, no... I'm not going to tell you that anything is "wrong", but I just felt that I should point out that there's no such thing as a "Feral Lynx". XD

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Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:47 pm
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