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Firearm/Survival Topic# Six shots or only Five? 
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
You want an inexpensive but quality shotgun? Get an H&R Pardner Pump. It generally retails for $200 or less, and is compatible with virtually every aftermarket Remington 870 accessory (extended mag tubes, different stocks, etc.) except for barrels... but H&R barrels are cheaper anyways. You can pick up the long-barreled version and buy a shorter barrel (or vice versa) and have a nice skeet/trap/bird hunting/home defense gun for not a ton of cash.

Rifle: I'd honestly go with an AR-15 over an AK, due to parts availability, caliber flexibility, etc. Plus, decent-quality AKs are pretty much the same price as good ARs nowadays. The Smith and Wesson M&P-15 Sport is a good, no-frills AR-pattern rifle that won't break the bank (street price <$700).

-GunRacer


Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:24 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
I’m wondering how I missed this thread. Weapons are one of my primary interests, especially modern arms.


Sarnoff wrote:
I am thinking of getting an AK or cheap 12 gauge in a year or so, anybody got any recommendations?
GunRacer wrote:
Rifle: I'd honestly go with an AR-15 over an AK, due to parts availability, caliber flexibility, etc. Plus, decent-quality AKs are pretty much the same price as good ARs nowadays. The Smith and Wesson M&P-15 Sport is a good, no-frills AR-pattern rifle that won't break the bank (street price <$700).
-GunRacer



I can say with confidence that a 12 gauge made by Mossberg would be a great choice. I’ve had one of their 590 security shotguns for about a year and a half now. I bought it at a decent price (about $450 on sale) and it’s held up wonderfully though hundreds of rounds with no real issues.


As for an AR or AK, as much as I’d love to give input, I’ve thus far been unable to actually buy one for myself to say anything from experience (Cali resident here :x ). Most AR 15 rifles I’ve seen cost on average about a grand, though AK clones and Saiga rifles are generally half that price.

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Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:27 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
You guys sound like youre trying to sell me a gun. (or like lawyers)

I get the points of the safety and the benefits of guns, but he has to know the risks too.
If he's careful and responsible I dont see why he wouldnt get a gun.

(I would have quote you guys, but it was going to be a huge wall of text, hope you get it)

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Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:32 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
legendario13 wrote:
You guys sound like youre trying to sell me a gun. (or like lawyers)

Um.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by that... you raised some valid concerns; I addressed them. Sarnoff asked for recommendations on an inexpensive rifle or shotgun; several forum members (myself among them) addressed that. So I'm afraid I don't know what you're getting at.

legendario13 wrote:
I get the points of the safety and the benefits of guns, but he has to know the risks too.

This is why I sent texascat several LONG PMs regarding safety procedures, finding competent instruction, going to the right kind of range, etc. when he was getting ready to go to the range. I get it, I know guns, and I know gun safety.

legendario13 wrote:
If he's careful and responsible I dont see why he wouldnt get a gun.

Glad to hear you've come around!

D-Singer: Ooh, 590s are nice. And if you want to talk rifles, something CA-compliant you ought to check out is the SU-16CA. It takes AR-15 mags, is inexpensive, accurate, lightweight, and has some nifty features.

Sarnoff: Ditto-- check out the SU-16, too. That should be within your price range, and it's a good 5.56/.223 autoloader.

Linkage-- http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/su-16a/ http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/su-16ca/ http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/su-16c-2/

(The -A has a lighter, longer barrel and the -CA has a shorter, heavier barrel. The -C has a neat folding stock, which unfortunately makes it illegal in Cali. Sorry D-Singer.)

-GunRacer


Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:51 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
GunRacer wrote:
D-Singer: Ooh, 590s are nice. And if you want to talk rifles, something CA-compliant you ought to check out is the SU-16CA. It takes AR-15 mags, is inexpensive, accurate, lightweight, and has some nifty features.

(The -A has a lighter, longer barrel and the -CA has a shorter, heavier barrel. The -C has a neat folding stock, which unfortunately makes it illegal in Cali. Sorry D-Singer.)

-GunRacer


Actually, half the reason I’m looking for an AR specifically is because I’m in the process of enlisting in the Marine Corps and want to familiarize myself with the AR platform while I’m waiting around.

Thus far, finding stores that have them is difficult enough, even more so is finding one that’s willing to sell to me. Apparently some gun shops are so terrified of the legal grey areas that they’re completely unwilling to sell a potential ‘assault weapon’ to someone under 21. The stores that both have them and are willing to sell, usually take time out to explain in some twisted lecture about the legality of having a weapon with a bullet button.


The SU16 is cool, but not exactly what I’m looking for, plus I’ve never seen it once in any of my local gun shops. =\

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Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:26 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
GunRacer wrote:
legendario13 wrote:
You guys sound like youre trying to sell me a gun. (or like lawyers)

Um.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by that... you raised some valid concerns; I addressed them. Sarnoff asked for recommendations on an inexpensive rifle or shotgun; several forum members (myself among them) addressed that. So I'm afraid I don't know what you're getting at.

I think I know, little too much pressure on him!

GunRacer wrote:
legendario13 wrote:
I get the points of the safety and the benefits of guns, but he has to know the risks too.

This is why I sent texascat several LONG PMs regarding safety procedures, finding competent instruction, going to the right kind of range, etc. when he was getting ready to go to the range. I get it, I know guns, and I know gun safety.

I love to read Racer's Long as Route 20 PM.
without GunRacer's help, I would have been like "ummm, what , ok :I, ahhhh, sure, what? eh?" on gun Range.. all thanks to GunRacer's help. I had real fun on range. I even looked intelligent :D

legendario13 wrote:
If he's careful and responsible I dont see why he wouldnt get a gun.

Yay!

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Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:36 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
D-Singer wrote:
Actually, half the reason I’m looking for an AR specifically is because I’m in the process of enlisting in the Marine Corps and want to familiarize myself with the AR platform while I’m waiting around.

Thus far, finding stores that have them is difficult enough, even more so is finding one that’s willing to sell to me. Apparently some gun shops are so terrified of the legal grey areas that they’re completely unwilling to sell a potential ‘assault weapon’ to someone under 21. The stores that both have them and are willing to sell, usually take time out to explain in some twisted lecture about the legality of having a weapon with a bullet button.


The SU16 is cool, but not exactly what I’m looking for, plus I’ve never seen it once in any of my local gun shops. =\


Cut out the middleman-- find a local FFL holder willing to do a transfer (you generally pay $10-$40), and order this: http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/prod ... s_id/71971

Cali legal, and it's $649.99 with free shipping. Bear in mind that this model doesn't incorporate a dust cover or forward assist, but I'm of the mind that those bits are basically superfluous anyways.

Hope that helped.
-GunRacer


Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:48 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
I’ve only fired the AR15 on two occasions, but I’ve been told it’d be wise on invest in a model that at least has a forward assist due it it’s tendency to sometimes jam. This might be feature that’s only seldom used, but I think it might be a good idea to have it.

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Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:38 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
D-Singer wrote:
I’ve only fired the AR15 on two occasions, but I’ve been told it’d be wise on invest in a model that at least has a forward assist due it it’s tendency to sometimes jam. This might be feature that’s only seldom used, but I think it might be a good idea to have it.


Since the AR-15 family doesn't have a charging handle directly affixed to the action, forcibly seating a recalcitrant round has to be done with something else-- enter the forward assist. The issue is this, though: if you've got a rifle with a chamber so gunked-up that the round won't go into battery, and you use the forward assist, you've probably destroyed your rifle's chamber and will need to have it rebarreled. The gun will get you through the rest of a firefight safely (probably), but that's it. The other purpose for the little button on the side of the receiver is to put the bolt back into battery after a chamber check.

Purpose one isn't exactly applicable to your average civilian. ARs nowadays are good enough quality that some have gone through 10k+ rounds of dirty Russian steel-cased ammo without jams, and did I mention this was with no cleaning? If you see yourself treating your rifle even worse than that... okay, spring for the forward assist. It can also be used to forcibly seat a malformed round. But you don't want to shoot a potentially-hazardous round anyways; rip the charging handle back and load another.

Purpose two could be useful during certain situations (like range time, home defense, etc.), but the AR-15 already has a nifty feature for that in the scalloped bolt. Just press it home with your thumb.

Assuming you won't be getting into any extended firefights down in CA (not that the possibly can be totally discounted), the forward assist will do exactly one thing for you: allow chamber checks when the bolt is too hot to touch after extended shooting. Is it worth the extra coin to get an AR with one? Your call. But it certainly isn't absolutely vital (IMHO), and during my dad's decade in the USMC, he didn't use the forward assist once.

More opinions on the matter: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/103887 ... tml&page=1

I'd suggest building your own AR out of a separately-purchased upper and lower, which might cost even less than the M&P-15 and have all the features you want, but I'm not sure of the legalities of that in California. YMMV.

-GunRacer


Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:15 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
Sorry I haven't been able to respond quicker, I've been bogged down with a lot of college crap lately.
Thanks for the recommendations. The SU-16 does look pretty cool, but the AK is like my dream gun. Something about them is just beauty to me.
I saw many really cheap AK's at the gun show for $300-$400 which is more of my price range. Would there be anything bad about getting one that cheap?
The Grey Wolverine wrote:
Look for a Beneli, or Beretta shotgun if you ask me, they are some of the best in the world

I wish I could afford a Benelli, Beretta, or Remington but I am a college student so... I'm pretty poor.
GunRacer wrote:
You want an inexpensive but quality shotgun? Get an H&R Pardner Pump. It generally retails for $200 or less, and is compatible with virtually every aftermarket Remington 870 accessory (extended mag tubes, different stocks, etc.) except for barrels... but H&R barrels are cheaper anyways. You can pick up the long-barreled version and buy a shorter barrel (or vice versa) and have a nice skeet/trap/bird hunting/home defense gun for not a ton of cash.
-GunRacer

And that Pardner shotgun did seem like a pretty nice looking gun for the price, I think I'll ask around the local gun shop to see if they know anything.


Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:18 am
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
Sarnoff wrote:
Sorry I haven't been able to respond quicker, I've been bogged down with a lot of college crap lately.
Thanks for the recommendations. The SU-16 does look pretty cool, but the AK is like my dream gun. Something about them is just beauty to me.
I saw many really cheap AK's at the gun show for $300-$400 which is more of my price range. Would there be anything bad about getting one that cheap?


Bear in mind that I don't have much experience with AK platforms, and that I'm not really a fan of the design. So a lot of what you'll see comes from a little internet research and AK owners I know.

Anyways, to answer your question, maybe. Finding a good AK at that price can be a little hit-or-miss...

The Chinese (Norinco) MAK-90s are very well-regarded, but they may also run well over $400. Romanian WASRs can be good, but you'll want to get some hands-on experience with whatever model you plan to buy to make sure that its sights are aligned and that it doesn't have magazine wobble. Century AKs can be decent as well. Also, see if you can bring a friend or two who really knows guns to the show with you-- when buying used firearms, it's always a good idea to field-strip them and check for parts wear, chamber damage, bore condition, and so on. You may want to look into services that let you check to see if a gun's serial number is listed as stolen (don't know much about those).

Most every AK comes in one of two calibers: 5.45x39mm or 7.62x39mm. 5.45 is much cheaper than 7.62 (~$0.12/round versus $0.20), but magazines and the ammo itself are somewhat more difficult to find for the smallbore cartridge.

Realize that AKs in your price range will probably have plenty of sharp edges, a crappy trigger, etc.-- it's just the nature of the beast.

If you can spring for around $600, you'll get a nice 922(r) compliant Saiga (a great brand) with a good trigger, mags, case, etc: http://www.classicfirearms.com/russian-saiga-ak-variant

Hope that helps you.
-GunRacer


Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:17 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
GunRacer wrote:
Also, see if you can bring a friend or two who really knows guns to the show with you--

I wish my friends knew about rifles, but they only seem to know about shotguns and .22s.
GunRacer wrote:
If you can spring for around $600, you'll get a nice 922(r) compliant Saiga (a great brand) with a good trigger, mags, case, etc

I have heard that Saigas are nice. I also saw a $450 Saiga 12, it seems like it would be a nice shotgun or at least a fun one.
GunRacer wrote:
Realize that AKs in your price range will probably have plenty of sharp edges, a crappy trigger, etc.-- it's just the nature of the beast.

Eh, an AK is meant to be a rough gun anyways I hear. Also I think anything would be a step above my rusted muzzle loader.


On another note, my uncle owns a fully-automatic, silenced Mac-11 with some nylon(or nylon like) foregrip, would that be a fun weapon to shoot/own? I think he might want to sell it someday. Unfortunately he said I probably wouldn't be able to afford bullets for it since it apparently fires a clip in 1.5 seconds.

Also my brother recommends me getting an AR-15 that shoots .22 bullets. I have fired it and it was pretty fun but doesn't have any real kick, though it did seem accurate. Would you happen to know anything about those? The only problem it seemed to have was having difficulty cocking it sometimes.


Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:39 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
You can either get an AR-15 meant to shoot nothing but .22LR, or if you aleady have an AR-15, you can get a .22 kit, but those tend to have issues as the AR-15s are built as .223s, I would start with the .22, ammo is cheap, its decently accurate, and low recoil.

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Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:47 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
texascat018 wrote:
GunRacer wrote:
legendario13 wrote:
You guys sound like youre trying to sell me a gun. (or like lawyers)

Um.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by that... you raised some valid concerns; I addressed them. Sarnoff asked for recommendations on an inexpensive rifle or shotgun; several forum members (myself among them) addressed that. So I'm afraid I don't know what you're getting at.

I think I know, little too much pressure on him!

GunRacer wrote:
legendario13 wrote:
I get the points of the safety and the benefits of guns, but he has to know the risks too.

This is why I sent texascat several LONG PMs regarding safety procedures, finding competent instruction, going to the right kind of range, etc. when he was getting ready to go to the range. I get it, I know guns, and I know gun safety.

I love to read Racer's Long as Route 20 PM.
without GunRacer's help, I would have been like "ummm, what , ok :I, ahhhh, sure, what? eh?" on gun Range.. all thanks to GunRacer's help. I had real fun on range. I even looked intelligent :D

legendario13 wrote:
If he's careful and responsible I dont see why he wouldnt get a gun.

Yay!


If i had know about the 20 PM's of safety info... I wouldn't have insisted so much (well maybe i would anyways) just be conscious of the power weapons have. and that arent toys

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Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:08 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
I do not believe anyone in this thread would disagree that guns are not toys.

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Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:54 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
Sarnoff:
I wrote a wonderful post anwering all of your questions... and then the system wanted me to sign back in when I tried to post. Everything got lost in the digital netherworld.
*tears hair out*

I'll try again tomorrow. For the moment, just remember this: avoid Saiga-12s. Like the plague.
-GunRacer


Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:07 am
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
Take your time, computers are fickle, evil things that love to screw up at bad times. I really appreciate the info you give.

Wow I just found this video today. Hope this doesn't ever happen to me.
Warning: I think there is mild language in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c39kd630Ms


Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:10 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
Okay, so personally, I own a Browning A-5 and a Mossberg 500 20-ga. I don't own any rifles or pistols, but my extended family passes around guns a good bit, so I've had experience with a fair share of their stuff as well, the most recent round including some of the AK family, the AR-15, and some Chinese rifle I can't remember at the moment xP Just today, however, a cousin of mine who works at Quantico acquired something I've been eying for a while now, the Xtrema2. Needless to say, I am giddy with excitement. He's not been able to fire it yet and therefore unable to give any feedback on how it shoots, so I was wondering if any of you folks have had the pleasure of doing so. If so, how was it?

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Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:38 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
Sarnoff:
Saiga-12s are a bad idea. Here's why: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/0 ... -terrible/
(INSERT MADATORY LANGUAGE DISCLAIMER HERE)
Unfortunately, if you want a decent box-magazine-fed autoloading 12-gauge, the MKA 1919 is pretty much the only decent option. It's basically a conventional gas-operated shotgun action shoved into an AR-15ish frame... but unlike the poor-quality Saiga, this thing works. You'll also pay around $700 for it. And this isn't just a case of rampant AR-versus-AK fanboyism. Seriously.

Your uncle's Mac... if you're truly interested in pursuing this, let me know and we can talk about the particulars. But total costs (for the gun, suppressor, fees, etc.) will run you more than $5,000 at fair market value; even if your uncle straight-up gives you the gun and suppressor it'll be around $1,400 to transfer them and to have a lawyer set up an NFA "gun trust" (so you can legally own the firearm and silencer under age 21, although there are other substantial benefits that the trust carries as well).

So if you can afford all that, a crapload of .380 or 9mm ammo will be a fairly insubstantial cost in comparison. And remember that you can always just shoot semi-auto or short bursts most of the time, saving full-auto mag dumps for when you just want to cut loose and have fun. A word of caution: as much as a suppressed subgun is pretty much perfect for home defense (won't blind or deafen you while firing, won't shoot through a ton of interior walls, is fairly reliable, has good stopping power), its Title 2 status and full-auto capability will be a major legal issue if-- God forbid-- you ever need to use it. Keep it as a range toy.

.22 AR-15s are awesome. The Smith and Wesson M&P15-22 is, from what I've heard, the best of the breed. It's so much fun to shoot!

Mr. Noms:
Xtrema2? Awesome! Unfortunately, I haven't had the pleasure of shooting one just yet, so please do let us know how it handles once you get your hands on it.


Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:27 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
GunRacer wrote:
And this isn't just a case of rampant AR-versus-AK fanboyism. Seriously.

I wasn't aware this was actually an existing factor until now. Though it doesn't surprise me.
GunRacer wrote:
Your uncle's Mac... if you're truly interested in pursuing this, let me know and we can talk about the particulars.

I think you just pretty much killed my interest in it. I didn't think the legal fees would be that bad. I also didn't think a person under the age of 21 could legally own a silenced, automatic gun under any circumstances.
GunRacer wrote:
.22 AR-15s are awesome. The Smith and Wesson M&P15-22 is, from what I've heard, the best of the breed. It's so much fun to shoot!
Yea judging by the first image of it on Google images being an almost exact replica(except the one I shot had a red dot) of the one I fired I would say you are spot on. It was a lot of fun to shoot/spray, but the lack of recoil made it feel less fullfilling to shoot than his former competition shotgun(Which for some reason jammed on me despite it being an apparently nice shotgun). Do you know what makes the M&P15-22 have difficulty cocking?

Whats the difference between long and short barrel shotguns? I have only fired long barrel.


Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:43 am
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
Oh, gun fanboyism is very definitely a thing. AK versus AR, Remington 870 versus Mossberg 500, 9mm versus .45, 1911 versus Glock, EOTech versus aimpoint, HK versus... well, everything else, because HK fanboys just work that way*, etc.

I guess an M&P15-22 might have difficulty chambering a round if it was dirty or if the magazine was seated incorrectly... besides that, you've got me. But I don't think the problem is endemic, either. Oh, and recoil stops being so "fulfilling" after a few hundred rounds downrange.

Long-barreled shotguns swing more smoothly when you're trying to knock a bird or clay out of the air. They just "point" better, and a longer barrel helps ameliorate recoil. Shorter barrels make the shotgun more compact and easier to maneuver in tighter spaces, as well as reducing the chance of a successful weapon grab by an assailant. It also increases spread, but don't let that fool you-- the pellet pattern from a shotgun is still small enough that it needs to be aimed to hit anything. So for skeet, trap, and bird hunting your shotgun should wear a longer tube, but for home defense or general fit-hits-the-shan purposes a short barrel's better.

-GunRacer

* http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/ ... -hate-you/
It's a hilarious article and well-worth your time, even if you're not a big gun person. There's a little bit of profanity, but nothing terrible.


Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:24 am
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
GunRacer wrote:
Oh, and recoil stops being so "fulfilling" after a few hundred rounds downrange.
I've only shot about 100 rounds of anything so far so I guess I have yet to reach that stage.

That article was quite entertaining, I guess I have even less reason to want an H&K gun now.


Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:15 am
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
Okay guys, I have my firearms Identification License now, and it was AWESOME. My second cousin Ben runs these classes with the help of Ruger, so he gets a discount on all of their stuff, and so he promised me that if I wanted a Ruger firearm, to talk to him so I could get one on the cheep :D but yah, we shot some guns, mostly I used his custom M1a with a folding Magpul stock on it, and it was glorious! Ad the end I loaded up 5 rounds in it, folded the stock, and shot a lawnmower twice like it was a handgun, and I shot the other two into a washing machine.

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Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:16 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
Well due to going shopping for Black Friday stuff I found an awesome H&R Pardner Protector 12 gauge shotgun. I bought it for $169.99 and some cheap target shells. It seems like a pretty sturdy, rough gun though I don't know much about shotguns. The recoil is awesome and pretty powerful. The rack is extremely loud as is the shells firing, seemingly more so than usual. I was pretty deafened after 3 rapid shots of it. It seems like a good starter shotgun and I am happy with it though I need to figure out how to remove the plug.

And thanks for the recommendation GunRacer it was the only shotgun there I actually knew something about and could afford.


Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:58 am
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Location: Home, home on the range. Gun range, that is.
Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
Hey, man, I'm glad to hear you like your gun!

You were talking about how loud it was... remember to always have on eye and ear protection when shooting. Just this past Friday I was out at the range shooting steel plates with my pistol, and a chunk of metal flew back and gave me a little cut on my forehead. It was totally insignificant considering where it was, but if I hadn't been wearing glasses and it had come at my eye...

Anyways, here are a couple of instructional videos. As always, follow the four rules and you'll be good to go. NEVER practice a technique fast until you have it down pat, and even then put most of your training time emphasizing technique instead of speed. Speed will come naturally if you know the procedure. Start doing things too fast too soon, though, and it's easy to get flustered and be distracted or unsafe.

Magazine plug installation/removal (not the best quality, I know, but the other videos I found took way too long to get to the point):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PuYK

Indoor unloading procedure (for those times when you want to be extra careful... me, I'd probably just put the safety on, keep my finger off the trigger, and rack the pump until the gun is empty, but it's always good to have options):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwrKHpZMeoI

On-the-range/combat loading procedure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwXpYpWOyfo

And a couple of quick random tips if you're going to keep this gun for home defense:
1.) If you're not in the house, keep it locked up and unloaded. Seriously.
2.) Keep it with an empty chamber and a loaded magazine: some shotguns aren't drop-safe, but on the other hand, a totally unloaded gun is hardly any use.
3.) BEFORE you put shells into the magazine, make sure to pull the trigger with the safety off (after double- and triple-checking to make sure the chamber is empty, and while keeping the gun pointed in a safe direction). What that'll do is drop the hammer and unlock the bolt so you don't have to worry about fiddling with the little release on the front of the trigger guard to chamber a round when you're under stress... just pump and you're done. For the same reason, it's best to keep the safety off. So long as you have an empty chamber, there's nothing to worry about.
4.) Know your locality's laws regarding firearms, self-defense, etc.

Quick question: do you have a short or long-barreled shotgun? You can shoot slugs and buckshot safely out of the shorter gun but not the longer one. Oh, and do get a cleaning kit and keep your shotgun in good condition. Even though a pump will work when it's filthy, regular cleaning means you get to know your gun better and will be able to see if something looks "off", which could save your hide in the long run. Have fun shooting!

And stay frosty.
-GunRacer

P.S. Holding the gun tight to your shoulder helps manage recoil.


Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:08 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
Ouch, GunRacer, Glad that you are here telling us about safety rules unblinded.

Good news, I can Finally shoot Air Riffles without my parents being concerend about my safety. I'm joining Royal Canadian air Cadet riffle teams (military afterschool) and my parents can't really say anything about safety issues,Boooya! all the air riffles and stuffs are provided free :D I'm going to be #1 sniper one day.

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Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:25 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
Well if you're persevering you can reach your goal...

and you have an air rifle now? 4.5mm(.177) or 5.5mm(.22) ?

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Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:28 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
Sniper is a Good job Mate!
I don't have my own yet, they just provide it to me while I'm on the range. And I think we are shooting .22. When I reach certian level I'll be shooting .22LR riffle which uses real ammunitions!

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Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:43 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
I got the short barrel because that's all they had and it is a much more convenient size. As for ear protection I couldn't afford any and 3 rapid shots made my ears feel similar to when a car tire blew out less than 4" from my face and gave me a "sound injury", but I have found some now and am more than willing to use it.
I figured out how to get that useless plug out and it feels a lot better knowing that I can load 5+1 shells in it now.
As for safety I am overly paranoid with the thing and usually check it many times and keep it unloaded when not in use since I don't really plan on using it for home defense; just skeet, target, recreation, and pest control.
Luckily I have a 12/20 gauge shotgun cleaning kit lying around because I couldn't afford a .50cal cleaning kit at the time.
Thanks for the loading tip, that makes a lot of sense and seems much safer though I thought dry firing was considered bad for it.

Is it bad for the gun to store it cocked?

Also all I could afford was target shot and am hoping to get some real shells this weekend, do you prefer slugs or buck shot? And would a choke and/or sight be useful?

Edit: As for the recoil, I have held it into my shoulder quite firmly but I guess I just gotta get used to the awesome kick it has and I would like to try hip firing it.


Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:56 am
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
@Texas"Joselito"cat :lol:
Wich rifles you guys use?

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Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:12 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
legendario13 wrote:
@Texas"Joselito"cat :lol:
Wich rifles you guys use?

huhhhhh? I don't get the reference
I don't know I'll find it out pretty soon, so far I only learned the theory of the air riffle

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Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:33 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
Thanks to my tunblr blog, here is my Tokarev!

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That is my gloved hand holding it.

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Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:42 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
@legendario
So, I shot .177 cal competition air riffle. one of those expensive ones 'around 350 bucks. I had to shoot from10m away from the target with an iron sight, and grouping was around 2.3 cm. And I got rewarded with level 2 air riffle badge :D. (In scale of 1 to 4 or 5, level 4 or 5 goes to national 10m air riffle competition )
'Sniper is a good Job Mate!'

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Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:37 am
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
$350 is cheap for a competition rifle of any type.

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Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:47 am
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
For kids like me, it sounds expensive :P I have to buy myself a air riffle when I get pretty good at it. So I'll save some money to get 800 bucks one.

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Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:38 am
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
Yeah, I'd save up more than that.

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Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:17 pm
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
@Texas
That sounds awesome, and congratulations!
If youre going to invest in equipment better to do it well. Even if its somewhat expensive...

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Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:28 pm
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Location: Home, home on the range. Gun range, that is.
Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
Sarnoff:
Sorry it took me so long to get back with you! Anyways, let me try and address your questions and concerns.

First off, it's actually good that you didn't get the .50-cal cleaning kit-- a 12 gauge shotgun is .73-caliber!

Yeah, the plug is useless and a pain if you're not doing bird hunting, but if you are going plugless is quite illegal and therefore a bad idea (pest control for crows, etc. doesn't count).

Dry firing? It's not terrible for the gun if you're doing not doing it a few hundred times a day, and the firing pin is modern (I made the mistake of dry-firing a pre-1900 Mauser until its firing pin broke... pretty embarrasing). If you want to do a ton of dry practice and/or just play it really safe, just pick up some inert practice rounds, also known as "snap caps." Just be really sure that you're practicing with the snap caps and not live ammo!

Storing the gun cocked probably won't do anything bad to it, but I always like to drop the hammer/striker (on an empty chamber!) before I put a gun away. The hammer spring is kinda really necessary for the gun to work, so there's no reason to store it under tension and risk wearing it out early.

Honestly, birdshot is all you'll need for general fun and pest-control. Buckshot and slugs are pretty much only for hunting and/or defense (with slugs being better for the former and buck better for the latter), plus they cost quite a bit more than the target loads.

At this point, spend the money you would otherwise put into a sight and mounting hardware ($80+) or having your gun threaded for choke tubes ($50+ not including chokes, wrench, etc.) towards ammo. Get to know your gun extremely well first, and then throw some accessories on that sucker.

The trick is to roll with the recoil, I guess. Lean into the gun (most beginners do just the opposite, and that's bad) with your offhand foot forward. Hip firing is only good for making a loud noise and a clean miss, unfortunately-- the stock's there for a reason. On the other hand, shotguns get really fun when you figure out how to pump with the recoil: BOOMchunkaBOOMchunkaBOOMchunkaBOOMchunka.


RBH:
I'm digging the Tok. Which caliber is yours again?
Perhaps I should also throw up a pic of my M&P, which is a fine handgun as well...


Texascat & L13:
As the old saying goes, "Buy once, cry once."


He of the terrible sleep habits,
GunRacer


Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:34 am
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
I meant I had it left over from when I couldn't afford the .50 cal kit for my muzzleloader. Sorry if I worded that badly.

Would used shotgun shells work for that? I don't think I have ever seen a snap cap.

I have stored it uncocked now but I kind of like the pump being locked when handling it.

I purchased a box of 3" Winchester buckshot for it last weekend but haven't tried it out yet. I noticed the shell was noticiably bigger than the 2 3/4" target round, is there any differences with shotgun shell size? I am kind of torn between birdshot and slugs now though. Birdshot seems more much more likely to hit little animals and slugs seem like they would be more fun to shoot misc. items with and punch holes in things, not really sure where my priorities are yet. I have noticed the huge price difference and calculated that each target load is about $.35 and each buckshot is $.86 so I guess I'll try to preserve the buckshot for more fun things.

The only real mods I currently want for it is one of those sleeves that goes around the stock that holds shells, a sling, and a pistol grip. Is there any point to getting a gun case? I just keep it in my guitar case and it works just fine and I can carry it on my back. Also do you know anything about pistol grips? They just seem like it would be more convienient to store and carry with one.


Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:30 am
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Post Re: Gun Topic #Bang bAng baNg banG
GunRacer wrote:
Sarnoff:

RBH:
I'm digging the Tok. Which caliber is yours again?
Perhaps I should also throw up a pic of my M&P, which is a fine handgun as well...


Mine is 7.62 X 25mm. There are versions from the Serbian company Zastava that come in &.62mm, 9mm Parabellum and .40 S&W if you want a little more variety.

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Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:00 am
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