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2014/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff 
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Devil Skirrl
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Post 2014/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
[ The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff ]

Title Text: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐ

It all makes perfect sense!

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:10 am
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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
"Hey I haven't been summoned from beyond or infused with rage demons I HAVE TO IMPROVISE!"


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Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:02 am
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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Sometimes I wish I had serial-killer-teleport-behind-you powers but not to murder, just to jump scare people.


Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:03 am
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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Ju- ... Just do it, yes it might be stupid but the rhyme goes like that, so go ahead Vera ... Or improvise and shoot the judge

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:04 am
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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
The expressions on Grape's face have been great these past few pages. I just wish I could see her eyes!

I can see why Marvin, I mean "Dr. Armstrong" was so easy to fool, drunk on orange soda!


Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:05 am
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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Some call it teleportation. I prefer to refer to it as the power of lurking. I find it very fun ;)


Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:06 am
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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
I could get used to this devious side of Tarot. Who knew what a great villain she would make?
:roll:

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
I like how they refer to the paper bags in the explanation. Way to break character! :roll:

What is tarot even holding? Is that a gigantic pencil?

Hey, the judge was right in the original story... All this explanation took place in a message in a bottle that the judge threw out to sea before killing himself because of reasons.

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
poor marvin. Not even as a doctor can he get the other pets to-- IS THAT A CAN OF ORANGE SODA?

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:30 am
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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Well, okay, let's go with that explanation.

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:40 am
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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
I feel ashamed, proud, and ashamed of being proud of remembering this, but today marks exactly nine months since the day we saw Pete's one year ultimatum.

Duster wrote:
I could get used to this devious side of Tarot. Who knew what a great villain she would make?
:roll:

*Raises hand!*

copper wrote:
Hey, the judge was right in the original story... All this explanation took place in a message in a bottle that the judge threw out to sea before killing himself because of reasons.

I assume it was something of the sort of "every crime gets punished, no exceptions."
That's something I can get behind, really!

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Your FACE is stupid! There, did that make you wanna do it? No... not even a little???

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
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Before Teleportation, there was cheap hiding spots. Noone ever checks under the bed anymore.

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
You dare to give us the Wilhelm scream, GameCobra?

The Judge outlines the plot
from how he proceeded
and who, exactly, he got
to play along with the deed.
The Doctor wasn't smart,
the Doctor wasn't savvy
The Judge, for his part
turned him into gravy.
Now the Judge talks once more
of old psychology.
He promises, as before,
he'll give the eulogy.
One furry Indian, knowing the game's done,
refuses the ending as then there'd be none.

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Welsh Halfwit wrote:
You dare to give us the Wilhelm scream, GameCobra?


Yes I do!

But only because so many other good screams have no names to them. X3

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Silly Zealot wrote:
copper wrote:
Hey, the judge was right in the original story... All this explanation took place in a message in a bottle that the judge threw out to sea before killing himself because of reasons.

I assume it was something of the sort of "every crime gets punished, no exceptions."
That's something I can get behind, really!


Spoiler tag just in case, but at this point the cat is more or less out of the bag:

In the book, the judge was suffering from a fatal illness. (One of those vague, hand-wave-y ones from bad novels, where the symptoms are conveniently whatever would make the story work. So: he has only a few months left to live, he's just had surgery, but he's still active and energetic enough to set everything up and carry out a massive plan. Hey, if you want medical accuracy, you should be reading R. Austin Freeman instead of Agatha Christie anyway.) He says in his note-in-a-bottle that he has always had a sadistic streak and wanted to commit a murder, just for fun, but he has always restrained himself. Now that the doctors have told him he's going to die anyway, though, he decided to cut loose. But he had a scruple against hurting innocent people, so he decided to kill a bunch of people who he considered were murderers who were otherwise un-punishable. (Oh, and he also says that he killed the ones who he thought were least culpable first. Which tells you something about Agatha Christie's worldview, since Grape's character is the last one to die... after the corrupt detective, the careless vehicular homicide, and the guy who killed a whole bunch of foreigners, and at the time the book was published nobody, as far as I know, thought this was at all unusual.)


Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:25 am
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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
GameCobra wrote:
Welsh Halfwit wrote:
You dare to give us the Wilhelm scream, GameCobra?


Yes I do!

But only because so many other good screams have no names to them. X3

For the few wondering what the Wilhelm scream is, here's a non-exhaustive compilation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdbYsoEasio

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Almost off-screen death!

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Welsh Halfwit wrote:
For the few wondering what the Wilhelm scream is, here's a non-exhaustive compilation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdbYsoEasio


It's fun and informative! *Rubs his chin* Though in a funny twist... Marvin being a cat and all... could not possibly sound like Goof~ *Bricked*

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
GameCobra wrote:
Welsh Halfwit wrote:
You dare to give us the Wilhelm scream, GameCobra?


Yes I do!

But only because so many other good screams have no names to them. X3

I'm actually thinking it ended up a bit like this.

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20th century fox? Given that this is the year 2014, that fox must be dead by now. Sadface! : (

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
The Vicar wrote:
Spoiler tag just in case, but at this point the cat is more or less out of the bag:

In the book, the judge was suffering from a fatal illness. (One of those vague, hand-wave-y ones from bad novels, where the symptoms are conveniently whatever would make the story work. So: he has only a few months left to live, he's just had surgery, but he's still active and energetic enough to set everything up and carry out a massive plan. Hey, if you want medical accuracy, you should be reading R. Austin Freeman instead of Agatha Christie anyway.) He says in his note-in-a-bottle that he has always had a sadistic streak and wanted to commit a murder, just for fun, but he has always restrained himself. Now that the doctors have told him he's going to die anyway, though, he decided to cut loose. But he had a scruple against hurting innocent people, so he decided to kill a bunch of people who he considered were murderers who were otherwise un-punishable. (Oh, and he also says that he killed the ones who he thought were least culpable first. Which tells you something about Agatha Christie's worldview, since Grape's character is the last one to die... after the corrupt detective, the careless vehicular homicide, and the guy who killed a whole bunch of foreigners, and at the time the book was published nobody, as far as I know, thought this was at all unusual.)


I thought the order of the deaths was fairly well explained. 1: Max because he was amoral and would never have felt the guilt this psychological game was supposed to inflict. 2: Squeak because she likely went along with the plan more at her husband's insistence. 3: Sabrina because (he) had pretty much come to the conclusion that what (he) did was wrong by (him)self and was prepared to die.
Now that the least culpable and the amoral are out, we move to the more culpable. 4: Joey because his was a crime of opportunity (and because he was easiest to get to). 5: Bailey because she believed she was in the right when she committed the crime but was finally starting to feel the guilt. 6: Tarot is the murderer though ends up being "innocent" of the original stated crime if not underhanded in (his) methods, and the murders on the island are deliberately left morally grey.
Now we are left with the most culpable. These are all about on the same level, though I think the order still works. 7: Marvin because the actual crime was due to drunkenness, which is not an excuse in any way. 8: Fido because he did not intend for the man to die, though this does not excuse his actions especially as he is an authority figure (being in law enforcement). 9: Peanut because he left many men to die in order to save himself -- morally grey cases similar to this have arisen over the years, but this one seems to lean to the morally wrong side. 10: Grape because she deliberately sent a child out to drown in the ocean so she could be with the man she loved.
So... yeah, this line up seems about right to me. It seems as though you could interchange Grape and Peanut, though the Judge seems to have the same mind in the end even though he did assume Grape would be the one to prevail (and then hang herself). I don't know what worldview you have, but to me having a child go out to sea knowing he will drown ranks pretty high up there.

Yeah, it's all pretty much wrapped up, but whatever. GIANT WALL OF REDACTED TEXT!!! :P

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
The Vicar wrote:
Spoiler tag just in case, but at this point the cat is more or less out of the bag:

WRONG: The cat is GOING to get in the bag! 8-)

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
copper wrote:
I like how they refer to the paper bags in the explanation. Way to break character! :roll:
That also made me giggle. :lol:

copper wrote:
What is tarot even holding? Is that a gigantic pencil?
That's still the billard cue.

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
The Vicar wrote:
Spoiler tag just in case, but at this point the cat is more or less out of the bag
Surprise, it's not a cat, it's a pomeranian!

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Iceheart wrote:
Sometimes I wish I had serial-killer-teleport-behind-you powers but not to murder, just to jump scare people.

You have no idea how much fun that you be, and who knows how far you can teleport with that power too.


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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Argent wrote:
The Vicar wrote:
Spoiler tag just in case, but at this point the cat is more or less out of the bag
Surprise, it's not a cat, it's a pomeranian!

The Pomeranian's out of the bag! *bricked*

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Duster wrote:
I could get used to this devious side of Tarot. Who knew what a great villain she would make?
:roll:



I knew someone with a Pomeranian. That dog was cute, but evil. So I am not surprised Tarot enjoys taking a turn as an evil character! :)


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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Welsh Halfwit wrote:
You dare to give us the Wilhelm scream, GameCobra?


I prefer the Long Scream myself. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf6_hok4-lo

The Vicar wrote:
Spoiler tag just in case, but at this point the cat is more or less out of the bag...

(spoiler redacted from this reply for space considerations)


It should be noted that the doctor did help him set the caper up. It's likely he assisted with anything the judge couldn't physically handle by himself.

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Kitch wrote:
It should be noted that the doctor did help him set the caper up. It's likely he assisted with anything the judge couldn't physically handle by himself.


Like trying to reach up to tie the hangmans noose as Tarot was too short to do it herself? :mrgreen:

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
*plop*
...
...
..."I'm Fine!!"


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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Satsura wrote:
*plop*
...
...
..."I'm Fine!!"

*Drops anchor in to 'save' you.*

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Dissension wrote:
[ The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff ]

Title Text: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᴬᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐᵃₐ

It all makes perfect sense!


Remember to add a repeating line over the a, like in math.

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Obbl wrote:
The Vicar wrote:
Spoiler tag just in case, but at this point the cat is more or less out of the bag:

In the book, the judge was suffering from a fatal illness. (One of those vague, hand-wave-y ones from bad novels, where the symptoms are conveniently whatever would make the story work. So: he has only a few months left to live, he's just had surgery, but he's still active and energetic enough to set everything up and carry out a massive plan. Hey, if you want medical accuracy, you should be reading R. Austin Freeman instead of Agatha Christie anyway.) He says in his note-in-a-bottle that he has always had a sadistic streak and wanted to commit a murder, just for fun, but he has always restrained himself. Now that the doctors have told him he's going to die anyway, though, he decided to cut loose. But he had a scruple against hurting innocent people, so he decided to kill a bunch of people who he considered were murderers who were otherwise un-punishable. (Oh, and he also says that he killed the ones who he thought were least culpable first. Which tells you something about Agatha Christie's worldview, since Grape's character is the last one to die... after the corrupt detective, the careless vehicular homicide, and the guy who killed a whole bunch of foreigners, and at the time the book was published nobody, as far as I know, thought this was at all unusual.)


I thought the order of the deaths was fairly well explained. 1: Max because he was amoral and would never have felt the guilt this psychological game was supposed to inflict. 2: Squeak because she likely went along with the plan more at her husband's insistence. 3: Sabrina because (he) had pretty much come to the conclusion that what (he) did was wrong by (him)self and was prepared to die.
Now that the least culpable and the amoral are out, we move to the more culpable. 4: Joey because his was a crime of opportunity (and because he was easiest to get to). 5: Bailey because she believed she was in the right when she committed the crime but was finally starting to feel the guilt. 6: Tarot is the murderer though ends up being "innocent" of the original stated crime if not underhanded in (his) methods, and the murders on the island are deliberately left morally grey.
Now we are left with the most culpable. These are all about on the same level, though I think the order still works. 7: Marvin because the actual crime was due to drunkenness, which is not an excuse in any way. 8: Fido because he did not intend for the man to die, though this does not excuse his actions especially as he is an authority figure (being in law enforcement). 9: Peanut because he left many men to die in order to save himself -- morally grey cases similar to this have arisen over the years, but this one seems to lean to the morally wrong side. 10: Grape because she deliberately sent a child out to drown in the ocean so she could be with the man she loved.
So... yeah, this line up seems about right to me. It seems as though you could interchange Grape and Peanut, though the Judge seems to have the same mind in the end even though he did assume Grape would be the one to prevail (and then hang herself). I don't know what worldview you have, but to me having a child go out to sea knowing he will drown ranks pretty high up there.

Yeah, it's all pretty much wrapped up, but whatever. GIANT WALL OF REDACTED TEXT!!! :P


Okay seriously that was informative, thanks^^
I'm just curious how the Story will End here.


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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
It's not all doctor's fault, the judge used him very well. Now, is really Grape feeling like in the judge's prediction and will really do like the nursery rhyme says? The serial killers have that sort of power? Actually, they always appear behind the victim at the last second. Another cliché, but it's too real...
What a great interpretation, Tarot, she deserves a special mention as a comic villain. ;)

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Iceheart wrote:
Sometimes I wish I had serial-killer-teleport-behind-you powers but not to murder, just to jump scare people.

It would make for a very good Slender Man gig though.

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Cesco wrote:
It's not all doctor's fault, the judge used him very well. Now, is really Grape feeling like in the judge's prediction and will really do like the nursery rhyme says? The serial killers have that sort of power? Actually, they always appear behind the victim at the last second. Another cliché, but it's too real...
Like the Igors in Discworld.

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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Tarot : "- I am judge , jury and executioner .................. Call me Judge Dredd"

Grape gets her gun again and blasts Tarot :lol:


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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Obbl wrote:
So... yeah, this line up seems about right to me. It seems as though you could interchange Grape and Peanut, though the Judge seems to have the same mind in the end even though he did assume Grape would be the one to prevail (and then hang herself). I don't know what worldview you have, but to me having a child go out to sea knowing he will drown ranks pretty high up there.


Grape's character committed murder by encouraging a little boy who thought he was stronger than he actually was to try to swim out as far as he thought he could manage. That's certainly culpable behavior, but is that the same magnitude of, say, lying under oath to put an innocent man in prison, where he dies, leaving an unsupported wife and child (the detective's crime)? Someone who already has a bunch of driving violations but continues to drive recklessly and kills a couple of kids (the guy who died first)? Or someone who kills a bunch of people at once (Peanut's character)? Heck, for that matter, there's the murder not shown in this cartoon version, the guy who acted as an agent for the judge and bought the house, made the record, etc. etc. etc., who was an unrepentant criminal whose crimes included being a drug dealer with at least one client who committed suicide, and he actually died before anyone else in the book.

Frankly, I take the view that if you permit someone to do something stupid, which they wanted to do but which turns out to be fatal, it's certainly immoral, but it's definitely of a lesser magnitude than if you kill someone who doesn't want to die. After all, don't we comfort survivors with "that's the way (s)he would have wanted to go"? Were I to write this story, and attempt to keep the "later deaths are guiltier people" thing going, Grape would have died very early on. So would the butler.


(Wow, discussing a spoiler at length looks scary, doesn't it?)

Kitch wrote:
It should be noted that the doctor did help him set the caper up. It's likely he assisted with anything the judge couldn't physically handle by himself.


Actually, the doctor only helped starting just before the judge's faked death, and died too soon to help with a lot of physical labor — the judge moves around chairs and sets up that noose and throws the heavy bear-shaped clock at the detective from an upper-story window. In the movie version I've seen — if I'm remembering correctly; I own a copy of the novel and have it right here with me now, but I haven't seen the movie in ages — the judge isn't particularly portrayed as enfeebled in any way at all.

There was someone assisting, in the novel, who isn't shown here. (A multiple criminal who acted as an agent for the judge, and who he killed by giving him a poisoned tablet claiming it was medicine.) But he doesn't do anything strenuous, just makes orders by mail and things. The judge is just magically able to do things on his own, despite being elderly, ill, and recovering from surgery.


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Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:27 am
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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
The Vicar wrote:
Grape's character committed murder by encouraging a little boy who thought he was stronger than he actually was to try to swim out as far as he thought he could manage. That's certainly culpable behavior, but is that the same magnitude of, say, lying under oath to put an innocent man in prison, where he dies, leaving an unsupported wife and child (the detective's crime)? Someone who already has a bunch of driving violations but continues to drive recklessly and kills a couple of kids (the guy who died first)? Or someone who kills a bunch of people at once (Peanut's character)? Heck, for that matter, there's the murder not shown in this cartoon version, the guy who acted as an agent for the judge and bought the house, made the record, etc. etc. etc., who was an unrepentant criminal whose crimes included being a drug dealer with at least one client who committed suicide, and he actually died before anyone else in the book.

Frankly, I take the view that if you permit someone to do something stupid, which they wanted to do but which turns out to be fatal, it's certainly immoral, but it's definitely of a lesser magnitude than if you kill someone who doesn't want to die. After all, don't we comfort survivors with "that's the way (s)he would have wanted to go"? Were I to write this story, and attempt to keep the "later deaths are guiltier people" thing going, Grape would have died very early on. So would the butler.


(Wow, discussing a spoiler at length looks scary, doesn't it?)

Yeah, not buying it. If Grape were to have tossed him in when he was incapable of swimming, I doubt you'd be singing quite the same tune. And to me it is the same mostly because he was still a child and didn't know any better. I agree that sometimes you have to let someone do the stupid thing they want to do before they will realize it's a stupid thing to do, and sometimes that can be detrimental to their life. But Grape had this idea for a while (premeditated) and with full knowledge that the child would die (murder). In fact, she was worried that by some miracle the child would survive and be able to tell the adults who it was that had sanctioned his perilous swim (full knowledge of consequences). So there's not much anyone could do to convince me otherwise.
As for Max's character (the car driver), I already explained why he went first. And at the very least, the detective assumed the guy was going to survive and get out at some point (again, this doesn't excuse his actions in any way, but his intent was not murder, again, at the very least). I already explained that Peanut and Grape (and possibly even Fido the detective if you wish) could easily have changed places and the the Judge himself was of this mind. But by this point, the judge had little capability for influence on the order of death. Plus, the reason he hoped Grape was last is because she was the one he'd been preparing her mental state for her to go quietly to her own death (important for setting up the end scene) and less because she was more culpable than Peanut.
As for the drug dealer, the judge killed him "off-screen" because he wanted ten people on the island and had to be there himself, but since that robbed him of one of the ten, he disposed of his criminal messenger as well. So he's not part of the order.
So, to sum up, Grape killed a child, who simply wasn't old enough to realize his limitations. The judge did have a few deaths that were more of the opportunity for him than for the order (though they did manage to fall mostly in line). The judge admitted that Peanut and Grape could have switched places and he would have been just as happy. And the butler died 4th which is pretty early as is.

Yep, spoiler discussions are all dark and spooky. :P

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Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:41 am
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Post Re: 2013/02/24 - The Ol' Push-'Em-Off-A-Cliff
Just casually holding a billiard cue...for...emphasis? Should probably get it out of Grape's face though, it's rude to point =P


Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:47 pm
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