Reply to topic  [ 176 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
What would you do if you were in Kings position? 
Author Message
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:35 pm
Posts: 4280
Location: Ohio
Post What would you do if you were in Kings position?
Knowing everything that has happened to King up to now, what would you do? Would you choose to stay a dog or be a human again? How would you feel about The Cosmic Nerds?

I would try to make the best of the situation with the wolves I think I might even enjoy living with them. As for what I would choose I would actually want to become a human again myself though it would be kind of a hard choice. As for the Nerds I would tell Tarot to tell them if it doesn't involve turning me back into a human or saving my life, to stay far away from me because if anything like this happened again I would make it my life mission to ruin their dumb little game the best I could anyway I could. Though I would be using less PG language at this point.

_________________
Image
Image


Last edited by IceKitsune on Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:17 am
Profile

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:38 am
Posts: 579
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
I MIGHT be a little resentful of the universe, if this were not so long ago. :?

As for the choice................... I do NOT know. :( :( :(


Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:19 am
Profile
Online
Game Master
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 6:53 am
Posts: 14138
Location: Italy
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
I'd stay King!
I'd have an awesome friend.
STILL I'd have a chance to get more awesome friends.
I'd lead an interesting life.
And I'd live with wolves!
Also, nicer heaven! :D

_________________
Image
Image


Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:28 am
Profile WWW
Bringing Foxy Back
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:32 am
Posts: 15423
Location: Nephelokokkygia
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
I would stay as a dog and try to be a bit nicer to the other pets. He obviously doesn't have much of a life waiting for him as a human.

_________________
Image
Questions? Comments? Concerns? Friendly banter? Feel free to click the "PM" button below!


Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:29 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:35 pm
Posts: 4280
Location: Ohio
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
No Sleet this is YOU as King not Joel. You were turned into King by Pete.

_________________
Image
Image


Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:30 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:23 pm
Posts: 5458
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
I'd choose to be human again, but first I'd tell Fox who I really was, and "get my affairs in order" before I ceased to be a dog for good.

_________________
Image
PF chars

"We have to do this take again! HAL, do it with a LOT less emotion!"
"I'm sorry Stan, I'm afraid I can't do that."
--Phoenix

pair-o-dimes dot blogspot dot com


Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:31 am
Profile

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:38 am
Posts: 579
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
EDIT: Okay, I overreacted to that. But it was still in VERY poor taste. -_-


Last edited by PhoenixAsper on Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:34 am
Profile
Bringing Foxy Back
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:32 am
Posts: 15423
Location: Nephelokokkygia
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
IceKitsune wrote:
No Sleet this is YOU as King not Joel. You were turned into King by Pete.
Oh. I'd be tempted to stay a dog, but I'd ultimately try to become a human again because I think that's how I can do the most good. :3

_________________
Image
Questions? Comments? Concerns? Friendly banter? Feel free to click the "PM" button below!


Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:43 am
Profile WWW
Former Mod of the Aura
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:52 pm
Posts: 3999
Location: England
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
You know, I'd be a little tempted to do what Sinder said myself...then again, running from awesome occurring isn't something I do often.

I'd probably just be like King, except try even harder to get back to normal. :P

_________________
Image
PF - Awesome
PF - Sly
PF - Brill
Image


Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:51 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:32 pm
Posts: 1978
Location: In a house unless I'm not in a house.
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
Simple, I have nothing waiting for me as a human. I would stay a dog, so much easier to live that kind of life.

_________________
Sent from my conifer.


Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:36 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:31 pm
Posts: 135
Images: 0
Location: *points* Over there.
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
I have absolutely no idea. I suck at predicting this kind of thing.

_________________
Hey guys! I make art!


Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:28 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 23, 2011 5:46 pm
Posts: 139
Location: Tucson, AZ
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
reading All the King's Men, the complaints King has with being a dog seem to have mostly been fixed by moving in with the wolves.

If I were King.... hmmm.... it's difficult for me to think because King's personality is quite different from my own.
If I were king, I'd probably stay a dog. My human life so far had been nothing but hurt and disappointment and now I actually have friends and am somewhat happy. The choice would still be a very hard one, though.

_________________
Image


Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:50 am
Profile

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 9:31 pm
Posts: 776
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
I'd...I'm not sure. Similar personalities between him and I, but...After thinking about it for a good long time and weighing the pros and cons, I'd probably end up staying a dog. Personally, I don't like most people, so I'd be fine dealing with just pets for the most part. Sure, I'd miss my family and all, but I wouldn't be nearly as bored with life in general.

I'd have to find a way to get my WoW fix though. D:


Last edited by Daggy on Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:55 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:31 pm
Posts: 95
Location: Milliways
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
If I personally was turned into King I would have to return to being a human.
I'm pretty sure my family would be very worried about my sudden transformation into a dog and the fact that gods were fighting over me.

Though, if I was Joel I don't know what I would do.
I'd probably explain the situation to Fox and see what he says. If he is alright with it, I would tell him I was turning back into a human, but that I still wanted to be friends (because, dog or not, he's the only friend Joel has). Chances are, if Fox was okay with me being Joel, he would realize the change I've made and have his father drop the charges so I don't go to jail. Then, I would move to Babylon Gardens as a human and adopt a pet. Still though, it is a big risk telling Fox, because he may not like the idea and then I am either alone as a dog, or in prison as a human.

So, tough call...

_________________
Image
"You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free.
"
~Clarence Darrow


Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:07 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:26 am
Posts: 1752
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
I would remain a dog. If I were to be human again, I would have no way to explain why did I ran from the police. The jail time would be even longer and there was the high chance of losing the good friends made so far.

_________________
Shameless advertisement of my fanfics: http://www.fanfiction.net/u/880961/Angelus-alvus


Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:22 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:08 am
Posts: 1998
Images: 4
Location: Somewhere in this universe
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
If I were Joel, I would stay as a dog.

But if I were myself, back to human of course, duh. I think I will be far more useful as a human.

_________________
http://aquablast-fon.deviantart.com/


Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:13 pm
Profile
Online
Game Master
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 6:53 am
Posts: 14138
Location: Italy
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
Aquablast wrote:
If I were Joel, I would stay as a dog.

But if I were myself, back to human of course, duh. I think I will be far more useful as a human.

The irony of it is, he's BEING more useful now than when he was a human. Sasha is a perfect example! If Bino ever decided to allow him into the club to do the equivalent of social work for other pets, King would jump at the occasion.

_________________
Image
Image


Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:56 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 3871
Location: Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
Move to Canada.

Then see if they would travel as far as Ontario as the human-thinking Corgi. noone would suspect a thing.

probably even get my own TV show.

_________________
3 words - Liquid Metal Fur
Image


Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:35 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:06 pm
Posts: 465
Location: On the streets, checkin out this forum on a stolen iPhone.
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
If I were King, I'd stay as a dog. Switching back over to a human seems bad and that it'd be a lot to go through with, and staying as a dog would be a lot of easier, atleast I think it would. Besides, it seems King has a good thing going as a dog anyway, he has friends and people that'll listen to him. And I agree with ChewyChewy, I'd tell Fox who I was too, seems like the right thing to do anyway.

_________________
Off the Air.
Image
Image You'll be going like this the whole time.
Dakotah- S5, P7, E7, C5, I6, A6, L4


Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:32 pm
Profile WWW
Game Master
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:16 am
Posts: 3483
Location: Fairfield, Illinois
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
Wall of text approacheth

*deep breath*

Okay, first of all, lets take a look at the a religious perspective that some may be missing. First, lets take a look at King's human name: Joel Zecharia Robinson. Now, I'm not Rick and this is just fan speculation, but I think I have something here. Joel is two characters mentioned in the Bible. First, a prophet, second a (gasp) king (and a good one too). Zecharia is also a prophet, heck, an entire book of the Bible. Robinson is a little hard to read and I have some theory's but none targeting for this discussion. Moving on. So, why are the biblical references important? Because from this, we determine that either a) Joel has had some religious upbringing, some, if only a little, but some (his mother/father may not have named him so obvious otherwise) b) Joel went to sunday school as a kid and quit going after him and the pets ran away. Even if both a and b are wrong, Joel would have to have some religious influences in his/his parents life. Okay, so, why is this important?

Morality. Lets take the good ol' dogs club easter egg hunt into perspective. Granted, the worst thing that happened was a house burning down (as a result of dogs actions or not, we don't know, but bear with me). Now, a dog, because of their easy going nature, would be disciplined, and would be genuinely sorry for what they had done, and most likely, would never do such a thing again, even if it was by accident (again just guessing here because Rick doesn't let know much about the pet's maturity levels except that they're teenagers around that age). Let's take it from the human perspective. A group of teens are messing around and having a party. Someone does something stupid (most likely) and the house burns down. Guess what the kids are going to say? I don't think I need to play out that scenario because I'm pretty sure we're all familar with human psycology at that age. (Yes, I know that that analogy may get questioned, but lets roll with it.)

So, let's compare. Joel, as a young adult, would not do certain things (ie beating the crap out of his neighboor, attempting to burn a tree down because a cat's in it breaking the rules of their game, etc). However, someone like Bino, Fox, or Peanut, would. Because they only find out that something is bad, if they're told it is. (not sure, though, just going by how things are set up, course Rick could have something different but this is what I'm reading) This brings the argument that there are no bad dogs, just bad behaviors. So you simply correct the behaviour of a dog, and he obeys. Not so with young adults. They rebel, ignore, insult, etc over everything. A dog may do something and not know it's wrong. A human will do something they know is wrong and enjoy it anyway.

In otherwords. Joel's dilemma is a moral one. If he says, 'heh, I wanna be a dog'. And then he dies and goes to dog heaven, he's more or less cheating the system. Because, as a dog, if he does something he knows is wrong, it (again, just speculating here) won't be held against him because he's a dog. Which means he'll never be forced to make up with Fox, continue lying, and ducking his punishment from the justice system. All the while gloating about being able to make it to dog heaven easy while the humans have to get to heaven 'the hard way'. King knows this. As Joel, however, he'll need to make it up to Fox, (hopefully without breaking their relationship), making it right between them. He will also have to face his prison sentence, but, if he plays his cards right, may not be that long at all. That way, both those facets of his life will be clear, and, so long as he keeps it that way after prison, he can hold his head high in heaven when he gets there. I mean, think of it this way. Would you want to live as King with all that doubt, fear, regret, and lies on your head all the time? Not me! Something to think about. Sure, we'll all miss that cute corgi and his mouthful of expressions, but at least he'll be walking proud and honest. And that, is why at least I think that King does not (or I think should not, again, Rick may think otherwise as always) want to remain King.

Thank you for reading!

_________________
Also on twitter: https://twitter.com/xhunterko


Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:04 pm
Profile
Extremerator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:19 pm
Posts: 3958
Location: a place of settlement, activity, or residence
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
xhunterko wrote:
Okay, first of all, lets take a look at the a religious perspective that some may be missing. First, lets take a look at King's human name: Joel Zecharia Robinson. Now, I'm not Rick and this is just fan speculation, but I think I have something here. Joel is two characters mentioned in the Bible. First, a prophet, second a (gasp) king (and a good one too). Zecharia is also a prophet, heck, an entire book of the Bible. Robinson is a little hard to read and I have some theory's but none targeting for this discussion. Moving on. So, why are the biblical references important? Because from this, we determine that either a) Joel has had some religious upbringing, some, if only a little, but some (his mother/father may not have named him so obvious otherwise) b) Joel went to sunday school as a kid and quit going after him and the pets ran away. Even if both a and b are wrong, Joel would have to have some religious influences in his/his parents life. Okay, so, why is this important?


Well, "Joel Robinson" is most likely meant as an MST3K shoutout (Not in universe, considering Joel's parents would thus be fans of the show before it was even produced, and that would involve weird time junk, either that or Joel is much younger than he appears) but there is certainly something interesting about the name.

_________________
Image
Image Image


Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:08 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:36 am
Posts: 1703
Location: New Jersey (The Abyss)
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
xhunterko wrote:
Even if both a and b are wrong, Joel would have to have some religious influences in his/his parents life.

You're assuming all that because his name happens to include names mentioned in the Bible? My first question is this: why? Why the need to bring religion into this at all? Your statements in your final paragraph are perfectly valid without the need to speculate on Joel's religious upbringing (or lack thereof). You're absolutely correct that King's dilemma is a moral one at it's core, but I don't see the point of stabbing randomly in the dark at his past to justify that statement. It just seems pointless. :|

As for your comparison of "dog morality" versus "human morality", you're missing the fact that these aren't normal cats and dogs in Housepets. They're anthropomorphized to the point that they can engage in normal conversation with their owners, as well as the other animals of the Housepets universe. Granted, they don't appear to be held accountable by the law the way that humans are (or at least, the PETA guys were), but that doesn't mean their morality is any different. Take one of your own examples: Bino. In this arc especially, he shows that he knows fully well what is right from wrong and blatantly ignores it for the sake of keeping King from getting his watch back.

My point is, we don't see separate moralities among pets and humans. Instead, we see pets who know right from wrong, just as humans do, who make decisions based on their own personalities and relationships with certain other characters. There is no distinct separation between human and dog (or cat).

As for your closing paragraph, again, I agree that his dilemma is a moral one. Where I have to disagree is with your assumptions that in "cheating the system", as you put it, by staying a dog that King will be "gloating about being able to make it to dog heaven". Not once in this comic have we seen a side of Joel/King where he would be the type to gloat about getting out of punishment Scot free. Even when he kidnapped Fox (or rather, helped his partner kidnap Fox) while he was a part of PETA, he appeared to be completely unaware of just how terrible a job he had gotten himself into until he was finally arrested for it. In that way, he also contradicts your earlier speculations of "human vs dog" morality. I mean, he's already had the thought cross his mind of confessing to Fox who he really is; he just thought better of it, given the situation. I feel like he's going to confess to Fox eventually. Just at a time he feels is more opportune to do so.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway, long tangent aside, I personally would opt to remain as King. I would do as I feel King is doing now, and wait for a better time to tell Fox who I really am, and hope that he'll understand how much I'd changed since aiding in his kidnapping. And whether he wanted to be friends with me still or not, I'd do my best to move with my life and work to better myself.

As for how I feel about having my life altered (oftentimes drastically) by nerdy beings of celestial origin... I dunno. I feel like even in real life, it's entirely possible that very thing could be happening without my knowledge, so... I wouldn't mind? Maybe? Given that in this situation, I would know for sure that they've altered my life in the past and may very well do it again, I'd probably be less complacent about it than I am now. Also knowing that there's precious little I can actually do to stop them (and the fact they're playing a universe-wide version of D&D), I might even find myself more amused than anything. I love socializing with other nerds, so hell, I might find myself making friends with them before I make friends with all the other dogs around the neighborhood. XD

In other words: I've got no frakking clue how I'd react to finding out a gryphon and a dragon are playing D&D (or Universes and Unrealities, as it were) with my life as a battle piece and a vixen (goddess?) playing rule-keeper.

_________________
~Proud owner of the 2011 Post of the Year Award~

| It's an INSANITY thing; you wouldn't understand. |

Ponies.


Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:15 am
Profile
Game Master
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:16 am
Posts: 3483
Location: Fairfield, Illinois
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
Since your initial concerns are the Biblical ones, I'll address those. Especially, since I think I made it pretty clear, that I may be entirely wrong about my assumptions and Rick has something else in mind.

Quote:
You're assuming all that because his name happens to include names mentioned in the Bible? My first question is this: why? Why the need to bring religion into this at all?


Because when those names (or biblical ones in general) are brought up, they usaually aren't done willy nillly. I mean, seriously, what was the first thing your mind thought of when you saw those appear in the comic? Or, in another case, a blockbuster summer movie? What would your presumption be? At least, those were my thoughts. As in: 'Huh, Ricks making a biblical reference here? Cool!' I know a lot of church people that would love to name their children using names in the bible and or of books of the bible. That means (at least, I'm assuming from what I know) that Joel would have had to have been brought to church at least for a little bit because of that. As for your take on dog/pet versus human morality, again, valid points there. However, like I said earlier, I left everything up to Rick. However, you have to factor in cannon. It has been said, that dog heaven is more lenient to get into then human heaven. Which, says at least to me that the morality is somewhat different. As far as King's personality, I said, I may be wrong. However, all you need to do is give a person an orange soda and bring up some subjects. But still, good points all around.

_________________
Also on twitter: https://twitter.com/xhunterko


Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:54 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:36 am
Posts: 1703
Location: New Jersey (The Abyss)
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
xhunterko wrote:
Since your initial concerns are the Biblical ones, I'll address those. Especially, since I think I made it pretty clear, that I may be entirely wrong about my assumptions and Rick has something else in mind.

I never even attempted to say you didn't make it clear you could be wrong; my concern was with the reasoning behind bringing it up in the first place. It just seemed unnecessary to me. -shrug-

xhunterko wrote:
Because when those names (or biblical ones in general) are brought up, they usaually aren't done willy nillly. I mean, seriously, what was the first thing your mind thought of when you saw those appear in the comic?

Honestly? I thought of a guy who was in my older sister's class in grade school. I was semi-good friends with him for a time.

I suppose you were expecting me to say that I instantly thought of the Bible character you mentioned? Well, not to seem more harsh than need be, but I think you're in need of a newsflash here: just because the Bible and it's characters are important to you, doesn't mean this is automatically true of everyone. And I find it incredibly presumptuous of you to even imply such a thing.

xhunterko wrote:
As in: 'Huh, Ricks making a biblical reference here? Cool!' I know a lot of church people that would love to name their children using names in the bible and or of books of the bible.

That's precisely the problem. Why would you automatically assume that just because someone has a name that's also used in the Bible, that that person or their family should be instantly lumped into some sort of religious affiliation? That's like seeing someone named George, and going, "Oh hey! That person's parents must really love George Washington!"

It's just plain silly.

xhunterko wrote:
That means (at least, I'm assuming from what I know) that Joel would have had to have been brought to church at least for a little bit because of that.

Again, that is entirely resting on your initial, baseless assumption that the name is in any way related to the biblical character of the same name.

Please, don't think that I'm trying to attack you for your faith (while this is an assumption of my own, I can't imagine any other reason for you to be so defensive), or your right to place it in any situation you like. All I was saying is that it seemed an unnecessary addition to your main point that King's dilemma is one based in morality. I'm sorry if you took it as anything but that; it wasn't intended as anything beyond an opinion of my own.

xhunterko wrote:
It has been said, that dog heaven is more lenient to get into then human heaven. Which, says at least to me that the morality is somewhat different.

Well, to be honest, having more lenience in being granted passage into heaven is hardly grounds for claiming a separate morality. It gives dogs more potential leeway in how far they can bend their own deeds while still feeling like a "good" dog, certainly, but that doesn't really require a separate basis of morality.

_________________
~Proud owner of the 2011 Post of the Year Award~

| It's an INSANITY thing; you wouldn't understand. |

Ponies.


Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:00 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:09 pm
Posts: 856
Location: Deep Appalachian forest
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
Wouldn't it be easier to ask Rick about the comic?......

I seriously think we should not go further with this, guys. Just a suggestion....

_________________
Life is Music, and Music is Life
------------------
My songs: http://www.soundcloud.com/onevirtue

Check out my FA page too!


Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:31 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:35 pm
Posts: 4280
Location: Ohio
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
TougeFoxJ.D.M. wrote:
Wouldn't it be easier to ask Rick about the comic?......

I seriously think we should not go further with this, guys. Just a suggestion....


While I do think it is a good debate,one it is not what this topic is for and two I agree with TougeFox something like this you should really ask Rick (seriously just PM the guy I'm sure he'll clear some stuff up) because you have a really huge chance of reading way to deep into things. Which I think on some level you guys are.

_________________
Image
Image


Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:47 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:36 am
Posts: 1703
Location: New Jersey (The Abyss)
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
The core of my first post is entirely in context of the topic at hand, and while I agree the second post is a bit off-topic, it was purely for clarification purposes.

_________________
~Proud owner of the 2011 Post of the Year Award~

| It's an INSANITY thing; you wouldn't understand. |

Ponies.


Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:16 pm
Profile
Bringing Foxy Back
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:32 am
Posts: 15423
Location: Nephelokokkygia
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
It's typically best to not count on Rick giving much of an answer. He'll answer questions, but he's not one to give huge lore dumps upon request.

_________________
Image
Questions? Comments? Concerns? Friendly banter? Feel free to click the "PM" button below!


Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:46 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:38 am
Posts: 579
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
Well, since I never REALLY answered the original point of this thread, anyway:

If were in his position (which I'm dang glad I'm not), I wouldn't know WHAT to do. On one hand, staying King means that I have at least one good friend, but one who still needs to know my secret for it to be a TRUE friendship. Otherwise, it's based on a horrible secret forever. However, if I were in the exact same position, I guess I'd also still have human bitterness, as Rick mentioned, and still don't know how to get around it. :( I wouldn't be able to look in the mirror or live without knowing I'm one of THEM. Which leaves going back to a former life, which I now know to be one where years of isolation and pain may await, and where I have a far less chance of attaining an ultimate reward. I'd be somewhat depressed.

This must seem like a no-win situation to him. :( All he has to do is LET GO.


Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:16 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:45 am
Posts: 17
Location: Missouri
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
Ahh the question that I tried to explain on the comment page but my grammar was pretty horrible but i will try to do a better job here.. Without putting a deep religious spin to this, let us look at the bare bones of the situation that King is in. Joel was originally a human adult, who made some bad choices in his life. Because of his poor choices he ended up being taken advantage of and manipulated easily, thus ending up in PETA cause of his past history with animals. Now we move the story forward to Joel first 'eye-opener' of a multi-verse and this is when he first encounter the griffon and was told that he was going to be "taught" a lesson since jail wouldn't cure him of his hatred to animals. So he was change to a dog, but not on the account of just learning a lesson but to be an avatar for the Griffon.

Next we move forward to just before Christmas eve where he meet Fox, the dog he kidnapped. Fox shows Joel a kinder side of the animal kingdom. Joel even mention that he is reminded of his youth when he was happy. This is something to take note as then we move to Christmas eve and we see the other side of the animal kingdom, with Bino and the exploding catnip present. Make note of what of what King said "I can't stand your pettiness, your short sightedness, and your inability to see the world past your nose". This is what King perceive all animals are like even before we begin to see a change in him, and that change began with Sasha. Her current upbringing ( A drunk father, somewhat abusive, mostly verbally) seem to attack King at the very heart. Despite of King's own problem of his new life, he does show his good heart to her, he built her a doghouse or example. He also grew a friendship with Fox, one of his truest friend that hasn't betray him and stuck by him.

Now in all this we see that King hasn't change fully yet. He has grown warm to the animals but isn't fully converted, so let hop forward a bit and now we have King is shown that his world is being used as a gaming board for a group of celestial. Joel get to see a dragon (tarot) and a Fox Spirit and is told that the world he lives in a playing field for celestial creatures. They are also bounded by rules ( that the griffon like to bend or manipulate to his favor) and the one rule we know for sure is that the only allowable parties are dogs and cats. King/Joel put up a good defense and kick the Griffon out of the playing field and King is no longer the griffon's avatar, but he then turns around wanting to be turn human again and does not wish to play the game. The fox spirit, informs him that the Joel can change him back but since King kicked him out of the field, he won't and the dragon can't do it. King is frustrated by this fact since he doesn't want to be a part of this game. But the Spirit Fox brought up another point

"Unfortunately you exist therefore you always playing by rules you didn't' agree to, That's Life deal with it for once"

He is right, and can be apply to our own lives. When we were born we step into a world of rules that we didn't know or understood but we were bounded by them and what did we do? We grew and we learn what rules we could to see if we can stay out of the game, or participate in it.. but mostly learn what rules not to break that get us in trouble.

King now learns of the "Game" and the celestial beings and the die they roll is "Fate and Chance". So what does King/Joel do? well like any human transformed, knowing there is a game being place that he doesn't want to be a part of, he avoids it. He tries to continue his life as a dog, thinking if he stay out of the game and avoid Tarot or any celestial being, he just get the reward at the end of the game ( that he was told about) and be human once more by not playing. But for you to Win at a game you must play it and again we see King poor choice-making, so what happens? Well his fate become part of the game, but not by his own doing of course, by the very celestial being that want Joel as his own, The Griffon want Joel to be his avatar. Why? well let look at what Joel bring to the table, human intellect plus strength, senses and speed of an animal. A fine warrior indeed and yes I said warrior because we know from the Fox spirit that there could be enemy players, so the Griffon went to Heaven to grab a trump card to pull King/Joel back into the game. He failed and was captured but not without dropping Joel's fate out of heaven unto earth.

This is current part of the story, at this point, Joel has soften his heart, but he still weary of being betrayed, still believing that he can avoid the game that being played. Then the watch hits him on the head, Fox is there, King see his name on the back of the watch and quickly dispose of it not wanting to be tied to that name, seeing he feel Fox is his only real friend. Now please take notice who came to visit King about his watch.. it wasn't Tarot, it was Sabrina. Why? cause the Spirit Fox stated that for now King/Joel was a third party player or an enemy player. Tarot still has rules to abide by even if King doesn't play, so it make sense she would send Sabrina. And now for the big part, the acknowledgement of Heaven, this info is given to King. Now King being the one of the few humans with such knowledge panics because he now knows that in his world, there is a Heaven, that the religions in his world are partly right, since a Heaven exist. That's something no one is really prepare for, and now his "fate" is here on earth and that fate is a part of his soul. We all saw the turmoil he had to go through to get it back. I believe Bino is more part to this game that people realize, the more we see Bino and people call him a jerk, no one really considered that Joel continual conflict since the griffon left has been Bino, that Bino seem to be there at the 'right' moment to antagonize him? As if 'fate' is giving King encounters and conflicts he must face and overcome.. or fail. The game is slowly being push on King, not fully but making him aware that he must play. but the important factor now is the watch. His fate in his paws, not the griffons!

Now that last piece of this saga this story, is a human now dog, is told something very important. He was told that Heaven was more strict on who they allow into heaven for humans, and Joel when he was human made some poor choices, and took it out on animals, which lowered his chance to get into heaven. Sabrina didn't say he was excluded nor he was barred from heaven, she said that he was no paragon, meaning his chances were small because Humans have to live by a higher moral code then the animals did..think about this, she mention that dog heaven is more lenient. She mention that in Human form Joel was no paragon. Those 2 facts wouldn't pass her lips, nor the issue of heaven wouldn't have been brought up unless she knew something about King and his conflict. Tarot again is indirectly helping King, by giving him these facts. Also she indirectly shoot down Joel goal, to be human again.. cause if you read how she came across with her statement, you can interpret it like this "If you wish to turn back to your human self, understand that heaven isn't guarantee for you" This is what felt is something that comic was getting across, that King had to understand that eternal happiness isn't there for him even if he turn back to human, and does his time in jail and leave PETA and try to go back to his normal life. He made so many poor choices in his past that his chances are small, not impossible but very hard to fix. Now as a Dog, he has a better chance to get into dog heaven and he will be able to gain eternal happiness for his soul, but he have to give up his human existence. That is a very harsh choice, the beautiful thing about being human is to understand, to comprehend, to reason, to believe. We are able to see a world and beyond through our eyes, and explain that world through science and with faith we are able explain the Heavens. This is what make us human, the dogs and cat of this world ( in our world in fact) aren't worried about how the world works, what heaven is about nor think about the afterlife, We as human do. Perhaps that isn't something Joel didn't think about at the time but it what he had to struggle with, his human life and risk not getting into heaven.. or a dog life and have a better chance into heaven. His fate is in his paws now and he is forced now to make a choice. Many want King to stay as a dog, moreso not to lose him, and he is cute as a dog. Personally, the choice is harsh but I do hope he does stay as a dog, not because of the easier entry to heaven but rather he can make the right choice (for once) and become part of the game. Life is about fate and chances, as this world has shown in DnD terms, Joel has fate in his paws, for now and when that celestial being comes to take the watch, he can make his choice on whether be a human or a dog. I want King to take a chance, I want him to stay as a dog, and play the game, learn the rules and participate, not only will he be able to see the world in a new light but he be able to influence fate and chance.

So if I was in Joel/King paws, knowing all this.. just like a Tarot Spread, fate can be shown but can always be change by one's actions, so I will stay a dog and take a chance and play the game, because Tarot has been slowly manipulating fate for several dogs and cats ( but mostly the dog she fell in love with, Peanut) and she has celestial powers. The griffon is unable at this time to do anything to stand against her, until he comes back for revenge. if Joel was smart ( which sometimes I question with the choices he makes), he can see that he can be a deciding factor, that if he becomes an active player, that the griffon will have to stand against both Joel (with powers of his own, and hopefully more friends that can back him up) and the Dragon, thus increasing his chances of Heavenly entry and being kinda cool since he is a low-order mortal who able to play the game as well as any Celestial. Because I assure you that if the Griffon breaks out, if the griffon come back to the game.. he will go after Peanut for target to get to Tarot and King can become a big part of the game if he plays his cards right.


Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:14 am
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:50 am
Posts: 32
Images: 1
Location: Somewhere in the Milky Way ...
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
I might stay as King, even though being a dog would be very frustrating, he does seem to be having a better life, and he also does have a lot of new friends. I hope he doesn't go back to being a human, but that is just me.

_________________
The clock is running.
Make the most of today.
Time waits for no man.
Yesterday is history.
Tomorrow is a mystery.
Today is a gift.
That's why it is called the present.


Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:15 pm
Profile
Online
Game Master
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 6:53 am
Posts: 14138
Location: Italy
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
ClaireTheHedgehog wrote:
I might stay as King, even though being a dog would be very frustrating, he does seem to be having a better life, and he also does have a lot of new friends. I hope he doesn't go back to being a human, but that is just me.

Not just you.
At all.

_________________
Image
Image


Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:44 pm
Profile WWW
Game Master
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:16 am
Posts: 3483
Location: Fairfield, Illinois
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
Quote:

xhunterko wrote:
Since your initial concerns are the Biblical ones, I'll address those. Especially, since I think I made it pretty clear, that I may be entirely wrong about my assumptions and Rick has something else in mind.



I never even attempted to say you didn't make it clear you could be wrong; my concern was with the reasoning behind bringing it up in the first place. It just seemed unnecessary to me. -shrug-



xhunterko wrote:
Because when those names (or biblical ones in general) are brought up, they usaually aren't done willy nillly. I mean, seriously, what was the first thing your mind thought of when you saw those appear in the comic?



Honestly? I thought of a guy who was in my older sister's class in grade school. I was semi-good friends with him for a time.

I suppose you were expecting me to say that I instantly thought of the Bible character you mentioned? Well, not to seem more harsh than need be, but I think you're in need of a newsflash here: just because the Bible and it's characters are important to you, doesn't mean this is automatically true of everyone. And I find it incredibly presumptuous of you to even imply such a thing.



xhunterko wrote:
As in: 'Huh, Ricks making a biblical reference here? Cool!' I know a lot of church people that would love to name their children using names in the bible and or of books of the bible.



That's precisely the problem. Why would you automatically assume that just because someone has a name that's also used in the Bible, that that person or their family should be instantly lumped into some sort of religious affiliation? That's like seeing someone named George, and going, "Oh hey! That person's parents must really love George Washington!"

It's just plain silly.



xhunterko wrote:
That means (at least, I'm assuming from what I know) that Joel would have had to have been brought to church at least for a little bit because of that.



Again, that is entirely resting on your initial, baseless assumption that the name is in any way related to the biblical character of the same name.

Please, don't think that I'm trying to attack you for your faith (while this is an assumption of my own, I can't imagine any other reason for you to be so defensive), or your right to place it in any situation you like. All I was saying is that it seemed an unnecessary addition to your main point that King's dilemma is one based in morality. I'm sorry if you took it as anything but that; it wasn't intended as anything beyond an opinion of my own.



xhunterko wrote:
It has been said, that dog heaven is more lenient to get into then human heaven. Which, says at least to me that the morality is somewhat different.



Well, to be honest, having more lenience in being granted passage into heaven is hardly grounds for claiming a separate morality. It gives dogs more potential leeway in how far they can bend their own deeds while still feeling like a "good" dog, certainly, but that doesn't really require a separate basis of morality.



Quote:
Honestly? I thought of a guy who was in my older sister's class in grade school. I was semi-good friends with him for a time.

I suppose you were expecting me to say that I instantly thought of the Bible character you mentioned? Well, not to seem more harsh than need be, but I think you're in need of a newsflash here: just because the Bible and it's characters are important to you, doesn't mean this is automatically true of everyone. And I find it incredibly presumptuous of you to even imply such a thing.


Gee, sorry.

Quote:
Again, that is entirely resting on your initial, baseless assumption that the name is in any way related to the biblical character of the same name.

Please, don't think that I'm trying to attack you for your faith (while this is an assumption of my own, I can't imagine any other reason for you to be so defensive), or your right to place it in any situation you like. All I was saying is that it seemed an unnecessary addition to your main point that King's dilemma is one based in morality. I'm sorry if you took it as anything but that; it wasn't intended as anything beyond an opinion of my own.


I don't think that at all. Where was I being defensive?

Quote:
That's precisely the problem. Why would you automatically assume that just because someone has a name that's also used in the Bible, that that person or their family should be instantly lumped into some sort of religious affiliation? That's like seeing someone named George, and going, "Oh hey! That person's parents must really love George Washington!"

It's just plain silly.


Now, that's a silly assumption that I would have that kind of thought record. Although you are right and I could have worded that bit a little differently. With more 'coming from my perspective' etc then just basing it on a 'this is generally what's percieved' perspective.

Quote:
Again, that is entirely resting on your initial, baseless assumption that the name is in any way related to the biblical character of the same name.


Sidestepping here. First of all, we don't know much about Joel's early life before he and the pets ran away. Baseless? A bit harsh no?

Quote:
Well, to be honest, having more lenience in being granted passage into heaven is hardly grounds for claiming a separate morality. It gives dogs more potential leeway in how far they can bend their own deeds while still feeling like a "good" dog, certainly, but that doesn't really require a separate basis of morality.


Maybe. Then, why have a seperate heaven that is more lenient in the first place? *shrugs*

Note to self: Keep religion out of forum debates as much as possible in the future.

_________________
Also on twitter: https://twitter.com/xhunterko


Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:07 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:38 am
Posts: 579
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
Well, isn't THIS a topic that generates interest? :)

I agree with nightfirex, there is something to King having his fate in his own hands....... literally. While he does, it is both dangerous AND fantastic.


Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:17 pm
Profile
Online
Game Master
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 6:53 am
Posts: 14138
Location: Italy
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
it becomes dangerous only if he decided to turn back human :(

_________________
Image
Image


Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:29 pm
Profile WWW
Bringing Foxy Back
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:32 am
Posts: 15423
Location: Nephelokokkygia
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
For the record, a vast majority of names in English-speaking countries (and many, many other languages as well) are at least somewhat Biblical. So it's not necessarily significant where his middle name comes from.

_________________
Image
Questions? Comments? Concerns? Friendly banter? Feel free to click the "PM" button below!


Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:32 pm
Profile WWW

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:38 am
Posts: 579
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
Ah, but would he still carry the watch if he WAS Joel again? Also, when that messenger arrives, he WON'T have his fate in his hands anymore.


Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:34 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:50 am
Posts: 32
Images: 1
Location: Somewhere in the Milky Way ...
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
valerio wrote:
ClaireTheHedgehog wrote:
I might stay as King, even though being a dog would be very frustrating, he does seem to be having a better life, and he also does have a lot of new friends. I hope he doesn't go back to being a human, but that is just me.

Not just you.
At all.


Wait, what do you mean by that, sorry your comment didn't make much sense to me, did you mean that other people feel the same way I do? Sorry about this.

_________________
The clock is running.
Make the most of today.
Time waits for no man.
Yesterday is history.
Tomorrow is a mystery.
Today is a gift.
That's why it is called the present.


Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:44 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:36 am
Posts: 1703
Location: New Jersey (The Abyss)
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
xhunterko wrote:
Now, that's a silly assumption that I would have that kind of thought record. Although you are right and I could have worded that bit a little differently. With more 'coming from my perspective' etc then just basing it on a 'this is generally what's percieved' perspective.

My complaint didn't really have anything to do about your perspective on it; your perspective on any given situation is your own business. What I was doing was likening your thought process to a place where it's easier to see why I found it so ridiculous. You were saying (or at the very least, heavily implying) that because one of the character's name is Joel, and this name happens to be in the Bible as well, that it follows for the origin of the name to be in the Bible somewhere. And that's just as silly as claiming a child named George must have been named after George Washington. There are so many other sources the name could have been pulled from (for instance, the friend I had in my sister's class in grade school; also named Joel) that to automatically assume it came from a biblical origin is to dismiss every other possible answer for no good reason at all.

xhunterko wrote:
Sidestepping here. First of all, we don't know much about Joel's early life before he and the pets ran away. Baseless? A bit harsh no?

base·less
–adjective
having no base; without foundation; groundless: a baseless claim.

A bit harsh-sounding, maybe (and for that, once again, I apologize), but I'd say it's a pretty accurate statement. You said yourself, just now in fact, that we don't know much of anything about his past. So, where then are your grounds, your base, to claim that Joel's name has biblical origins?

You see what I mean? It just doesn't make sense.

Quote:
Maybe. Then, why have a seperate heaven that is more lenient in the first place? *shrugs*

"Because, unlike people, dogs are naturally good and loyal and kind." to quote All Dogs Go to Heaven. ;D

In other words: I don't know! :]

Quote:
Note to self: Keep religion out of forum debates as much as possible in the future.

Unless, of course, it's a debate about religion. In which case, go for it! Lol.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Edit: Also, Claire, I think valerio was just saying that you're far from alone in wanting King to remain a dog. In fact, I'd say that's likely what most people want to happen. :p

_________________
~Proud owner of the 2011 Post of the Year Award~

| It's an INSANITY thing; you wouldn't understand. |

Ponies.


Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:14 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:38 am
Posts: 579
Post Re: What would you do if you were in Kings position?
Actually, when he was FIRST introduced, I WANTED him to be turned back at the end. I'd STILL support that, provided his safety on earth was ensured by the cosmic nerds. If he's just going end up back where he was, what's the point? :?


Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:45 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 176 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Deske and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
  • Advertisement
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.