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2017/12/14 - Double Hockey 
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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
GameCobra Wrote:
Douglas Collier Wrote:
Question: Why wasn’t Mr. Milton sent to guide Keene? It seems like he’d have the right perspective as a denizen of heaven and the original founder of the cause to guide Keene in the right directions.


I suspect Mr. Milton probably thought Keene wouldn't be this much trouble and figured it would be better for Breel to handle it given their relationship.

Also fans and shippers wanted it so bad

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Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:40 pm
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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Not A Furry Wrote:
GameCobra Wrote:
Douglas Collier Wrote:
Question: Why wasn’t Mr. Milton sent to guide Keene? It seems like he’d have the right perspective as a denizen of heaven and the original founder of the cause to guide Keene in the right directions.


I suspect Mr. Milton probably thought Keene wouldn't be this much trouble and figured it would be better for Breel to handle it given their relationship.

Also fans and shippers wanted it so bad


That's the obvious answer =P

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Not sure that Henry Milton would handle being rejected by his "son" any better.

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
You can almost hear the sound of Breel's heart shattering...

Douglas Collier Wrote:
Of all the possible outcomes, did anyone predict Breel opening a portal to Hell? Also, was Breel thinking about Hell when that tear hit the mana pool? Is he about to become a fallen angel? Surely heaven wouldn’t allow that sort of thing, right?

I think GameCobra has the right idea: Breel feels like hell, and may have even thought that line exactly, so the pool summoned a portal to literal Hell.

Argent Wrote:
I would have thought a spirit like Breel would be more mature and able to deal with nuance than that, though. I guess I'm going to have to re-read the Breel strips... is he really a young-un who's just putting a mature and reasonable face on things?

I don't know about you, but I consider myself fairly mature and having someone I like (or love, if that's how Breel feels toward Keene) shout "GO AWAY AND LEAVE ME ALONE!" in my face would deeply hurt me, too. I think this post from earlier says it well:
ConvoyWolf Wrote:
I gotta say i know how Breel feels in this arc, not as a celestial being trying to protect someone from themselves, but as someone just trying to be a good friend, someone who just wants to make someone happy, someone who actively wants to care and look out for the well being of someone you care about, yet being treated as a hinderance, a torn in one side, a cause of more frustration in the person theyre trying to help, untill they finally explode in your face, giving you their self percieved impression of you, making it clear that they dont want your help, leaving you confused, broken, hurt, even betrayed, like your love or loyalty means nothing in their plans, and everything youve done for them was for nothing.


Argent Wrote:
Not sure that Henry Milton would handle being rejected by his "son" any better.

I wonder if maybe he would have been less likely to reject Henry.

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Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:08 pm
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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Naro Rivers Wrote:

Douglas Collier Wrote:
Of all the possible outcomes, did anyone predict Breel opening a portal to Hell? Also, was Breel thinking about Hell when that tear hit the mana pool? Is he about to become a fallen angel? Surely heaven wouldn’t allow that sort of thing, right?

I think GameCobra has the right idea: Breel feels like hell, and may have even thought that line exactly, so the pool summoned a portal to literal Hell.

I just think his thought, right at that second, was "Keene? Go to hell."

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Welsh Halfwit Wrote:
I just think his thought, right at that second, was "Keene? Go to hell."

He didn't seem all that angry, though. His reaction was not to lash out, but to turn away.

As for Henry Milton, I don't think he'd have been hurt as deeply as Breel. Hurt some, yes; disappointed, quite likely; but not cut to the quick and falling to pieces.

I'm not sure how much Breel has been doing off-camera to nudge Keene towards a less precipitous course of action... but as it is, I don't quite get how he expected Keene to see active interference as "help," either. Sure, Keene's fond of him - Keene's reaction immediately after his own ill-advised remark makes that plain, at least in my eyes - but not enough to just let go when it seems like the dream he despaired of ever seeing real in his lifetime was actually within his reach. Yank it away from him, and he's going to feel hurt and betrayed, at least at first.

In general, there's plenty of blame to go around for the current state of affairs - enough for Keene, Tarot, and even Breel to take at least some portion of it. Exactly who was the direct trigger is barely relevant.


Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:29 pm
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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Excellent question, Doug. Maybe Breel was chosen because he would have brought a different, subtler approach to turning Keene back for his obsessions. Tarot and her team used magic, logic, and confrontation. Mr. Milton might have tried other reasoning. Breel showed Keene a more personal, dramatic, and immediate demonstration. Instead of continuing to argue and escalate from intensity to intensity, Breel turned and displayed his pain, his sense of loss and failure ... The last reaction Keene would have expected. He's aggressive, competitive, eager to over come obstacles and defiance but ... tears .... nothing prepared him for the hurt of another. Keene has never been entirely certain what to make of Breel, his genial relentless optimism, and he's always been a little diffident about the Celestial's huggy-touchy loveyness. But Breel matters to Keene because he has always seen Keene as a better ferret than Keene sees himself.

....and out of Breel's wilderness come tears and out of those tears come a vision, not of a Miltonian Peaceable Kingdom, but the cosmic sewer and source of all pain, hell itself. Dante would have understood.

Tears not only release heartbreak ... They cleanse the eyes and clarify sight. Perhaps that's what Breel brought Keene that others couldn't, what the saints called "the gift of tears", the realization of how much suffering good intentions ill-considered may unleash.

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Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:30 pm
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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
So, Keene pulled a Judas Iscariat. I have to commend Rick on all the foreshadowing he had going in this arc.

Here's hoping Keene will pull a Dante at the beginning of next year!

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
BasedDook Wrote:
So, Keene pulled a Judas Iscariat. I have to commend Rick on all the foreshadowing he had going in this arc.

Here's hoping Keene will pull a Dante at the beginning of next year!
Frankly, I thought he'd been channeling Faust.

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Hopefully, Mungo puts his good old fashioned therapy dog instincts to work and helps comfort Breel before any more angel-tears are shed.

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
John-056 Wrote:
As for Doom... Well, Hell and Doomguy haven't the best relationship...
Understatement.

In the demon's own words:
Quote:
Tempered by the fires of Hell, his iron will remained steadfast through the passage that preys upon the weak. For he alone was the Hell Walker, the Unchained Predator, who sought retribution in all quarters, dark and light, fire and ice, in the beginning and the end, and he hunted the slaves of Doom with barbarous cruelty; for he passed through the divide as none but demon had before. And in his conquest against the blackened souls of the doomed, his prowess was shown. In his crusade, the seraphim bestowed upon him terrible power and speed, and with his might he crushed the obsidian pillars of the Blood Temples. He set forth without pity upon the beasts of the nine circles. Unbreakable, incorruptible, unyielding, the Doom Slayer sought to end the dominion of the dark realm.

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Billionaire...
Narcissistic as fuDGEYESFUDGE...
Convinced that he's the only one that matters (and not afraid to say exactly that)...
Trying to seize more power than allowed...
Dragging everyone to the brink of an apocalypse because his ego just won't let go...

...man, I just hope someone like that never arises in real life.


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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
if you live in the US, then one already exists, and you elected him. :roll:

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
No need to go further than that.

Anyway, I honestly wonder if that beast is based off of anything?

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
....well, it has a startling resemblance to a gym teacher I had in sophomore year high school.


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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
D-Rock Wrote:
No need to go further than that.

Anyway, I honestly wonder if that beast is based off of anything?
I thought it was a melted Crocomire.

I am still exceedingly disgruntled at Breel being upset. Sweet little martens should always be happy. :<


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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
leinglo Wrote:
I wouldn't even call Keene a proper villain or antagonist, I don't know why people are hanging on that. I mean, we had a whole arc with The 4 Animals You Meet In Heaven just to reaffirm Keene's confidence in carrying on his father's cause and helping people, while having it made clear if he falls, there's nobody to carry on after him. He's running out of time. The worst thing he's done in all this is decide to use the mana as a dangerous shortcut out of what can only be called desperation. If he needs to be stopped, it's just so he can get back to work using conventional, Earthly methods. I wouldn't even blame him all that much for snapping at Breel, having what he believes is his best chance dangled in front his nose and basically being told he can't have it, and being told to leave him alone isn't even all that mean of a putdown. I actually feel like Breel might be overreacting just a little, even if he does has a crush on Keene.


And WHAT did ge learn from this? He seems to have missed the entire point of that journey. Yes, hes short of time, but of your solution to that problem is "destroy the world to fix it" then i dont care WHAT your intentions are. What villain does what they do thinking they arent doing whats right? They dont sit there and twiddle their fingers and go "Yeeees, i love being EEEEEVIL!"... I mean some genuinely do but ypu know what i mean :lol: .

Wreckless, not considering the well being of others "for their own good", impatient, deceptive, rude, immature. Good intention or not, he fits so many aspects of an antagonist. AT BEST hes an anti-hero, but even they can sometimes be more dangerous than the badguys.

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
i believe the trope for that one is called well intentioned extremist?

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
It's the recognition that the world is already broken. If you're going to fix things, it's going to take a massive upheaval of the current state of affairs. People are going to resist the change, there's going to be strife, and the world is going to break even further; then things start to get better as people start to support the new, better world. Lots of normal world changes have gone through this, and we've come out better in the end for quite a number of them.
Keene seems to be trying to push through the resistance part of this and get to the upheaval part. Sure it throws things into a little more chaos a little quicker, but then we also come out the other end a little quicker too. It's just that he has clearly underestimated the "what could go wrong" portion of using mana to accomplish this.
His goals truly are for a better world, but he's gotten in a bit over his head here.

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
True, Obbi, but running parallel to the "Principle of Intrinsic Benevolence" is the "The Law of Unintended Consequence." As always, we've got a few of Rick's lurking subtleties yet to emerge so be not (too) dismayed, mates.


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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
CHAOKOCartoons Wrote:
leinglo Wrote:
I wouldn't even call Keene a proper villain or antagonist, I don't know why people are hanging on that. I mean, we had a whole arc with The 4 Animals You Meet In Heaven just to reaffirm Keene's confidence in carrying on his father's cause and helping people, while having it made clear if he falls, there's nobody to carry on after him. He's running out of time. The worst thing he's done in all this is decide to use the mana as a dangerous shortcut out of what can only be called desperation. If he needs to be stopped, it's just so he can get back to work using conventional, Earthly methods. I wouldn't even blame him all that much for snapping at Breel, having what he believes is his best chance dangled in front his nose and basically being told he can't have it, and being told to leave him alone isn't even all that mean of a putdown. I actually feel like Breel might be overreacting just a little, even if he does has a crush on Keene.


And WHAT did ge learn from this? He seems to have missed the entire point of that journey. Yes, hes short of time, but of your solution to that problem is "destroy the world to fix it" then i dont care WHAT your intentions are. What villain does what they do thinking they arent doing whats right? They dont sit there and twiddle their fingers and go "Yeeees, i love being EEEEEVIL!"... I mean some genuinely do but ypu know what i mean :lol: .

Wreckless, not considering the well being of others "for their own good", impatient, deceptive, rude, immature. Good intention or not, he fits so many aspects of an antagonist. AT BEST hes an anti-hero, but even they can sometimes be more dangerous than the badguys.


I personally don't think that Keene is a villain. At least, not any more. He was at his most villainous during the arc where he tried to marry Sabrina off against her will. However, I think he's changed a lot since then, and it's not like other characters in Housepets have done terrible things. King, prior to becoming a corgi, certainly did some "not good" things.

I think if anything, Keene is a deeply flawed protagonist and one who's really going to have to work some things through if he's actually going to get anything accomplished. We see in this very comic that immediately after yelling at Breel, he realizes he said the wrong thing and attempts to stop Breel from leaving. He DOES care for Breel.

I think in this part of the story, we're seeing Keene in the middle of a character arc. He's trying to be a better person, but it's still very hard for him. I think this arc in particular is going to force him to take a good look at his actions and the consequences they carry for those around him. If anyone is going to be a villain at this point in the series, it's going to be whoever attempted to kill Keene.

I think the person who wants to stop animals from ever being seen as equals no matter what method (whether that be peaceful like Tarot or more chaotic like Keene) is a bigger threat to all the characters.

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Like many of his creatures, Keene is a "work in progress". His single-minded drive for human-animal equality has raised him above the rich self-indulgent, manipulative twerp he was at first meeting. There's almost a Promethean quality about his heroic determination to realize this cosmic goal. Like Obbi noted, the world of Housepets is - like our world, like all created worlds envisioned in the great faiths - a broken world, not the universe the creating powers intended. His vision is nothing less than a restoration of the Peaceable Kingdom.

But as we've seen in most Keene stories, Keene is a very flawed being, particularly in the way he treats others and in his insensitivity to their feelings and concerns. You'll notice, it's always about "MY DREAMS!", the hero-egotist certainty that everyone gladly subordinates themselves in agreements with his ambitions and, if they don't, they are knaves, fools, or greedheads. Not only his goals, but his methods alone are inspired - a variation of "ends justifying the means". So, he hurts people .... Like Breel. He doesn't mean to do it, after all, Breel is his only real friend ... and he tries to repent but the bell cannot be unrung.

CHAOKO's point is not trivial. We can debate Keene as a villain based on his intentions but, like Prometheus, we cannot deny that he is fixated, reckless, and playing cosmic roulette out of the certainty that his grand intentions must achieve ultimately utopian success. Yet, at this point, all he has really caused is Breel's wounding, and what those tears have revealed is the hellish Manichean pilot contradiction of everything Keene sought.

Tarot's final comment, "called it", is not a self-congratulation, a sneer of victory over the ferret. It's more a lament as Keene confronts the consequences of his obsessive heedlessness. A key element of classic tragedy is the hero who can overcome monumental opponents but is defeated by his own flaws, flaws he alone fails to understand. Instead of being the lone victor, he is merely alone ... His friends abandoned and foes bemused.
So, where does Keene, Tarot, and company find themselves now.... we'll let Rick unveil that shortly....

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Well I'm thoroughly confused.

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Has Tarot literally ever made a situation less bad? Her entire personality seems to be "I told you so," even when she herself is the one that screws up.


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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Does leaving Peanut in charge of phenomenal cosmic power so he sends Rick's expy beyond the end of time count? Or was that on Peanut?

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
come to think of it aren't all of the strangest arcs after that?

Does that mean that peanut gave rick the boot and the comic went completely off the rails never to see them again?

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
OK, maybe I've been thinking of this differently than everyone else here but... does no one else realize that this is all Kitsune's fault?

The mana pool is an artifact of the game. It's a limit on how much power Pete could influence on the world during the game while not acting through an avatar. Any power it's demonstrated has been because Kitsune is backing up any use of that power as if it was real. It's like taking a poker chip and treating it like it is real money, that you can do to a limited extent within the boundaries of a casino. The entire fact that this adventure is taking place is because Kitsune didn't do the really responsible thing and clean up after the game by putting his toys away. Instead he's done the faux responsible thing and just monitored their use, because that would be more fun.

Seriously, as the "gamemaster" in regards to the game, the entire issue could have been resolved right away if when he saw the potential problem and went "OK, it's been fun, but time to put the griffon temple back in the toy chest." But no, instead he's recruited mortal souls from heaven to act in the roles of angles in order to keep anything from happening... and ultimately something happened... which given the nature of mana just being poker chips is only really happening because Kitsune is allowing it.

Of course, that is assuming Kitsune is the one providing the power. It's Pete's temple... and Pete is currently a child. Possibly even a baby depending on the gestation period of whatever he was born as. And I don't care who he "really" is, but a child is just a child. And if nature of the temple and/or Kitsune's ruling means that the temple is still drawing from Pete's power even in his current sealed state, and whatever is happening now ends up making the kid sick and/or traumatized by fever dreams... then someone needs to buy me a new monitor, because the one I'm using right now is going to be shattered due to me sucker punching multi tailed [censored] next time we see him after proof of such damage.

But... yeah. With all that said, I'm looking forward to a story line involving the anti-paradises of this little multiverse Rick has built. A small little story idea that has been bumping around in my head has been needing that sort of information, and I'm a little eager to get it despite the road taken to get there. That story just happens to involve the irresponsibility of heaven and the depression of cosmic level beings, so I'm a little on edge about their liability in all this.

Seriously, if Breel gets hurt due to him being recruited by Kitsune rather than the multitailed [censored] not taking the more responsible route out of all this, than that should definitely be counted as a disruption of the order of heaven.


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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
GK is probably not THAT much older than Pete and Dragon.

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
argent, age looses all meaning when time isn't an objectively linear progression in a single direction.

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Then I guess it doesn't matter how "old" Pete and Dragon are.

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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Howcum nobody's got time but ever'body's got a watch?


Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:14 pm
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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Keene, you done goofed.


Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:29 pm
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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Argent Wrote:
Then I guess it doesn't matter how "old" Pete and Dragon are.

It does in the context of that comment in that Pete and Dragon are currently mortal, probably children or babies. Benjamin is speculating that, if not Kitsune, the temple may be drawing off of mortal Pete's power, whether he knows he has it or not. Also that all this is happening because of Kitsune's inaction.

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Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:18 am
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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Argent Wrote:
Then I guess it doesn't matter how "old" Pete and Dragon are.


GK's age is irrelevant, Pete's currently is not. cause right now he's like... 2? 3?

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Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:44 am
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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
I highly doubt the temple is drawing its power from a mortal. I think it’s more like it was granted a certain amount of power at the beginning that hasn’t been spent.

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Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:52 pm
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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
BasedDook Wrote:
So, Keene pulled a Judas Iscariat. I have to commend Rick on all the foreshadowing he had going in this arc.

Here's hoping Keene will pull a Dante at the beginning of next year!


Nice catch. In Let's get down to business Rick put Keene in the same postion as Judas in The Last Supper.



Could someone explain me why the strip is called Double Hockey? I don't get the reference here.

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Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:03 pm
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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Agreed, Doug, there's kind of an "autopilot energy" animating and directing the spells like we saw with Thomas's transformation. As to what age the mortal Pete and Dragon are at, well, that could feature in a later story when one or both of them show up in mortal form....I'm sure "mortalification" may also involve regression in mortal maturity stages, but that remains to be learned. You're likely as right as anybody, Naro, bu t we do know they've lost their intrinsic powers as immortal Celestial. They still, however, like Tarot and Sabrina, probably know some magic and a few parlor tricks...


Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:04 pm
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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
Sorry, I tldr'ed the whole "maybe they're drawing power from the mortal Pete. I thought it was a comment about Pete's immaturity.

Nah, he's mortal, he _can't_ have that power while he's mortal, plus the mana in the game can't be more than a fraction of their power... it's a game, after all.

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Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:20 pm
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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
MX682XM Wrote:



Could someone explain me why the strip is called Double Hockey? I don't get the reference here.


Because Hell is the realm of eternal damnation; the polar opposite of Heaven, Its name is often considered a swear word and thus innapropriate to be used around children, reserved only for adults. Often people try to get around not saying the word by either spelling it out "H-E-L-L", yet other try to be creative by saying "H-E-Double Hockey Sticks", a reference to the shape of uppercase "L"s resembling goalie sticks.


Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:29 pm
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Post Re: 2017/12/14 - Double Hockey
GameCobra Wrote:
Not A Furry Wrote:
GameCobra Wrote:
I suspect Mr. Milton probably thought Keene wouldn't be this much trouble and figured it would be better for Breel to handle it given their relationship.

Also fans and shippers wanted it so bad


That's the obvious answer =P

Keene and henry also have similar goals, so there's a risk henry might loose his objectivity.

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Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:49 am
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