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Fighting Game Idea 
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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
Well, yeah, Persona 4 Arena was a direct sequel with new stakes. Still surprised that a JRPG had a fighting game as a sequel. Then it got another fighting game sequel. Then finally a dancing rhythm game.

...Atlus had fun with that, didn't they?

As for title, how about Babylon Arena?

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Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:33 pm
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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
D-Rock Wrote:
As for title, how about Babylon Arena?

I like it.

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Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:35 pm
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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
I'd love helping with coming up with alternate colours, mostly because of the fighting games I play are developed by Arcsys (P4 Arena, Blazblue, etc), and they tend to give each character 24+ alternate colours. Kind of led to me always choosing alternate colours over original ones. :lol:

D-Rock Wrote:
As for title, how about Babylon Arena?
Babylon Arena sounds good.

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
D-Rock Wrote:
Looks great! Three days for an idle animation?

Well, this would take an incredibly long time just for one character.

Next up, do we want to make this in the same "canon" as Tails of Babylon, like how Persona 4 did?


RedFoxWizard Wrote:
Wow, neat! Hey, is that the celestial bridge thingy from the first ToB demo? I remember it being in space and having glass-panel floors.

Also, if we were to make it canon it'd have to be a separate arc in a sense, but maybe with a few tie-ins kind of like D-Rock is suggesting with Persona 4 and Persona 4 Arena.


HAH! Only an hour of those 3 days where spent on the animation, and that also included the crouching and turning animations. Peanut's rig himself took about a day, I used an engine called "Spriter" to make a sort of puppet form of Peanut, and using that puppet to make said animations, I exported them in the form of 8 frames to create the animation and put it into MUGEN. The reason I'm so possitive is because a character might ideally only 1-2 days of full focus to create. Granted, this game would have a lot of characters, but it doesn't take NEARLY as long as I figured it would to make them! :D
What took the longest was the HUD, which I still have to edit in terms of the timer and possibly the font. The stage took a few hours, but really that's just because I only used it to test creating stages. That stage will look a bit better in the final version, and yes, it was the celestial battleground from Tails of Babylon. I though it would be the best "Final Destination" like stage. :)

And yeah, this game will in fact be in the same universe of Tails of Babylon, probably taking place quite some time afterward. It wouldn't exactly be a sequel, but like you said, a tie in. Same world, some same characters, and a lot of the move sets (particularly the specials) would be based on Tails of Babylon.

The game will have a base version (1.0) with many characters from the comic, an multiple game modes like Arcade, VS, Survival, Local Co-Op and Team versions of each mode. It will most certainly receive both minor and major updates adding characters, stages, and gamemodes from both the comic as it updates, possibly from major fan projects like HP1X and Tails of Babylon, and even just fun things or gimmicks. ;)
Some Tails of Babylon stuff will probably be included in the game initially for story reasons like Nue&Olde, Barghest, Reinhart'd, and Shadows, but if I get around to it we might add some of Nue's minions.

D-Rock Wrote:
As for title, how about Babylon Arena?


I'll put that tittle on the list of possible ones. The one I came up with which I've been using as a placeholder was "Housepets! Fight Pets" to follow the format of the way the books are titled, and to reference the movie "Fight Club". Super also came up with one called "Housepets! Babylon Brawlers".

Also, does that mean we're doing a rythm game after this one? :P

RedFoxWizard Wrote:
I'd love helping with coming up with alternate colours, mostly because of the fighting games I play are developed by Arcsys (P4 Arena, Blazblue, etc), and they tend to give each character 24+ alternate colours. Kind of led to me always choosing alternate colours over original ones. :lol:

D-Rock Wrote:
As for title, how about Babylon Arena?
Babylon Arena sounds good.

There's 12 palette options available in M.U.G.E.N, the 12 one being an "Overpowered" one that unlocks different moves for the character. I figured I'd use this slot for the character's Shadow variant. As for the rest. I'd be glad to have help with the alt palettes, but I think you have to do it through the engine's editor. It's not as simple as recoloring the sprites (which are actually a bit messy at the moment, and would probably be hard to physically alter anyway.

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
We can figure out more story later when we start getting close to finished with Tails of Babylon.

...it'll be a while, but go ahead and start brainstorming. I recall with Fighting is Magic, the base demo (which was as far as production ended up going, sadly) was simply an arcade and vs. mode. Story can be added later on.
CHAOKOCartoons Wrote:
Also, does that mean we're doing a rythm game after this one?

Yes, with all sorts of flashing lights, epic song remixes, deep story, an enemy that can only be defeated with epic dancing, several difficulty modes, and fully motion-captured 3D models!

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
CHAOKOCartoons Wrote:
D-Rock Wrote:

Super also came up with one called "Housepets! Babylon Brawlers".


Actually it was Babylon Rumble. But whateves.

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
SuperStar Wrote:
CHAOKOCartoons Wrote:
D-Rock Wrote:

Super also came up with one called "Housepets! Babylon Brawlers".


Actually it was Babylon Rumble. But whateves.

Now we have 4 NAMES then XD
D-Rock Wrote:
We can figure out more story later when we start getting close to finished with Tails of Babylon.

...it'll be a while, but go ahead and start brainstorming. I recall with Fighting is Magic, the base demo (which was as far as production ended up going, sadly) was simply an arcade and vs. mode. Story can be added later on.
CHAOKOCartoons Wrote:
Also, does that mean we're doing a rythm game after this one?

Yes, with all sorts of flashing lights, epic song remixes, deep story, an enemy that can only be defeated with epic dancing, several difficulty modes, and fully motion-captured 3D models!

I know, this was just done out of random procrastination. The only stuff I've come up with is what I was thinking about while working on all of this. As stated, this will be made AFTER Tails of Babylon. Though I will probably at least release Peanut's full character for everyone to use in their own MUGEN. I've already gotten pretty far with his character, might as well just finish it up :)

EXCELLENT

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
Will they have finishing specials like in Persona 4, or more like (tame) after-battle finishers like Mortal Kombat? Maybe for characters that appear in Tails of Babylon, their ultimate would be involved, with lower-tier items being parts of specials, like any of the balls for Peanut. Is it possible to assign a different projectile object for each costume?

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
Again, never played a persona game man, but I assume yes? The bars you see above their health are their super meters. Regular super attacks only cost one bar, and Finisher attacks cost 3 bars. In this way I think a good example would be the Dragon Ball fighting games (but again, not everyone may have played those). I considered making insta kill finishers if you got 9 bars, but it's so easy to get to charge the bars that I feel it may be easy to beat any fight easily so long as you spam any attack over and over. The only thing really stopping that would be the time, or if the AI was really difficult, but even then you'd probably get at least 1 free round in.

I don't think I can assign different projectiles to palettes, but I can change their color. I can look into it, but I know you can't have fully alt' costumes so I assume you cant do that either. Or at least you can, but it would disappear when you get grabbed and then re-appear? Basically, it would look weird, which is unfortunate for any possible transformation characters like Tarot, Satu, or Ptah.

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
The way Persona 4 Arena worked was each character had a special bar that reached 100 for magic attacks from their Persona. When they reached critical health, they would get a special boost and their max special would rise to 150. Also, if it's in a round that would win you the match, you can activate an instant finisher for 100 special, but they can be evaded. Some are close range grabs, some only hit specific areas of the map, some have delays, some can be easily evaded, and one is a counter.

Persona 4 Ultimax had some exceptionally flashy finishers, though.

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
as a callback to the other game inputing somekind of special code when selecting your character should pallet swap them into into a Shadow. Nothing else changes, their animations just change colors.

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
As for how a story would play out, we could do what Netherrealm Studios has been doing with Mortal Kombat; every character has their own story in Arcade Mode, while the actual Story Mode would be one long narrative giving players the opportunity to play as different individuals.

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
Yeah, that sounds good D-Rock. There's also a "Saga" feature that allows you to select different story modes, kinda like campaigns. For example; One saga might be The game's story, another may be a retelling of HP! Tails of Babylon, and another might be a retelling of HP1X. It would give the updates more than just a simple character and stage patch, and give you a reason to use said characters.

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
Here's a couple of questions. How many characters do you guys think we should have and do you think we should have hidden characters or not?

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
I've seen MASSIVE rosters for Mugen games before, so that can be decided later. Hidden characters are great incentives to play the game, I think, especially if some are only unlocked with specific requirements and characters as suggested early on in this thread.

Also, Chaoko, about one possible story being about the ToB story, I guess it would be for people who haven't played the game?

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
Don't know. Ideally we could have an infinite amount since it can be updated, though making too many updates may be a bit troublesome regarding unlockables and whatnot. I think everything should realistically be unlocked from the beginning, unless we want to ask people to manually add the updates to the game via scripts so their data is saved. As much as I like the idea of unlockables, I don't think it'd work well unless we make it one base version.
I'll look into the updating matter later though. I REALLY want unlockables, especially with the challenge of survival mode, but if we can't do it and make frequent updates we may want to just unlock things as we make it. :roll:

Based on some characters listed for a possible story update I titled "Fuse Pets" (I'll go into this more later). The characters that came to mind to add so far are as follows:


--Base Game--
1.Peanut
2.Grape
3.Bino
4.Max
5.Fox
6.Rex
7.Fido
8.Ralph
9.Kevin
10.Joey
11.Sasha
12.Duchess
13.King
14.Bailey
15.Daisy (Ignore this it was apart of another list unrelated to the actual playable characters)
16.Tarot
17.Sabrina
18.Jess
19.Mungo
20.Jata
21.Satu
22.Ptah
23.Pete
24.Dragon
25.Kitsune
26.Nue&Olde
27.Miles
28.Barghest
29.Karishad
30.Spot (Superdog)

--1X Update--
31.Spike
32.Eyesight
33.RightArm
34.LeftLeg
35.Heartbreak
36.Winter
37.Primo(Cerberus Form)

--ToB Update--
38.Blu-e
39.Jenny
40.Tybalt
41.Efran
42.Teox
43.Bruno
44.Ophois
45.Reinhartd
~Probably missing a few~

--C:HP! Update?--
I mean I cant really tell or say for that matter who would even make sense to be in it until it's over.

In other words, at minimum around 40-60 with all the updates, though like D-Rock said, there can be a LOT of characters in MUGEN
D-Rock Wrote:
Also, Chaoko, about one possible story being about the ToB story, I guess it would be for people who haven't played the game?

Pretty much, either that or just to relive the story in a fighting game format. Many fighting games based on stories do that in each version. The 1X one would be to literally re-tell the story so that it makes more sense in context of both the actual comic, and the ToB universe. Basically just taking out the stuff that shot down a LOT of the comic's canon like the whole "Pete and Dragon once dated" thing :lol: . If it's possible, I may even ask Stu if I can do something to create some sort of ending for it for the sake of the game.

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Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:59 am
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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
Can we add either Miles or North Star on that list?

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
I mean I guess, but I feel like the wolves really haven't done anything very significant. For the most characters I can look at them and go "Yeah I know exactly what their moveset should be!" but the wolves never seemed to fit the bill in that regard. If any wolf I'd probably add Miles, for obvious reasons he's the most frequently shown wolf. I'll add him to the list and see if i can think of his moveset when I get to him, fully open to suggestions on that though. I may not know it but that doesn't mean someone else won't.

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
CHAOKOCartoons Wrote:
[color=#FF8000]Don't know. Ideally we could have an infinite amount since it can be updated, though making too many updates may be a bit troublesome regarding unlockables and whatnot.


In practice it depends on how well your engine avoids save file bloating, but in theory it's simple. Have all saves be external to the game files, and have it save specifically the content that has been unlocked with no mention of the content that hasn't, that way the new version isn't looking for "task incomplete" progress flags that don't exist yet.

The downsides though are two fold: A) a challenge has to be completed in one play session since incomplete data isn't saved, and B) save files may become bloated as more savable data gets added to the game.

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
Here's the thing:

If you are serious about the fighting game, i highly recommend sticking to just 8-10 fighters (secret characters included) with a boss, then if the project is going smoothly, we think of adding more characters down the line.

One of the problems i experienced with these game projects is we overexhaust ourselves in using too many characters. for the fighting game version, i recommend we start simple, then think about more characters in the future. I like to see where Chaoko's mechanics lead in the future first. :3

also: please no combos. D:

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
All of the combos!

While I HIGHLY doubt that the Mugen engine is capable of this, P4A had an "auto-combo" system. Just keep pressing the attack button, and the characters would automatically perform a four hit combo. However, it was MUCH weaker than if you had manually input all of the necessary button presses.

Also, I suddenly want to get started on alternate palette concepts. Maybe it'll help with the dry spell I'm going through lately. That alright?

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
GameCobra Wrote:
Here's the thing:

If you are serious about the fighting game, i highly recommend sticking to just 8-10 fighters (secret characters included) with a boss, then if the project is going smoothly, we think of adding more characters down the line.

One of the problems i experienced with these game projects is we overexhaust ourselves in using too many characters. for the fighting game version, i recommend we start simple, then think about more characters in the future. I like to see where Chaoko's mechanics lead in the future first. :3

I agree with GameCobra on this. I think we should start of small, and then gradually ad more over time.

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
Buster Wrote:
In practice it depends on how well your engine avoids save file bloating, but in theory it's simple. Have all saves be external to the game files, and have it save specifically the content that has been unlocked with no mention of the content that hasn't, that way the new version isn't looking for "task incomplete" progress flags that don't exist yet.

The downsides though are two fold: A) a challenge has to be completed in one play session since incomplete data isn't saved, and B) save files may become bloated as more savable data gets added to the game.

MUGEN doesn't quite work like most game engines. It's all text based. To my knowledge, there's no way to download updates or different versions without taking the new scripts from the newer version, and manually pasting them into the game. When I say "Updates", I mean I'd make a whole other copy of the game with the new features. Players could manually add the characters, stages, and stories to their versions, but they can't really transfer them over. Luckily, it's not very hard to add new data to MUGEN, and I'd definitely make tutorials explaining how to add certain things for players.
The updated versions would really just be for new players, or if you hadn't really unlocked anything in a previous version.

GameCobra Wrote:
Here's the thing:

If you are serious about the fighting game, i highly recommend sticking to just 8-10 fighters (secret characters included) with a boss, then if the project is going smoothly, we think of adding more characters down the line.

One of the problems i experienced with these game projects is we overexhaust ourselves in using too many characters. for the fighting game version, i recommend we start simple, then think about more characters in the future. I like to see where Chaoko's mechanics lead in the future first. :3

also: please no combos. D:

Oh of course. I don't expect to add every character in the first version immediately. That will probably have to be done overtime, in multiple updates.
Also, it would seem that unlockable characters are not a thing in the default MUGEN engine. MUGEN Story Mode is apparently the only way to do that, which is a different version of MUGEN. Again, this is a matter that I will look into when we actually start working on the game. For now, I'd say we'll start off simple like GameCobra suggested. It's not hard to transfer data of one MUGEN to another, so when the time comes I can just copy paste some files and script over to the other version, and work from there. In fact, that's the point of the engine, that it's incredibly easy to modify. It's very possible that this project could just become a sort of hub for making Housepets! characters, maps, and stories for MUGEN, they'd all be usable in anyone's MUGEN, but would work best in the version that I created for said content.

And I don't really know how I WOULDN'T add combos. Combos just kind of come from using one attack with another and they happen to string together well. If you mean the Mortal Kombat over the top combos, yeah no, those are dreadful. I would never put that in any fighting game :lol:
Peanut is going to be an example of an easy character to use, as he has simple attacks that can all be strung together in some way. Not too slow, not to flashy. Very straight forward and easy to learn. More passive or powerful characters like Tarot may have moves that have strange movements and not easy to combo, but could hit hard if they land. I don't see there being a character that relies on complicated combos.

D-Rock Wrote:
All of the combos!

While I HIGHLY doubt that the Mugen engine is capable of this, P4A had an "auto-combo" system. Just keep pressing the attack button, and the characters would automatically perform a four hit combo. However, it was MUCH weaker than if you had manually input all of the necessary button presses.

Also, I suddenly want to get started on alternate palette concepts. Maybe it'll help with the dry spell I'm going through lately. That alright?

Now see, THAT is my favorite type of combo system, and it is possible I'm pretty sure, just takes a few more sprites than the norm.

And I mean I guess you can? I don't see how or why considering the only character with a set palette so far is Peanut, but I guess you could always just make general color guesses. Here's Peanut's battle portrait, it has all his palette colors.

Image

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
Nothing wrong with complicated combo possibilities, but I think it should be reliant on players figuring out how to do so on their own instead of making them NECESSARY for a character. Something that a seasoned player could develop.

Thanks for the image. I'll see what I can whip up. I'll take suggestions. So twelve is the max number of palettes? That gives me eleven to come up with. At this moment, my ideas are;

Spot (how he's drawn in his comics, not how he appears in the Pridelands arc [okay, how he looks in the arc])
Reversed Palette (NOT inverted)
Shadow
Grape
Kade (from Savestate. Could also pass as Rufus)

Any other ideas?

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
Oooh, with the idea of starting with about only 10 characters and adding the rest through updates, I got chills thinking of the cool names we could give them, :P

Like, say, theoretically, we keep King, Fox, Bailey, maybe even Sabrina out of the first version, but then add them in the "Kingdom Come" Update. Keene, any other ferrets playable, any of the wolfs playable, and Karishad(with approval of course) could be the "Milton's Legacy" update.

But on the matter of Peanut recolors, maybe his son(sons?) from The Series? That is I'm assuming they have a slightly different coat... Also, maybe another webcomic reference. Like I dunno, the pallet of a character from Twokinds? I imagine we could easily give King a Trace pallet, I think it would suit him for some reason.

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
I like that idea of update names. I think Armello names their updates.

As for Peanut having the colors of his sons from The Series, only Parnok would work, as Dayshaun is merely a Peanut-colored cat. I don't read enough TwoKinds to know whose to give to Peanut. It'd be interesting to try to work a palette from Trace onto King.

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
usually a character in capcom game would have 4 pallet swaps until they bumped it up to 8.

Also: Totally add black cat grape, as in replace all the purple with black.

I'm talking about the good old Marvel Vs. Capcom combos in general and Killer Instinct. In general, the newer street fight games returned to the old roots and only allows at least a maximum of 3 hit combos, which is fine. People don't want to spend most of their fights losing control of the character, though, which is what drives me bonkers in most fighting games. At least MKX and Killer Instinct have combo breakers, but I always felt from a fan and developer point that there really shouldn't be a need for combos to deliver the pain ~ just good input.

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Last edited by GameCobra on Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:51 pm
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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
Taking full advantage of the available slots, Cobra. Not sure on black cat Grape, as that might make her look too much like Sabrina.

EDIT:oh just purple is changed? Ok, that works, until we get to Tybalt, but he could have a different stance.

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Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:54 pm
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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
D-Rock Wrote:
Taking full advantage of the available slots, Cobra. Not sure on black cat Grape, as that might make her look too much like Sabrina.


when you say slots, I don't know if you mean palette slots or cahracter slots. =P

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Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:56 pm
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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
I mean color pallets slots, Cobra.

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Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:57 pm
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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
I insist atleast one update make a refrence to a Koala and or Giraffe. just to confuse the heck out of fans of a certain game...

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Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:59 pm
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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
D-Rock Wrote:
I mean color pallets slots, Cobra.


K.

And yes ~ purple gone black. Nothing else changes.

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Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:01 pm
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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
Buster Wrote:
I insist atleast one update make a refrence to a Koala and or Giraffe. just to confuse the heck out of fans of a certain game...

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Anyway, I'm currently working on Kade's palette, I think I won't make it match exactly, as there are little details that I can't quite get.

...then again, these are only concepts, so I'm being hard on it. P4A had a character who had a palette that referenced a Persona 3 character in color design only. Her hair color was changed, her clothes were changed, but it didn't actually change how either looked. I'll be going that route when necessary.

Update: Okay, got a lot already;

Normal
Classic
Reversed
Parnok
Spot
Shadow
Kade
Grape

That leaves four more. Alright, everyone, throw your suggestions at me.

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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
SuperStar Wrote:
But on the matter of Peanut recolors, maybe his son(sons?) from The Series?

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I've never read that comic(?), but everything I've heard about it just makes it weirder and weirder in my mind :lol: I guess at some point I should actually read it to understand what the heck it is but... whaaaat???
But i agree, Trace's palette would be pretty neat, though I wouldn't know how on earth that would look on him :lol: Savestate palettes would also make sense.

Buster Wrote:
I insist atleast one update make a refrence to a Koala and or Giraffe. just to confuse the heck out of fans of a certain game...

...okay you're gonna have to explain this one cause I'm not sure we know what you are referencing here. :|
GameCobra Wrote:
And yes ~ purple gone black. Nothing else changes.

Interesting choice, any reason why? Not disagreeing or anything just curious why that specifically.
Also, that may make people confuse her for Spike, for the record. :P

EDIT: Actually D-Rock, you may want to hold of on the Grape Palette. I mentioned earlier a possible silly update titled "Fuse Pets", and while designs aren't quite made yet, I wanna leave myself with some options ;)

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Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:26 pm
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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
The Series is a written fanfic. I'm really only aware of it because it has a TV Tropes page. Yeah, Peanut has children in it. Five, to be precise.

Also, I already made the Grape concept.

And about a black Grape looking like Spike, I doubt that will be an issue, considering the species difference.

Still like to hear suggestions for the last four palettes.

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Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:47 pm
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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
Both a Halloween and natural theme for Grape. Also - Black cats for Halloween is a common theme which wouldn't be uncharacteristic for Grape to try out, which would be awesome.

I know you are excited about it, D-Rock, but i wouldn't jump on the fan content for a Housepets game. Newer players would be like "What the moose?"

If i recall, these pallets you want are for Peanut. that's what confusing since you mentioned Parnok as well.

For Peanut, it would be:

Normal
Classic
Reversed
Parnok
Spot
Shadow
Kade
Grape
Ghost
Sea fish
Hydrant
Gold

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Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:04 pm
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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
P4A contained palettes that referenced Persona 3 and Blazblue. I don't see a problem with an "outside" source being used for a palette. What's funny, though, is that a Gold palette is available for them as well. It's just that, a pure gold palette.

I'm going to need an example of Sea Fish, though. I like the rest.

By the way, something I keep forgetting to bring up when I saw Chaoko's suggestion for a ToB set. I noticed Jenny there. She's much too small to be a fair fight. Maybe make her part of a unit? Only other character I can think of to pair with is Nevermore, but still, that's one wonky hitbox and likely wouldn't be feasible. Unless you can figure out some way to "totem-pole" them with Lacert and Photos.

... :? can't think of any way for that to work out. We may end up omitting them due to technical reasons, like why Motaro isn't encountered in a fight in MK9.

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Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:44 pm
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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
Sea fish would be mostly light like a light blue for his brown fur. His ears, on the otherhand would be damp, like someone used too much black. his tummy would be like someone splashed him with water.

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Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:57 am
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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
What's the origin of Seafish?

Also, if you need to replace a color or something, would "NINJA" be a good alt?

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Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:22 am
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Post Re: Fighting Game Idea
It's meant to be a hint on Peanut's interest in cats. Even if he's allergic to crawfish, he could still dress up as fish.

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Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:32 am
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