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2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned 
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Argent Wrote:
HundKatzeMaus Wrote:
What Keene did was kinda the same as seeing an electric fence, knowing you should NOT touch it, and still decided to lick on it.
Tarot says it's an electric fence. Pete promised fulfillment of wishes. And don't forget that Keene is officially Pete's minion.
So after said minion licks said electric fence, does he become a filet minion? I'll show myself the door thanks


Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:36 am
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Argent Wrote:
Quote:
Again, what was Tarot supposed to explain?
What she's explaining RIGHT NOW, in convincing detail.

Agreed. Having good reasons to try and stop someone means surprisingly little when you stalwartly refuse to actually tell those reasons until after everything is going to hell (and if you have time to explain then, you certainly had time earlier), especially when doing so could've actually avoided the catastrophe. The Eldar from 40k pull that brand of rubbish too, and guess what, they're universally distrusted as arrogant, manipulative, jerks that have a terrible habit of bringing about the very disasters they're trying to prevent because they won't clue anyone else in. Sound familiar?


Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:46 am
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Well, in fairness to Tarot, Sabrina did try to dissuade Keene pretty robustly! 'course, nobody mentioned that "Yawning Maw of Hell" thing ... And, while Tarot might rightly feel entitled to a moment of "Gloat-O-Rama", there is a question of priorities here. (Tarot does, at times, remind me of "Professor Frink" from "The Simpsons").


Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:59 am
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Why do I have a feeling that Rufus is gonna show up at the last moment and kick some serious demon butt or perform an awesome heroic sacrifice in order to defeat it? I have a feeling he faded in the background for a reason. People seem to forget that Rufus is part of this arc.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:34 am
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Well, true...Breel ain't the only Celestial in the swamp.


Last edited by NHWestoN on Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:54 am
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Instead of trying to undermine Keene, Tarot and Sabrina could have at least found out what his exact plans were; they then could have helped avoid a world-ending scenario by giving him information like this beforehand and helping him form a more concrete and specific wish for the mana pool with all sorts of defining parameters.

Soerix Wrote:
Is this comic getting less and less PG? :(

This is bordering on Hunchback of Notre Dame PG - perhaps pushing the limits on even that. This is the sort of thing that would give me nightmares as a kid. :oops: The comic has kind of been losing the innocent feel I fell in love with - but I’m holding out that the status quo will return after all this, with everyone the wiser. :)

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:29 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Argent Wrote:
HundKatzeMaus Wrote:
What Keene did was kinda the same as seeing an electric fence, knowing you should NOT touch it, and still decided to lick on it.
Tarot says it's an electric fence. Pete promised fulfillment of wishes. And don't forget that Keene is officially Pete's minion.

Quote:
Again, what was Tarot supposed to explain?
What she's explaining RIGHT NOW, in convincing detail.

As for the electric fence analogy, Keene has rubber gloves, a set of jumper cables, a device to power, and assistants to help him. Tarot is the neighbor farmer who has seen people shocked, but is clueless to Keene's preparations. She's shouting, "Don't!" and she's pulling him away. She doesn't care about what measures he's taken. She doesn't care to learn. She doesn't care about tact. She'll rub his face in the facts of danger, completely unaware and uncaring that he knows it already. She's also completely uncaring about how she's putting everyone in danger by prolonging the situation out. She knows she's right. She doesn't care about anyone else's opinion. If someone objects, she makes them out to be her enemy.

Tarot is a static character. She doesn't change. She's stubborn, opinionated, careless, and harsh. As a reader, I hate static characters. I want dynamic characters that grow through their experiences. Tarot doesn't grow. She remains the same annoying character now that she was when she first appeared in the comic.

Static characters are necessary many times, and Tarot makes a great static character. But I just plain don't like her interference. I know that won't change, because she is a static character. To keep the story flowing, though, more dynamic characters will need to be the focus.

I believe that Keene is a dynamic character. Yes, he has a one-track mind: to accomplish what Mr. Milton started. But Keene changes his methods and means. Originally, Keene was simply pouring money into the idea. But when Pete gave Keene 1 Mana, Keene started investigating that option also. Now, Keene knows how to use that option. Perhaps Keene's hat is even made from the Mana Egg. It hasn't been shown in-comic what happened to the Mana Egg. But undoubtedly, Keene has been researching with it, and now has the knowledge of how to use Mana appropriately. Why else would he call for the quest to the center of the Temple? Why wait so long, if that wasn't his end game?

For the next comic, I would love to see Keene grab Tarot by the neck and toss her at the creature. "If you're so smart, YOU TAKE CARE OF THIS!"

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:00 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
TheOne Wrote:
It hasn't been shown in-comic what happened to the Mana Egg.
I thought they used it to send Satau back to Neolithic Egypt.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:10 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
TheOne Wrote:
Perhaps Keene's hat is even made from the Mana Egg. It hasn't been shown in-comic what happened to the Mana Egg. But undoubtedly, Keene has been researching with it, and now has the knowledge of how to use Mana appropriately.

Keene's hat is just an ordinary nightcap (he was asleep when he was summoned after all), if it's given him any powers it's by dint of being in the temple. As for the Mana Egg, we did see what happened to that. Keene (apparently) gave it to Karishad for safe keeping, and Karishad gave it to Tarot and Sabrina so that they could use it to send Satau back in time. Seeing how well that turned out I'm wondering if Tarot and Sabrina don't actually know how to handle mana as well as they think they do.
TheOne Wrote:
For the next comic, I would love to see Keene grab Tarot by the neck and toss her at the creature. "If you're so smart, YOU TAKE CARE OF THIS!"

Keene is a lot of things, but he isn't malicious.


Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:19 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
I may be overthinking this, but back in this comic (the one I believe started Keene’s mission), Keene believes that Heaven is the place where everyone can change.

http://www.housepetscomic.com/comic/2016/05/30/remember-who-you-are/

Maybe the end of the world is his vision coming to pass - everyone becoming perfect by being sent to Heaven? I really hope not. :?

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:22 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
leinglo Wrote:
TheOne Wrote:
Perhaps Keene's hat is even made from the Mana Egg. It hasn't been shown in-comic what happened to the Mana Egg. But undoubtedly, Keene has been researching with it, and now has the knowledge of how to use Mana appropriately.

Keene's hat is just an ordinary nightcap (he was asleep when he was summoned after all), if it's given him any powers it's by dint of being in the temple. As for the Mana Egg, we did see what happened to that. Keene (apparently) gave it to Karishad for safe keeping, and Karishad gave it to Tarot and Sabrina so that they could use it to send Satau back in time. Seeing how well that turned out I'm wondering if Tarot and Sabrina don't actually know how to handle mana as well as they think they do.
TheOne Wrote:
For the next comic, I would love to see Keene grab Tarot by the neck and toss her at the creature. "If you're so smart, YOU TAKE CARE OF THIS!"

Keene is a lot of things, but he isn't malicious.

Not malicious. Just utterly fed up and breaking emotionally. He's dealt with her too much, and he's just done.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:47 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Oh no, indeed... :? It's certainly not a nice thing what's now happening... :o But, is the world already in danger now? Poor Breel, seems he can't do nothing. :( Thanks for the explaining, anyway, Tarot. :P

PS: there's a small smear inside Breel's right eye. ;)

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:08 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
NHWestoN Wrote:
Well, true...Breel ain't the only Celestial in the swamp.


If an angel can summon a demon, maybe another angel can banish it as well. That's where I think Rufus would come in.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:41 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Douglas Collier Wrote:
This is bordering on Hunchback of Notre Dame PG - perhaps pushing the limits on even that. This is the sort of thing that would give me nightmares as a kid. :oops: The comic has kind of been losing the innocent feel I fell in love with - but I’m holding out that the status quo will return after all this, with everyone the wiser. :)


Here's hoping you're wrong. More of this please.

(And fun innocent stuff sometimes, too. Variety is the spice of life.)


Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:04 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
And on the other side of the argument, Keene never stopped to take into consideration that maybe the 3 people telling him not to do the thing (Tarot, Sabrina, and Breel) could possibly be correct. Especially given that Sabrina has been shown to be more even-keeled than Tarot and Breel is literally on Keene's side.
Like, yeah, maybe there's a better option than the one Tarot chose, but there's also a better option for Keene to choose (i.e. sit down, hear everyone out, then give his opinion and hash things out with everyone). I just don't get why this has to be all Tarot's fault (or all Keene's for that matter).

I am really interested in who this being is/was. It says it has been "recalled" which could mean "called forth again" or "remembered". So if Breel's tear recalled this being, I'm curious if perhaps Breel used to know this creature.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:12 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Obbl Wrote:
And on the other side of the argument, Keene never stopped to take into consideration that maybe the 3 people telling him not to do the thing (Tarot, Sabrina, and Breel) could possibly be correct. Especially given that Sabrina has been shown to be more even-keeled than Tarot and Breel is literally on Keene's side.
Like, yeah, maybe there's a better option than the one Tarot chose, but there's also a better option for Keene to choose (i.e. sit down, hear everyone out, then give his opinion and hash things out with everyone). I just don't get why this has to be all Tarot's fault (or all Keene's for that matter).

Yeah, probably. If there's any singular factor someone wanted to blame for this, it would have to be an abject, catastrophic failure to communicate on the part of both sides. Keene should've been less vague on what exactly he planned to use to the mana to do, and how he planned to do it (we never did find out). Tarot and Sabrina should've been less vague on the dangers and given more real advice instead of just going "you can't do this and we're going to stop you" right off the bat.

And then you got the celestials, who have so completely failed in their one job of preventing something just like this from happening that honestly it might have been better if they had just stayed away. Or, at the very least, they should've hooked Keene up with an advisor that wasn't emotionally tied to him.


Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:18 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Although it's a small point, Obbi, I'm intrigued by your though that Breel may know this monster from a previous encounter. The fact that a wounded tear unleashed all this is still, perhaps, part of the resolution.... Perhaps.


Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:39 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
I like though how everyone is still trying to make a bad-guy out of Tarot and Keene, even though the LITERAL DEVIL has shown up. Doesn't he have enough bad guy in him to satisfy both sides?

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:41 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
I don't know, I feel he could use an advocate. :P

Seriously though, I agree that at this point assignment of blame is less important than handling the current crisis.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:53 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
CyberDragon Wrote:
I like though how everyone is still trying to make a bad-guy out of Tarot and Keene, even though the LITERAL DEVIL has shown up. Doesn't he have enough bad guy in him to satisfy both sides?

That's the thing right there, we don't know what that thing or place is. Everything we're assuming is just conjecture on our part because Rick hasn't actually revealed any info about it. Is that a portal to Hell? We assume, and it seems like a safe bet, but we don't know for sure. Is that the devil himself, a greater daemon of some kind, or just a manifestation of Breel's despair? We assume, but we don't know. The best we have is that this is the result of when "you manifest an abstract concept with ultimate power."


Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:57 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
leinglo Wrote:
That's the thing right there, we don't know what that thing or place is. Everything we're assuming is just conjecture on our part because Rick hasn't actually revealed any info about it. Is that a portal to Hell? We assume, and it seems like a safe bet, but we don't know for sure. Is that the devil himself, a greater daemon of some kind, or just a manifestation of Breel's despair? We assume, but we don't know. The best we have is that this is the result of when "you manifest an abstract concept with ultimate power."


Well, we know more than that. First off, it's name, The Forgotten, implies it was cast or discarded there to be left behind and forgotten. Second, the symbol in it's eyes are way too specific to have been unintentional.

http://symbolism.wikia.com/wiki/The_Leviathan_Cross

That symbol is called the "Leviathan Cross" and is the alchemical symbol for sulfur. However, it has a second name: Satan's Cross, as apparently it was used by Anton LaVey to be a symbol of the devil.

Ugh... I... better climb out of the abyss of this research before things get too dark. Scary where a couple seconds of googling will take you sometimes. :shock:

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:23 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Welcome to my domain! Behold the shape of things to come! The time has come for the forces of Hell to escape their prison, and drive mankind... into darkness.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:27 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
CyberDragon Wrote:
the symbol in it's eyes are way too specific to have been unintentional.

http://symbolism.wikia.com/wiki/The_Leviathan_Cross

That symbol is called the "Leviathan Cross" and is the alchemical symbol for sulfur. However, it has a second name: Satan's Cross, as apparently it was used by Anton LaVey to be a symbol of the devil.


Which is funny, because apparently Rick chose to use that symbol because it was less obvious than just an inverted pentagram, and yet it's causing us to draw even more specific conclusions than a pentagram would've.


Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:33 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Soerix Wrote:
and now the highly disturbing design of that satanic dragon creature... Is this comic getting less and less PG? :(

It's really more of a goat.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:36 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
In medieval and early modern Europe, folklore often depicted satan as taking the form of a goat when convening and cavorting with mortal followers like witches and sorcerers.


Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:42 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
NHWestoN Wrote:
In medieval and early modern Europe, folklore often depicted satan as taking the form of a goat when convening and cavorting with mortal followers like witches and sorcerers.

And that image arose mostly as a way of literally demonizing greek mythology. Satyrs, fauns, and the greek god Pan in particular.


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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
leinglo Wrote:
And that image arose mostly as a way of literally demonizing greek mythology. Satyrs, fauns, and the greek god Pan in particular.


I thought it was more because of the super-creepy eyes goats have.

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leinglo Wrote:
Which is funny, because apparently Rick chose to use that symbol because it was less obvious than just an inverted pentagram, and yet it's causing us to draw even more specific conclusions than a pentagram would've.


Ah heh... umm... Well, I heard someone say it was the symbol for sulfur in alchemy, so I did a google search on my phone. I totally wouldn't have gotten it had someone not mentioned that. It was a much less obvious symbol to use, and demonstrates Rick did research. I respect that.

Point is though, devil or not, an all-powerful demon from the fiery pits has arrived and people are still arguing over whether Tarot or Keene is the bad guy.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:52 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
I'm gonna say this right now. To all going "Housepets is no longer PG cause it has things that are not nice!!!", here's what the PG rating means.

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"PG - Parental Guidance. Some material may not be suitable for children. The movie may have mildly strong language and some violence, but no substance use or physical abuse."

So yeah, PG doesn't mean "contains nothing objectionable, rude, naughty, frightening, disturbing, OR anything that might SUGGEST the presence of these", the rating you're looking for is G. And even then, films that have the G rating have some dark stuff before.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:08 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Oh, if people want to talk disturbing in Housepets, I would also direct you to this page from the "good-old" early days:
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With mouse characters we’ve grown to know like Spo and Squeak, this is actually a little horrifying in hindsight.

Compared to an on-panel death, are warp-portals, hell-daemons and the end of days really so bad?

Okay, yeah, maybe they still are.


Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:28 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Only goat demon I can recall is Baphomet. Not sure where that one is originally from. However, Tarot said that it's an abstract concept given form, if I understand her correctly. So is this a construct, or is it a true demon? "The Forgotten"? As in forgotten being? Or if it is a construct, forgotten part of yourself, as it seems to be connected to Breel specifically? Crack theory time, if artificial, a manifestation of Breels' suppressed darkness? :geek:

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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
I’d say it’s less about PG rating than the apparent genre shift; lately the comic has been pushing into the uncomfortable realm of drama (and now horror) that clashes with the comic’s previously established “slice-of-life-slash-romantic-comedy about animals” (with a little fantasy multiverse nonsense) genre. It’s gotten too serious, with only a few quick lighthearted moments in between.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:43 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Douglas Collier Wrote:
lately the comic has been pushing into the uncomfortable realm of drama (and now horror) that clashes with the comic’s previously established “slice-of-life-slash-romantic-comedy about animals” (with a little fantasy multiverse nonsense) genre. It’s gotten too serious, with only a few quick lighthearted moments in between.

Okay I'll give you that. While I'm a little on the fence on whether the drama in recent arcs is a good or bad thing, I will admit to noticing that the only time Housepets seems able to be, well, funny, these days is during the arc intermissions.


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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
So overall people have been making very good points as to what this actually is, and with the given evidence I've been able to come up with these conclusions:

A: This is not the Devil, it's a celestial, godly, or demi-godly being that acts more like a force rather than a deity. According to Tarot this being was summoned in an equivalent to what Breel's tear signified as a wish or desire, and can only understand anguish and destruction, as that is what it is composed of. The Devil would not be this simple, they'd have to be able to be more clever and thoughtful. They are in charge of an entire realm and likely a bunch of celestials as well. They must consider rules and keep things in check, they'd likely be a lot like Bahamut. This, however, has a one track mind and cant think of much beyond what it can perceive about itself.

B: The Forgotten is likely not in hell. Think about the name "The Forgotten" and what it said, "It is recalled". If it was in hell, it'd be pretty hard to forget and would be around all the time. This also adds to it not being The Devil, how and why would the Devil have been locked away like this? Horrible as he may be (to bad people keep in mind, guy's just doin' his job) he's kinda necessary to keep the gears turning in the afterlife. It's likely this being was actually banished. Too powerful, dangerous, simple, and compulsive to be let exist in either the celestial or mortal realm. It's a mindless monster, and as such is chained up and restrained even in it's own realm. It could be a realm IN hell, but it's definitely not near the core or apart of the main section. Another layer, if you will, it's own layer even.

C: Breel did not create The Forgotten, or at least his tear wish didn't. Think back again to what it said and what it's name is, The Forgotten and Recalled are both past tense. It was brought BACK into reality because of the tear, it's the closest equivalent physical thing that could equate to the desires and feelings that a tear can symbolize, let alone that of an angel in a giant source of magical power. It's possible Breel may know of this being, or may have been the one to create it originally, but I doubt the latter. It'd be pretty hard for any celestial being not to know of a being this intimidating and powerful though, especially when your job is preventing the possible wish that is bringing it back.
That being said, people have mentioned the whole sulfur thing. It may have been created with a wish, but not with mana, with alchemy. That is somethign to keep in mind as well. Or it could just emphasize that it is raw negative emotion given form.

D: It may be too powerful to be stopped by the pets and possibly celestials at the level of Kitsune. Yes yes mortals do tend to defeat gods all the time, but considering this one had to be locked away, likely by other celestials, thaaaaat seems like it may be a bit of a stretch. It's probably a celestial monster, that can either mean it's either more powerful than or weaker than normal celestials. Celestials (as seen by Dragon's fight with the snow celestial who's name always escapes me) have a difficult time defeating one another even over the simplest of spats. This one doesn't seem to have any restraint besides the ones given to it. From what Tarot said, it's only goal is to destroy, and seems to exist for that sole reason. It will NOT be something any random mortal with a hat enchantment or a ex-mortal is gonna be able to stop. Either Bahamut's gonna have to come in an put his foot down or they're gonna have to try and preform some kind of ritual to banish it again. Fighting it is a death wish for the entire planet ^^;
Then again, Kitsune's basically the overseer of Universe Prime (and Universe Galifrax?), so he might be pretty powerful. (Yes, NOW we can start powerscaling characters)

E: Worst comes to worst, Bahamut's probably not gonna let an entire planet's population suddenly be shoved into the afterlife.
Can you imagine how inconvenient that'd be? It'd become so crowded! Imagine the line! Imagine how long the paperwork sorting people would take! :lol:
Either it's gotta be sealed back to it's own realm or they're gonna need some MAJOR divine intervention. Or we can always just turn back time like, 5 minutes, just this once. :P

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:12 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Seems that Heaven doesn't run on our concept of time and space, judging from King and Fox spending what felt like months when it likely wasn't more than a day, and Keene experienced a lot in the time that he was underwater. And considering that there are at minimum three confirmed realities (frost giant's home, Gallifrax, and Prime) and there's no telling how long each existed, so space in Heaven is likely a non-issue. I don't think a single planet would make that much of a dent. Though yeah, let's try to avoid that, good idea to postpone the End of Days for a while longer.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:29 pm
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Honestly though? As much as I called it the devil, that was mostly to convey a point I was trying to make. I think that this thing is the embodiment of Breel's pain, suffering, sadness, and fear. Things he "forgot" when he went to heaven. Because going to heaven forced the forgetting of these things, it was like they were bound up and shoved away. We saw in that scene with Keene in the pool in heaven looking at his memories, and that memories were one of the few things that could actually hurt you in heaven. It seems that negative emotions are powerful enough to hurt the immortal soul, which is much more resilient than anything physical. Thus, a being representing these would be extremely powerful. When Breel went to heaven and he was forced to forget all his pain, this creature representing that pain was locked away and forgotten, only to be "recalled" now by Breel once again experiencing that pain.

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Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:02 am
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
CyberDragon Wrote:
Honestly though? As much as I called it the devil, that was mostly to convey a point I was trying to make. I think that this thing is the embodiment of Breel's pain, suffering, sadness, and fear. Things he "forgot" when he went to heaven. Because going to heaven forced the forgetting of these things, it was like they were bound up and shoved away. We saw in that scene with Keene in the pool in heaven looking at his memories, and that memories were one of the few things that could actually hurt you in heaven. It seems that negative emotions are powerful enough to hurt the immortal soul, which is much more resilient than anything physical. Thus, a being representing these would be extremely powerful. When Breel went to heaven and he was forced to forget all his pain, this creature representing that pain was locked away and forgotten, only to be "recalled" now by Breel once again experiencing that pain.

...And when you manifest that recalled pain with ultimate power...
...
Holy carp, I actually think you may have actually hit the nail right on the head there. Out of all of our theories so far, that one makes the most sense.


Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:28 am
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Grape eating a mouse i wouldn't consider it disturbing, though i feel sorry for the mouse nonetheless. =P

CyberDragon Wrote:
Honestly though? As much as I called it the devil, that was mostly to convey a point I was trying to make. I think that this thing is the embodiment of Breel's pain, suffering, sadness, and fear. Things he "forgot" when he went to heaven. Because going to heaven forced the forgetting of these things, it was like they were bound up and shoved away. We saw in that scene with Keene in the pool in heaven looking at his memories, and that memories were one of the few things that could actually hurt you in heaven. It seems that negative emotions are powerful enough to hurt the immortal soul, which is much more resilient than anything physical. Thus, a being representing these would be extremely powerful. When Breel went to heaven and he was forced to forget all his pain, this creature representing that pain was locked away and forgotten, only to be "recalled" now by Breel once again experiencing that pain.


Now there's a good theory. I keep thinking that he unleashed something foul, but Tarot's description fits this logic better.

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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
CHAOKOCartoons Wrote:
So overall people have been making very good points as to what this actually is, and with the given evidence I've been able to come up with these conclusions:

A: This is not the Devil, it's a celestial, godly, or demi-godly being that acts more like a force rather than a deity. According to Tarot this being was summoned in an equivalent to what Breel's tear signified as a wish or desire, and can only understand anguish and destruction, as that is what it is composed of. The Devil would not be this simple, they'd have to be able to be more clever and thoughtful. They are in charge of an entire realm and likely a bunch of celestials as well. They must consider rules and keep things in check, they'd likely be a lot like Bahamut. This, however, has a one track mind and cant think of much beyond what it can perceive about itself.


I do agree with some of these, if Celestials take care of souls in heaven, why would they not do it in hell? Let's remember that when Keene met Cerberus, he assumed her job was to Guard something (the Doors/Path to the underworld seem like the automatic answer), she didn't deny Keene's assumption but rather said she was promoted.

About what exactly the roll of The Forgotten is, CyberDragon has a solid theory; I remember a show where a soul choose to enter hell 'cuz going heaven will make them forget many things, as memories are something one must give up in order to move on; CyberDragon's theory about memories and how they are tied to The Forgotten seem pretty fitting.


Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:52 am
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
CyberDragon Wrote:
Honestly though? As much as I called it the devil, that was mostly to convey a point I was trying to make. I think that this thing is the embodiment of Breel's pain, suffering, sadness, and fear. Things he "forgot" when he went to heaven. Because going to heaven forced the forgetting of these things, it was like they were bound up and shoved away. We saw in that scene with Keene in the pool in heaven looking at his memories, and that memories were one of the few things that could actually hurt you in heaven. It seems that negative emotions are powerful enough to hurt the immortal soul, which is much more resilient than anything physical. Thus, a being representing these would be extremely powerful. When Breel went to heaven and he was forced to forget all his pain, this creature representing that pain was locked away and forgotten, only to be "recalled" now by Breel once again experiencing that pain.


Now that I think of it, this could also explain why the creature seems to be crying. If it is a manifestation of Breel's forgotten sorrow, anger, etc it makes sense for it to be weeping.

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Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:18 am
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Post Re: 2018/01/15 - Lesson Learned
Everyone's overreacting to this page. I'm calling the next page:

Everyone who knows what's going on: Oh ***-

Dallas and crew, with Kitsune smiling: MMO Raid boss!


Mod Edit: Partially typing out profanity is considered evading the filter. Don't do this.


Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:28 am
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