2017/12/8 - Mr Sandman

Brighttail · Post by **Brighttail** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:01 pm

GameCobra wrote:Find it amusing the way Breel saved Tarot from falling in with one hand. Like a samurai catching a blade =3

I'm surprised Keene got out of Tarot's grasp so easily as well. Even with the hat, she had him by the butt/tail. x3

Lastly, now i'm really curious what the other angels will be up to? If Breel is protecting Tarot from landing in the mana, then i'm assuming they are there to watch over the mana as well... but differently?

You obviously have never owned a ferret as they can squirm outta anything!

As I said, Keene is trying to take a shortcut, which I cannot see Heaven being very happy about. I mean Pete's temple was in the desert for 5000 years and he served a 100,000 year sentence. Time isn't linear for these folks so short cuts aren't something they really do. That being said, if Keene gets his 'wish' it takes away free will/choice from everyone else which kinda goes against the whole point of free will/choice.

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:44 pm

Told yah ... Mind-tranquilizin' !

Argent · Post by **Argent** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:17 am

Bandit1990 wrote:Maybe,

But I feel like there's been too much buildup to end on an anti-climax like that.

BUT CORNHOLE AS AN OLYMPIC SPORT?

Anticlimax?

You got something against cornhole?

Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBTjc_64iz8

jothki · Post by **jothki** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:42 am

Brighttail wrote:
GameCobra wrote:Find it amusing the way Breel saved Tarot from falling in with one hand. Like a samurai catching a blade =3

I'm surprised Keene got out of Tarot's grasp so easily as well. Even with the hat, she had him by the butt/tail. x3

Lastly, now i'm really curious what the other angels will be up to? If Breel is protecting Tarot from landing in the mana, then i'm assuming they are there to watch over the mana as well... but differently?
You obviously have never owned a ferret as they can squirm outta anything!

As I said, Keene is trying to take a shortcut, which I cannot see Heaven being very happy about. I mean Pete's temple was in the desert for 5000 years and he served a 100,000 year sentence. Time isn't linear for these folks so short cuts aren't something they really do. That being said, if Keene gets his 'wish' it takes away free will/choice from everyone else which kinda goes against the whole point of free will/choice.

Many of the rules were "arbitrary" ones that the Dragon and Pete chose to follow as part of the game. I think the only actual law is to not muck around with souls, and that may or may not apply to beings other than demigods.

Right now, Kitsune should be effectively omnipotent as long as no power on his level is paying attention. If he doesn't want something to happen, it won't, so on some level what's going on has divine sanction. Whatever the angels are here for, it probably isn't to stop the mana from being used.

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:06 am

"Intrinsic Benevolence" ..... Time for the grand entrence. Or maybe Sophie....

Post by **CyberDragon** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:25 am

I'm definitely rooting for Tarot because of Carnivore Confusion.

Basically if all humans and animals are equal then what do the carnivores do for food? Assuming that it means all animals have the same protections as humans under the law then either the carnivores can't eat anything because the lives of the prey are legally protected, or they can kill anything as long as they eat it. This creates a society like the one in Kevin and Kell where the inhabitants can literally kill anyone they feel like as long as they eat them afterwards. A society like that cannot function because everyone would be too in fear of everyone else to work together. Inevitably battles would be fought over survival until one species is once again at the top.

That or everyone just eats fish, but I don't think all carnivores can live off of fish, and the fish population would decline rapidly. Maybe bugs? That's still a lot of bugs that would be needed...

Basically anything that eats meat would be in trouble. Either they end up in a major conflict badly outnumbered by their armed prey, or their food goes short with a great deal of competition for what's available.

Argent · Post by **Argent** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:32 pm

CyberDragon wrote:That or everyone just eats fish, but I don't think all carnivores can live off of fish, and the fish population would decline rapidly. Maybe bugs? That's still a lot of bugs that would be needed...

Fish farming is pretty efficient, compared to mammalian meat, and bugs? Bugs outmass vertebrates like 20:1.

Bandit1990 · Post by **Bandit1990** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:37 pm

Argent wrote:Fish farming is pretty efficient, compared to mammalian meat, and bugs? Bugs outmass vertebrates like 20:1.

That is a salient point.

However, I don't like fish, and the idea of eating bugs ....... eugh.

And now it sounds like I'm switching sides, I'm still rooting for Keene, but as I said before, I don't really think he'll actually get everything he wants.

Also the food chain thing didn't really occur to me

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:27 pm

Babylon Gardens meets Zootopia....

Your question is kinda moot to this arc, CyberDragon, but in the larger schemes of Keene's vision, it's extremely pertinent.

What few hints we're given are kinda ambiguous since legal equally between humans and animals, as Keene tells Breel, assumes conflict ("equal weapons"). There have been few references to predation in the stories and only a few actual incidents, but Keene does not seem to to envision Isaiah's "Peaceable Kingdom."

Regards.

Argent · Post by **Argent** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:32 pm

Bandit1990 wrote:However, I don't like fish, and the idea of eating bugs ....... eugh.

Shrimp are bugs.

Post by **CyberDragon** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:36 pm

I'm not really sure what you mean. This arc is about Keene trying to establish his vision which could lead to the scenario I described and Tarot trying to stop him. If what I said is pertinent to Keene's vision and the arc is about Keene trying to use the mana to bring that vision around and Tarot trying to stop him, then I don't see how the question is moot. I was just saying why I want Tarot to win.

BTW I didn't think of this before, but if they managed to get every predator to live off of fish and bugs, which is potentially possible but probably not healthy, then you have an overpopulation problem especially with mice and rabbits and the like.

GameCobra · Post by **GameCobra** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:25 pm

Plot twist: Everyone went home and it's just Breel, Keene and Tarot.

VoidGaming404 · Post by **VoidGaming404** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:04 pm

CyberDragon wrote:I'm definitely rooting for Tarot because of Carnivore Confusion.

Basically if all humans and animals are equal then what do the carnivores do for food? Assuming that it means all animals have the same protections as humans under the law then either the carnivores can't eat anything because the lives of the prey are legally protected, or they can kill anything as long as they eat it. This creates a society like the one in Kevin and Kell where the inhabitants can literally kill anyone they feel like as long as they eat them afterwards. A society like that cannot function because everyone would be too in fear of everyone else to work together. Inevitably battles would be fought over survival until one species is once again at the top.

That or everyone just eats fish, but I don't think all carnivores can live off of fish, and the fish population would decline rapidly. Maybe bugs? That's still a lot of bugs that would be needed...

Basically anything that eats meat would be in trouble. Either they end up in a major conflict badly outnumbered by their armed prey, or their food goes short with a great deal of competition for what's available.

Actually, as far as I'm aware, Keene wants to make pets equal... I don't think he's ever extended that to animals like deer. So in terms like that, I'd assume that besides the animals owned in some way by humans, and the wolves, the others would be free to carnivores.

Argent · Post by **Argent** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:07 pm

Here's what Keene's working for, fulfilling Pete's promise to Henry Milton:

Doesn't say just pets.

Though technically equivocation means <<the use of ambiguous language to conceal the truth or to avoid committing oneself; prevarication.
"I say this without equivocation">> which is kind of a huge loophole. A recursive one at that.

VoidGaming404 · Post by **VoidGaming404** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:19 pm

True... I guess I forgot about this page :/

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:59 pm

Well, Cyber, it's moot at this point simply because we don't yet know who wins - but your issue about the food source becomes extremely important, extremely "unmoot" (is that a word?), if Keene wins!

As Argent suggests, Pete SEEMS to include all critters in his grand strategy but (1) Keene may have his own variation since be seems to be (as you suggest) focused on " civilized" animals, that is pets, and (2) trusting our favorite Gryphon is not a small concern since he is a master of "calculated ambiguities."

Otherwise, like Void says, we would get a society of the enfranchised eaters and disenfranchised eaten. Zach, then, is safe because he's a pet but Jessica and Ink are imperiled because they are not. Tthey are included in certain recipes. CyberDragon's issue about population controls also enters here with that ol'balance of nature thing.

At this point then, Keene seems to want a transformed society based on equality between humans and animals but (1) competition (and conflict) persist; (2) equality of weapons is a key component but how weapons are distributed is unspecified, and (3) will his vision deal with the ancient division between feral and domestic as well as carnivore versus herbivore or do these become the new polarizations of his reformed community? At this point, I'm still aligned with Team Tarot.

Very abstract but fun to ponder. I still side with those who think Kitsune is going to snatch the prizes and everyone's gonna need a shower.

Regards and a good weekend to all.

Keldor · Post by **Keldor** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:49 pm

Even Pete pretty strongly implies that the promise he made is unreasonable and probably unobtainable.

I'm going to have to say Tarot is correct about things. Quite honestly, she's the only one remotely qualified to deal with this sort of thing - she's dealt with the supernatural and alternate realities and all and I wouldn't be surprised if she's seen the aftermath of this sort of thing first hand in other universes. If she says something has existential dangers, she's probably right. The fact that Heaven saw fit to send down angels as a safeguard is also pretty suggestive.

Keene's not just playing with fire, he's playing with a flamethrower. And he's too focused on his goals to really appreciate this.

GameCobra · Post by **GameCobra** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:21 am

The mana pool Pete described would've benefited Peanut the most, but I also questioned why Fido and Grape were pieces back then? (Later confirmed because he thought a purple cat was cool. Fido on the otherhand...)

Post by **CyberDragon** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:02 am

Ok, NHWestoN. Mostly I was just explaining why I hope Tarot wins.

Argent · Post by **Argent** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:37 am

Still think the most practical way to equalize humans and animals is to turn humans into animals.

ESPECIALLY MARTENS. MAKE ALL HUMANS INTO MARTENS.

Well, it would be snuggly.

Not A Furry · Post by **Not A Furry** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:40 am

Argent wrote:Still think the most practical way to equalize humans and animals is to turn humans into animals.

ESPECIALLY MARTENS. MAKE ALL HUMANS INTO MARTENS.

Well, it would be snuggly.

Or animals into humans

Argent · Post by **Argent** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:23 am

Not A Furry wrote:
Argent wrote:Still think the most practical way to equalize humans and animals is to turn humans into animals.

ESPECIALLY MARTENS. MAKE ALL HUMANS INTO MARTENS.

Well, it would be snuggly.
Or animals into humans

Ewwww.

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:27 am

Wonder how Thomas and Sophie are doing?

johnwolf · Post by **johnwolf** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:15 am

Argent wrote:Still think the most practical way to equalize humans and animals is to turn humans into animals.

Not the worse thing to happen, i mean, as long as they always got opposable thumbs. I'd kill the wish maker if i turned into something that didn't let me play my videogames or surf the internet.

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:12 pm

Humans are animals anyways, aren't we?

Maybe Sabrina's translation spelll could help ic Keene's plan goes global.
An old dairyman told me when k was small that "all animals speak english - they just have very limited vocabularies and really thick accents."

Not A Furry · Post by **Not A Furry** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:20 pm

Being an animal is overrated, all that money spent on shampoo and no fingerprints so your smartphone won't work :/

Argent · Post by **Argent** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:25 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nc2C9PQJ2A

MX682XM · Post by **MX682XM** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:42 pm

Most of our problems would be solved pretty fast if humans were turned into animals. Personally I wouldn't have any problem with it, should it be my destiny spending the rest of my life as an animal(my only concern would be the shorten lifespan). It would be better for everyone if they were turned into their favorite animals though.

Argent · Post by **Argent** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:13 pm

Not A Furry wrote:Being an animal is overrated, all that money spent on shampoo and no fingerprints so your smartphone won't work :/

Mane and Tail is pretty cheap, and great quality... I used to use it for my hair. As for the phones, they'd just switch to resistive screens for claws instead of styluses.

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:22 pm

Man, I love this site - you learn the most amazing things reading here !!!

Post by **D-Rock** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:20 am

MX682XM wrote:Most of our problems would be solved pretty fast if humans were turned into animals. Personally I wouldn't have any problem with it, should it be my destiny spending the rest of my life as an animal(my only concern would be the shorten lifespan). It would be better for everyone if they were turned into their favorite animals though.

There's still a working food chain, people likely aren't prepared to live as animals do, and then we will likely start fights as to who's on top, with some animals being less equipped to fight some of the other species.

Personally, I don't see this course of action as a good thing.

Argent · Post by **Argent** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:14 am

D-Rock wrote:There's still a working food chain, people likely aren't prepared to live as animals do,

Neither are animals.

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:28 am

"No arts, no letters, no society, and worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death; and the life of all is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, ... and SHORT." Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan, 1652.

..... Or, more succinctly and less poetical, "Miles, our life sucks!", Lucretia Wolf.
..... Or , doubling back to your point, Argent, "ever'body's gonna eat somebody.", Wiley Catt, Pogo Possum.

But... "with equal weapons." Keene Milton.

Naro Rivers · Post by **Naro Rivers** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:03 pm

Buster wrote:
Naro Rivers wrote:
Bandit1990 wrote:Is that someone who sunders dreams, or someone who sunders with dreams?
...
...
...Yes.
*wheels both of you off to the old-folks home*

But I'm only twenty-four!

Not A Furry wrote:Being an animal is overrated, all that money spent on shampoo and no fingerprints so your smartphone won't work :/

Password lock it. If it's a good password, it's more secure.

Not A Furry · Post by **Not A Furry** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:34 am

Naro Rivers wrote:
Not A Furry wrote:Being an animal is overrated, all that money spent on shampoo and no fingerprints so your smartphone won't work :/
Password lock it. If it's a good password, it's more secure.

I meant the screen

Argent · Post by **Argent** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:39 am

That's why Cinnamon was still using a flip-phone.

Buster · Post by **Buster** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:40 am

if my phone can react to a fingernail, a claw should be no problem. besides, numerous species have pads.
your argument is invalid.

Welsh Halfwit · Post by **Welsh Halfwit** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:54 am

Buster wrote:if my phone can react to a fingernail, a claw should be no problem. besides, numerous species have pads.
your argument is invalid.

But a claw can crack the screen.

NHWestoN · Post by **NHWestoN** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:10 am

...and even more complications if you wind up an ungulate.

Buster · Post by **Buster** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:16 pm

Welsh Halfwit wrote:
Buster wrote:if my phone can react to a fingernail, a claw should be no problem. besides, numerous species have pads.
your argument is invalid.
But a claw can crack the screen.

that's what screen protectors are for. there are ones that a drill bit can't even pierce, i'm sure you can find a claw-proof one.