Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
2017/11/20 - End Of The Line 
Author Message
Smiley McSmiles
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 2240
Location: The Housepets Forum ^^
Post Re: 2017/11/20 - End Of The Line
It's been floating around along with the Dragon is the true villain shtick ever since that became a thing.

_________________
Image


Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:05 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:09 pm
Posts: 380
Post Re: 2017/11/20 - End Of The Line
Tarot's a mysterious and complicated lady, so she's got the potential to veer into the shadowland. She's not shown the geek- gang a lot of patience, either. Maybe she's not alone in that elevator... Still, I can't see her going totally off the rails.


Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:24 pm
Profile
Banner Artist
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:33 pm
Posts: 1464
Images: 13
Location: On this 3 dimensional shape we call "The place we happen to exist I guess?"
Post Re: 2017/11/20 - End Of The Line
I mean come on, clearly we couldn't have a morally grey character that isn't perfectly good or purely villainous, that's too complicated and interesting! What a ridiculous concept! :P

_________________
ImageImageImage


Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:24 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:26 pm
Posts: 3087
Images: 2
Location: Among the Stars
Post Re: 2017/11/20 - End Of The Line
Argent Wrote:
Also, where is this "Tarot is a villain" schtick coming from?

A combination of boredom and her mood swings I would imagine.

_________________
Bonnie - HPU:RGV 7-3-7-5-7-7-5
Sandy - HPU:RGV 3-8-3-4-7-7-4
Strike - SRP:LA 8-3-8-10-5-5-3
Epsilon - Steelhaven 10-10-5-2-5-5-5 (5-7)
Kobor - BOH 9-6-10-4-5-3-5 (6)
Talya - BOH 5-10-6-4-9-3-5 (6)
Kol - BOH 9-8-8-5-5-4-5 (4)
Characters


Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:23 pm
Profile
Game Master
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:09 am
Posts: 8688
Location: Wales, a luverrly land with noisy neighbours.
Post Re: 2017/11/20 - End Of The Line
Buster Wrote:
Argent Wrote:
Also, where is this "Tarot is a villain" schtick coming from?

A combination of boredom and her mood swings I would imagine.

Also from the fact that, with that appearance, she's not there to talk turkey and eat cup cakes.

_________________
The avatar is Corp Davidstow, STEELHAVEN's Chief of Security.

Kilo - 2-8-3-9-10-2-5
Kilo
Leslie – 4-6-4-5-6-9-7
Leslie
David Campbell - 7 – 8 – 9 – 5 – 4 – 4 – 6
Corp Davidstow 6 - 6 - 7 - 3 - 6 - 6 - 5 (reactions 7 Combat 9)


Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:31 pm
Profile
Smiley McSmiles
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 2240
Location: The Housepets Forum ^^
Post Re: 2017/11/20 - End Of The Line
Yeah, but considering she needs to drain the mana pool so that no one else can use it, it could just as easily be that she's going in full force to dissuade the others from interfering in things they don't understand. Given what little we know, it's just as easy to cast her as the hero as it is to cast her as the villain in this instance. That's why a few of us are confused why there are so many people looking to paint Tarot as a villain.

_________________
Image


Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:05 pm
Profile
Game Master
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:09 am
Posts: 8688
Location: Wales, a luverrly land with noisy neighbours.
Post Re: 2017/11/20 - End Of The Line
Obbl Wrote:
Yeah, but considering she needs to drain the mana pool so that no one else can use it, it could just as easily be that she's going in full force to dissuade the others from interfering in things they don't understand. Given what little we know, it's just as easy to cast her as the hero as it is to cast her as the villain in this instance. That's why a few of us are confused why there are so many people looking to paint Tarot as a villain.

Because she's taken all these chances and explained nothing. She's merely indicated she has to destroy it. She's not given any real reason why and she's invited no debate. It's her desire over all. The reason so many are painting her as a Villain? She's acting like one.

I don't think of her as a villain. I just think of her as a know-it-all who doesn't trust or believe in anyone around her thanks to being bonded to Spirit Dragon for years.

_________________
The avatar is Corp Davidstow, STEELHAVEN's Chief of Security.

Kilo - 2-8-3-9-10-2-5
Kilo
Leslie – 4-6-4-5-6-9-7
Leslie
David Campbell - 7 – 8 – 9 – 5 – 4 – 4 – 6
Corp Davidstow 6 - 6 - 7 - 3 - 6 - 6 - 5 (reactions 7 Combat 9)


Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:00 am
Profile
Smiley McSmiles
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 2240
Location: The Housepets Forum ^^
Post Re: 2017/11/20 - End Of The Line
It's been explained to us already by Sabrina. They reject using the mana for Keene's plan, because it's far too risky, so they're gonna drain the mana pool. Explaining this to the nerds involves a lot of time wasted trying to bring people up to speed on events that are going to be hard to believe, and Peanut et al trust Tarot implicitly in supernatural matters, so there's not a large need to explain anything to them.
Like, I get that it's possible to read Tarot as a villain, but it seems just as easy to read her as not a villain. And given the history of Housepets! thus far of pretty much always having nuanced character actions and decisions, I continue to be confused at people's jumping to paint someone in the wrong (especially when we don't even have hindsight to look back on).

_________________
Image


Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:14 am
Profile
Game Master
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:09 am
Posts: 8688
Location: Wales, a luverrly land with noisy neighbours.
Post Re: 2017/11/20 - End Of The Line
Obbl Wrote:
It's been explained to us already by Sabrina... and Peanut et al trust Tarot implicitly in supernatural matters, so there's not a large need to explain anything to them.

Sabrina explaining is NOT Tarot explaining. It's in Sabrina's nature to explain. I can't recall it being in Tarot's. Maybe that's because Sabrina's often there to do it or maybe it's because Spirit Dragon never explained to her so how could she explain to others but it can come across as 'why bother explaining if I need to do it anyway?' And I don't think that's true of the Sandwich crew anymore. It's almost certainly not true of Grape.
Obbl Wrote:
Like, I get that it's possible to read Tarot as a villain, but it seems just as easy to read her as not a villain. And given the history of Housepets! thus far of pretty much always having nuanced character actions and decisions, I continue to be confused at people's jumping to paint someone in the wrong (especially when we don't even have hindsight to look back on).

I can agree with you there. I DON'T see her as a Villain. I see her as Daredevil. She can be dark, she's certainly driven, she can hurt those around her without meaning to and she needs to believe in them as those who are still her friends believe in her. And she doesn't.

_________________
The avatar is Corp Davidstow, STEELHAVEN's Chief of Security.

Kilo - 2-8-3-9-10-2-5
Kilo
Leslie – 4-6-4-5-6-9-7
Leslie
David Campbell - 7 – 8 – 9 – 5 – 4 – 4 – 6
Corp Davidstow 6 - 6 - 7 - 3 - 6 - 6 - 5 (reactions 7 Combat 9)


Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:32 am
Profile
Smiley McSmiles
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 2240
Location: The Housepets Forum ^^
Post Re: 2017/11/20 - End Of The Line
But that doesn't help explain my confusion :P

_________________
Image


Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:43 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:34 pm
Posts: 4882
Location: Noonkkot <32,64,51>
Post Re: 2017/11/20 - End Of The Line
Welsh Halfwit Wrote:
Also from the fact that, with that appearance, she's not there to talk turkey and eat cup cakes.
"Good" doesn't mean "nice". Consider Esmerelda Weatherwax.

_________________
Cinnamon "Sixtoes" Walton (M Pine Marten #B06060) @
Pitchpipe (F Jackrabbit #808060) @


Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:23 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:09 pm
Posts: 380
Post Re: 2017/11/20 - End Of The Line
The Tarot villainy thread arises from several streams, starting from the very moment she walks into the lives of Peanut and Grape. Intruding at a time when they both are struggling with clarifying their feelings for each other, she seems imperious to high-jack their emotional lives, divert Peanut and Grape away from each other, and all for the selfish gaming ploys of her patroness, Spirit Dragon. While she has evolved from there and become a fuller character,, inspiring some empathy, we are haunted by a sense that she's still playing games, has selfish and sinister ulterior motives, does not really care about Peanut, Sabrina, or others we care intensely about, and is a plain ol' "cold fish". We are haunted by Grape's warning to the entranced Peanut upon their first encounter with. Tarot, " This girl is completely INSANE!"

But Babylon Gardens is a dynamic world, and it's residents always changing, growing, regressing, reflecting, wounded and healing. Tarot, like Maxwell, Keene, and Fox, are complicated creatures, and thus fascinate us because their motives for action are not always clear and they are not always "nice". As we've seen before, Tarot walks in shadows at times and cannot explain these forces, perhaps because she herself does not fully understand them ... And she doesn't suffer fools (or geeks) gladly. She uses others, Sabrina, Fox, even Peanut ... am I the only one a little startled to see the gentle, placid, so self-contained Mungo turn angry and aggressive? Yet, her sense of mission, of menaces lurking in ordinary things, her lonely intensity make us want to care about this strange, aloof, driven little dog even while other instincts warn us to suspect there's "a razor blade in the candy dish."

Regards.


Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:13 am
Profile
Banner Artist
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:33 pm
Posts: 1464
Images: 13
Location: On this 3 dimensional shape we call "The place we happen to exist I guess?"
Post Re: 2017/11/20 - End Of The Line
NHWestoN Wrote:
The Tarot villainy thread arises from several streams, starting from the very moment she walks into the lives of Peanut and Grape. Intruding at a time when they both are struggling with clarifying their feelings for each other, she seems imperious to high-jack their emotional lives, divert Peanut and Grape away from each other, and all for the selfish gaming ploys of her patroness, Spirit Dragon. While she has evolved from there and become a fuller character,, inspiring some empathy, we are haunted by a sense that she's still playing games, has selfish and sinister ulterior motives, does not really care about Peanut, Sabrina, or others we care intensely about, and is a plain ol' "cold fish". We are haunted by Grape's warning to the entranced Peanut upon their first encounter with. Tarot, " This girl is completely INSANE!"

But Babylon Gardens is a dynamic world, and it's residents always changing, growing, regressing, reflecting, wounded and healing. Tarot, like Maxwell, Keene, and Fox, are complicated creatures, and thus fascinate us because their motives for action are not always clear and they are not always "nice". As we've seen before, Tarot walks in shadows at times and cannot explain these forces, perhaps because she herself does not fully understand them ... And she doesn't suffer fools (or geeks) gladly. She uses others, Sabrina, Fox, even Peanut ... am I the only one a little startled to see the gentle, placid, so self-contained Mungo turn angry and aggressive? Yet, her sense of mission, of menaces lurking in ordinary things, her lonely intensity make us want to care about this strange, aloof, driven little dog even while other instincts warn us to suspect there's "a razor blade in the candy dish."

Regards.


...you realize Tarot mentioned not wanting to be with Peanut initially right? Dragon forced her to do that for the game, and she later says that she actually did end up liking Peanut (when Dragon herself was trying to win over Peanut). Tarot being a pure villain was shot down the second the Galifrax arc happened by this logic, as not only did she give Peanut a choice, she showed that she genuinely cared and wanted to keep Peanut. Now it can be argued the wording of "I actually wanted to keep him" when talking to Dragon could be seen as a bit possessive or selfish, but regardless that's not so much of an evil trait rather than a personality trait.

Also, Tarot DOES explain most of these "forces" to the audience or Peanut, Grape, King, and Sabrina. She's not THAT mysterious in comparison to most readers, just moreso than other characters.
She understands them, she was (as we learned this arc) raised to think in the mystics and wonders of such forces, just unfortunately treated it more like a science rather than a creative force. Also,
no, Mungo literally hasn't changed at all, he's only been featured in 2 arcs majorly, with a cameo in 1. If he has to rescue someone or is being swung at with an axe, then yes, of course he's going to get serious! :lol: I'm also not even sure what on earth you were saying in that last sentence though. But I'm guessing I can simply answer it by saying "you can save the world and be rude about it". :|

_________________
ImageImageImage


Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:05 pm
Profile WWW

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:09 pm
Posts: 380
Post Re: 2017/11/20 - End Of The Line
Thanks for your insights, CHAOKO. A few reflections on the continuing exchange over Tarot as a villain, a perspective I don't share because it's a simplistic characterization of a complicated and ambiguous figure who continues to evolve. Tarot's entry into the lives of Peanut and Grape - we agree - arises out of her service to Dragon. In other words, she is a willing tool ... expecting rewards we can only conjecture. As established in the great Australia show-down, mortals can successfully defy folks like Dragon and Pete but, despite her deepening feelings for Peanut, she continues to wear Dragon's colors until King's intervention. She has a lot going on her head and is often - as we saw in the Nile Valley arc - conflicted in her emotions, her sense of responsibility, and in dealing with her less illuminated friends. What I don't detect in Tarot is what some readers fear - that Faustian lust for power and domination that might lead her to seize the mana for her own darker purposes, perhaps only dimly understood even by her. She does command, use, and manipulate others - and they play into her work.

As to Mungo, I expressed concern for a possible curve I hoped would not develop, and I appreciate the reassurances offered by those (like yourself) who think my anxieties of him baseless. We'll see. The line "There's always a razor blade in the candy dish" is a variation of the old warning to beware of an evil hidden in something good, enticing, or otherwise positive. To be specific, while I very much believe in Tarot's good intentions, well, the mana offers great power - great power creates (like gold) great temptation - she might, just might, prove unable to resist. After all, if you save the world, aren't you entitled to claim it? Would Tarot do that? I seriously doubt it. Not everybody's so sure. "Completely insane"? Naw. Just complicated... and fascinating.

Regards, of course, means just that. Regards again.


Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:07 pm
Profile
Smiley McSmiles
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 2240
Location: The Housepets Forum ^^
Post Re: 2017/11/20 - End Of The Line
Okay as a note when I feel like a person is being misunderstood, that hits me the hardest. There's a certain injustice that I feel when a person is being judged from a faulty perspective.

I love that Tarot has flaws. She is prone to frustration, lacks the trust in others to share her burdens with them, takes small slights more personally, thinks she knows what is best and doesn't tend to admit to her own faults... She is a flawed being. Yet this is why I love seeing her and Peanut together: even flawed people can make a relationship work (otherwise there would be no relationships). It's the same reason I like Max and Grape's relationship.
So it's frustrating that whenever Tarot does something that could even remotely be construed as "bad," "villainous," or (sometimes) "slightly less than polite" they start talking about her like she is this terrible person doing terrible things rather than a flawed person trying to do what's best, and maybe not succeeding at that but certainly trying.

If people can look at Tarot and see someone who doesn't care about those around her and is trying to play selfish manipulative games with them, that bothers me. There's so many small moments that show Tarot's actual care for Peanut and everyone around her. In fact very rarely are any of her motivations selfishly driven. She mostly does things for other people, and mostly worries about other people. It makes it feel like people are trying really hard to read Tarot as the villain because they don't like her because of the flaws that she has. That's what bothers me. That and the fact that it comes up so often.

_________________
Image


Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:41 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:09 pm
Posts: 380
Post Re: 2017/11/20 - End Of The Line
... And there we have it! Three differing perspectives showing why Tarot - along with many others in Rick's homey pantheon - continues to fascinate readers and why so many people delight in Housepets!.


Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:32 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 56 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.