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2017/10/16 - Love Letters 
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Post Re: 2017/10/16 - Love Letters
Adoring Fan Wrote:
I admit i am trying to be careful in my comparison because in a lot of ways they are different however in a number of ways they are very much the same just through a different lens. For example Duchess IS hard working in her own way, just look how much effort she puts into her shows even to the point of being willing to manipulate someones emotions so that she can get her way at there expense... sort of like how... oh say... Tarot and peanut first met? Showing up at his door while he was an emotional train-wreak due to grape going with max and then manipulating the situation in order to keep an eye on grape. Remember when they first got together she didnt know or love him. She was willing to toy with him because Spirit Dragon told her to... In that one specific way. The willingness to manipulate others and than casually cast them aside when they don't serve an immediate use. Its very Duchess. So much so that i have to wonder weather the reason we see her as good is mostly due to the perspective by which the story has been told.


That was because Tarot on the otherhand felt it was her responsibility to listen to dragon, who could have very well told Tarot that alot of things hinge on Tarot being right. It's hard to gauge how deep Dragon told Tarot what was earth-shattering, but Tarot treats pretty much alot of situation like it's the end of the world - whereas Duchess isn't very responsible and as you said ditches the poor sap when she is done with them. I do think Tarot did have that mentality when she first met Peanut, but has since then mellowed out with him because as she pointed out in this comic that it became an argument that she and dragon were having over it. She could have let Dragon have him if she really wanted to.

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Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:23 am
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Post Re: 2017/10/16 - Love Letters
GameCobra Wrote:
That was because Tarot on the otherhand felt it was her responsibility to listen to dragon, who could have very well told Tarot that alot of things hinge on Tarot being right. It's hard to gauge how deep Dragon told Tarot what was earth-shattering, but Tarot treats pretty much alot of situation like it's the end of the world - whereas Duchess isn't very responsible and as you said ditches the poor sap when she is done with them. I do think Tarot did have that mentality when she first met Peanut, but has since then mellowed out with him because as she pointed out in this comic that it became an argument that she and dragon were having over it. She could have let Dragon have him if she really wanted to.
I don't know... That letter felt akin to her casting him aside. She could have easily just woken them up, but instead decided to just ditch them. Now, she may have left the 'XOXO' at the end, but it seemed very much forced, as if she felt obligated, or was just trying to distract Peanut from the fact that she just left him in a danger ridden temple...

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Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:28 am
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Post Re: 2017/10/16 - Love Letters
I don't know, to me it always has seemed like Tarot simply puts her job first. Not herself. It always felt like for her it's job before personal life which at times means ditching Peanut in order to get the job done. Peanut seems to handle that perfectly fine, and that seems like a thing that would be very reasonable to a dog.
Also I think Tarot may like Peanut's innocent personality enough to not want to "taint" him? (or something along those lines) by dragging him into her job. Like he's a kind of refuge away from the frustrations and challenges of dealing with Celestial sized events, and she just wants him to remain the way he is. That is at least the explanation in my head for why she's always leaving Peanut alone to go deal with stuff.

Also not to harp on the whole manipulation thing, but temporary relationships are kind of the entire point of dating. Getting into a relationship that you're not sure is going to last is perfectly normal for everyday healthy individuals, so I really don't understand why the anger. And she was really up front about the whole thing too. Like her exact words are "I cannot leave unless you accept Peanut fully..." Hard to be more clear that she sees the relationship as temporary.

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Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:47 am
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Post Re: 2017/10/16 - Love Letters
Adoring Fan Wrote:
When hasn't peanut pulled his weight? Yes he is happy go lucky but when it comes down to it hes never dropped the ball on anything of real importance, Or, honestly on anything i can recall.

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Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:28 am
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Post Re: 2017/10/16 - Love Letters
Ok he dropped the ball once :P

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Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:08 am
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Post Re: 2017/10/16 - Love Letters
Yeah, he dropped the ball there, but in his defense she gave him basically no instruction.

Also, her crystal ball let him sell the ticket. It looks like it's set up as a POS terminal, and Peanut, like me, probably assumed that if there was something you couldn't sell, then the system would stop you.

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Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:36 am
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Post Re: 2017/10/16 - Love Letters
In the end, the relationship we always return to is Peanut and Grape. There's just a depth between them that the Grape-Maxwell and Peanut-Tarot have yet to develop. That doesn't mean that they won't. Those arcs belong to Rick's vision. Part of what I've loved about this comic is how minor characters emerge from theI r walk-on roles into more real individuals that we come to care about. Maxwell loves Grape, but his charms and flaws are very different from Peanut. He's sophisticated, clever, a little devious and a bit of a coward. He seems to lack Peanut's sense of excitement and adventure, but he'll ride to the occasion - usually if it's Grape doing the prompting. I really want to like Tarot more than I do. She seems so stiff and cold, even when she tries to be open and loving - maybe that's the arc from which her character is evolving.

...And, I agree, the ties between Peanut and Tarot and between Grape and Maxwell are refracted through their origins in Spirit Dragon's manipulations and thoughtlessness, not the most stable or promising foundations for long term romantic happiness. Perhaps, for now, the best understanding of these four lovers emerges from that old picture of them together in bed, watching a video, Harper's arm draped over an enraptured Maxie, Peanut holding close a contented Tarot, and Peanut and Grape leaning affectionately against each other. Part of the charms of both Peanut and Grape is they both have very big hearts.


Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:14 pm
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Post Re: 2017/10/16 - Love Letters
Obbl Wrote:
I don't know, to me it always has seemed like Tarot simply puts her job first. Not herself. It always felt like for her it's job before personal life which at times means ditching Peanut in order to get the job done. Peanut seems to handle that perfectly fine, and that seems like a thing that would be very reasonable to a dog.
Also I think Tarot may like Peanut's innocent personality enough to not want to "taint" him? (or something along those lines) by dragging him into her job. Like he's a kind of refuge away from the frustrations and challenges of dealing with Celestial sized events, and she just wants him to remain the way he is. That is at least the explanation in my head for why she's always leaving Peanut alone to go deal with stuff.

Also not to harp on the whole manipulation thing, but temporary relationships are kind of the entire point of dating. Getting into a relationship that you're not sure is going to last is perfectly normal for everyday healthy individuals, so I really don't understand why the anger. And she was really up front about the whole thing too. Like her exact words are "I cannot leave unless you accept Peanut fully..." Hard to be more clear that she sees the relationship as temporary.



I think the difference in regards to your take on the temporary relationship thing comes down to motive. She wasn't doing it because she liked peanut. She did it because someone told her to. He was a means to an end with her and that's all. Hence why i was useing the duchess equivilant because, based on what we know, its the same thing. Even now we see no real evidence that if she had to make a choice of peanut and preforming X task that she would pick him. In fact all evidence seems to indicate that he would just be cast aside.

NHWestoN Wrote:
Perhaps, for now, the best understanding of these four lovers emerges from that old picture of them together in bed, watching a video, Harper's arm draped over an enraptured Maxie, Peanut holding close a contented Tarot, and Peanut and Grape leaning affectionately against each other. Part of the charms of both Peanut and Grape is they both have very big hearts.


I sort of agree with this. We see that they are consciously with the person they say, subconsciously however they are leaning into each other. I could easily be over analyzing that but it sums up how i see the group dynamic. Max is sort of a cad but i at least can say that on his end he really dose have feelings for grape. Weather or not they are "right" for each other could be debated but at least Max's motives are pure. Tarot on the other hand well... As you, me, and everyone else has already pointed out her motives and actions have forever tainted anything they may have and we have not seen any sort of repentance for it that might help redeem her in the long run. In fact we have seen the opposite where she relies on him for emotional support but gives very little back in comparison. It just seems that, well, this is just tarot.

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Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:55 pm
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Post "Watching a Video"
The Secret of N.I.M.H.

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Do Max and Grape watch it as an adventure, or as gourmands?

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Post Re: 2017/10/16 - Love Letters
Adoring Fan Wrote:
I think the difference in regards to your take on the temporary relationship thing comes down to motive. She wasn't doing it because she liked peanut. She did it because someone told her to. He was a means to an end with her and that's all. Hence why i was useing the duchess equivilant because, based on what we know, its the same thing. Even now we see no real evidence that if she had to make a choice of peanut and preforming X task that she would pick him. In fact all evidence seems to indicate that he would just be cast aside.
Well, yeah, but all of her X tasks thus far have been dealing with the fate of the world. It's a little hard to call her motives selfish (a la Duchess) when you remember their scope and scale. We've never seen her presented with a choice between Peanut and X task not involving the fate of the world, so it's not an easy judgment call.

Adoring Fan Wrote:
Tarot on the other hand well... As you, me, and everyone else has already pointed out her motives and actions have forever tainted anything they may have and we have not seen any sort of repentance for it that might help redeem her in the long run.
Not counting me apparently :P

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Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:46 pm
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Post Re: 2017/10/16 - Love Letters
Obbl Wrote:
Adoring Fan Wrote:
I think the difference in regards to your take on the temporary relationship thing comes down to motive. She wasn't doing it because she liked peanut. She did it because someone told her to. He was a means to an end with her and that's all. Hence why i was useing the duchess equivilant because, based on what we know, its the same thing. Even now we see no real evidence that if she had to make a choice of peanut and preforming X task that she would pick him. In fact all evidence seems to indicate that he would just be cast aside.
Well, yeah, but all of her X tasks thus far have been dealing with the fate of the world. It's a little hard to call her motives selfish (a la Duchess) when you remember their scope and scale. We've never seen her presented with a choice between Peanut and X task not involving the fate of the world, so it's not an easy judgment call.

Adoring Fan Wrote:
Tarot on the other hand well... As you, me, and everyone else has already pointed out her motives and actions have forever tainted anything they may have and we have not seen any sort of repentance for it that might help redeem her in the long run.
Not counting me apparently :P



This is true! And to be fair i am not totally sure if you ever have or not Obbl :P I was being general since it seemed to be where a lot of these types of arguments were centered.

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Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:53 pm
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Post Re: 2017/10/16 - Love Letters
Argent,
Thank you for posting the "Watching a Video" strip. It kinda inaugurates the pattern for the continuing "Grape and Peanut and Maxwell and Tarot" subcurrent that repeatedly surfaces as it does here. Grape - and many readers - clearly resent the hell out of Tarot's coercive cosmic match-making. Spirit Dragon's duplicitous role may very truly tainted, even poisoned, the partnering of Grape and Maxwell and Peanut with Tarot, but perhaps also made them more fluid and vibrant as we've seen repeatedly since. "Tainted love" is often painful and insecure, but it is still love. [Oh, crumbs! I just slipped into county-western lyrics !!]

Maybe Rick was channeling "Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice" for the bed-snuggling foursome, but it is one of my very favorite pictures ever. It says a lot for those you in art - social interpretation. [For example, Maxwell's totally into Grape, just enraptured, not even looking at the flick. And, of course, Peanut and Grape are side by side. Etc.] And that's enough from me.


Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:56 am
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Post Re: 2017/10/16 - Love Letters
I'm still kind of wondering what Max and grape get out of a movie about rats, mice, birds, and the occasional shrew:

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Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:27 am
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Post Re: 2017/10/16 - Love Letters
Obbl Wrote:
Adoring Fan Wrote:
Tarot on the other hand well... As you, me, and everyone else has already pointed out her motives and actions have forever tainted anything they may have and we have not seen any sort of repentance for it that might help redeem her in the long run.
Not counting me apparently :P

I think it was the sudden, abrupt, way the relationship began that's part of the problem here. Tarot, it seemed, barely needed to choose her words to convince Peanut to accept her and, frankly, she probably never would have chosen him if Spirit Dragon hadn't been influencing things. She never seems to understand there's power in words beyond magic enchantments and, all too often, she chooses the wrong words to speak. Here "I want to keep you safe" would have worked SO much better than "you're slowing us down" but, as she's never had to search for the right words before, she doesn't have them ready to write now. So she goes for the fast and abrupt because she doesn't have time to waste choosing them. She's hurting him for the crazy reason that she doesn't want him to be hurt. Because, at whatever level, she loves him.

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Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:07 am
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Post Re: 2017/10/16 - Love Letters
You make an interesting point, Welsh. Almost from the beginning, Tarot has this abrupt and imperious habit of dictating their lives to other characters. When Grape orders her to leave because she fears the weirdo dog is trying to emesh Peanut in some cosmic plot, Tarot informs her like a god passing a judgment, "You have already made your decision. Your place is with Maxwell now:" After imposing this sentence, Tarot then - in a rather domineering tone - informs Grape of the choice she is COMPELLED to make and that she ain't leaving until the purple cat makes her choice between Peanut and Maxwell. Moreover, Tarot decrees Grape's decision will be permanent, unchangeable, and irreversible, allowing for no middle ground or variations. Grape is on the verge of tracking down Maxwell to tell him it's over and then - woot, there he is - standing at the door, cold, soaking wet, abandoned, heart-breakingly wretched. Of course, Grape lets him in and..... Does Tarot/Dragon's decree thereby become forever sealed???????

I understand why Grape rescued Max (Peanut would have done the same thing had he reached the door first).

What I don't understand is why Grape then didn't throw Tarot's pom-pom poof tailed fanny out of the house and into the street ?!?!?!?

And that's enough from me.


Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:57 am
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Post Re: 2017/10/16 - Love Letters
Well, it has been a while since Peanut woke Grape up to announce "Grape, I love you!" If there are certain threads in the Gardens, one of them is that love pairings shift and relations reshape. At some level, the pairings of Grape and Max and of Peanut and Tarot are very genuine, but still tentative and somewhat frail. You might remember that right after King-Bailey's wedding, Grape tried talking g to Maxwell about marriage and Tarot caught the bride bouquet, a sign of impeding marriage. Those threads promptly vaporized. While we've seen Grape and Max get "mushy" at times, Grape clearly has some reservations about deep to take the commitment with a sweet, very flawed partner. And, of course, there are her infamous crushes - on dogs as well as large cats - and the potentI so rivalry with Res. Like Maxwell, Res is sweet and vulnerable, but he is also cultivated, imaginative, humble, and lacks the risky elements of Maxwell's darker or dumber escapades. And, perhaps less obvious, what subterranean corrosion has Dragon implanted - if any - between Grape and Maxie?

Peanut and Tarot seem to be groping about how to express love to each other. There just seems to be a wall there. He certainly does no t express his love for Tarot in the joyously explosive embraces that come easily between him and Grape. When Tarot returns from Australia, she's transparently disappointed in Peanut's rather tepid greeting, especially in contrast with the passionate love tackling her apprentice, "Saby" gets from her enraptured boy friend, Fido. In the next panel, when Karishad Fox gives her the intense hug and affection welcome she didn't get from Peanut, Tarot seems emotionally frosty yet beguiled by the Fox's sincere delight at seeing her again. {Actually, Karishad does seem to have a crush - or a fascination - with the diminutive sorceress.) Later, in other panels, we find Tarot laughing and enjoy in herself in Karishad's company, a kind of playing and flirting she doesn't seem to share with Peanut. There's just a lot of not-there there between Tarot and Peanut, let along the whole legacy of Spirit Dragon's callous and toxic manipulations.

And then, too, there mght be an even deeper force at play here. What Grape and Peanut are doing in these two courtships is sublimating their love for each other...

But this is Rick's world, and he's the Homer here. I'm just privileged to visit. And that's enough of me.


Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:01 am
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