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2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You 
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
awww they're sooo adorable, and king is sooo adorable with his cute, little, pink pawpads! <3 and he's smaller than bailey! is just so awww :3


Fri May 17, 2013 2:10 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
I like that the scenery never changes from those dark, moody blues and greys. It shows that King is still stressed, despite being hugged in such an adorable way.

I never thought I'd look at art in the same way that art critics do. Either I'm becoming more perceptive, or the world is about to end.

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Fri May 17, 2013 3:39 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Mickey the Luxray wrote:
Either I'm becoming more perceptive, or the world is about to end.
Thats what they said about 2012, pal....
...
..BACK on topic, might wanna do what he says, King and Bailey. I too find it frustrating to work with material that I don't have a whole lot of.

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Fri May 17, 2013 4:08 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
I hope rock has good health insurance, i expect him to end up like Bino at this rate. Anyway, King does need to loosen up a bit or he be old before his time!

Who here wants to see baily in a wedding dress? *raises hand*


Fri May 17, 2013 6:24 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
I'm hoping the wedding actually happens. :) Bailey, I'd be wondering who'll spare YOUR heart from the CRAZIEST surprise if the truth about King's identity ever gets out! :?

Also, aww!


Fri May 17, 2013 7:52 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Cashuea wrote:
I hope rock has good health insurance, i expect him to end up like Bino at this rate. Anyway, King does need to loosen up a bit or he be old before his time!

Who here wants to see baily in a wedding dress? *raises hand*


With all the money he has I doubt Rock needs insurance... And I thought we've already seen Bailey in a wedding dress... Oh wait, or was she just holding it in front of her? In either case it was pretty.

PhoenixAsper wrote:
I'm hoping the wedding actually happens. :) Bailey, I'd be wondering who'll spare YOUR heart from the CRAZIEST surprise if the truth about King's identity ever gets out! :?

Also, aww!


Dust out of curiosity did you read my poem on the last comic's thread? (I hope that permalink works...)

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Fri May 17, 2013 11:20 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Here comes the bride!

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Fri May 17, 2013 11:44 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
PhoenixAsper wrote:
I'm hoping the wedding actually happens. :) Bailey, I'd be wondering who'll spare YOUR heart from the CRAZIEST surprise if the truth about King's identity ever gets out! :?

Also, aww!

in that case, no one would spare King's bones from Fox.
And worst of all, Bino's honor would be actually avenged!

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Sat May 18, 2013 12:59 am
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Let's hope King doesn't change back to his human self. Well, I hope he doesn't. He's happy.

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Sat May 18, 2013 1:26 am
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
And we are as well ;)

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Sat May 18, 2013 9:21 am
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Somehow I just get this bad feeling that Pete's gonna ruin this for everyone.

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Sat May 18, 2013 9:27 am
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Everyone is happy for King and Bailey,
Except for me.
Call me an old-fashioned crazy,
But dog and man-turned-dog is not meant to be.

While I find metamorphosis intriguing,
I also watch them with terror.
Such things being real would be most appaling.
I believe leaving people transformed is an error.

Though it's been about four years
Since Joel got turned into King,
His heart for anorther dog now yearns,
That can't be a good thing. o.0

I admit King getting lifted,
For most, it would incur laughter,
Yet the mood to sadness may be shifted
When you remember he used to be taller.

King's pink pawpads were probably of Pete's invention,
And most likely meant for King to feel low.
Yet just recently, your comments give mention.
Did you never notice them until now?

Everyone here seems to want these two to have puppies,
To adopt one, you would get into fights,
But remember: They are pets, properties.
Why should they have children with no legal rights?

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Sat May 18, 2013 9:58 am
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
You have some valid concerns there, Zealot, but it may not be wise to impart 'real world' values onto the 'housepets' universe.

Here we are said to be 'superior' to animals because we can walk upright, pick up things, think, raise coherent argument and talk and pets can't.

However, in the housepets universe they can do all those things so it appears that, in the universe of this wedding, the only reason humans are superior maybe because 'humans are humans and the others aren't'.

As for the 'no legal rights'? If Four Finger Discount had to pay the fine he has responsibilities. Therefore, although they may be muted, it can be assumed that the pets DO have some rights at least, yes?

Good poem, BTW.

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Sat May 18, 2013 11:24 am
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Phff. The only pups I would want to see is Peanut's. =P Though to be fair, I rather enjoy seeing the cast just go through their everyday lives now and see if they can start to love each other as much as King and Bailey start to love each other.

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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Zealot - how do you feel about Grape and Peanut or Fido and Sabrina?

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Sat May 18, 2013 3:14 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Since my opinion about this is kinda similar to the one Silly Zealot have, I think I can participate on this conversation without being considered as a meddling.

Welsh Halfwit wrote:
You have some valid concerns there, Zealot, but it may not be wise to impart 'real world' values onto the 'housepets' universe.


Why not? Isn't the world of housepets almost exactly as the real one? Physics laws are the same, Legal laws are the same, why ethical values can't be the same? So if a human in housepets world finds out about King's relationship and his past then he surely wouldn't find it weird at all?

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Here we are said to be 'superior' to animals because we can walk upright, pick up things, think, raise coherent argument and talk and pets can't.


It's not about superiority, it's because humans and pets are not similar at all, physically and psychically. Human life seems a totally different world than pet life. Humans have a different vision of life, a more complex life, more concerns, more duties, more liberties, etc; meanwhile pets are generally too naive and can't even think in future. It was settled that in this world pets are like kids (and are treated this way in most cases), so I can't find correct that a grown man could even think into marry and start a family with someone with the mentality of a child.

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As for the 'no legal rights'? If Four Finger Discount had to pay the fine he has responsibilities. Therefore, although they may be muted, it can be assumed that the pets DO have some rights at least, yes?


With "legal rights" I think he was referring to the fact that pets don't have any power of decision about their offspring. Since this is a matter that concerns only to human people, they probably will be separated of their kids in a short period.

Argent wrote:
Zealot - how do you feel about Grape and Peanut or Fido and Sabrina?


That's different, because for what we have seen on this comic till now, dogs and cats are the most similar species of housepets world. And not just physically, but also the way they think about everything, the level of their mental maturity, even the way how they socialize. Letting aside the taboo issue, they have been mixed up together in whatever activity in almost every arc we have seen. And even though all of this, there's still people who consider these inter-species relationship are weird, so why can't be weird when an ex-human and a dog are getting married?

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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
I don't see any deep similarity between dogs and cats. They just happen to be the most common pets, in the HP! world as well as ours, and the dog and the cat we have seen most of happen to have grown up together. Real life dogs and cats have very little in common, in the ways they interact with each other or with humans, and the animals of the HP! universe mirror that. If anything, humans have more in common with dogs than... well, just about anything. Similar hunting strategies, similar social structures, everything.

And I don't see any huge difference between humans and other animals. I think the similarity you see between dogs and cats is simply a reflection of the similarity between all the bipedal mammals in the HP! universe. The biggest difference I see between humans and other animals in the HP! world is simply power, and if you give animals power, how do they act? Look at the Milton ferrets. Look at Keene in particular. He's a fuzzy little David Xanatos.

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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
I have a twofold comment on all this man-turned-dog gossip here. I believe JoeKing has two reasons for his actions: First, and of higher priority in King's mind is that he actually does love Bailey and wants to demonstrate that love. Secondly, I believe JoeKing has decided to remain as King permanently, and is now doing anything and everything he possibly can do to lock his "fate" into his current form. And when Pete does show up again, King will be able to tell him off royally on just how big a pain in the pah-toot-ee Pete has been. And if Pete threatens to change King back into a human, all King has to do is to 'forcefully' remind Pete about the non-interference policy in place. By the way, it must have dawned on King by now that if Pete hasn't had anyone over his head then Pete would still be towering over him every day.

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Sat May 18, 2013 5:39 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Gren wrote:
Since my opinion about this is kinda similar to the one Silly Zealot have, I think I can participate on this conversation without being considered as a meddling.

Welsh Halfwit wrote:
You have some valid concerns there, Zealot, but it may not be wise to impart 'real world' values onto the 'housepets' universe.


Why not? Isn't the world of housepets almost exactly as the real one? Physics laws are the same, Legal laws are the same, why ethical values can't be the same? So if a human in housepets world finds out about King's relationship and his past then he surely wouldn't find it weird at all?

Quote:
Here we are said to be 'superior' to animals because we can walk upright, pick up things, think, raise coherent argument and talk and pets can't.


It's not about superiority, it's because humans and pets are not similar at all, physically and psychically. Human life seems a totally different world than pet life. Humans have a different vision of life, a more complex life, more concerns, more duties, more liberties, etc; meanwhile pets are generally too naive and can't even think in future. It was settled that in this world pets are like kids (and are treated this way in most cases), so I can't find correct that a grown man could even think into marry and start a family with someone with the mentality of a child.

Quote:
As for the 'no legal rights'? If Four Finger Discount had to pay the fine he has responsibilities. Therefore, although they may be muted, it can be assumed that the pets DO have some rights at least, yes?


With "legal rights" I think he was referring to the fact that pets don't have any power of decision about their offspring. Since this is a matter that concerns only to human people, they probably will be separated of their kids in a short period.

Argent wrote:
Zealot - how do you feel about Grape and Peanut or Fido and Sabrina?


That's different, because for what we have seen on this comic till now, dogs and cats are the most similar species of housepets world. And not just physically, but also the way they think about everything, the level of their mental maturity, even the way how they socialize. Letting aside the taboo issue, they have been mixed up together in whatever activity in almost every arc we have seen. And even though all of this, there's still people who consider these inter-species relationship are weird, so why can't be weird when an ex-human and a dog are getting married?



Ah, yes. But Morals are based on ethics which are based on social understanding. Our understanding and sociality evolves over many years where we see animals as very different to us. I don't doubt that they have a lot of differences in the HousePets universe too but they also have a lot of similarities. 5ft tall (some of them taller/smaller), Bipedal, equipped with opposable thumbs and working voice boxes

If you wish to look at the mental maturity issue, it's believed that a 2 year old Canine is the mental equivalent of a 2 year old in our universe but, where they can learn and talk like in 'Housepets'? There maturity must be able to be higher. Much higher. For Taboos? Well they change over time, as do laws. For some the taboos change faster and, for others, slower.

This is why I say we cannot put our values onto the 'Housepets' universe. The physics laws as regards the humans may be the same but they are different as regards the pets physiology and thus, perceptions of them may well be different in the eyes of the Humans who occupy the world. And Joel was a human. King's a dog. Unless he gets changed back there's no real cross-species thing going on. Love is Love, one of the few constants around, it seems.

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Sat May 18, 2013 5:47 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
D-Rock wrote:
I guess an impending wedding would make anyone nervous.

Yea you should have seen my mom. She couldn't decide weather to threaten or bribe me into acting perfect at the wedding.
She eventually just did both. I love my warpath and solar storm grapple toys.
Those are transformers by the way.

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Sat May 18, 2013 6:16 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
To the self-claimed halfwit I give credit
Of the issue, he reached the root:
The whole subject, he presented it,
and he makes good poetry to boot.

Animals in this comic are sapient,
So it's true they have more liberties,
Yet, indeed, we humans think ourselves more trascendent,
and to other species, we offer few sympathies.

If the fluffy ones want equality,
Some power-hungry people may rise up in arms.
After all, if you suspected all foreigners of inferiority,
Would you let them live their own lives?

If this comic were to be more dramatic
A war we would soon see.
Choosing sides, for most, would be traumatic,
But my choice is clear: ME!

Argent wrote:
Zealot - how do you feel about Grape and Peanut or Fido and Sabrina?

Alas, I'm an old-fashioned bigot,
My view of the world is not tender.
I aprove of romantic love a lot,
But only same species, same age, opposite gender.

I want the world to be goody two-shoes a pleasant,
Yet I'm a hypocrite, the worst kind of abomination,
For I've foul-mouthed and indecent
On more than one ocassion.

I think those relationships should not exist any longer,
Both Grapenut or Sabrido alike.
Still, I cannot help but wonder,
What would their babies look like?

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20th century fox? Given that this is the year 2014, that fox must be dead by now. Sadface! : (

I'm telling you, hyenas ARE canines too! Many biologists died to bring us this information! Why won't you honor their deaths?! What I did to their families?!


Last edited by Silly Zealot on Sat May 18, 2013 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat May 18, 2013 6:26 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Argent wrote:
I don't see any deep similarity between dogs and cats.


Seriously? Then I recommend you to re-read the series again.


Quote:
They just happen to be the most common pets, in the HP! world as well as ours, and the dog and the cat we have seen most of happen to have grown up together.


I'm not talking just of Grape and Peanut, I'm talking about everyone. If you just pay a minimal attention you can find a lot of similarities between cats and dogs.And for god sake, if Joey was capable to pretend being a cat without anyone noticing for a long time, then they can't have too much differences, right?

Quote:
Real life dogs and cats have very little in common, in the ways they interact with each other or with humans, and the animals of the HP! universe mirror that.


And who was talking about real dogs and cats? I was only talking about HP! animals. Besides if you need I can quote a lot of comics in where they act and interact the same way.

Quote:
If anything, humans have more in common with dogs than... well, just about anything. Similar hunting strategies, similar social structures, everything.


Wha...? Are you serious? Man, I know a lot of you are furry and I haven't fully understood the whole concept, but I AM pretty sure that dogs and humans aren't as similar as you say. Hunting strategies? I didn't know that dogs were able to put traps. Social structures? I didn't know that dogs have complex social structures like political officials, religions, work hierarchy, etc. Everything? what do you mean with "everything"? I never see a dog using clothes, or doing working divisions, or choosing indoor living, etc

Quote:
And I don't see any huge difference between humans and other animals. I think the similarity you see between dogs and cats is simply a reflection of the similarity between all the bipedal mammals in the HP! universe.


As I said before, I consider most important psychical and social similarities. For what I see, dogs tend to look more similar (in this aspects) to cats than wolves. And wolves are probably the only species which resemble to humans.

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The biggest difference I see between humans and other animals in the HP! world is simply power, and if you give animals power, how do they act? Look at the Milton ferrets. Look at Keene in particular. He's a fuzzy little David Xanatos.


Are you crazy man? They act like kids! And Keene is capable of doing all of these because he have a lot of humans working for him. Remember he is following the plans of his deceased owner, and any legal matter was resolved by lawyers.

Now I have one last question: What's the problem with being human? Seriously, you are complaining like crazy old guys because you don't want to see King being human again but why you think he can't be happy being human?

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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Gren wrote:
Now I have one last question: What's the problem with being human? Seriously, you are complaining like crazy old guys because you don't want to see King being human again but why you think he can't be happy being human?


I think that at this point King could be happy as a human, but only if Bailey could be happy as a human. And that doesn't seem likely. Bailey seems to enjoy her dog-anity too much to give it up.

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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Gren wrote:
I'm not talking just of Grape and Peanut, I'm talking about everyone. If you just pay a minimal attention you can find a lot of similarities between cats and dogs.
If you look hard enough, and that's what you're looking for, but can you imagine a pair of dogs in the scene with the "dead bird"? Can you see a pack of cats greeting the cat equivalent of Fido and carrying him off? Can you see cats even creating a "Good Old Cats" club?

Quote:
And who was talking about real dogs and cats? I was only talking about HP! animals.
HP! animals are like humans, with a bit of animal layered on top for humorous effect.

Quote:
Wha...? Are you serious? Man, I know a lot of you are furry and I haven't fully understood the whole concept, but I AM pretty sure that dogs and humans aren't as similar as you say. Hunting strategies? I didn't know that dogs were able to put traps. Social structures? I didn't know that dogs have complex social structures like political officials, religions, work hierarchy, etc. Everything? what do you mean with "everything"? I never see a dog using clothes, or doing working divisions, or choosing indoor living, etc
You're not looking at a difference between dogs and humans, you're looking at a difference between nature and technology. In the wild, without the support of technology, humans and dogs are "cursive hunters". They run down prey, and have complex (for animals) social structures to allow them to maintain hunting packs that can maintain a chase over many hours. They're about the only animals in the world that hunt that way.

Quote:
Are you crazy man? They act like kids!
Most of them are kids.

Quote:
And Keene is capable of doing all of these because he have a lot of humans working for him.
That's also true of any wealthy human.

Quote:
Now I have one last question: What's the problem with being human?
Nothing. I'm not complaining about being human. I like not being dead years ago because of a relatively cheaply fixable problem.

Joel was not a happy human. Maybe he could have been happy, but he seems to have pretty systematically ruined his life. That's not because he was human, it's because he was Joel. Being King gives him a fresh start, and he seems to be doing better this time around.

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Last edited by Argent on Sat May 18, 2013 7:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.



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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Welsh Halfwit wrote:
Ah, yes. But Morals are based on ethics which are based on social understanding. Our understanding and sociality evolves over many years where we see animals as very different to us. I don't doubt that they have a lot of differences in the HousePets universe too but they also have a lot of similarities. 5ft tall (some of them taller/smaller), Bipedal, equipped with opposable thumbs and working voice boxes


I suppose you don't get my point, but I tell you the most important to me is not the physical appearance but the psychical and social aspects.

Quote:
If you wish to look at the mental maturity issue, it's believed that a 2 year old Canine is the mental equivalent of a 2 year old in our universe but, where they can learn and talk like in 'Housepets'? There maturity must be able to be higher. Much higher. For Taboos? Well they change over time, as do laws. For some the taboos change faster and, for others, slower.


I'm not talking about real life, and in HP! world is clearly noticeable the difference of maturity and intelligence between a human and a pet. Taboo? This is not about taboo, I already said it, it's because they are mentally too different. As a human he have principles to follow, and I think it's wrong to turn your back to who you really are just because he have a stupid crush given he's in a dog's body (otherwise this would not have happened).

Welsh Halfwit wrote:
And Joel was a human. King's a dog. Unless he gets changed back there's no real cross-species thing going on. Love is Love, one of the few constants around, it seems.


You still don't get it: Joel and King are the same person. The only thing that changed was his appearance but inside he's still the same. He have the same soul, the same brain, the same conscience and knowledge.
Besides this is not about "crossing-species", it's because they are different in so many levels and so many ways that is gross.

Silly Zealot wrote:
I think those relationships should not exist any longer,
Both Grapenut or Sabrido alike.
Still, I cannot help but wonder,
What would their babies look like?


I hate you, forever! :evil:
Besides I doubt they could have kids. And as I said before, I don't want to see offspring from any of the main cast until the end of the series. With humans or wolves I have no problem. Maybe I wouldn't mind if Ralph have kids since he's probably the older one of the cast.


Quote:
If you look hard enough, and that's what you're looking for, but can you imagine a pair of dogs in the scene with the "dead bird"? Can you see a pack of cats greeting the cat equivalent of Fido and carrying him off? Can you see cats even creating a "Good Old Cats" club?


Again, I wasn't talking about the taboo, and it's obvious that not everyone would like to mix with the other species, that's normal. I was just saying that their behavior was too similar. Now about your exaples: you never seen a dog hunting a bird or a mouse or a fish? Cats are not the only thing they chase. And about Fido, well, maybe none cat (except Sabrina XD) would do such a thing, but we already know they could do that for any actor of Priedlands' movies (and we were witness of this, with Grape saying "I WANT YOUR KITTENS" so...)

Quote:
You're not looking at a difference between dogs and humans, you're looking at a difference between nature and technology. In the wild, without the support of technology, humans and dogs are "cursive hunters". They run down prey, and have complex (for animals) social structures to allow them to maintain hunting packs that can maintain a chase over many hours. They're about the only animals in the world that hunt that way.


Oh right, because a human can't make traps with vines, branches, holes....
And how politics or religion or whatever other social structure have to do with technology?
You need to study a bit more of Anthropology.

Quote:
Most of them are kids.


I thought all the ferrets had the same age. But aside of the age, they still will behave this way, no matter how old they would be.

Quote:
That's also true of any wealthy human.


But you forget that a human can be a lawyer or whatever he/she want. The level of knowledge in a human is highly superior than a pet could have. Their mental faculties aren't as good as a human being has, so their access to superior studies is very restricted.

Quote:
Joel was not a happy human. Maybe he could have been happy, but he seems to have pretty systematically ruined his life. That's not because he was human, it's because he was Joel. Being King gives him a fresh start, and he seems to be doing better this time around.


And you think after all of these experiences he wouldn't be able to rebuild his life as a human if he ever be changed again?

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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Gren wrote:
Silly Zealot wrote:
I think those relationships should not exist any longer,
Both Grapenut or Sabrido alike.
Still, I cannot help but wonder,
What would their babies look like?


I hate you, forever! :evil:
Besides I doubt they could have kids. And as I said before, I don't want to see offspring from any of the main cast until the end of the series. With humans or wolves I have no problem. Maybe I wouldn't mind if Ralph have kids since he's probably the older one of the cast.

This. I don't have problems with ANY of the relationships in the strip, be it same species or not. As long as they love each other it's fine with me. This is why I don't like forced grapenut relationships. In the comic they might have feelings for each other, but the minor right now if they exist at all. We don't know if peanut still has those feelings for grape after that conversation 2 years or so ago. Grape had VERY minor feels for peanut in a romantic way, if she actually had any. In the comic they're in love with other people, so they can't be together and still have this comic be pg, or without turning them into jerks. In the FANFICS however it is okay for them to love each other because that universe isn't exactly like the comic. A lot of things will be different. Some events might not have happened which would cause completely new and different things to take they're place. So it would be possible for grape and peanut to be a couple even get married as Valerie's fanfic expertly pulled off. But this is going off topic. I should be talking about fido and Sabrina. THEY are in love, and it has been shown several times that they will take a lot of risks to stay together. It shouldn't matter, ether in the comic or on the forum, if they're the same species as long as they love each other. If they were forced to separate it would be VERY long until they felt better, if they got better at all. So if you like them at all just let them stay together.


Also I'm not okay with waiting for the comic to end to see the characters to have babies because I don't want the comic to end. EVER. WE NEED THOSE CORGSKIE PUPPIES PEOPLE. WE NEED THEM NOW.

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Sat May 18, 2013 7:59 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Gren wrote:
You still don't get it: Joel and King are the same person. The only thing that changed was his appearance but inside he's still the same. He have the same soul, the same brain, the same conscience and knowledge.
Besides this is not about "crossing-species", it's because they are different in so many levels and so many ways that is gross.

I hate you, forever! :evil:
Besides I doubt they could have kids. And as I said before, I don't want to see offspring from any of the main cast until the end of the series. With humans or wolves I have no problem. Maybe I wouldn't mind if Ralph have kids since he's probably the older one of the cast.


Sadly, in this, we disagree.
Joel is no longer the one he used to be,
And how could he?
Four years of being a dog take it's toll on the mind, you see?

Only a fascist or a sith deals in absolutes,
That much is true,
But inter-species romance arises my disputes,
And I oppose them through and through.

Still, my mind wanders
To places it should not visit.
To know how a half-cat, half-dog would look like it longers,
But it's true curiosity killed the Zealot, isn't it?

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Sat May 18, 2013 8:03 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
You know people, since all this has come up, it has crossed my mind once or twice that Rick had written himself into a Kobayashi Maru here:

Either he returns whence he came, potentially ending up in jail again, this time for longer, and Fox and Bailey now live with broken hearts (do NOT try and sell me on them being alright after THAT),

OR

He stays as is, and all of the above comments are in play.

Having said that, Rick said a while back that we were going to LOVE this arc (I believe this to be part of the multi-arc idea he got a year ago, possibly part 2 and 3 of it combined). And I actually think I could trust to that. :)


Sat May 18, 2013 8:10 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Gren wrote:
Quote:
You're not looking at a difference between dogs and humans, you're looking at a difference between nature and technology. In the wild, without the support of technology, humans and dogs are "cursive hunters". They run down prey, and have complex (for animals) social structures to allow them to maintain hunting packs that can maintain a chase over many hours. They're about the only animals in the world that hunt that way.


Oh right, because a human can't make traps with vines, branches, holes....
That's technology. Give dogs thumbs and a bipedal stance, and they can play Nintendo with the best of us.

Quote:
Quote:
Most of them are kids.


I thought all the ferrets had the same age.
OK, let's try that again. Most of the animals are kids.

Though I got the impression that Simon was younger than most.

Quote:
But aside of the age, they still will behave this way, no matter how old they would be.
Why do you say that? Fido definitely doesn't act like the younger dogs. And Bailey acts more mature than King at times, despite her restricted upbringing.

Quote:
But you forget that a human can be a lawyer or whatever he/she want.
How many animals are given a chance to be anything they want? Well, there's Itsuki, and Keene. Those are about the only ones.

Quote:
Their mental faculties aren't as good as a human being has, so their access to superior studies is very restricted.
Peanut reads faster than I do.

Quote:
Quote:
Joel was not a happy human. Maybe he could have been happy, but he seems to have pretty systematically ruined his life. That's not because he was human, it's because he was Joel. Being King gives him a fresh start, and he seems to be doing better this time around.


And you think after all of these experiences he wouldn't be able to rebuild his life as a human if he ever be changed again?
As a wanted criminal? No.

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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Silly Zealot wrote:
Sadly, in this, we disagree.
Joel is no longer the one he used to be,
And how could he?
Four years of being a dog take it's toll on the mind, you see?


He's still the same, he just shrug about some things because, as he said, he want to enjoy his current life the best as possible (but that doesn't mean he isn't able to think the same way he did it before, he just stopped being paranoid). After so many years and so many arcs, he's still thinking and doing human things as you can see in " The unbearable lightness of being a dog" which by the way was the reason of his quarrel with Bailey.

PhoenixAsper wrote:
Either he returns whence he came, potentially ending up in jail again, this time for longer, and Fox and Bailey now live with broken hearts (do NOT try and sell me on them being alright after THAT),


So you're saying that his former past will never see the light again and Fox and Bailey will never know about this? That sucks. And if this subject is revealed to them, then his life will sucks again, because if they can forgive him as a dog, why they couldn't forgive him as a human?


Argent wrote:
That's technology. Give dogs thumbs and a bipedal stance, and they can play Nintendo with the best of us.


Right, technology. So since dogs are able to make holes then they sure know the concept of technology as well. SUUUURE.
Now I'm seriously wonder if you're talking seriously, because then I want you to explain me how a dog can even have a chance facing a human in something stupid like a videogame if they haven't a brain like ours to analyze and solve puzzles or at least to understand what they are seeing in the screen. :?

Quote:
Why do you say that? Fido definitely doesn't act like the younger dogs. And Bailey acts more mature than King at times, despite her restricted upbringing.


Fido and Bailey behaved in a childish way a lot of times. Even characters like Ralph, Spo, Duchess, Tarot or Sabrina did the same.

Quote:
Well, there's Itsuki, and Keene. Those are about the only ones.


Itsuki is a prodigious between animals, Keene not. Besides Itsuki hadn't a chance in Japan and that's why he went to USA, so this doesn't speak well of him. Despite being Japanese he's not a match for a Japanese human.

Quote:
Peanut reads faster than I do.


That's an ability that a lot of people can develop with the mere act of reading. Of course Peanut became a really fast reader after reading so much. However, with all the amount of books he have read, he should be an Einstein, a living encyclopedia, but he's still the same silly mutt we all know.

Quote:
As a wanted criminal? No.


Right, because the rewards promised to him by the Cosmic Nerds can't be related with Joel having a normal human life with his prison sentence removed.

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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
I don't know how many times I've said this, but I really don't get why people are expecting King to "go back."

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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Read this words, read them well,
I have some things to tell.
About the resent discussions that here befell,
Look carefully, this poem is so swell!

I want to put Argent and Gren face to face
Make them punch each other right in the spleen.
Angry comments? I prefer a change of pace,
Let the physical violence begin!

Joel's essence is still unchanged
And his memory and personality retained,
But since the, of his old life he repented,
And his new friends his altered.

Also, dog hormones might make his sanity precarious,
As Neische said: "The mind is a plaything of the body."
But this rymhes are getting too serious,
So I'll post the picture of a doggy.

Image

Even I am not the same
As I was four years ago,
Since then a new, evil Zealot came,
And the older one..... He had to go!

I think the comic's pets
Have the same capacity as any human mind,
But potential alone nothing gets,
That, I know first hand.

Their desire seldom seems to be present
To erect buildings, at least.
They lack the ambition to become trascendent,
THAT'S what separates man from beast!

Despite being a comic for children,
It is analyzed and documented.
I must say, my good men,
Rick has no idea what his comic started!

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20th century fox? Given that this is the year 2014, that fox must be dead by now. Sadface! : (

I'm telling you, hyenas ARE canines too! Many biologists died to bring us this information! Why won't you honor their deaths?! What I did to their families?!


Last edited by Silly Zealot on Sun May 19, 2013 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat May 18, 2013 10:26 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Silly Zealot wrote:
I want to put Argent and Gren face to face
Make them punch each other right in the spleen.
Angry comments? I prefer a change of pace,
Let the physical violence begin!
No.
This debate has been fairly amiable thus far. I would like it to continue as such.

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Sat May 18, 2013 10:38 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Sleet wrote:
I don't know how many times I've said this, but I really don't get why people are expecting King to "go back."


I'm not expecting him to become human again, but I'm really sick of people who think his only way to be happy is this and no other. What's the problem if he go back to be Joel again? What's the problem if he don't end up with Bailey? Why he can't be happy being human or not getting married now? There's no need to be so blind.

Silly Zealot wrote:
I want to put Argent and Gren face to face
Make them punch each other right in the spleen.
Angry comments? I prefer a change of pace,
Let the physical violence begin!


You know, we live in the same country and more likely in the same city, so I could go to your place and kick your butt if I want to. :twisted:
And seriously people, stop with all these poems, it's getting on my nerves!

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Sat May 18, 2013 10:52 pm
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
So, aside from Itsuki, who is capable of passing college with flying colors, no animals have mental faculties comparable to that of humans'. Nope. No-siree. ;) (and don't pull the whole Japanese are smarter than everyone else thing. The entrance exams for the top universities in Japan are brutal, and only the smartest of the smarts make it in after years of studying specifically to pass the exams usually foregoing a lot of childhood free time. However, the work place in Japan revolves around getting into the best universities, so it's a rather difficult situation to be in.)

Plus, we haven't really been shown any animals (again aside from Itsuki) who have been give the opportunity for higher learning. We don't know if they could attain the level of humans if given the chance. Just as an example from the opposite direction, a child raised with little to no human contact (eg in the wild, or shut in a room) after a certain age (as far as we've seen) may never be able to reach the same level of understanding that you and I do. Environment can limit the mental and psychological capabilities of anyone.
Furthermore, the adult wolves clearly act like adults (albeit adults with less understanding of human culture and society). There's a certain childishness about them, but a lot of it seems to come from an excitement and carefree feeling with their new environment.

Besides saying someone who is an adult can't be happily married to someone who is childishly optimistic but otherwise a well-adjusted individual in society is a bit off. Especially when Bailey shows a capability for dealing with emotions (and other issues in the psychological area) that surpasses most people I see on a day to day basis. (Most of my sister's problems relate to other people who just have no clue how to handle emotions, she says she feels like a drama magnet at times).

If it really just comes down to "He's a human, and she's a dog, and that makes me squick", that's fine. Just don't paint it up to be this big thing that should be clear to everyone if they could just see it from your side.
Some people don't like it. Some people don't mind it. A squick has a lot of emotion attached to it, so it can't be "defeated" by logic. Likewise, people who don't squick over something are not going to be "shown the light" via logic.

For me, King is a dog now. Regardless of his past, he has accepted being a dog. If he is OK with it, I am. That doesn't mean anyone else has to.
As for the mental faculties of the pets, I like what Argent said. The pets we see are children. If they act like children, it's not necessarily because pets are not capable of maturing beyond the level of children. They may act like children because they are children. It seems that animals in general have a tendency toward being optimistic about things. As noted by Sasha and Bailey here they don't understand wanting more out of life than you have if what you have is already good. Is this necessarily a childish view of things? Perhaps. Perhaps it's naive. But perhaps it is just a simple view of things. A natural contentment. I'm pretty sure there are many human adults with that view of the world.
Humans in this world are shown as being driven because they always want something better than what they have. They are always certain that things could be even more than they are if they kept trying. They look at any fault in life and see if they can overcome it. This confuses the animals who look at life as being what it is. Even if it's not great, that's just how things go. As long as they have the basic necessities covered, they don't see why they should be discontent. It's like pets strive for a good life, but humans strive for a better life.
If one has what one considers to be a good life and is not concerned with improving it, a difference in behavior can be expected.

What is childish behavior and what is adult behavior? Certainly an adult is more learned. But even a young child can behave in an adult manner if thrust into the right (or wrong) circumstances.
Is it the seriousness with which adults look at situations? Perhaps, though I know many adults who are never serious, and I am personally one who enjoys being rather un-serious when I can. This perhaps is an adult acting childishly, which therefore does not preclude a pet with adult human mental faculties from behaving childishly. King himself has a much more laid-back attitude than he did three years ago.

All this being said, I think the debate is not one which can be definitively concluded. As I mentioned, those who squick at this human-dog pairing will likely always have this feeling. Those who are not squicked are very unlikely to ever feel otherwise. It really comes down to certain feelings of moral issues and other emotions in the lower conscious. There's a bit of logic to it in our world, but it doesn't translate well into this world. At least not for some people.
As Gren mentioned, this is not the real world. It is Housepets. While there are many parallels here, there are also many differences. People take these differences to heart in varying degrees, and that affects how they view things. Please bear in mind that while different species couple may be something you view as totally different in this universe compared to our own, others may think of them in the same or similar light to how they view them in our universe, others may view them similarly to how they view some other relationship in our universe. All of these may cause a difference in view on this issue and are not easily changed. Trying to change them will only be met with frustration.

Gren wrote:
I'm not expecting him to become human again, but I'm really sick of people who think his only way to be happy is this and no other. What's the problem if he go back to be Joel again? What's the problem if he don't end up with Bailey? Why he can't be happy being human or not getting married now? There's no need to be so blind.
Returning to being human would require that he be returned either to a life that is going rather poorly or as someone other than Joel Zachariah Robinson, wanted criminal. Perhaps he would be happy as a human, but he is certainly happy here as a dog. Maybe it's not so much that people refuse to think of any solution other than this, but that they like the situation the way it is and see no reason to change it.

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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Okay, I don't want to make this conversation longer, besides I think you have reason in most of what you had said. People have different point of views, and had seen the comic with different eyes so that makes very complicated to make everyone reach an accordance.
I honestly don't like to take any of this comic with much seriousness, because this always was a silly comic and every time was a happy ending. But sometimes it's really sickening to see people complaining and being paranoid about everything, they close themselves in a shell and refuse to see or hear any possible way other than what they want. I am an understandable person and I know they like how things are going so far, but they have to know that the one who have the last word is the author. I mean, we have seen this a lot of times, people was expecting something and then Rick decided to come with an unexpected move. Some people liked it and some not. You have to understand that one of the points of doing a story is being unpredictable, that's the fun of it. So with this being said, I'm still not able to understand why some people have to act so blindly.
At the end, all of this is summed up in what we like or not and all the ethic values or RL matters ends being irrelevant. Besides, as someone said before, it's impossible for the author be able to please everyone, so he have no choice but to follow what he consider it's better. Therefore, all the complaints and tantrums are meaningless.

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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
I am willing to accept this idea of people having different points of view if you are, good Gren. :) <Offers hand to shake>

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Sun May 19, 2013 12:40 am
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Wow, this thread got a lot weirder than normal really fast.

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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
Gren wrote:
Argent wrote:
That's technology. Give dogs thumbs and a bipedal stance, and they can play Nintendo with the best of us.


Right, technology. So since dogs are able to make holes then they sure know the concept of technology as well.
Dogs in this world, no. Dogs in this world don't have technology, and humans who also have little technology hunt very much like dogs. There are very few animals that run down their food. Humans, dogs, certain dolphins, and maybe hyenas. I don't know that much about hyenas, just that they have evolved into a very doglike form despite not being related to dogs at all.

And the basic social structures that humans and dogs form, in the absence of high technology and civilization, are not that different. One theory is that the reason that dogs were the first animals to be domesticated was this similarity, that brought dogs and humans into extended contact and helped them work so well together.

Quote:
I want you to explain me how a dog can even have a chance facing a human in something stupid like a videogame if they haven't a brain like ours to analyze and solve puzzles or at least to understand what they are seeing in the screen. :?
The dogs in HP! world, the ones with thumbs and a bipedal stance, do have brains like humans. That's the point.

Quote:
Quote:
Why do you say that? Fido definitely doesn't act like the younger dogs. And Bailey acts more mature than King at times, despite her restricted upbringing.


Fido and Bailey behaved in a childish way a lot of times.
So does Earl Sandwich. It drives Jill crazy.

Quote:
Itsuki is a prodigious between animals, Keene not.
I didn't get the impression that he was that unusual for a Japanese animal. Keene, however, is quite unusual, even among his fellow ferrets. And not all his schemes are based on Mr. Milton's wishes, that just seems to be his nature.

Quote:
Besides Itsuki hadn't a chance in Japan and that's why he went to USA, so this doesn't speak well of him. Despite being Japanese he's not a match for a Japanese human.
Actually, he's acting like a lot of Japanes humans do in this world. That's part of the humor in Itsuki's character.

Quote:
Quote:
Peanut reads faster than I do.


That's an ability that a lot of people can develop with the mere act of reading. Of course Peanut became a really fast reader after reading so much.
think you have cause and effect reversed.

Quote:
However, with all the amount of books he have read, he should be an Einstein
By that logic, so should I. By your logic, I should be able to read a dozen books in a weekend. I read a *lot*, and I'm considered a fast reader.

The point is, there's no evidence that he's got any mental deficit compared to a human. On the contrary, he's smarter than many.

Quote:
Quote:
As a wanted criminal? No.


Right, because the rewards promised to him by the Cosmic Nerds can't be related with Joel having a normal human life with his prison sentence removed.
Could be, but near as I can tell from the discussion here most of the panic about King turning back into Joel is the possibility of Pete changing him back. Rick's already taunted us with that possibility.

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Sun May 19, 2013 6:38 am
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Post Re: 2013/05/17 - The Reason Is You
...what just happened to this thread?

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