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Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven 
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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
Sinder wrote:
1. Pete

2. Spirit Dragon

3. Great Kitsune

4. Teoxihuitl?

5. "Spookmaster"?
There's that guy who always eats Doritos and gets cheese dust on everything.

He's a human.

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Fri May 18, 2012 12:24 am
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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
Dissension wrote:
Could it be 'cause they were bored and had nothing better to do?


Also I'm holding out some kind of hope that there is a good reason for them to be playing so maybe I will stop feeling like the 3 (now possibly 5) of them deserve to be punched repeatedly in the face for basically forcing an entire world (or at least Babylon Gardens anyway) to live action role play because they got bored one day.

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Last edited by IceKitsune on Fri May 18, 2012 1:08 am, edited 2 times in total.



Fri May 18, 2012 12:24 am
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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
I just want Bahamut to take off that visor. You can see light shining out of it! :o

Is it possible that there wil be an appearance by two, maybe three, new characters?


Fri May 18, 2012 12:41 am
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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
According to Pete, there should be four more with him.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
and Dragon is almost definitely one of them. that leaves 3, 2 if Kitsune is also one of them.

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Fri May 18, 2012 12:51 am
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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
my ideas so far?

- Baham is not involved in their game. For now, maybe in future he will to control the game as the gm, but kitsune will have to take active part to it

- those four persons more... it's not necessary they really exists actually. maybe is only a way to say "hey there is someone even worst than me and He's free to ho right now" or something. not sure though

- their game imo is a classic standard way to control a universe "dressed" like d&d. that's why it's so normal to Baham but Pete is afraid to seem a dork.

we'll see.

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Last edited by _Stu_ on Fri May 18, 2012 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri May 18, 2012 2:16 am
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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
So what do you guys think the outcome of this trial will be? I'm guessing the most likely outcome is that everyone in The U&U game will be ordered to leave King alone.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
aww, but where's the fun in that. Despite the fact that Kitsune already told Pete to leave him alone and the others never messed with him to begin with, so not much will change.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
RandomGeekNamedBrent wrote:
aww, but where's the fun in that. Despite the fact that Kitsune already told Pete to leave him alone and the others never messed with him to begin with, so not much will change.


Kitsune never told Pete to leave King alone. In fact the only one he told to leave King alone was Dragon not Pete, Pete could still have tried to get him as an Avatar he just went about it by trying to steal his fate; likely because he knew that going up to King would have been completely pointless.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
IceKitsune wrote:
RandomGeekNamedBrent wrote:
aww, but where's the fun in that. Despite the fact that Kitsune already told Pete to leave him alone and the others never messed with him to begin with, so not much will change.


Kitsune never told Pete to leave King alone. In fact the only one he told to leave King alone was Dragon not Pete, Pete could still have tried to get him as an Avatar he just went about it by trying to steal his fate; likely because he knew that going up to King would have been completely pointless.

well, he did say here
Kitsune wrote:
You're forbidden from doing anything more to King or entering the arena until you have a full avatar

I read this as essentially cutting Pete from even talking to King without a full avatar, meaning he couldn't get King as his avatar unless he could get him to agree without actually interacting with him directly. Essentially, he said to leave King alone, but Pete found a loophole. So essentially, ordering them to leave King alone, unless the whole game is forced to move from Babylon Gardens, would not be that different from what's going on now.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
RandomGeekNamedBrent wrote:
IceKitsune wrote:
RandomGeekNamedBrent wrote:
aww, but where's the fun in that. Despite the fact that Kitsune already told Pete to leave him alone and the others never messed with him to begin with, so not much will change.


Kitsune never told Pete to leave King alone. In fact the only one he told to leave King alone was Dragon not Pete, Pete could still have tried to get him as an Avatar he just went about it by trying to steal his fate; likely because he knew that going up to King would have been completely pointless.

well, he did say here
Kitsune wrote:
You're forbidden from doing anything more to King or entering the arena until you have a full avatar

I read this as essentially cutting Pete from even talking to King without a full avatar, meaning he couldn't get King as his avatar unless he could get him to agree without actually interacting with him directly. Essentially, he said to leave King alone, but Pete found a loophole. So essentially, ordering them to leave King alone, unless the whole game is forced to move from Babylon Gardens, would not be that different from what's going on now.


Well "entering the arena" was never defined so he could have still talked to him though dreams and stuff assuming it only means Pete can't physically be in BG. (also it would have to mean that because if he couldn't talk to anyone else he can't ever get an Avatar.) And "doing anything more" more likely then not only means no changing him further, like from a Dog to a Cat.

Edit: also since Kitsune had to say not to change him that means Pete can still in fact bother King anyway. So again the only one that has to stay away is Dragon.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
I took "doing anything more" as including talking to him. That's how I interpreted it, but I could be wrong.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
Plus there is also the fact that with that ruling it would mean that Pete would be allowed back in BG (since King would be completely off the table for The U&U Game) and he can more easily pick an Avatar.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
IceKitsune wrote:
So what do you guys think the outcome of this trial will be? I'm guessing the most likely outcome is that everyone in The U&U game will be ordered to leave King alone.

This assumes King has any significance beyond a toy Pete wants to play with; that he is, in fact, important to a bunch of high-order beings. The general attitude of the court so far is that low-order beings ("mortals") can be used as desired, provided they are not prevented from passing into the next life.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
Dissension wrote:
IceKitsune wrote:
So what do you guys think the outcome of this trial will be? I'm guessing the most likely outcome is that everyone in The U&U game will be ordered to leave King alone.

This assumes King has any significance beyond a toy Pete wants to play with; that he is, in fact, important to a bunch of high-order beings. The general attitude of the court so far is that low-order beings ("mortals") can be used as desired, provided they are not prevented from passing into the next life.


Well considering that Pete turned him into a Dog, I would consider that not "Unmolested" (since he now has to go to a different Heaven then originally intended.) therefore making him clearly guilty of that (plus the B&E) in the least. And since he did that and stole his Fate, telling everyone involved to stay away from him in order to not mess King up more (and to stop causing problems for Heaven which both things did) seems appropriate.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
Why he is on trial, I guess...

Pete stole it from pet heaven, did he not? That Heaven was fully occupied by animals from what I saw. Perhaps Pete was stealing it from there to put it in the Human Heaven, as a way to reverse what he had done or something? it is a possibility.... :?

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
copper wrote:
Why he is on trial, I guess...

Pete stole it from pet heaven, did he not? That Heaven was fully occupied by animals from what I saw. Perhaps Pete was stealing it from there to put it in the Human Heaven, as a way to reverse what he had done or something? it is a possibility.... :?


Kitsune said that Pete could reverse it with Magic, him stealing the fate wouldn't have reversed anything and two there is more to a persons soul then just his or her fate as we've seen so he would have needed to steal quite a few orbs. Plus if he was needed to return it to human heaven to reverse the spell why not just ask, it would have made everything a million times simpler on him.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
Does the comic continue to fast-forward past the expo torrents with double strips?

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
a book of fate is just like a Death Note

only different

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
They want to determine if his actions aren't malicious. :|

Let's see: he irrevocably altered a man's life (perhaps erasing or ruining his existence as a man entirely), treated him like most people would treat their pets outside BG (to the point of extreme humiliation), almost always spoke in a condescending, arrogant manner to the "lesser being" (with a mean-spirited grin on his face oftentimes), and then stole HIS fate specifically (even if it WASN'T to threaten him).

Yeah, good luck proving that's NOT malicious in SOME way. :roll:


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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
PhoenixAsper wrote:
Yeah, good luck proving that's NOT malicious in SOME way. :roll:


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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
PhoenixAsper wrote:
They want to determine if his actions aren't malicious. :|

Let's see: he irrevocably altered a man's life (perhaps erasing or ruining his existence as a man entirely), treated him like most people would treat their pets outside BG (to the point of extreme humiliation), almost always spoke in a condescending, arrogant manner to the "lesser being" (with a mean-spirited grin on his face oftentimes), and then stole HIS fate specifically (even if it WASN'T to threaten him).

Yeah, good luck proving that's NOT malicious in SOME way. :roll:


You'll need to adjust your expectations of what the court is looking for. They aren't (at least to a legal degree) interested in personal and highly fleeting feelings of individual mortals. Bahamut said that celestials are allowed to do as they see fit on mortal worlds.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
rickgriffin wrote:
PhoenixAsper wrote:
They want to determine if his actions aren't malicious. :|

Let's see: he irrevocably altered a man's life (perhaps erasing or ruining his existence as a man entirely), treated him like most people would treat their pets outside BG (to the point of extreme humiliation), almost always spoke in a condescending, arrogant manner to the "lesser being" (with a mean-spirited grin on his face oftentimes), and then stole HIS fate specifically (even if it WASN'T to threaten him).

Yeah, good luck proving that's NOT malicious in SOME way. :roll:


You'll need to adjust your expectations of what the court is looking for. They aren't (at least to a legal degree) interested in personal feelings of individual mortals. Bahamut said that celestials are allowed to do as they see fit on mortal worlds.


That's................................. kind of upsetting and disturbing. :( :? (For clarification, I meant the "do-as-see-fit" part, mostly.)


Last edited by PhoenixAsper on Sun May 20, 2012 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
Well unless we are changing the term unmolested to mean something else here they clearly have him on that considering Joel now has to go to a different heaven then intended (and an easier one at that). I mean you can argue its to some kind of lesser degree offense but I really don't see how it doesn't break that law.

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Last edited by IceKitsune on Sun May 20, 2012 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
IceKitsune wrote:
Well unless we are changing the term unmolested to mean something else here they clearly have him on that considering Joel now has to go to a different heaven then intended (and an easier one at that).


It was meant in context of what Bahamut was talking about--King's soul. Not his body.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
rickgriffin wrote:
IceKitsune wrote:
Well unless we are changing the term unmolested to mean something else here they clearly have him on that considering Joel now has to go to a different heaven then intended (and an easier one at that).


It was meant in context of what Bahamut was talking about--King's soul. Not his body.


Ok then he gets off on this case, unless B&E is also a charge which there is no way he could possibly get away with that. (out side of time served)

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
PhoenixAsper wrote:
rickgriffin wrote:
You'll need to adjust your expectations of what the court is looking for. They aren't (at least to a legal degree) interested in personal feelings of individual mortals. Bahamut said that celestials are allowed to do as they see fit on mortal worlds.


That's................................. kind of upsetting and disturbing. :( :? (For clarification, I meant the "do-as-see-fit" part, mostly.)


Actually ruining a mortal world is kind of overkill and unnecessary, but from heaven's perspective, mortals who die are simply sent to judgement and then the next world, so nothing but matter is lost in the long run, and there's infinite amounts of that. As long as that process is not interfered with, along with it remaining in the mortal's agency to ultimately decide their morality for themselves, they can pretty much do as they like. Since King hardly has it the worst of anyone in the world (not by a LONG shot), coercion is not going to be a factor.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
rickgriffin wrote:
PhoenixAsper wrote:
rickgriffin wrote:
You'll need to adjust your expectations of what the court is looking for. They aren't (at least to a legal degree) interested in personal feelings of individual mortals. Bahamut said that celestials are allowed to do as they see fit on mortal worlds.


That's................................. kind of upsetting and disturbing. :( :? (For clarification, I meant the "do-as-see-fit" part, mostly.)


Actually ruining a mortal world is kind of overkill and unnecessary, but from heaven's perspective, mortals who die are simply sent to judgement and then the next world, so nothing but matter is lost in the long run, and there's infinite amounts of that. As long as that process is not interfered with, along with it remaining in the mortal's agency to ultimately decide their morality for themselves, they can pretty much do as they like. Since King hardly has it the worst of anyone in the world (not by a LONG shot), coercion is not going to be a factor.


I don't understand. <sigh> And please remember, and I will make no excuses here: I am NOT being impartial. I am speaking from the perspective of someone who is really anxious to see how this turns out for King, and whether I will personally be okay with it in the end.

rickgriffin wrote:
It was meant in context of what Bahamut was talking about--King's soul. Not his body.


I thought it was Joel's. :?

Which brings me back to what I said earlier: Pete practically ERASED a human being, Joel, and as we knew him, he could only be a memory in King's head. As far as I'm concerned, most of the time, Joel does not exist. In the past, that's the sole way I've been able to keep up on this without getting more upset. :?

This whole thing can be an existential nightmare at times. :oops:


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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
PhoenixAsper wrote:
Which brings me back to what I said earlier: Pete practically ERASED a human being, Joel, and as we knew him, he could only be a memory in King's head. As far as I'm concerned, most of the time, Joel does not exist. In the past, that's the sole way I've been able to keep up on this without getting more upset. :?

This whole thing can be an existential nightmare at times. :oops:

Um, nobody is exactly the person who they used to be in the past. Some people want to be firemen and grow up to be corporate cogs. Some people are drafted into the army and develop PTSD. Some people are turned into corgis.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
rickgriffin wrote:
PhoenixAsper wrote:
Which brings me back to what I said earlier: Pete practically ERASED a human being, Joel, and as we knew him, he could only be a memory in King's head. As far as I'm concerned, most of the time, Joel does not exist. In the past, that's the sole way I've been able to keep up on this without getting more upset. :?

This whole thing can be an existential nightmare at times. :oops:

Um, nobody is exactly the person who they used to be in the past. Some people want to be firemen and grow up to be corporate cogs. Some people are drafted into the army and develop PTSD. Some people are turned into corgis.


Hardly comparable, wouldn't you say? :| Ergh, I give up! :? :oops:


Last edited by PhoenixAsper on Sun May 20, 2012 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
Considering it was just a physical transformation, the is no existential question at all. King is just a name. Just like Joel is a name. They both refer to the same person, the same soul. Joel has not been replaced. His body has had extensive plastic surgery, but he is still the same guy.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
So since the end of the trial has been basically spoiled I wonder if anything other then Info Dumping will happen in this arc perhaps Pete will finally get an Avatar or something.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
Obbl wrote:
Considering it was just a physical transformation, the is no existential question at all. King is just a name. Just like Joel is a name. They both refer to the same person, the same soul. Joel has not been replaced. His body has had extensive plastic surgery, but he is still the same guy.


Not for me. :( Sorry.


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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
IceKitsune wrote:
So since the end of the trial has been basically spoiled I wonder if anything other then Info Dumping will happen in this arc perhaps Pete will finally get an Avatar or something.


I didn't spoil the ending. I told you what was happening so you could keep up.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
AND this could tie into shenanigans that Keene may be about to pull on earth.


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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
PhoenixAsper wrote:
Obbl wrote:
Considering it was just a physical transformation, the is no existential question at all. King is just a name. Just like Joel is a name. They both refer to the same person, the same soul. Joel has not been replaced. His body has had extensive plastic surgery, but he is still the same guy.


Not for me. :( Sorry.

Considering this is a fact, I am confused where we have a difference of opinion that causes you to respond in such a manor. :|
Edit: Ah! Thanks for clearing that up. =)

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
rickgriffin wrote:
Some people are turned into corgis.

that happened to me once

that weekend sucked

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
Ok so I would assume that the woodland animals are Pete’s “followers” I wonder who Dragons are. And the point of the game is to fight Arch Demons (or at least one of the points are) I wonder what the “goals” where that they had. I hope we learn how Peanut and Grape play into this in the next strip.

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
well I guessed their ability to see all of time at once correctly. So far none of this is really conflicting with my fan fic yet. But I'm scared that it'll happen soon.

Is that Joan of Arc?

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Post Re: Arc #55: The Trial in Heaven
RandomGeekNamedBrent wrote:

Is that Joan of Arc?


I thought that as well, but I kind of doubt it.

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